interesting discussion regarding abysmal decline of MoCo schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have worked for MCPS for a long time. I don't think MCPS has changed, but our county demographics certainly have changed. We have more newcomers with limited to no English language. We have much higher rates of poverty and trauma. Parents who are struggling to keep roofs over their heads, substance abuse, domestic violence, etc. All of these societal problems are spilling into our school buildings and quite frankly, staff are overwhelmed. It's very, very challenging to try and teach or run a building when you have a few kids in each grade-level who are consistently occupying 95% of your bandwidth. These kids didn't ask to be born into crappy conditions but they're in our schools and are having a really tough time despite the best efforts by staff to support their SEL needs.
We have to be honest with ourselves - until the parents (society) gets in a better place, we're going to continue to see the effects in our buildings. The curriculum standards have become harder with CCSS but we've lowered our expectations. Students know that there aren't any real consequences. We don't suspend students because of the school to prison pipeline. Trust me when I tell you, there are kids I would have advocated for suspension years ago but now knowing what they'd do at home, I'd rather them be safe and fed in our building. Admin are basically spending any free moment covering duties, dealing with behavior issues, etc. This gets in the way of them being able to get into classrooms to observe actual teaching and instruction.
Personally, I'm tired of schools and MCPS being blamed for all of the problems that we've created as a society. We aren't private schools - we take whoever comes to enroll and we do the best that we can with limited staff and training in trauma-informed practices.

DP. This 100%. I'm a parent with kids at a MS and HS with high FARMS rates. The staff at these schools are dealing with problems that aren't even related to academics and it doesn't help that MCPS has taken an approach to discipline that provides little to no consequences. The kids who stay out of trouble, come from stable families who prioritize education, and hang out with similar students are barely affected by this. They get good grades, join clubs and do extracurricular activities, take AP and IB classes, take full advantage of the MCPS college and career programs available to them, and will get into good colleges. Unfortunately, the ones with issues that stem from outside the school (poverty, domestic violence, etc.) are going to have a tough time regardless of the MCPS disciplinary approach. All of this is not some breaking news though. No school system can fix society's problems and while no one wants to hear this, at the end of the day- the most important factor in a child's success is their PARENTS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good discussion going on the local sub reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MontgomeryCountyMD/comments/102jg8a/parents_of_mcps_students_do_you_guys_have_a/

MCPS sound like an absolute disaster. Zero accountability. Zero standards. Rapid decline of quality. How long until people with money stop moving to this county to flee all of the progressivism ruining the schools and county? The only reason property values maintained value in MoCo was always because of the schools. The discussion going on now with messages from insiders is truly shocking. MoCo looks like it is in rapid decline and once the schools go, what reason will there be to stay?

So completely and thoroughly f'ed up. MCPS's been in rapid decline for many years. But if you say anything, then you are a racist. God help us.

LOL, I love these crocodile tears. There is ABSOLUTELY NO DECLINE. What has changed are the demographics of the county. You may have noticed. This means some things are different, but you can get a better education today than in the past.

It's not demographics. Its the curriculum, teaching style and no homework... all things we had prior to the decline

.

I think it is both. Changing demographics, increased identification of special needs, and unfunded federal mandates that trickled down to individual school budgets created a trifecta of pain for MCPS that has led to decreased enrichment opportunities (tighter sports budgets, fewer field trips, fewer learning materials--like for science labs just to note a few).

Exactly, at our school if you aren't special needs or ESOL good luck getting any attention.

Pretty sure you don't have a special ed child. Special Ed is a disaster, even discrete classrooms are overcrowded and don't have qualified teachers (long term subs in place since the start of the school year count as a warm body, and count towards the superintendent saying "we are 99% staffed," but not as qualified). I promise you, as the exhausted parent of 2 special ed children, they are not getting any attention.

My kid got zero attention or support despite an iep. It wasn’t with the paper it was written on. The excuse was they had kids with more needs. We paid a fortune privately for therapies.

MCPS would rather fight families before doing what it takes to implement the IEPs. Discrimination against students with disabilities is very real in MCPS and Dr. McKnight nor Diana Wyles have a plan to fill the vacancies or to improve Special Education in MCPS.

#fakenews

No, its not. There is a severe shortage of special ed teachers nationwide, not just in Montgomery County. Many special ed teacher positions this year are filled with long term subs and they are not qualified nor able to teach their students appropriately.

With the proliferation of this private diagnosis especially in the UMC schools that provide unlimited time on tests like SATs, there just isn't money to accommodate everyone these days and with the changes in demographics from mass immigration MCPS seems different today than 30 years ago.. However, anyone, who wants a great education it's as good as ever. Test averages may be a little different but the same opportunities exist.

Yep. I do feel for the parents whose kids have real problems that need to be addressed through IEPs but what you have to realize are so many of these UMC parents are getting private diagnoses and IEPs. The IEPs are for something minor like "my child has to sit in this particular seat during their high school classes or they won't be successful". Multiply that by x number of students with a similar IEP in a class then how many classes today - it's no wonder the teachers can't keep all the IEPs straight. Then those parents will complain the teacher isn't following the IEP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have worked for MCPS for a long time. I don't think MCPS has changed, but our county demographics certainly have changed. We have more newcomers with limited to no English language. We have much higher rates of poverty and trauma. Parents who are struggling to keep roofs over their heads, substance abuse, domestic violence, etc. All of these societal problems are spilling into our school buildings and quite frankly, staff are overwhelmed. It's very, very challenging to try and teach or run a building when you have a few kids in each grade-level who are consistently occupying 95% of your bandwidth. These kids didn't ask to be born into crappy conditions but they're in our schools and are having a really tough time despite the best efforts by staff to support their SEL needs.
We have to be honest with ourselves - until the parents (society) gets in a better place, we're going to continue to see the effects in our buildings. The curriculum standards have become harder with CCSS but we've lowered our expectations. Students know that there aren't any real consequences. We don't suspend students because of the school to prison pipeline. Trust me when I tell you, there are kids I would have advocated for suspension years ago but now knowing what they'd do at home, I'd rather them be safe and fed in our building. Admin are basically spending any free moment covering duties, dealing with behavior issues, etc. This gets in the way of them being able to get into classrooms to observe actual teaching and instruction.
Personally, I'm tired of schools and MCPS being blamed for all of the problems that we've created as a society. We aren't private schools - we take whoever comes to enroll and we do the best that we can with limited staff and training in trauma-informed practices.

DP. This 100%. I'm a parent with kids at a MS and HS with high FARMS rates. The staff at these schools are dealing with problems that aren't even related to academics and it doesn't help that MCPS has taken an approach to discipline that provides little to no consequences. The kids who stay out of trouble, come from stable families who prioritize education, and hang out with similar students are barely affected by this. They get good grades, join clubs and do extracurricular activities, take AP and IB classes, take full advantage of the MCPS college and career programs available to them, and will get into good colleges. Unfortunately, the ones with issues that stem from outside the school (poverty, domestic violence, etc.) are going to have a tough time regardless of the MCPS disciplinary approach. All of this is not some breaking news though. No school system can fix society's problems and while no one wants to hear this, at the end of the day- the most important factor in a child's success is their PARENTS.

The sentence I bolded is so true. If the parents aren't properly raising their kids and providing a poor home-life, there is only so much the schools can do. If your kid comes from a stable home and the parents prioritize education, your kid will do fine in MCPS.

[Anonymous]

When I hear people say that Arlington and MoCo are declining, what I really hear is "a public good is now being consumed by members of the public who aren't as rich and privileged as I would like." Public education is a public good. You don't get to keep the people who need it the most out. Private schools were designed for people just like you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have worked for MCPS for a long time. I don't think MCPS has changed, but our county demographics certainly have changed. We have more newcomers with limited to no English language. We have much higher rates of poverty and trauma. Parents who are struggling to keep roofs over their heads, substance abuse, domestic violence, etc. All of these societal problems are spilling into our school buildings and quite frankly, staff are overwhelmed. It's very, very challenging to try and teach or run a building when you have a few kids in each grade-level who are consistently occupying 95% of your bandwidth. These kids didn't ask to be born into crappy conditions but they're in our schools and are having a really tough time despite the best efforts by staff to support their SEL needs.
We have to be honest with ourselves - until the parents (society) gets in a better place, we're going to continue to see the effects in our buildings. The curriculum standards have become harder with CCSS but we've lowered our expectations. Students know that there aren't any real consequences. We don't suspend students because of the school to prison pipeline. Trust me when I tell you, there are kids I would have advocated for suspension years ago but now knowing what they'd do at home, I'd rather them be safe and fed in our building. Admin are basically spending any free moment covering duties, dealing with behavior issues, etc. This gets in the way of them being able to get into classrooms to observe actual teaching and instruction.
Personally, I'm tired of schools and MCPS being blamed for all of the problems that we've created as a society. We aren't private schools - we take whoever comes to enroll and we do the best that we can with limited staff and training in trauma-informed practices.

DP. This 100%. I'm a parent with kids at a MS and HS with high FARMS rates. The staff at these schools are dealing with problems that aren't even related to academics and it doesn't help that MCPS has taken an approach to discipline that provides little to no consequences. The kids who stay out of trouble, come from stable families who prioritize education, and hang out with similar students are barely affected by this. They get good grades, join clubs and do extracurricular activities, take AP and IB classes, take full advantage of the MCPS college and career programs available to them, and will get into good colleges. Unfortunately, the ones with issues that stem from outside the school (poverty, domestic violence, etc.) are going to have a tough time regardless of the MCPS disciplinary approach. All of this is not some breaking news though. No school system can fix society's problems and while no one wants to hear this, at the end of the day- the most important factor in a child's success is their PARENTS.

The sentence I bolded is so true. If the parents aren't properly raising their kids and providing a poor home-life, there is only so much the schools can do. If your kid comes from a stable home and the parents prioritize education, your kid will do fine in MCPS.

Agree no amount of money can address this and is largely why most equity initiatives range from terribly inefficient to doomed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I hear people say that Arlington and MoCo are declining, what I really hear is "a public good is now being consumed by members of the public who aren't as rich and privileged as I would like." Public education is a public good. You don't get to keep the people who need it the most out. Private schools were designed for people just like you.

Exactly, the county is more or less the same or even better today but demographics are very different than 20 years ago which presents a different set of challenges. Nevertheless, the same kid can do just as well today as twenty years ago. There are many wonderful opportunities available for anyone who is interested so this whole sky is falling narrative is trash.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good discussion going on the local sub reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MontgomeryCountyMD/comments/102jg8a/parents_of_mcps_students_do_you_guys_have_a/

MCPS sound like an absolute disaster. Zero accountability. Zero standards. Rapid decline of quality. How long until people with money stop moving to this county to flee all of the progressivism ruining the schools and county? The only reason property values maintained value in MoCo was always because of the schools. The discussion going on now with messages from insiders is truly shocking. MoCo looks like it is in rapid decline and once the schools go, what reason will there be to stay?

So completely and thoroughly f'ed up. MCPS's been in rapid decline for many years. But if you say anything, then you are a racist. God help us.

LOL, I love these crocodile tears. There is ABSOLUTELY NO DECLINE. What has changed are the demographics of the county. You may have noticed. This means some things are different, but you can get a better education today than in the past.

It's not demographics. Its the curriculum, teaching style and no homework... all things we had prior to the decline

.

I think it is both. Changing demographics, increased identification of special needs, and unfunded federal mandates that trickled down to individual school budgets created a trifecta of pain for MCPS that has led to decreased enrichment opportunities (tighter sports budgets, fewer field trips, fewer learning materials--like for science labs just to note a few).

Exactly, at our school if you aren't special needs or ESOL good luck getting any attention.

Pretty sure you don't have a special ed child. Special Ed is a disaster, even discrete classrooms are overcrowded and don't have qualified teachers (long term subs in place since the start of the school year count as a warm body, and count towards the superintendent saying "we are 99% staffed," but not as qualified). I promise you, as the exhausted parent of 2 special ed children, they are not getting any attention.

My kid got zero attention or support despite an iep. It wasn’t with the paper it was written on. The excuse was they had kids with more needs. We paid a fortune privately for therapies.

MCPS would rather fight families before doing what it takes to implement the IEPs. Discrimination against students with disabilities is very real in MCPS and Dr. McKnight nor Diana Wyles have a plan to fill the vacancies or to improve Special Education in MCPS.

#fakenews

No, its not. There is a severe shortage of special ed teachers nationwide, not just in Montgomery County. Many special ed teacher positions this year are filled with long term subs and they are not qualified nor able to teach their students appropriately.

With the proliferation of this private diagnosis especially in the UMC schools that provide unlimited time on tests like SATs, there just isn't money to accommodate everyone these days and with the changes in demographics from mass immigration MCPS seems different today than 30 years ago.. However, anyone, who wants a great education it's as good as ever. Test averages may be a little different but the same opportunities exist.

Yep. I do feel for the parents whose kids have real problems that need to be addressed through IEPs but what you have to realize are so many of these UMC parents are getting private diagnoses and IEPs. The IEPs are for something minor like "my child has to sit in this particular seat during their high school classes or they won't be successful". Multiply that by x number of students with a similar IEP in a class then how many classes today - it's no wonder the teachers can't keep all the IEPs straight. Then those parents will complain the teacher isn't following the IEP.

Some of us are trying to tell all of you, that no, it is not "as good as ever." There are structural changes being made in education that affect all kids: removing homework, deadlines and in some places, grades, choice of lesson plans, no disciplinary consequences, stress on teachers, placement of illiterate or barely literate kids in AP classes due to equity concerns or overcrowding, etc. You can fool yourself all day, but it doesn't change the reality of what is going on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good discussion going on the local sub reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MontgomeryCountyMD/comments/102jg8a/parents_of_mcps_students_do_you_guys_have_a/

MCPS sound like an absolute disaster. Zero accountability. Zero standards. Rapid decline of quality. How long until people with money stop moving to this county to flee all of the progressivism ruining the schools and county? The only reason property values maintained value in MoCo was always because of the schools. The discussion going on now with messages from insiders is truly shocking. MoCo looks like it is in rapid decline and once the schools go, what reason will there be to stay?

So completely and thoroughly f'ed up. MCPS's been in rapid decline for many years. But if you say anything, then you are a racist. God help us.

LOL, I love these crocodile tears. There is ABSOLUTELY NO DECLINE. What has changed are the demographics of the county. You may have noticed. This means some things are different, but you can get a better education today than in the past.

It's not demographics. Its the curriculum, teaching style and no homework... all things we had prior to the decline

.

I think it is both. Changing demographics, increased identification of special needs, and unfunded federal mandates that trickled down to individual school budgets created a trifecta of pain for MCPS that has led to decreased enrichment opportunities (tighter sports budgets, fewer field trips, fewer learning materials--like for science labs just to note a few).

Exactly, at our school if you aren't special needs or ESOL good luck getting any attention.

Pretty sure you don't have a special ed child. Special Ed is a disaster, even discrete classrooms are overcrowded and don't have qualified teachers (long term subs in place since the start of the school year count as a warm body, and count towards the superintendent saying "we are 99% staffed," but not as qualified). I promise you, as the exhausted parent of 2 special ed children, they are not getting any attention.

My kid got zero attention or support despite an iep. It wasn’t with the paper it was written on. The excuse was they had kids with more needs. We paid a fortune privately for therapies.

MCPS would rather fight families before doing what it takes to implement the IEPs. Discrimination against students with disabilities is very real in MCPS and Dr. McKnight nor Diana Wyles have a plan to fill the vacancies or to improve Special Education in MCPS.

#fakenews

No, its not. There is a severe shortage of special ed teachers nationwide, not just in Montgomery County. Many special ed teacher positions this year are filled with long term subs and they are not qualified nor able to teach their students appropriately.

With the proliferation of this private diagnosis especially in the UMC schools that provide unlimited time on tests like SATs, there just isn't money to accommodate everyone these days and with the changes in demographics from mass immigration MCPS seems different today than 30 years ago.. However, anyone, who wants a great education it's as good as ever. Test averages may be a little different but the same opportunities exist.

Yep. I do feel for the parents whose kids have real problems that need to be addressed through IEPs but what you have to realize are so many of these UMC parents are getting private diagnoses and IEPs. The IEPs are for something minor like "my child has to sit in this particular seat during their high school classes or they won't be successful". Multiply that by x number of students with a similar IEP in a class then how many classes today - it's no wonder the teachers can't keep all the IEPs straight. Then those parents will complain the teacher isn't following the IEP.

Some of us are trying to tell all of you, that no, it is not "as good as ever." There are structural changes being made in education that affect all kids: removing homework, deadlines and in some places, grades, choice of lesson plans, no disciplinary consequences, stress on teachers, placement of illiterate or barely literate kids in AP classes due to equity concerns or overcrowding, etc. You can fool yourself all day, but it doesn't change the reality of what is going on.

Actually it seems much better for my kids than when I was at a W 30+ years ago. However, it sounds like your kids aren't signing up for hard classes. Mine have homework, deadlines etc...Even in the past remedial math was lighter than Calc BC. You need to try and look a little deeper.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have worked for MCPS for a long time. I don't think MCPS has changed, but our county demographics certainly have changed. We have more newcomers with limited to no English language. We have much higher rates of poverty and trauma. Parents who are struggling to keep roofs over their heads, substance abuse, domestic violence, etc. All of these societal problems are spilling into our school buildings and quite frankly, staff are overwhelmed. It's very, very challenging to try and teach or run a building when you have a few kids in each grade-level who are consistently occupying 95% of your bandwidth. These kids didn't ask to be born into crappy conditions but they're in our schools and are having a really tough time despite the best efforts by staff to support their SEL needs.
We have to be honest with ourselves - until the parents (society) gets in a better place, we're going to continue to see the effects in our buildings. The curriculum standards have become harder with CCSS but we've lowered our expectations. Students know that there aren't any real consequences. We don't suspend students because of the school to prison pipeline. Trust me when I tell you, there are kids I would have advocated for suspension years ago but now knowing what they'd do at home, I'd rather them be safe and fed in our building. Admin are basically spending any free moment covering duties, dealing with behavior issues, etc. This gets in the way of them being able to get into classrooms to observe actual teaching and instruction.
Personally, I'm tired of schools and MCPS being blamed for all of the problems that we've created as a society. We aren't private schools - we take whoever comes to enroll and we do the best that we can with limited staff and training in trauma-informed practices.

DP. This 100%. I'm a parent with kids at a MS and HS with high FARMS rates. The staff at these schools are dealing with problems that aren't even related to academics and it doesn't help that MCPS has taken an approach to discipline that provides little to no consequences. The kids who stay out of trouble, come from stable families who prioritize education, and hang out with similar students are barely affected by this. They get good grades, join clubs and do extracurricular activities, take AP and IB classes, take full advantage of the MCPS college and career programs available to them, and will get into good colleges. Unfortunately, the ones with issues that stem from outside the school (poverty, domestic violence, etc.) are going to have a tough time regardless of the MCPS disciplinary approach. All of this is not some breaking news though. No school system can fix society's problems and while no one wants to hear this, at the end of the day- the most important factor in a child's success is their PARENTS.

The sentence I bolded is so true. If the parents aren't properly raising their kids and providing a poor home-life, there is only so much the schools can do. If your kid comes from a stable home and the parents prioritize education, your kid will do fine in MCPS.

I disagree that my kid will do fine. she attends a high FARMS high school. she is taking advanced classes because they are "easy". There are several kids in her classes that shouldn't be there and as a result, the teachers are slowing down the teaching and skipping important concepts. How do I know this? My kid is getting easy As in her AP classes yet doing poorly on the AP exams claiming a lot of the material on the exam was not covered. Not to mention that she always has the less advanced kids in her group projects and has to carry the weight. she just had to draft a research paper and put together a presentation with no help from her group. I saw their contributions and it was bad. very bad. I wish I could post some examples. My kid had to redo everything because in MCPS, it is a collective group grade and if she went with what her peers submitted she would have received a lot grade. Why they allow.some kids to take advanced classes is beyond me. my kids intentionally signed up for tough classes to avoid the riffraff but they are still there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have worked for MCPS for a long time. I don't think MCPS has changed, but our county demographics certainly have changed. We have more newcomers with limited to no English language. We have much higher rates of poverty and trauma. Parents who are struggling to keep roofs over their heads, substance abuse, domestic violence, etc. All of these societal problems are spilling into our school buildings and quite frankly, staff are overwhelmed. It's very, very challenging to try and teach or run a building when you have a few kids in each grade-level who are consistently occupying 95% of your bandwidth. These kids didn't ask to be born into crappy conditions but they're in our schools and are having a really tough time despite the best efforts by staff to support their SEL needs.
We have to be honest with ourselves - until the parents (society) gets in a better place, we're going to continue to see the effects in our buildings. The curriculum standards have become harder with CCSS but we've lowered our expectations. Students know that there aren't any real consequences. We don't suspend students because of the school to prison pipeline. Trust me when I tell you, there are kids I would have advocated for suspension years ago but now knowing what they'd do at home, I'd rather them be safe and fed in our building. Admin are basically spending any free moment covering duties, dealing with behavior issues, etc. This gets in the way of them being able to get into classrooms to observe actual teaching and instruction.
Personally, I'm tired of schools and MCPS being blamed for all of the problems that we've created as a society. We aren't private schools - we take whoever comes to enroll and we do the best that we can with limited staff and training in trauma-informed practices.

DP. This 100%. I'm a parent with kids at a MS and HS with high FARMS rates. The staff at these schools are dealing with problems that aren't even related to academics and it doesn't help that MCPS has taken an approach to discipline that provides little to no consequences. The kids who stay out of trouble, come from stable families who prioritize education, and hang out with similar students are barely affected by this. They get good grades, join clubs and do extracurricular activities, take AP and IB classes, take full advantage of the MCPS college and career programs available to them, and will get into good colleges. Unfortunately, the ones with issues that stem from outside the school (poverty, domestic violence, etc.) are going to have a tough time regardless of the MCPS disciplinary approach. All of this is not some breaking news though. No school system can fix society's problems and while no one wants to hear this, at the end of the day- the most important factor in a child's success is their PARENTS.

The sentence I bolded is so true. If the parents aren't properly raising their kids and providing a poor home-life, there is only so much the schools can do. If your kid comes from a stable home and the parents prioritize education, your kid will do fine in MCPS.

I disagree that my kid will do fine. she attends a high FARMS high school. she is taking advanced classes because they are "easy". There are several kids in her classes that shouldn't be there and as a result, the teachers are slowing down the teaching and skipping important concepts. How do I know this? My kid is getting easy As in her AP classes yet doing poorly on the AP exams claiming a lot of the material on the exam was not covered. Not to mention that she always has the less advanced kids in her group projects and has to carry the weight. she just had to draft a research paper and put together a presentation with no help from her group. I saw their contributions and it was bad. very bad. I wish I could post some examples. My kid had to redo everything because in MCPS, it is a collective group grade and if she went with what her peers submitted she would have received a lot grade. Why they allow.some kids to take advanced classes is beyond me. my kids intentionally signed up for tough classes to avoid the riffraff but they are still there.

I'm curious what school this is. What school allows the barely literate to take AP classes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I hear people say that Arlington and MoCo are declining, what I really hear is "a public good is now being consumed by members of the public who aren't as rich and privileged as I would like." Public education is a public good. You don't get to keep the people who need it the most out. Private schools were designed for people just like you.

Exactly, the county is more or less the same or even better today but demographics are very different than 20 years ago which presents a different set of challenges. Nevertheless, the same kid can do just as well today as twenty years ago. There are many wonderful opportunities available for anyone who is interested so this whole sky is falling narrative is trash.

It's a fiction that some people like to tell themselves to justify their preferences because they're ignoring the larger societal changes that have impacted most places today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have worked for MCPS for a long time. I don't think MCPS has changed, but our county demographics certainly have changed. We have more newcomers with limited to no English language. We have much higher rates of poverty and trauma. Parents who are struggling to keep roofs over their heads, substance abuse, domestic violence, etc. All of these societal problems are spilling into our school buildings and quite frankly, staff are overwhelmed. It's very, very challenging to try and teach or run a building when you have a few kids in each grade-level who are consistently occupying 95% of your bandwidth. These kids didn't ask to be born into crappy conditions but they're in our schools and are having a really tough time despite the best efforts by staff to support their SEL needs.
We have to be honest with ourselves - until the parents (society) gets in a better place, we're going to continue to see the effects in our buildings. The curriculum standards have become harder with CCSS but we've lowered our expectations. Students know that there aren't any real consequences. We don't suspend students because of the school to prison pipeline. Trust me when I tell you, there are kids I would have advocated for suspension years ago but now knowing what they'd do at home, I'd rather them be safe and fed in our building. Admin are basically spending any free moment covering duties, dealing with behavior issues, etc. This gets in the way of them being able to get into classrooms to observe actual teaching and instruction.
Personally, I'm tired of schools and MCPS being blamed for all of the problems that we've created as a society. We aren't private schools - we take whoever comes to enroll and we do the best that we can with limited staff and training in trauma-informed practices.

DP. This 100%. I'm a parent with kids at a MS and HS with high FARMS rates. The staff at these schools are dealing with problems that aren't even related to academics and it doesn't help that MCPS has taken an approach to discipline that provides little to no consequences. The kids who stay out of trouble, come from stable families who prioritize education, and hang out with similar students are barely affected by this. They get good grades, join clubs and do extracurricular activities, take AP and IB classes, take full advantage of the MCPS college and career programs available to them, and will get into good colleges. Unfortunately, the ones with issues that stem from outside the school (poverty, domestic violence, etc.) are going to have a tough time regardless of the MCPS disciplinary approach. All of this is not some breaking news though. No school system can fix society's problems and while no one wants to hear this, at the end of the day- the most important factor in a child's success is their PARENTS.

The sentence I bolded is so true. If the parents aren't properly raising their kids and providing a poor home-life, there is only so much the schools can do. If your kid comes from a stable home and the parents prioritize education, your kid will do fine in MCPS.

I disagree that my kid will do fine. she attends a high FARMS high school. she is taking advanced classes because they are "easy". There are several kids in her classes that shouldn't be there and as a result, the teachers are slowing down the teaching and skipping important concepts. How do I know this? My kid is getting easy As in her AP classes yet doing poorly on the AP exams claiming a lot of the material on the exam was not covered. Not to mention that she always has the less advanced kids in her group projects and has to carry the weight. she just had to draft a research paper and put together a presentation with no help from her group. I saw their contributions and it was bad. very bad. I wish I could post some examples. My kid had to redo everything because in MCPS, it is a collective group grade and if she went with what her peers submitted she would have received a lot grade. Why they allow.some kids to take advanced classes is beyond me. my kids intentionally signed up for tough classes to avoid the riffraff but they are still there.

I'm curious what school this is. What school allows the barely literate to take AP classes?

DP

Where does the PP say that the students are ‘barely literate’?

I will agree with what she is saying. My kid had that experience in 8th grade Advanced English and it was terrible.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I have worked for MCPS for a long time. I don't think MCPS has changed, but our county demographics certainly have changed. We have more newcomers with limited to no English language. We have much higher rates of poverty and trauma. Parents who are struggling to keep roofs over their heads, substance abuse, domestic violence, etc. All of these societal problems are spilling into our school buildings and quite frankly, staff are overwhelmed. It's very, very challenging to try and teach or run a building when you have a few kids in each grade-level who are consistently occupying 95% of your bandwidth. These kids didn't ask to be born into crappy conditions but they're in our schools and are having a really tough time despite the best efforts by staff to support their SEL needs.
We have to be honest with ourselves - until the parents (society) gets in a better place, we're going to continue to see the effects in our buildings. The curriculum standards have become harder with CCSS but we've lowered our expectations. Students know that there aren't any real consequences. We don't suspend students because of the school to prison pipeline. Trust me when I tell you, there are kids I would have advocated for suspension years ago but now knowing what they'd do at home, I'd rather them be safe and fed in our building. Admin are basically spending any free moment covering duties, dealing with behavior issues, etc. This gets in the way of them being able to get into classrooms to observe actual teaching and instruction.
Personally, I'm tired of schools and MCPS being blamed for all of the problems that we've created as a society. We aren't private schools - we take whoever comes to enroll and we do the best that we can with limited staff and training in trauma-informed practices.

DP. This 100%. I'm a parent with kids at a MS and HS with high FARMS rates. The staff at these schools are dealing with problems that aren't even related to academics and it doesn't help that MCPS has taken an approach to discipline that provides little to no consequences. The kids who stay out of trouble, come from stable families who prioritize education, and hang out with similar students are barely affected by this. They get good grades, join clubs and do extracurricular activities, take AP and IB classes, take full advantage of the MCPS college and career programs available to them, and will get into good colleges. Unfortunately, the ones with issues that stem from outside the school (poverty, domestic violence, etc.) are going to have a tough time regardless of the MCPS disciplinary approach. All of this is not some breaking news though. No school system can fix society's problems and while no one wants to hear this, at the end of the day- the most important factor in a child's success is their PARENTS.

The sentence I bolded is so true. If the parents aren't properly raising their kids and providing a poor home-life, there is only so much the schools can do. If your kid comes from a stable home and the parents prioritize education, your kid will do fine in MCPS.

I disagree that my kid will do fine. she attends a high FARMS high school. she is taking advanced classes because they are "easy". There are several kids in her classes that shouldn't be there and as a result, the teachers are slowing down the teaching and skipping important concepts. How do I know this? My kid is getting easy As in her AP classes yet doing poorly on the AP exams claiming a lot of the material on the exam was not covered. Not to mention that she always has the less advanced kids in her group projects and has to carry the weight. she just had to draft a research paper and put together a presentation with no help from her group. I saw their contributions and it was bad. very bad. I wish I could post some examples. My kid had to redo everything because in MCPS, it is a collective group grade and if she went with what her peers submitted she would have received a lot grade. Why they allow.some kids to take advanced classes is beyond me. my kids intentionally signed up for tough classes to avoid the riffraff but they are still there.

I'm curious what school this is. What school allows the barely literate to take AP classes?

Exactly. I'm confused about this. OUr school is looked down upon here in the DCUM land and my daughter is always saying how smart everyone in her AP classes to the point that she sometimes feels inferior to them.

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Anonymous wrote:Good discussion going on the local sub reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MontgomeryCountyMD/comments/102jg8a/parents_of_mcps_students_do_you_guys_have_a/

MCPS sound like an absolute disaster. Zero accountability. Zero standards. Rapid decline of quality. How long until people with money stop moving to this county to flee all of the progressivism ruining the schools and county? The only reason property values maintained value in MoCo was always because of the schools. The discussion going on now with messages from insiders is truly shocking. MoCo looks like it is in rapid decline and once the schools go, what reason will there be to stay?

So completely and thoroughly f'ed up. MCPS's been in rapid decline for many years. But if you say anything, then you are a racist. God help us.

LOL, I love these crocodile tears. There is ABSOLUTELY NO DECLINE. What has changed are the demographics of the county. You may have noticed. This means some things are different, but you can get a better education today than in the past.

It's not demographics. Its the curriculum, teaching style and no homework... all things we had prior to the decline

.

I think it is both. Changing demographics, increased identification of special needs, and unfunded federal mandates that trickled down to individual school budgets created a trifecta of pain for MCPS that has led to decreased enrichment opportunities (tighter sports budgets, fewer field trips, fewer learning materials--like for science labs just to note a few).

Exactly, at our school if you aren't special needs or ESOL good luck getting any attention.

Pretty sure you don't have a special ed child. Special Ed is a disaster, even discrete classrooms are overcrowded and don't have qualified teachers (long term subs in place since the start of the school year count as a warm body, and count towards the superintendent saying "we are 99% staffed," but not as qualified). I promise you, as the exhausted parent of 2 special ed children, they are not getting any attention.

My kid got zero attention or support despite an iep. It wasn’t with the paper it was written on. The excuse was they had kids with more needs. We paid a fortune privately for therapies.

MCPS would rather fight families before doing what it takes to implement the IEPs. Discrimination against students with disabilities is very real in MCPS and Dr. McKnight nor Diana Wyles have a plan to fill the vacancies or to improve Special Education in MCPS.

#fakenews

No, its not. There is a severe shortage of special ed teachers nationwide, not just in Montgomery County. Many special ed teacher positions this year are filled with long term subs and they are not qualified nor able to teach their students appropriately.

With the proliferation of this private diagnosis especially in the UMC schools that provide unlimited time on tests like SATs, there just isn't money to accommodate everyone these days and with the changes in demographics from mass immigration MCPS seems different today than 30 years ago.. However, anyone, who wants a great education it's as good as ever. Test averages may be a little different but the same opportunities exist.

Yep. I do feel for the parents whose kids have real problems that need to be addressed through IEPs but what you have to realize are so many of these UMC parents are getting private diagnoses and IEPs. The IEPs are for something minor like "my child has to sit in this particular seat during their high school classes or they won't be successful". Multiply that by x number of students with a similar IEP in a class then how many classes today - it's no wonder the teachers can't keep all the IEPs straight. Then those parents will complain the teacher isn't following the IEP.

Some of us are trying to tell all of you, that no, it is not "as good as ever." There are structural changes being made in education that affect all kids: removing homework, deadlines and in some places, grades, choice of lesson plans, no disciplinary consequences, stress on teachers, placement of illiterate or barely literate kids in AP classes due to equity concerns or overcrowding, etc. You can fool yourself all day, but it doesn't change the reality of what is going on.

Actually it seems much better for my kids than when I was at a W 30+ years ago. However, it sounds like your kids aren't signing up for hard classes. Mine have homework, deadlines etc...Even in the past remedial math was lighter than Calc BC. You need to try and look a little deeper.

Same experience here for me. Went to Rockville HS 25 years ago and the level of homework and school projects are comparatively much more difficult these days than when I was in HS. We also didn't have the same level of career/college programs that we have now. I know there are challenges today that didn't exist back then but remember that what you see in the schools is a reflection of what's happening today in society. It is what it is. At the end of the day, the kids who will do fine are the ones who take advantage of the opportunities, prioritize school, and are guided by their parents. If your kids are on this boat, you don't have to worry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have worked for MCPS for a long time. I don't think MCPS has changed, but our county demographics certainly have changed. We have more newcomers with limited to no English language. We have much higher rates of poverty and trauma. Parents who are struggling to keep roofs over their heads, substance abuse, domestic violence, etc. All of these societal problems are spilling into our school buildings and quite frankly, staff are overwhelmed. It's very, very challenging to try and teach or run a building when you have a few kids in each grade-level who are consistently occupying 95% of your bandwidth. These kids didn't ask to be born into crappy conditions but they're in our schools and are having a really tough time despite the best efforts by staff to support their SEL needs.
We have to be honest with ourselves - until the parents (society) gets in a better place, we're going to continue to see the effects in our buildings. The curriculum standards have become harder with CCSS but we've lowered our expectations. Students know that there aren't any real consequences. We don't suspend students because of the school to prison pipeline. Trust me when I tell you, there are kids I would have advocated for suspension years ago but now knowing what they'd do at home, I'd rather them be safe and fed in our building. Admin are basically spending any free moment covering duties, dealing with behavior issues, etc. This gets in the way of them being able to get into classrooms to observe actual teaching and instruction.
Personally, I'm tired of schools and MCPS being blamed for all of the problems that we've created as a society. We aren't private schools - we take whoever comes to enroll and we do the best that we can with limited staff and training in trauma-informed practices.

DP. This 100%. I'm a parent with kids at a MS and HS with high FARMS rates. The staff at these schools are dealing with problems that aren't even related to academics and it doesn't help that MCPS has taken an approach to discipline that provides little to no consequences. The kids who stay out of trouble, come from stable families who prioritize education, and hang out with similar students are barely affected by this. They get good grades, join clubs and do extracurricular activities, take AP and IB classes, take full advantage of the MCPS college and career programs available to them, and will get into good colleges. Unfortunately, the ones with issues that stem from outside the school (poverty, domestic violence, etc.) are going to have a tough time regardless of the MCPS disciplinary approach. All of this is not some breaking news though. No school system can fix society's problems and while no one wants to hear this, at the end of the day- the most important factor in a child's success is their PARENTS.

The sentence I bolded is so true. If the parents aren't properly raising their kids and providing a poor home-life, there is only so much the schools can do. If your kid comes from a stable home and the parents prioritize education, your kid will do fine in MCPS.

I disagree that my kid will do fine. she attends a high FARMS high school. she is taking advanced classes because they are "easy". There are several kids in her classes that shouldn't be there and as a result, the teachers are slowing down the teaching and skipping important concepts. How do I know this? My kid is getting easy As in her AP classes yet doing poorly on the AP exams claiming a lot of the material on the exam was not covered. Not to mention that she always has the less advanced kids in her group projects and has to carry the weight. she just had to draft a research paper and put together a presentation with no help from her group. I saw their contributions and it was bad. very bad. I wish I could post some examples. My kid had to redo everything because in MCPS, it is a collective group grade and if she went with what her peers submitted she would have received a lot grade. Why they allow.some kids to take advanced classes is beyond me. my kids intentionally signed up for tough classes to avoid the riffraff but they are still there.

I'm curious what school this is. What school allows the barely literate to take AP classes?

Blake high school AP seminar has plenty of kids that are very weak writers. I blame MCPS.