Rigor at TJ compared to regular FCPS high Schools

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You cannot compare the no. 1 ranked high school in the country with a university not even in the top 20.

Why would MIT grad dream of going on to grad school in CS at UVA? Non-sense. In-state tuition is the only thing attracting few TJ kids who do apply. Getting really sick of UVA non-sense from all the UVA morons.

All they know how to do is attack other schools and mock them so immature and insecure bunch of aholes.

Regardless of what the reasons are for why they apply, they do apply in large numbers. At least 200 TJ students apply to UVA every year. And sure, some do turn down their offers of admission, but the bottom line is they get admitted at a far lower rate than they did previously.

In the 90s and 2000s, the group of TJ students going to UVA mostly came from the 25th-65th percentile of the senior class. Nowadays it's more like the 10th-30th.

It's kind of sad how TJ has declined these past few decades.

what else can we expect other than continued decline when students are being admitted based on five line essay writing ability than their indepth middle school mastery of math, science and english language.

Actually, quality has gone up since the latest admission changes. It was the previous two decades that oversaw the decline.

This should also manifest in better college outcomes and the restoration of TJ to the number one high school in America as students admitted under the old system age out.

Every indicator suggests the quality has gone up while toxicity has declined. Overall it's a much better school than a few years ago.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think TJ is more rigorous in general than UVA especially for the top 10%.

TJ is more rigorous than all but a select handful of colleges in the country. When it comes specifically to undergrad work in STEM, TJ outpaces basically everyone except MIT and Caltech. At any other school TJ students will routinely report that college is easier.

Even MIT and Caltech gets impressed at the mention of TJ. The difficulty level at TJ is so high that course handouts come with warning labels: "Caution: Contents may induce spontaneous brain combustion." TJ students dont just study physics; they're trying to decipher the secrets of the universe while simultaneously figuring out how to operate a microwave without blowing up the entire building. In chemistry, they've concocted potions that could either win them a Nobel Prize or turn their classmates into frogs. In biology, they spend so much time peering into microscopes that they forever see double every time they look at a regular-sized object. And in calculus they solve such complex mathematical equations that teachers bring in university professors to help grade them.

Serious question: What were you hoping to accomplish with this reply?

We may never know! But we can have a little fun, can we not?

Comparing high school rigor even if it's TJ to college-level courses is like comparing a kiddie pool to the Mariana Trench. At TJ, students are navigating the shallow waters of Calculus BC and maybe multivariable calculus, while a ranked college hits them with the tidal wave of quantum physics with applied calculus. It's like trying to go from driving a big boy bicycle to piloting a spaceship to Mars. TJ is like the kiddie menu or an adult meal at a corner restaurant, and college is the five-course chef's tasting menu at a Michelin-starred restaurant – and you better believe it comes with a hefty bill of late-night & weekend cramming and existential crises.

You don't know what you're talking about. Ask just about any TJ student (except for the ones who attend the schools I mentioned) and they will tell you that college was FAR easier than TJ.

The material is more challenging (or at least more advanced) in college, but the workload, the level of time stress, and the exam pressure is FAR less.

That's not really unique to TJ. Our IB kids that come back to visit report that the IB diploma was far more work than their first two years of college.

Maybe your IB kid went to place like Uva - only the bottom 20% of TJ grads even consider Uva.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You cannot compare the no. 1 ranked high school in the country with a university not even in the top 20.

Why would MIT grad dream of going on to grad school in CS at UVA? Non-sense. In-state tuition is the only thing attracting few TJ kids who do apply. Getting really sick of UVA non-sense from all the UVA morons.

All they know how to do is attack other schools and mock them so immature and insecure bunch of aholes.

Regardless of what the reasons are for why they apply, they do apply in large numbers. At least 200 TJ students apply to UVA every year. And sure, some do turn down their offers of admission, but the bottom line is they get admitted at a far lower rate than they did previously.

In the 90s and 2000s, the group of TJ students going to UVA mostly came from the 25th-65th percentile of the senior class. Nowadays it's more like the 10th-30th.

It's kind of sad how TJ has declined these past few decades.

what else can we expect other than continued decline when students are being admitted based on five line essay writing ability than their indepth middle school mastery of math, science and english language.

Actually, quality has gone up since the latest admission changes. It was the previous two decades that oversaw the decline.

This should also manifest in better college outcomes and the restoration of TJ to the number one high school in America as students admitted under the old system age out.

Every indicator suggests the quality has gone up while toxicity has declined. Overall it's a much better school than a few years ago.

Let's hope that improves their college outcomes too since even state seem to be out of reach for many TJ grads thee past few years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You cannot compare the no. 1 ranked high school in the country with a university not even in the top 20.

Why would MIT grad dream of going on to grad school in CS at UVA? Non-sense. In-state tuition is the only thing attracting few TJ kids who do apply. Getting really sick of UVA non-sense from all the UVA morons.

All they know how to do is attack other schools and mock them so immature and insecure bunch of aholes.

Regardless of what the reasons are for why they apply, they do apply in large numbers. At least 200 TJ students apply to UVA every year. And sure, some do turn down their offers of admission, but the bottom line is they get admitted at a far lower rate than they did previously.

In the 90s and 2000s, the group of TJ students going to UVA mostly came from the 25th-65th percentile of the senior class. Nowadays it's more like the 10th-30th.

It's kind of sad how TJ has declined these past few decades.

what else can we expect other than continued decline when students are being admitted based on five line essay writing ability than their indepth middle school mastery of math, science and english language.

Actually, quality has gone up since the latest admission changes. It was the previous two decades that oversaw the decline.

This should also manifest in better college outcomes and the restoration of TJ to the number one high school in America as students admitted under the old system age out.

Every indicator suggests the quality has gone up while toxicity has declined. Overall it's a much better school than a few years ago.

Any indicators apart from "hearsay" which can be referenced?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It isn't even even in different high schools in FCPS. My sophomore at Langley has a friend who switched from another FCPS school and was getting all 100's and now is horrified to be struggling at Langley with B and C's. And yet I'm sure the high school the kid is at previously would do better in college admissions.

Sounds like your kid and their friend are in general ed classes. Obviously general ed at Langley is at a higher level than general ed at Mt. Vernon. But then again those other general ed kids aren't applying to UVA so I wouldn't worry about them.

However, teachers who teach AP/IB use prior year AP/IB format questions on their classroom tests. So the rigor across AP/IB schools is essentially standardized to that difficulty.

If you think IB rigor at Mount Vernon is similar to AP rigor at Langley, you’re delusional.

Yes, it's well known that IB is far more challenging than any AP course.

+1

Nice try, but very wrong. Gen Ed at Langley is more challenging than IB at Mount Vernon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You cannot compare the no. 1 ranked high school in the country with a university not even in the top 20.

Why would MIT grad dream of going on to grad school in CS at UVA? Non-sense. In-state tuition is the only thing attracting few TJ kids who do apply. Getting really sick of UVA non-sense from all the UVA morons.

All they know how to do is attack other schools and mock them so immature and insecure bunch of aholes.

Regardless of what the reasons are for why they apply, they do apply in large numbers. At least 200 TJ students apply to UVA every year. And sure, some do turn down their offers of admission, but the bottom line is they get admitted at a far lower rate than they did previously.

In the 90s and 2000s, the group of TJ students going to UVA mostly came from the 25th-65th percentile of the senior class. Nowadays it's more like the 10th-30th.

It's kind of sad how TJ has declined these past few decades.

what else can we expect other than continued decline when students are being admitted based on five line essay writing ability than their indepth middle school mastery of math, science and english language.

Actually, quality has gone up since the latest admission changes. It was the previous two decades that oversaw the decline.

This should also manifest in better college outcomes and the restoration of TJ to the number one high school in America as students admitted under the old system age out.

Every indicator suggests the quality has gone up while toxicity has declined. Overall it's a much better school than a few years ago.

The latest classes seem to be as strong as ever. One poster said there are probably 800 qualified students and only 400 get picked. The new process just picks 250 top kids like the old system but the lower 150 are qualified kids but end up being different than the 150 that would've been selected by the older system. The older system would've favored the lower-tier preppers from the wealthy schools whereas the new one ensures that bright students throughout the county get a shot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rigor at TJ compared to regular FCPS high Schools is much more.. Every course that is taught on Math, Science, CS side is more in depth and the testing way tougher than in a regular High school. Grading is tougher. So how do colleges not keep this in mind while evaluating student applications. It is definielty easy to get A's in a HS where rigor is lesser ! Looking for advice

Top colleges have a quota on TJ and also have a soft quota on Asians.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rigor at TJ compared to regular FCPS high Schools is much more.. Every course that is taught on Math, Science, CS side is more in depth and the testing way tougher than in a regular High school. Grading is tougher. So how do colleges not keep this in mind while evaluating student applications. It is definielty easy to get A's in a HS where rigor is lesser ! Looking for advice

You go to TJ to get a rigorous education. It is a drawback for college admissions for almost all the kids.

Even the tippy top TJ kid who might be in top 5% of academics at TJ would is at a slight disadvantage compared to base HS. At base the same student would have the teachers writing recommendation letters that say something to the effect of "walking on water" vs. a merely strong recommendation at TJ. The teachers at TJ were so used to seeing exceptionally strong kids over the years, that the bar to get a strong recommendation is extraordinarily high.

Colleges do consider the rigor, but would an Ivy pick bottom half student at TJ based on academics? Not unless they have some extraordinary extra-curriculars.

It is a big unfair, but consolation is that they do get really strong education.

And on top of that, about 50% are Asian so discrimination as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You cannot compare the no. 1 ranked high school in the country with a university not even in the top 20.

Why would MIT grad dream of going on to grad school in CS at UVA? Non-sense. In-state tuition is the only thing attracting few TJ kids who do apply. Getting really sick of UVA non-sense from all the UVA morons.

All they know how to do is attack other schools and mock them so immature and insecure bunch of aholes.

Regardless of what the reasons are for why they apply, they do apply in large numbers. At least 200 TJ students apply to UVA every year. And sure, some do turn down their offers of admission, but the bottom line is they get admitted at a far lower rate than they did previously.

In the 90s and 2000s, the group of TJ students going to UVA mostly came from the 25th-65th percentile of the senior class. Nowadays it's more like the 10th-30th.

It's kind of sad how TJ has declined these past few decades.

what else can we expect other than continued decline when students are being admitted based on five line essay writing ability than their indepth middle school mastery of math, science and english language.

Actually, quality has gone up since the latest admission changes. It was the previous two decades that oversaw the decline.

This should also manifest in better college outcomes and the restoration of TJ to the number one high school in America as students admitted under the old system age out.

Every indicator suggests the quality has gone up while toxicity has declined. Overall it's a much better school than a few years ago.

The latest classes seem to be as strong as ever. One poster said there are probably 800 qualified students and only 400 get picked. The new process just picks 250 top kids like the old system but the lower 150 are qualified kids but end up being different than the 150 that would've been selected by the older system. The older system would've favored the lower-tier preppers from the wealthy schools whereas the new one ensures that bright students throughout the county get a shot.

You don’t know what you’re talking about, as illustrated by the suggestion that TJ classes only have 400 kids. Seriously, you need to exit the thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You cannot compare the no. 1 ranked high school in the country with a university not even in the top 20.

Why would MIT grad dream of going on to grad school in CS at UVA? Non-sense. In-state tuition is the only thing attracting few TJ kids who do apply. Getting really sick of UVA non-sense from all the UVA morons.

All they know how to do is attack other schools and mock them so immature and insecure bunch of aholes.

Regardless of what the reasons are for why they apply, they do apply in large numbers. At least 200 TJ students apply to UVA every year. And sure, some do turn down their offers of admission, but the bottom line is they get admitted at a far lower rate than they did previously.

In the 90s and 2000s, the group of TJ students going to UVA mostly came from the 25th-65th percentile of the senior class. Nowadays it's more like the 10th-30th.

It's kind of sad how TJ has declined these past few decades.

what else can we expect other than continued decline when students are being admitted based on five line essay writing ability than their indepth middle school mastery of math, science and english language.

Actually, quality has gone up since the latest admission changes. It was the previous two decades that oversaw the decline.

This should also manifest in better college outcomes and the restoration of TJ to the number one high school in America as students admitted under the old system age out.

Every indicator suggests the quality has gone up while toxicity has declined. Overall it's a much better school than a few years ago.

The latest classes seem to be as strong as ever. One poster said there are probably 800 qualified students and only 400 get picked. The new process just picks 250 top kids like the old system but the lower 150 are qualified kids but end up being different than the 150 that would've been selected by the older system. The older system would've favored the lower-tier preppers from the wealthy schools whereas the new one ensures that bright students throughout the county get a shot.

+100 Thanks! That's what I thought!

[Anonymous]

I hear the math teachers are very frustrated with the math preparations of incoming students. Discussing changes to grading policies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hear the math teachers are very frustrated with the math preparations of incoming students. Discussing changes to grading policies.

Is this a surprise? TJ teachers choose to teach at TJ to teach the best of the best. Otherwise, they could teach at a Title 1 school and help those students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hear the math teachers are very frustrated with the math preparations of incoming students. Discussing changes to grading policies.

Yeah the SOL scores really have taken a dramatic turn. Maybe skills-based grading could be an option?

[Anonymous]

Math teachers are going crazy trying to teach middle school math. Quizzes have repeated reminders asking students to solve the problem and not write essays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hear the math teachers are very frustrated with the math preparations of incoming students. Discussing changes to grading policies.

Yeah the SOL scores really have taken a dramatic turn. Maybe skills-based grading could be an option?

seems interesting
Alg I - Pass Advanced dropped from 70% (20-21) to 29% in 21-22 and up to 56% in 22-23
Alg II - PA dropped from 63 to 53 then up to 58
Geometry - PA dropped from 73 to 42 and finally 41
Biology - PA dropped form 66 to 53 and now 58

1st year (class of 2025) seems to be generally a steep drop but again catching up (could be multiple reasons including people dropping out or not applying, OR improvement/tuning in the admission process. I thought the additional weights for the under-represented school was removed as it already had 1.5% quota, also I think the free meal issue was only identified and fixed for class of 2026).

Generally if the admission process improves to include the teacher recommendation etc then we should see the SOL's improving over time