SCOTUS outlaws race as college admissions factor

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asian students have higher average SAT scores than any other group, including whites. A study by Princeton sociologist Thomas Espenshade examined applicants to top colleges from 1997, when the maximum SAT score was 1600 (today it’s 2400). Espenshade found that Asian-Americans needed a 1550 SAT to have an equal chance of getting into an elite college as white students with a 1410 or black students with an 1100.

This research was published in a PUP book called No Longer Separate, Not Yet Equal: Race and Class in Elite College Admission and Campus Life by Thomas J. Espenshade & Alexandria Walton Radford (a free excerpt here: http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/s9072.pdf)

White people should view asians as more of a threat to their kids' chances of getting into an elite college than blacks and hispanics. I would say be careful what you wish for, but unfortunately for them, it's too late.

Again 72% of Asians have college degrees. No one is discriminating against them. They’re still going to colleges/universities. Only 43% of white hold a college degree. They’re upset that 100% of Asian students who apply to Harvard are not accepted.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:For all of you not understanding why Harvard was discriminating against Asians, let me enlighten you:

When comparing applicants with the same level of academic achievement, Asians always had the worst personality scores of any group. The SFFA constructed an index based on Harvard’s academic rating and used it to divide applicants into 10 evenly-sized groups (deciles) based on the strength of their academic performance. Within each of the 10 academic deciles, Asians had the lowest personality scores across all of the racial groups. A perfect 10 for 10.

Within each racial group, high academic performance strongly predicted high personality ratings, but Asians had the lowest average personality rating even though they had the highest average academic rating.

In contrast, Harvard alumni rated Asians similar to whites on personality and better, on average, than Latinos and blacks. But it is the admissions office, not alumni, that ultimately determines Harvard’s personality ratings.

https://thehill.com/opinion/education/3704542-harvards-cult-of-personality/

In what world is this ok?

+1 Harvard was systematically biased against Asians. I don't know how you look at the data and conclude otherwise.

+1

This whole Asians have a bad personality thing always disturbed me.

It’s so statistically awful.

The point is that Harvard's own alum who actually met the applicants scored the Asian applications just fine on "personality" but that the admissions office just ignored/overrode it. Not only are they blatantly discriminating against Asians, they are actually perpetuating racial stereotypes by making up a "personality" score for the sole purpose of failing Asians in this category. This is SO important because these are the very people calling others racist for calling them out on their discrimination. I don't even know how they sleep at night.

Who are those poor Asian students Harvard discriminated against?

These are American Indians that come from middle and upper class families who own businesses or are doctors or other high income.

These parents can afford to tutor their kids from tender age of 3 in math, etc. they pay tutors, consultants, test prep.

It’s not any different from wealthy white parents. These are wealthy Asians mostly.

What is your point? It's ok to discriminate against wealthy asians against wealthy whites or blacks?

My point is don’t throw stones at wealthy white parents trying to get their kids into good schools. You are the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asian students have higher average SAT scores than any other group, including whites. A study by Princeton sociologist Thomas Espenshade examined applicants to top colleges from 1997, when the maximum SAT score was 1600 (today it’s 2400). Espenshade found that Asian-Americans needed a 1550 SAT to have an equal chance of getting into an elite college as white students with a 1410 or black students with an 1100.

This research was published in a PUP book called No Longer Separate, Not Yet Equal: Race and Class in Elite College Admission and Campus Life by Thomas J. Espenshade & Alexandria Walton Radford (a free excerpt here: http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/s9072.pdf)

White people should view asians as more of a threat to their kids' chances of getting into an elite college than blacks and hispanics. I would say be careful what you wish for, but unfortunately for them, it's too late.

Again 72% of Asians have college degrees. No one is discriminating against them. They’re still going to colleges/universities. Only 43% of white hold a college degree. They’re upset that 100% of Asian students who apply to Harvard are not accepted.

Elite colleges always had a 20% quota for asians. It was not explicit but implicit. Since these quotas weren't explicit, I suppose they can continue imposing those quotas based on "qualitative" aka racist reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These universities will just adjust there admissions criteria to eliminate the things that preference rich white, Asian, Latino applicants. They already eliminated standardized tests. They want a diverse class and they will figure out a way to get it.

Translation: they will water down criteria and let in a whole bunch of unqualified people who’ll fail out OR they’ll have to make curricula easier, bringing the education standards down for everyone. What a brilliant plan. We can all be equal when we are all equally mediocre to crappy.

I am sure that I got into law school based on affirmative action. I did not do well on the LSAT and my grades were just ok. I had a ton of community service and was working. I graduated in the top 5% of my law school class, passed the bar with a score high enough to wave into DC. Black and brown students who are getting into these Ivy League schools are NOT flunking out!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does this mean that every elite college will be run over by Asians while every other race gets frozen out?

Only if you think there are no kinds of merit other than those in which Asian kids excel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asian students have higher average SAT scores than any other group, including whites. A study by Princeton sociologist Thomas Espenshade examined applicants to top colleges from 1997, when the maximum SAT score was 1600 (today it’s 2400). Espenshade found that Asian-Americans needed a 1550 SAT to have an equal chance of getting into an elite college as white students with a 1410 or black students with an 1100.

This research was published in a PUP book called No Longer Separate, Not Yet Equal: Race and Class in Elite College Admission and Campus Life by Thomas J. Espenshade & Alexandria Walton Radford (a free excerpt here: http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/s9072.pdf)

White people should view asians as more of a threat to their kids' chances of getting into an elite college than blacks and hispanics. I would say be careful what you wish for, but unfortunately for them, it's too late.

Again 72% of Asians have college degrees. No one is discriminating against them. They’re still going to colleges/universities. Only 43% of white hold a college degree. They’re upset that 100% of Asian students who apply to Harvard are not accepted.

I think that Asians have the right to be angry- when the bar is set so much higher than for other people, even whites.

Look, I get it. This is going to hurt everyone. But I am so tired of people saying Asians have parents that are better. You are by default also saying Blacks, Whites and Hispanics are bad parents.

But let’s be honest- calling Asians the victims because they work hard and have good parents is EXACTLY THE SAME as calling Whites, Blacks and Hispanics lazy with bad parents.

And though I haven’t gone through the whole 237 decision- I wouldn’t be surprised is something like that is actually why affirmative action was overturned today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Should have been 9-0 under our Constitution.

Should have been 9-0 under civil rights law, which says any college that gets federal funding may not discriminate based on race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol Clarence Thomas ruling against affirmative action.

Are you trying to prove a point about who benefits from affirmative action?

I believe in affirmative action. Thomas was born is 1948. He clearly benefited from affirmative action.

The trend toward greater numbers of African Americans at Yale continued, but it was not until the fall of 1964 that Yale College admitted its first substantial group of African American men. The 14 black students in the Class of 1969, and others who entered in subsequent years, organized the Black Student Alliance at Yale and worked with Yale to establish the Afro-American Studies Department in 1968 and the Afro-American Cultural Center in 1969. Today, African Americans represent about nine percent of the undergraduate student body. the end

http://archives.yalealumnimagazine.com/issues/2006_01/old_yale.html#:~:text=The%20trend%20toward%20greater%20numbers,group%20of%20African%20American%20men.


Now that he has been allowed to break through the racism that has kept blacks from accumulating family wealth he kicks the door shut. At the same time he is taking bribes to decide cases. The vast majority of blacks in this country ancestors came here before 1806 but were systematically denied opportunities allowed whites. The majority of white people who came here before 1806 were able build family wealth mainly by accumulation of land.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the ruling. The open racism
against Asian students boggled my mind. There has also been a large anti white male issue happening and now less white males even go to college than before.The differences in criteria have been unfair. You even see this in kids who grew up on same street and parents make same money but are various ethnicities. Like many things people push things until enough people say no. I do think the SAT will be gone soon because schools will look to find away around this. FWIW I always thought the SAT was also unfair because you need to spend so much money in tutoring and for every genius that doesn’t need it you have thousands more kids who need the tutoring to get over these crazy scores.

You act like the percentage of black and brown students is so high that it prevents white males from getting in. You cannot be serious.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Racist DCUMers claiming Asians students are basically all the same and all have affluence and tutoring when there are massive differences between people of South East Asian decent vs those of North East and East Asian descent. SE Asians are way more impoverished, yet they get lumped in with the stupidly broad category of 'Asian'. It's almost as if a continent with 3+ billion people is not monolithic and descendants from those areas in our country have vastly different experiences.

Good for Asians for standing up for their rights to not be judged based on their race or ridiculously offensive racial stereotypes that are used to pre-emptiveky judge their character and personality by admissions staff. It's so insane we have to argue over this. The road to hell is always paved with good intentions, but affirmative action led us down the path of using race based discrimination and ridiculous personality stereotypes of Asians to help people reject them from.admisisons and jobs just so they could reach a desired quota.

72% of Asians hold college degrees. Tell me where the discrimination is?!

Still waiting for an answer. Where is the discrimination?

Harvard applied much higher admissions standards to Asian applicants, with the lowest admission rates despite having the highest scores. Blacks, by contrast, have the lowest scores and GPAs but the highest admission rates among races. If that is not discrimination, then there is no such thing as discrimination.

How will this be policed and disclosed going forward? Can't Harvard just use some other fig leaf to get to the same result?

Absolutely. If you think diversity at Harvard is fig leaf and Harvard thinks it is important, why do you want to attend? You do not even agree with their educational mission.

The decision has a dumptruck sized loophole written right into it. The court says that: "Nothing prohibits universities from considering an applicant’s discussion of how race affected the applicant’s life, so long as that discussion is concretely tied to a quality of character or unique ability that the particular applicant can contribute to the university.” Colleges will just use the applicant essays to do this. That will further privilege wealthy minorities who know how to play this game, and disadvantage poor ones who don't.

It appears elsewhere in the ruling, "But, despite the dissent’s assertion to the contrary, universities may not simply establish through application essays or other means the regime we hold unlawful today.” I don't think that loophole is that big. " [W]hat can
not be done directly cannot be done indirectly."

Is SCOTUS going to sit in the Harvard admissions office to police whether the admissions office is making the decision based only on race, or instead based on how their race is tried to their character or ability to contribute?

No, but you can bet every bulldozer parent will now litigate every rejection from every elite school.

I wonder if admissions officers can be held personally liable in these cases. Can you imagine how much litigation this decision will result in? Universities are going to have make their decisions and policies "litigation proof". As usual, the only beneficiaries are the lawyers and consultants!

No, the admissions officers cannot be held personally liable. The universities aren't even being held "liable" in the sense of having to pay money damages. They are just being ordered to stop doing what they've been doing.

If someone rejected under a university's new admissions policies is able to prove the new admissions policies continue to discriminate by race, wouldn't the university be held liable? How would this be different than any entity held liable for racial discrimination? It seems the DEI initiatives at companies are now in the crosshairs of this type of litigation as a result of this decision. Why aren't colleges and universities?

There would have to be some statute that allowed money damages. I'm not aware of any such law. If there were, I'm sure the plaintiffs here would have included it as part of their complaint and they didn't.

Well, wasn't it legal until today? Wouldn't this now fall under any statute involving racial discrimination? I imagine there are plenty of such statutes on the books.

No it wouldn’t. The statute here is Title VI of the Civil Right Act. No money damages available.

So just criminal liability then? Yeesh, I'd probably be looking for another administrative position if I was an admissions officer right now.

Where in the world did you get that from?

PP is a dummy. No way around it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:IN MY eyes and God eys we are all the same color. why are we going to give someone more points because of their skin color?

Because in America, we decided that it was ok to discriminate against people who have different skin.

[Anonymous]

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I'm one of those Democrats who is happy to see this ruling. I'd rather see affirmative action on the basis of socioeconomic status rather than race. It would probably get you to the same conclusion rather than giving preferential treatment to UMC and UC POCs.

It doesn't get you there. California has already proven that. As a black woman, I am devasted. How do you eliminate affirmative action when merit is not real. You have many black and latino students graduated from substandard schools and white kids going to high school with golf courses. SAT scores are based on income, not intelligence.

We haven't even come to terms with race in this country.

Graduated from substandard schools, and you think admission to college will now magically make up that gap?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asian students have higher average SAT scores than any other group, including whites. A study by Princeton sociologist Thomas Espenshade examined applicants to top colleges from 1997, when the maximum SAT score was 1600 (today it’s 2400). Espenshade found that Asian-Americans needed a 1550 SAT to have an equal chance of getting into an elite college as white students with a 1410 or black students with an 1100.

This research was published in a PUP book called No Longer Separate, Not Yet Equal: Race and Class in Elite College Admission and Campus Life by Thomas J. Espenshade & Alexandria Walton Radford (a free excerpt here: http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/s9072.pdf)

White people should view asians as more of a threat to their kids' chances of getting into an elite college than blacks and hispanics. I would say be careful what you wish for, but unfortunately for them, it's too late.

Again 72% of Asians have college degrees. No one is discriminating against them. They’re still going to colleges/universities. Only 43% of white hold a college degree. They’re upset that 100% of Asian students who apply to Harvard are not accepted.

No, they’re upset because Asian students are being held to much higher standards than students of other races. Asians are also tired of having their personalities used negatively against them that is also disgustingly based on racial stereotypes.

Way to try to deflect from the true issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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I'm one of those Democrats who is happy to see this ruling. I'd rather see affirmative action on the basis of socioeconomic status rather than race. It would probably get you to the same conclusion rather than giving preferential treatment to UMC and UC POCs.

It doesn't get you there. California has already proven that. As a black woman, I am devasted. How do you eliminate affirmative action when merit is not real. You have many black and latino students graduated from substandard schools and white kids going to high school with golf courses. SAT scores are based on income, not intelligence.

We haven't even come to terms with race in this country.

Graduated from substandard schools, and you think admission to college will now magically make up that gap?

A substandard school should be illegal to begin with under the Equal Protection Clause, but the SC won't touch that one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asian students have higher average SAT scores than any other group, including whites. A study by Princeton sociologist Thomas Espenshade examined applicants to top colleges from 1997, when the maximum SAT score was 1600 (today it’s 2400). Espenshade found that Asian-Americans needed a 1550 SAT to have an equal chance of getting into an elite college as white students with a 1410 or black students with an 1100.

This research was published in a PUP book called No Longer Separate, Not Yet Equal: Race and Class in Elite College Admission and Campus Life by Thomas J. Espenshade & Alexandria Walton Radford (a free excerpt here: http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/s9072.pdf)

White people should view asians as more of a threat to their kids' chances of getting into an elite college than blacks and hispanics. I would say be careful what you wish for, but unfortunately for them, it's too late.

Again 72% of Asians have college degrees. No one is discriminating against them. They’re still going to colleges/universities. Only 43% of white hold a college degree. They’re upset that 100% of Asian students who apply to Harvard are not accepted.

No, they’re upset because Asian students are being held to much higher standards than students of other races. Asians are also tired of having their personalities used negatively against them that is also disgustingly based on racial stereotypes.

Way to try to deflect from the true issue.

Is there an "Asian personality"?