The deflated grading is just exhausting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience (3 kids) I think what happens in part is that these schools grade to the smartest kid in the room and then curve down accordingly. For instance, there will be one kid (or a handful) in sophomore English who can write an essay worthy of a senior seminar class in a college English class. So there are your As. And the grades go down from that. The kids who are just "very good writers" and turn in "very good for a sophomore in high school" level work get a B.

It's the same in math. My kid is currently in math class beyond calculus. She has a perfect math SAT score. She's good at math but this class is HARD. The average on tests is about a 75. But there is always one kid who manages to get a 98. So there goes any curve or corrections. There is your A. And everyone goes down from there.

I don't know what other schools or districts do in these cases when you have a few extreme outliers. The kids at these top privates are almost all very strong students and were admitted to the private (most of them) because they were at the top at their sending schools. But in each subject there tend to be few kids who is outlandishly gifted. And then they scoop up the 2 As in that class.

That’s what they will encounter in life. Your daughter has a perfect SAT math score but that’s not difficult math. Now she’s in a difficult math class.

If there’s only one kid who can completely and accurately complete the math test then there is only one A. Why would someone who couldn’t finish the test accurately get an A?

There’s a hypocrisy here. A lot of sneers about public schools handing out “A”s for students who get 70% on tests and then complaining when the private school doesn’t do the same.

The extremely smart kids in the real 99th percentile will get all As. And down the line it goes. If there are a few students who accomplish mastering the class that means it can be done and students not doing as well shouldn’t minimize their achievement by whining No Fair!

That's really not how grading works. In college, the scores set the curve, but no college says you have to get the highest score in order to get an A...that simply helps increase the median/mean score and possibly drives a wider standard deviation.

At my kid's Top3 college there is one class where the mean is like a 48 out of 100. If you get a 48, that is an A-. In that one class, everyone was pretty well clustered between a 35 - 60...with the exception of one kid at a 98 (and unfortunately, many kids scoring like between 4 to 10). So, a 98 would be an A+++ if that could be awarded, but a 35 was a B/B-, and basically, a 50 or higher was an A.

That is how curved grading works. If the schools folks are complaining about graded this way...doubt it would be a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience (3 kids) I think what happens in part is that these schools grade to the smartest kid in the room and then curve down accordingly. For instance, there will be one kid (or a handful) in sophomore English who can write an essay worthy of a senior seminar class in a college English class. So there are your As. And the grades go down from that. The kids who are just "very good writers" and turn in "very good for a sophomore in high school" level work get a B.

It's the same in math. My kid is currently in math class beyond calculus. She has a perfect math SAT score. She's good at math but this class is HARD. The average on tests is about a 75. But there is always one kid who manages to get a 98. So there goes any curve or corrections. There is your A. And everyone goes down from there.

I don't know what other schools or districts do in these cases when you have a few extreme outliers. The kids at these top privates are almost all very strong students and were admitted to the private (most of them) because they were at the top at their sending schools. But in each subject there tend to be few kids who is outlandishly gifted. And then they scoop up the 2 As in that class.

That’s what they will encounter in life. Your daughter has a perfect SAT math score but that’s not difficult math. Now she’s in a difficult math class.

If there’s only one kid who can completely and accurately complete the math test then there is only one A. Why would someone who couldn’t finish the test accurately get an A?

There’s a hypocrisy here. A lot of sneers about public schools handing out “A”s for students who get 70% on tests and then complaining when the private school doesn’t do the same.

The extremely smart kids in the real 99th percentile will get all As. And down the line it goes. If there are a few students who accomplish mastering the class that means it can be done and students not doing as well shouldn’t minimize their achievement by whining No Fair!

That's really not how grading works. In college, the scores set the curve, but no college says you have to get the highest score in order to get an A...that simply helps increase the median/mean score and possibly drives a wider standard deviation.

At my kid's Top3 college there is one class where the mean is like a 48 out of 100. If you get a 48, that is an A-. In that one class, everyone was pretty well clustered between a 35 - 60...with the exception of one kid at a 98 (and unfortunately, many kids scoring like between 4 to 10). So, a 98 would be an A+++ if that could be awarded, but a 35 was a B/B-, and basically, a 50 or higher was an A.

That is how curved grading works. If the schools folks are complaining about graded this way...doubt it would be a problem.

I’m a teacher. If only one student in a class full of bright, engaged learners who are devoting multiple hours per week to my course work is earning an A, that is my issue. Either I’m not doing a good job preparing lessons and content or the test doesn’t reflect the course level/material.

[Anonymous]

Sorry I’m replying to the comment above yours

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience (3 kids) I think what happens in part is that these schools grade to the smartest kid in the room and then curve down accordingly. For instance, there will be one kid (or a handful) in sophomore English who can write an essay worthy of a senior seminar class in a college English class. So there are your As. And the grades go down from that. The kids who are just "very good writers" and turn in "very good for a sophomore in high school" level work get a B.

It's the same in math. My kid is currently in math class beyond calculus. She has a perfect math SAT score. She's good at math but this class is HARD. The average on tests is about a 75. But there is always one kid who manages to get a 98. So there goes any curve or corrections. There is your A. And everyone goes down from there.

I don't know what other schools or districts do in these cases when you have a few extreme outliers. The kids at these top privates are almost all very strong students and were admitted to the private (most of them) because they were at the top at their sending schools. But in each subject there tend to be few kids who is outlandishly gifted. And then they scoop up the 2 As in that class.

That’s what they will encounter in life. Your daughter has a perfect SAT math score but that’s not difficult math. Now she’s in a difficult math class.

If there’s only one kid who can completely and accurately complete the math test then there is only one A. Why would someone who couldn’t finish the test accurately get an A?

There’s a hypocrisy here. A lot of sneers about public schools handing out “A”s for students who get 70% on tests and then complaining when the private school doesn’t do the same.

The extremely smart kids in the real 99th percentile will get all As. And down the line it goes. If there are a few students who accomplish mastering the class that means it can be done and students not doing as well shouldn’t minimize their achievement by whining No Fair!

That's really not how grading works. In college, the scores set the curve, but no college says you have to get the highest score in order to get an A...that simply helps increase the median/mean score and possibly drives a wider standard deviation.

At my kid's Top3 college there is one class where the mean is like a 48 out of 100. If you get a 48, that is an A-. In that one class, everyone was pretty well clustered between a 35 - 60...with the exception of one kid at a 98 (and unfortunately, many kids scoring like between 4 to 10). So, a 98 would be an A+++ if that could be awarded, but a 35 was a B/B-, and basically, a 50 or higher was an A.

That is how curved grading works. If the schools folks are complaining about graded this way...doubt it would be a problem.

I’m a teacher. If only one student in a class full of bright, engaged learners who are devoting multiple hours per week to my course work is earning an A, that is my issue. Either I’m not doing a good job preparing lessons and content or the test doesn’t reflect the course level/material.

In the example above the teacher purposely creates "impossible" tests...but, yes there is usually 1 kid (out of 250 across the sections) that is just way above everyone else. This is how you figure out the true genius-like kid vs. all the other kids (again, this HYP) who are just really smart.

Not sure if that is your approach as a teacher, but it is not entirely unusual.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience (3 kids) I think what happens in part is that these schools grade to the smartest kid in the room and then curve down accordingly. For instance, there will be one kid (or a handful) in sophomore English who can write an essay worthy of a senior seminar class in a college English class. So there are your As. And the grades go down from that. The kids who are just "very good writers" and turn in "very good for a sophomore in high school" level work get a B.

It's the same in math. My kid is currently in math class beyond calculus. She has a perfect math SAT score. She's good at math but this class is HARD. The average on tests is about a 75. But there is always one kid who manages to get a 98. So there goes any curve or corrections. There is your A. And everyone goes down from there.

I don't know what other schools or districts do in these cases when you have a few extreme outliers. The kids at these top privates are almost all very strong students and were admitted to the private (most of them) because they were at the top at their sending schools. But in each subject there tend to be few kids who is outlandishly gifted. And then they scoop up the 2 As in that class.

That’s what they will encounter in life. Your daughter has a perfect SAT math score but that’s not difficult math. Now she’s in a difficult math class.

If there’s only one kid who can completely and accurately complete the math test then there is only one A. Why would someone who couldn’t finish the test accurately get an A?

There’s a hypocrisy here. A lot of sneers about public schools handing out “A”s for students who get 70% on tests and then complaining when the private school doesn’t do the same.

The extremely smart kids in the real 99th percentile will get all As. And down the line it goes. If there are a few students who accomplish mastering the class that means it can be done and students not doing as well shouldn’t minimize their achievement by whining No Fair!

That's really not how grading works. In college, the scores set the curve, but no college says you have to get the highest score in order to get an A...that simply helps increase the median/mean score and possibly drives a wider standard deviation.

At my kid's Top3 college there is one class where the mean is like a 48 out of 100. If you get a 48, that is an A-. In that one class, everyone was pretty well clustered between a 35 - 60...with the exception of one kid at a 98 (and unfortunately, many kids scoring like between 4 to 10). So, a 98 would be an A+++ if that could be awarded, but a 35 was a B/B-, and basically, a 50 or higher was an A.

That is how curved grading works. If the schools folks are complaining about graded this way...doubt it would be a problem.

I get that colleges use the curved grade system. But not every high school does curved grading. Critics think it brings motivation way down in high school. They find out they only have to know half the curriculum to get an “A” so no need to master the class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience (3 kids) I think what happens in part is that these schools grade to the smartest kid in the room and then curve down accordingly. For instance, there will be one kid (or a handful) in sophomore English who can write an essay worthy of a senior seminar class in a college English class. So there are your As. And the grades go down from that. The kids who are just "very good writers" and turn in "very good for a sophomore in high school" level work get a B.

It's the same in math. My kid is currently in math class beyond calculus. She has a perfect math SAT score. She's good at math but this class is HARD. The average on tests is about a 75. But there is always one kid who manages to get a 98. So there goes any curve or corrections. There is your A. And everyone goes down from there.

I don't know what other schools or districts do in these cases when you have a few extreme outliers. The kids at these top privates are almost all very strong students and were admitted to the private (most of them) because they were at the top at their sending schools. But in each subject there tend to be few kids who is outlandishly gifted. And then they scoop up the 2 As in that class.

That’s what they will encounter in life. Your daughter has a perfect SAT math score but that’s not difficult math. Now she’s in a difficult math class.

If there’s only one kid who can completely and accurately complete the math test then there is only one A. Why would someone who couldn’t finish the test accurately get an A?

There’s a hypocrisy here. A lot of sneers about public schools handing out “A”s for students who get 70% on tests and then complaining when the private school doesn’t do the same.

The extremely smart kids in the real 99th percentile will get all As. And down the line it goes. If there are a few students who accomplish mastering the class that means it can be done and students not doing as well shouldn’t minimize their achievement by whining No Fair!

That's really not how grading works. In college, the scores set the curve, but no college says you have to get the highest score in order to get an A...that simply helps increase the median/mean score and possibly drives a wider standard deviation.

At my kid's Top3 college there is one class where the mean is like a 48 out of 100. If you get a 48, that is an A-. In that one class, everyone was pretty well clustered between a 35 - 60...with the exception of one kid at a 98 (and unfortunately, many kids scoring like between 4 to 10). So, a 98 would be an A+++ if that could be awarded, but a 35 was a B/B-, and basically, a 50 or higher was an A.

That is how curved grading works. If the schools folks are complaining about graded this way...doubt it would be a problem.

I’m a teacher. If only one student in a class full of bright, engaged learners who are devoting multiple hours per week to my course work is earning an A, that is my issue. Either I’m not doing a good job preparing lessons and content or the test doesn’t reflect the course level/material.

In the example above the teacher purposely creates "impossible" tests...but, yes there is usually 1 kid (out of 250 across the sections) that is just way above everyone else. This is how you figure out the true genius-like kid vs. all the other kids (again, this HYP) who are just really smart.

Not sure if that is your approach as a teacher, but it is not entirely unusual.

It isn’t, because I don’t see the benefit to student learning. The goal of teaching a course isn’t to stratify students; the goal is for students to learn the desired material or skill. A high school teacher anointing oneself as the person who decides “genius vs really smart” is bizarre. We are trained to teach content and skills, not to identify Einstein. I’ve taught as a high school teacher and a college professor, and I can’t argue for this approach in either environment (even in rigorous college prep independent schools).

[Anonymous]

So, worried NCS parents, how’d interims go?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience (3 kids) I think what happens in part is that these schools grade to the smartest kid in the room and then curve down accordingly. For instance, there will be one kid (or a handful) in sophomore English who can write an essay worthy of a senior seminar class in a college English class. So there are your As. And the grades go down from that. The kids who are just "very good writers" and turn in "very good for a sophomore in high school" level work get a B.

It's the same in math. My kid is currently in math class beyond calculus. She has a perfect math SAT score. She's good at math but this class is HARD. The average on tests is about a 75. But there is always one kid who manages to get a 98. So there goes any curve or corrections. There is your A. And everyone goes down from there.

I don't know what other schools or districts do in these cases when you have a few extreme outliers. The kids at these top privates are almost all very strong students and were admitted to the private (most of them) because they were at the top at their sending schools. But in each subject there tend to be few kids who is outlandishly gifted. And then they scoop up the 2 As in that class.

That’s what they will encounter in life. Your daughter has a perfect SAT math score but that’s not difficult math. Now she’s in a difficult math class.

If there’s only one kid who can completely and accurately complete the math test then there is only one A. Why would someone who couldn’t finish the test accurately get an A?

There’s a hypocrisy here. A lot of sneers about public schools handing out “A”s for students who get 70% on tests and then complaining when the private school doesn’t do the same.

The extremely smart kids in the real 99th percentile will get all As. And down the line it goes. If there are a few students who accomplish mastering the class that means it can be done and students not doing as well shouldn’t minimize their achievement by whining No Fair!

That's really not how grading works. In college, the scores set the curve, but no college says you have to get the highest score in order to get an A...that simply helps increase the median/mean score and possibly drives a wider standard deviation.

At my kid's Top3 college there is one class where the mean is like a 48 out of 100. If you get a 48, that is an A-. In that one class, everyone was pretty well clustered between a 35 - 60...with the exception of one kid at a 98 (and unfortunately, many kids scoring like between 4 to 10). So, a 98 would be an A+++ if that could be awarded, but a 35 was a B/B-, and basically, a 50 or higher was an A.

That is how curved grading works. If the schools folks are complaining about graded this way...doubt it would be a problem.

I’m a teacher. If only one student in a class full of bright, engaged learners who are devoting multiple hours per week to my course work is earning an A, that is my issue. Either I’m not doing a good job preparing lessons and content or the test doesn’t reflect the course level/material.

In the example above the teacher purposely creates "impossible" tests...but, yes there is usually 1 kid (out of 250 across the sections) that is just way above everyone else. This is how you figure out the true genius-like kid vs. all the other kids (again, this HYP) who are just really smart.

Not sure if that is your approach as a teacher, but it is not entirely unusual.

It isn’t, because I don’t see the benefit to student learning. The goal of teaching a course isn’t to stratify students; the goal is for students to learn the desired material or skill. A high school teacher anointing oneself as the person who decides “genius vs really smart” is bizarre. We are trained to teach content and skills, not to identify Einstein. I’ve taught as a high school teacher and a college professor, and I can’t argue for this approach in either environment (even in rigorous college prep independent schools).

+1. Genius level students or those with unique aptitude in a particular area stand out if one pays attention. There is no need to demoralize an entire class of students that are putting in immense effort. The goal is to impart content and then challenge them to think critically. Most people aren’t going to solve Millenium problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience (3 kids) I think what happens in part is that these schools grade to the smartest kid in the room and then curve down accordingly. For instance, there will be one kid (or a handful) in sophomore English who can write an essay worthy of a senior seminar class in a college English class. So there are your As. And the grades go down from that. The kids who are just "very good writers" and turn in "very good for a sophomore in high school" level work get a B.

It's the same in math. My kid is currently in math class beyond calculus. She has a perfect math SAT score. She's good at math but this class is HARD. The average on tests is about a 75. But there is always one kid who manages to get a 98. So there goes any curve or corrections. There is your A. And everyone goes down from there.

I don't know what other schools or districts do in these cases when you have a few extreme outliers. The kids at these top privates are almost all very strong students and were admitted to the private (most of them) because they were at the top at their sending schools. But in each subject there tend to be few kids who is outlandishly gifted. And then they scoop up the 2 As in that class.

That’s what they will encounter in life. Your daughter has a perfect SAT math score but that’s not difficult math. Now she’s in a difficult math class.

If there’s only one kid who can completely and accurately complete the math test then there is only one A. Why would someone who couldn’t finish the test accurately get an A?

There’s a hypocrisy here. A lot of sneers about public schools handing out “A”s for students who get 70% on tests and then complaining when the private school doesn’t do the same.

The extremely smart kids in the real 99th percentile will get all As. And down the line it goes. If there are a few students who accomplish mastering the class that means it can be done and students not doing as well shouldn’t minimize their achievement by whining No Fair!

That's really not how grading works. In college, the scores set the curve, but no college says you have to get the highest score in order to get an A...that simply helps increase the median/mean score and possibly drives a wider standard deviation.

At my kid's Top3 college there is one class where the mean is like a 48 out of 100. If you get a 48, that is an A-. In that one class, everyone was pretty well clustered between a 35 - 60...with the exception of one kid at a 98 (and unfortunately, many kids scoring like between 4 to 10). So, a 98 would be an A+++ if that could be awarded, but a 35 was a B/B-, and basically, a 50 or higher was an A.

That is how curved grading works. If the schools folks are complaining about graded this way...doubt it would be a problem.

I get that colleges use the curved grade system. But not every high school does curved grading. Critics think it brings motivation way down in high school. They find out they only have to know half the curriculum to get an “A” so no need to master the class.

That's interesting, because my university, which is known as a pressure cooker, has been doing away with curved grading, or at least encouraging professors not to use the curve. The rationale is that curving creates too much pressure and encourages intense competition between students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That's not grade deflating. That's normal even in public school now. Your kid needs to work harder.

I feel the same as OP but have a hs kid at a W school. For the advanced honors and hardest AP classes, as with IB as well I am sure, it is this way as well. Not all teachers but definitely some. My kid has a 3.7 in public unweighted with a very hard course load. I don’t know if they made the right choice by not taking easier classes to protect a high gpa. It is a bit different since public schools give a weighted gpa too. But College admissions is a crap shoot now. At least they are forced to work hard and are learning. Submit high test scores to bolster the application when the time comes. I agree that there should be a focus on learning but not at such a high cost that it creates so much stress.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience (3 kids) I think what happens in part is that these schools grade to the smartest kid in the room and then curve down accordingly. For instance, there will be one kid (or a handful) in sophomore English who can write an essay worthy of a senior seminar class in a college English class. So there are your As. And the grades go down from that. The kids who are just "very good writers" and turn in "very good for a sophomore in high school" level work get a B.

It's the same in math. My kid is currently in math class beyond calculus. She has a perfect math SAT score. She's good at math but this class is HARD. The average on tests is about a 75. But there is always one kid who manages to get a 98. So there goes any curve or corrections. There is your A. And everyone goes down from there.

I don't know what other schools or districts do in these cases when you have a few extreme outliers. The kids at these top privates are almost all very strong students and were admitted to the private (most of them) because they were at the top at their sending schools. But in each subject there tend to be few kids who is outlandishly gifted. And then they scoop up the 2 As in that class.

That’s what they will encounter in life. Your daughter has a perfect SAT math score but that’s not difficult math. Now she’s in a difficult math class.

If there’s only one kid who can completely and accurately complete the math test then there is only one A. Why would someone who couldn’t finish the test accurately get an A?

There’s a hypocrisy here. A lot of sneers about public schools handing out “A”s for students who get 70% on tests and then complaining when the private school doesn’t do the same.

The extremely smart kids in the real 99th percentile will get all As. And down the line it goes. If there are a few students who accomplish mastering the class that means it can be done and students not doing as well shouldn’t minimize their achievement by whining No Fair!

That's really not how grading works. In college, the scores set the curve, but no college says you have to get the highest score in order to get an A...that simply helps increase the median/mean score and possibly drives a wider standard deviation.

At my kid's Top3 college there is one class where the mean is like a 48 out of 100. If you get a 48, that is an A-. In that one class, everyone was pretty well clustered between a 35 - 60...with the exception of one kid at a 98 (and unfortunately, many kids scoring like between 4 to 10). So, a 98 would be an A+++ if that could be awarded, but a 35 was a B/B-, and basically, a 50 or higher was an A.

That is how curved grading works. If the schools folks are complaining about graded this way...doubt it would be a problem.

I’m a teacher. If only one student in a class full of bright, engaged learners who are devoting multiple hours per week to my course work is earning an A, that is my issue. Either I’m not doing a good job preparing lessons and content or the test doesn’t reflect the course level/material.

In the example above the teacher purposely creates "impossible" tests...but, yes there is usually 1 kid (out of 250 across the sections) that is just way above everyone else. This is how you figure out the true genius-like kid vs. all the other kids (again, this HYP) who are just really smart.

Not sure if that is your approach as a teacher, but it is not entirely unusual.

It is not the job of a single teacher (or each teacher) to identify the 1 kid that is truly exceptional above all others by never giving A's to others. The way to do that is in a letter of recommendation. You do not dismiss the achievements of everyone else. But this is definitely how many Sidwell teachers like to operate, like it's a badge of honor to be the hardest class at the school. Great - yet nobody tells colleges this. (and it's even worse when it's a class that has many sections and other teachers don't have the same grading rubric)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience (3 kids) I think what happens in part is that these schools grade to the smartest kid in the room and then curve down accordingly. For instance, there will be one kid (or a handful) in sophomore English who can write an essay worthy of a senior seminar class in a college English class. So there are your As. And the grades go down from that. The kids who are just "very good writers" and turn in "very good for a sophomore in high school" level work get a B.

It's the same in math. My kid is currently in math class beyond calculus. She has a perfect math SAT score. She's good at math but this class is HARD. The average on tests is about a 75. But there is always one kid who manages to get a 98. So there goes any curve or corrections. There is your A. And everyone goes down from there.

I don't know what other schools or districts do in these cases when you have a few extreme outliers. The kids at these top privates are almost all very strong students and were admitted to the private (most of them) because they were at the top at their sending schools. But in each subject there tend to be few kids who is outlandishly gifted. And then they scoop up the 2 As in that class.

That’s what they will encounter in life. Your daughter has a perfect SAT math score but that’s not difficult math. Now she’s in a difficult math class.

If there’s only one kid who can completely and accurately complete the math test then there is only one A. Why would someone who couldn’t finish the test accurately get an A?

There’s a hypocrisy here. A lot of sneers about public schools handing out “A”s for students who get 70% on tests and then complaining when the private school doesn’t do the same.

The extremely smart kids in the real 99th percentile will get all As. And down the line it goes. If there are a few students who accomplish mastering the class that means it can be done and students not doing as well shouldn’t minimize their achievement by whining No Fair!

That's really not how grading works. In college, the scores set the curve, but no college says you have to get the highest score in order to get an A...that simply helps increase the median/mean score and possibly drives a wider standard deviation.

At my kid's Top3 college there is one class where the mean is like a 48 out of 100. If you get a 48, that is an A-. In that one class, everyone was pretty well clustered between a 35 - 60...with the exception of one kid at a 98 (and unfortunately, many kids scoring like between 4 to 10). So, a 98 would be an A+++ if that could be awarded, but a 35 was a B/B-, and basically, a 50 or higher was an A.

That is how curved grading works. If the schools folks are complaining about graded this way...doubt it would be a problem.

I’m a teacher. If only one student in a class full of bright, engaged learners who are devoting multiple hours per week to my course work is earning an A, that is my issue. Either I’m not doing a good job preparing lessons and content or the test doesn’t reflect the course level/material.

In the example above the teacher purposely creates "impossible" tests...but, yes there is usually 1 kid (out of 250 across the sections) that is just way above everyone else. This is how you figure out the true genius-like kid vs. all the other kids (again, this HYP) who are just really smart.

Not sure if that is your approach as a teacher, but it is not entirely unusual.

It is not the job of a single teacher (or each teacher) to identify the 1 kid that is truly exceptional above all others by never giving A's to others. The way to do that is in a letter of recommendation. You do not dismiss the achievements of everyone else. But this is definitely how many Sidwell teachers like to operate, like it's a badge of honor to be the hardest class at the school. Great - yet nobody tells colleges this. (and it's even worse when it's a class that has many sections and other teachers don't have the same grading rubric)

PP...the rest of the class does not get poor grades. In this specific instance, the mean score is a 48 which is an A-...if a college could award an A+++, the kid with the 98 would get it. So, I gather you would be fine if that was how the grading worked, and quite honestly, how grading should work in classes as you describe above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience (3 kids) I think what happens in part is that these schools grade to the smartest kid in the room and then curve down accordingly. For instance, there will be one kid (or a handful) in sophomore English who can write an essay worthy of a senior seminar class in a college English class. So there are your As. And the grades go down from that. The kids who are just "very good writers" and turn in "very good for a sophomore in high school" level work get a B.

It's the same in math. My kid is currently in math class beyond calculus. She has a perfect math SAT score. She's good at math but this class is HARD. The average on tests is about a 75. But there is always one kid who manages to get a 98. So there goes any curve or corrections. There is your A. And everyone goes down from there.

I don't know what other schools or districts do in these cases when you have a few extreme outliers. The kids at these top privates are almost all very strong students and were admitted to the private (most of them) because they were at the top at their sending schools. But in each subject there tend to be few kids who is outlandishly gifted. And then they scoop up the 2 As in that class.

That’s what they will encounter in life. Your daughter has a perfect SAT math score but that’s not difficult math. Now she’s in a difficult math class.

If there’s only one kid who can completely and accurately complete the math test then there is only one A. Why would someone who couldn’t finish the test accurately get an A?

There’s a hypocrisy here. A lot of sneers about public schools handing out “A”s for students who get 70% on tests and then complaining when the private school doesn’t do the same.

The extremely smart kids in the real 99th percentile will get all As. And down the line it goes. If there are a few students who accomplish mastering the class that means it can be done and students not doing as well shouldn’t minimize their achievement by whining No Fair!

That's really not how grading works. In college, the scores set the curve, but no college says you have to get the highest score in order to get an A...that simply helps increase the median/mean score and possibly drives a wider standard deviation.

At my kid's Top3 college there is one class where the mean is like a 48 out of 100. If you get a 48, that is an A-. In that one class, everyone was pretty well clustered between a 35 - 60...with the exception of one kid at a 98 (and unfortunately, many kids scoring like between 4 to 10). So, a 98 would be an A+++ if that could be awarded, but a 35 was a B/B-, and basically, a 50 or higher was an A.

That is how curved grading works. If the schools folks are complaining about graded this way...doubt it would be a problem.

I get that colleges use the curved grade system. But not every high school does curved grading. Critics think it brings motivation way down in high school. They find out they only have to know half the curriculum to get an “A” so no need to master the class.

That's interesting, because my university, which is known as a pressure cooker, has been doing away with curved grading, or at least encouraging professors not to use the curve. The rationale is that curving creates too much pressure and encourages intense competition between students.

I understand what you are saying. I recall back in my day that the organic chemistry class (the traditional premed weed out class) had a 97 mean, so you thought you did well with your 93, but that was a B-. However, the flip side is that if a class is run where you should expect the mean to be a 50 and only literally 1 or 2 kids scores above a 65 (out of 200+)...then the entire class would basically fail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience (3 kids) I think what happens in part is that these schools grade to the smartest kid in the room and then curve down accordingly. For instance, there will be one kid (or a handful) in sophomore English who can write an essay worthy of a senior seminar class in a college English class. So there are your As. And the grades go down from that. The kids who are just "very good writers" and turn in "very good for a sophomore in high school" level work get a B.

It's the same in math. My kid is currently in math class beyond calculus. She has a perfect math SAT score. She's good at math but this class is HARD. The average on tests is about a 75. But there is always one kid who manages to get a 98. So there goes any curve or corrections. There is your A. And everyone goes down from there.

I don't know what other schools or districts do in these cases when you have a few extreme outliers. The kids at these top privates are almost all very strong students and were admitted to the private (most of them) because they were at the top at their sending schools. But in each subject there tend to be few kids who is outlandishly gifted. And then they scoop up the 2 As in that class.

That’s what they will encounter in life. Your daughter has a perfect SAT math score but that’s not difficult math. Now she’s in a difficult math class.

If there’s only one kid who can completely and accurately complete the math test then there is only one A. Why would someone who couldn’t finish the test accurately get an A?

There’s a hypocrisy here. A lot of sneers about public schools handing out “A”s for students who get 70% on tests and then complaining when the private school doesn’t do the same.

The extremely smart kids in the real 99th percentile will get all As. And down the line it goes. If there are a few students who accomplish mastering the class that means it can be done and students not doing as well shouldn’t minimize their achievement by whining No Fair!

That's really not how grading works. In college, the scores set the curve, but no college says you have to get the highest score in order to get an A...that simply helps increase the median/mean score and possibly drives a wider standard deviation.

At my kid's Top3 college there is one class where the mean is like a 48 out of 100. If you get a 48, that is an A-. In that one class, everyone was pretty well clustered between a 35 - 60...with the exception of one kid at a 98 (and unfortunately, many kids scoring like between 4 to 10). So, a 98 would be an A+++ if that could be awarded, but a 35 was a B/B-, and basically, a 50 or higher was an A.

That is how curved grading works. If the schools folks are complaining about graded this way...doubt it would be a problem.

I’m a teacher. If only one student in a class full of bright, engaged learners who are devoting multiple hours per week to my course work is earning an A, that is my issue. Either I’m not doing a good job preparing lessons and content or the test doesn’t reflect the course level/material.

In the example above the teacher purposely creates "impossible" tests...but, yes there is usually 1 kid (out of 250 across the sections) that is just way above everyone else. This is how you figure out the true genius-like kid vs. all the other kids (again, this HYP) who are just really smart.

Not sure if that is your approach as a teacher, but it is not entirely unusual.

It is not the job of a single teacher (or each teacher) to identify the 1 kid that is truly exceptional above all others by never giving A's to others. The way to do that is in a letter of recommendation. You do not dismiss the achievements of everyone else. But this is definitely how many Sidwell teachers like to operate, like it's a badge of honor to be the hardest class at the school. Great - yet nobody tells colleges this. (and it's even worse when it's a class that has many sections and other teachers don't have the same grading rubric)

It's a sign of poor school leadership if the teachers teaching the same class can vary significantly in curriculum and grading. They should be required to collaborate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience (3 kids) I think what happens in part is that these schools grade to the smartest kid in the room and then curve down accordingly. For instance, there will be one kid (or a handful) in sophomore English who can write an essay worthy of a senior seminar class in a college English class. So there are your As. And the grades go down from that. The kids who are just "very good writers" and turn in "very good for a sophomore in high school" level work get a B.

It's the same in math. My kid is currently in math class beyond calculus. She has a perfect math SAT score. She's good at math but this class is HARD. The average on tests is about a 75. But there is always one kid who manages to get a 98. So there goes any curve or corrections. There is your A. And everyone goes down from there.

I don't know what other schools or districts do in these cases when you have a few extreme outliers. The kids at these top privates are almost all very strong students and were admitted to the private (most of them) because they were at the top at their sending schools. But in each subject there tend to be few kids who is outlandishly gifted. And then they scoop up the 2 As in that class.

That’s what they will encounter in life. Your daughter has a perfect SAT math score but that’s not difficult math. Now she’s in a difficult math class.

If there’s only one kid who can completely and accurately complete the math test then there is only one A. Why would someone who couldn’t finish the test accurately get an A?

There’s a hypocrisy here. A lot of sneers about public schools handing out “A”s for students who get 70% on tests and then complaining when the private school doesn’t do the same.

The extremely smart kids in the real 99th percentile will get all As. And down the line it goes. If there are a few students who accomplish mastering the class that means it can be done and students not doing as well shouldn’t minimize their achievement by whining No Fair!

That's really not how grading works. In college, the scores set the curve, but no college says you have to get the highest score in order to get an A...that simply helps increase the median/mean score and possibly drives a wider standard deviation.

At my kid's Top3 college there is one class where the mean is like a 48 out of 100. If you get a 48, that is an A-. In that one class, everyone was pretty well clustered between a 35 - 60...with the exception of one kid at a 98 (and unfortunately, many kids scoring like between 4 to 10). So, a 98 would be an A+++ if that could be awarded, but a 35 was a B/B-, and basically, a 50 or higher was an A.

That is how curved grading works. If the schools folks are complaining about graded this way...doubt it would be a problem.

I get that colleges use the curved grade system. But not every high school does curved grading. Critics think it brings motivation way down in high school. They find out they only have to know half the curriculum to get an “A” so no need to master the class.

That's interesting, because my university, which is known as a pressure cooker, has been doing away with curved grading, or at least encouraging professors not to use the curve. The rationale is that curving creates too much pressure and encourages intense competition between students.

I understand what you are saying. I recall back in my day that the organic chemistry class (the traditional premed weed out class) had a 97 mean, so you thought you did well with your 93, but that was a B-. However, the flip side is that if a class is run where you should expect the mean to be a 50 and only literally 1 or 2 kids scores above a 65 (out of 200+)...then the entire class would basically fail.

I went to a school that curved to a B-. I thought it was fair because easy and tough grading professors were removed from the equation