Middle school magnet results?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My oldest started Kindergarten in MCPS in 2004. There has always been more demand for these gifted/enriched magnets than spots.

If I had a magic wand:

1. Offer magnet math, magnet social studies, and magnet English at all middle schools. If there are is no cohort, kids can go to another school. Our MS curriculum is terrible. The majority of families would be happy in home MSs with a more rigorous curriculum.

2. Expand the number of seats in middle school magnet programs by adding more locations, like they have expanded the test-in HS magnet programs. With these expanded seats they can let in all the outliers (98%+ on cogat or map or whatever) and then do a lottery for everyone that is between 98% and 85% to fill the remainder of the spots. We have a ton of highly able students in this county. Let's make the pie bigger.

You are actually drawing lines between kids who scored 98 and 99 percent?

THIS EXAM IS ONE MOMENT FROM ONE DAY OF THEIR LIVES.

That’s the rub though, right? Wherever you draw the line, there will be kids who just missed it. And those kids will have parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My oldest started Kindergarten in MCPS in 2004. There has always been more demand for these gifted/enriched magnets than spots.

If I had a magic wand:

1. Offer magnet math, magnet social studies, and magnet English at all middle schools. If there are is no cohort, kids can go to another school. Our MS curriculum is terrible. The majority of families would be happy in home MSs with a more rigorous curriculum.

2. Expand the number of seats in middle school magnet programs by adding more locations, like they have expanded the test-in HS magnet programs. With these expanded seats they can let in all the outliers (98%+ on cogat or map or whatever) and then do a lottery for everyone that is between 98% and 85% to fill the remainder of the spots. We have a ton of highly able students in this county. Let's make the pie bigger.

You are actually drawing lines between kids who scored 98 and 99 percent?

THIS EXAM IS ONE MOMENT FROM ONE DAY OF THEIR LIVES.

That’s the rub though, right? Wherever you draw the line, there will be kids who just missed it. And those kids will have parents.

And that is why a lottery makes such good sense. Easy enough to see when a good student has a poor test day and when a poor student has a good test day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are roughly 2.4 million men in the United States 6 foot 4 or taller.
There are roughly 500 professional basketball players in the NBA

Using height as shorthand for ability to perform at the elite level would be foolishness... as would using a CoGAT score as shorthand for who would be best suited for a magnet program.

There is a LOT more to recruiting than just one or two descriptive statistics

Fixed it for you

Yes... but the player who is 5 foot 1 inch is not NBA material. Just as the 85% kid is NOT AS GOOD as the 99% kid. And this is not using just COGAT. Use a composite score. That's fine...MAP + COGAT + School grades. Anything but a lottery. And yes, my kid is in a magnet and had 99% scores in MAP and COGAT and straight A's and did not go to Dr Li.... and is thriving in their magnet

Muggsy Boges was 5'3" and played over 10 years in the NBA. Spud Webb was 5'7" and won the NBA dunk contest.

Naming even 20 notable short players among thousands of NBA players doesn't make your case. Math is not your strong suit for sure.

Bayes Theoram... the math works until you come across someone that refuses to even consider new information.

That someone, this evening, is you.

FACT: Being in the 99th percentile of height does not make you an ELITE basketball player.

FACT: Scoring in the 99th percentile of the CoGAT does not make you an ELITE student.

There are a LOT of tall people that can't perform at that level. And there are a LOT of 99th percentile students that can't perform in a magnet.

And there are a LOT of people "short" on those measures that can perform.


Yes, because basketball is irrelevant to the question at hand. It has no bearing on this and is a poor analogy at best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are a LOT of tall people that can't perform at that level. And there are a LOT of 99th percentile students that can't perform in a magnet.

And there are a LOT of people "short" on those measures that can perform.

Yes, because basketball is irrelevant to the question at hand. It has no bearing on this and is a poor analogy at best.

Agree and anyone who thinks pro sports is somehow similar to middle school magnet admissions has serious issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are roughly 2.4 million men in the United States 6 foot 4 or taller.
There are roughly 500 professional basketball players in the NBA

Using height as shorthand for ability to perform at the elite level would be foolishness... as would using a CoGAT score as shorthand for who would be best suited for a magnet program.

There is a LOT more to recruiting than just one or two descriptive statistics

Fixed it for you

Yes... but the player who is 5 foot 1 inch is not NBA material. Just as the 85% kid is NOT AS GOOD as the 99% kid. And this is not using just COGAT. Use a composite score. That's fine...MAP + COGAT + School grades. Anything but a lottery. And yes, my kid is in a magnet and had 99% scores in MAP and COGAT and straight A's and did not go to Dr Li.... and is thriving in their magnet

Muggsy Boges was 5'3" and played over 10 years in the NBA. Spud Webb was 5'7" and won the NBA dunk contest.

Naming even 20 notable short players among thousands of NBA players doesn't make your case. Math is not your strong suit for sure.

Bayes Theoram... the math works until you come across someone that refuses to even consider new information.

That someone, this evening, is you.

FACT: Being in the 99th percentile of height does not make you an ELITE basketball player.

FACT: Scoring in the 99th percentile of the CoGAT does not make you an ELITE student.

There are a LOT of tall people that can't perform at that level. And there are a LOT of 99th percentile students that can't perform in a magnet.

And there are a LOT of people "short" on those measures that can perform.

Yes, because basketball is irrelevant to the question at hand. It has no bearing on this and is a poor analogy at best.

Bayes theorem? What? Statistical significance is what is being discussed. Math is immune to bolding and upper case

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are a LOT of tall people that can't perform at that level. And there are a LOT of 99th percentile students that can't perform in a magnet.

And there are a LOT of people "short" on those measures that can perform.

Yes, because basketball is irrelevant to the question at hand. It has no bearing on this and is a poor analogy at best.

Agree and anyone who thinks pro sports is somehow similar to middle school magnet admissions has serious issues.

ANALOGY
a·nal·o·gy
/əˈnaləjē/

a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.
"an analogy between the workings of nature and those of human societies"

a correspondence or partial similarity.
"the syndrome is called deep dysgraphia because of its analogy to deep dyslexia"


If you don't happen to have a dictionary at home then there are several very fine freely available dictionaries on the internet. Maybe open up a new browser tab and spend a little time using one?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are a LOT of tall people that can't perform at that level. And there are a LOT of 99th percentile students that can't perform in a magnet.

And there are a LOT of people "short" on those measures that can perform.

Yes, because basketball is irrelevant to the question at hand. It has no bearing on this and is a poor analogy at best.

Agree and anyone who thinks pro sports is somehow similar to middle school magnet admissions has serious issues.

ANALOGY
a·nal·o·gy
/əˈnaləjē/

a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.
"an analogy between the workings of nature and those of human societies"

a correspondence or partial similarity.
"the syndrome is called deep dysgraphia because of its analogy to deep dyslexia"


If you don't happen to have a dictionary at home then there are several very fine freely available dictionaries on the internet. Maybe open up a new browser tab and spend a little time using one?

Oh, please give it a rest. Go post in the sports forums.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are a LOT of tall people that can't perform at that level. And there are a LOT of 99th percentile students that can't perform in a magnet.

And there are a LOT of people "short" on those measures that can perform.

Yes, because basketball is irrelevant to the question at hand. It has no bearing on this and is a poor analogy at best.

Agree and anyone who thinks pro sports is somehow similar to middle school magnet admissions has serious issues.

ANALOGY
a·nal·o·gy
/əˈnaləjē/

a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.
"an analogy between the workings of nature and those of human societies"

a correspondence or partial similarity.
"the syndrome is called deep dysgraphia because of its analogy to deep dyslexia"


If you don't happen to have a dictionary at home then there are several very fine freely available dictionaries on the internet. Maybe open up a new browser tab and spend a little time using one?

Oh, please give it a rest. Go post in the sports forums.

Ad hominem... and that is being generous

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My oldest started Kindergarten in MCPS in 2004. There has always been more demand for these gifted/enriched magnets than spots.

If I had a magic wand:

1. Offer magnet math, magnet social studies, and magnet English at all middle schools. If there are is no cohort, kids can go to another school. Our MS curriculum is terrible. The majority of families would be happy in home MSs with a more rigorous curriculum.

2. Expand the number of seats in middle school magnet programs by adding more locations, like they have expanded the test-in HS magnet programs. With these expanded seats they can let in all the outliers (98%+ on cogat or map or whatever) and then do a lottery for everyone that is between 98% and 85% to fill the remainder of the spots. We have a ton of highly able students in this county. Let's make the pie bigger.

You are actually drawing lines between kids who scored 98 and 99 percent?

THIS EXAM IS ONE MOMENT FROM ONE DAY OF THEIR LIVES.

You pick the number then. I don't personally care what the criteria are. Find a way to identify kids who are academic outliers and then let in a bunch of other kids who would benefit from the program via lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child did not attend a magnet middle school and is still the magnet IB. It's challenging and they're doing well. Having seen them go to TPMS as a non-magnet student, however, I have to say I'm not very impressed with the rigor of those classes, and I'm more than a little pissed off at what my child missed out on.

(We moved to the state too late to apply to the magnet program. It's a one and done: move in December after the cut-off? You're out.)

Example: science class, 7th grade. One homework assignment was a word finder where my child had to circle words like homestasis in a grid of letters. That was the entire assignment. They did not learn definitions for these words. Just had to circle them.

Another example: English class, 6th grade. They read the Rats if Nimh. My child read this book in third grade in DCPS.

There was a fair amount of homework, in fact, but most of it was inspired, rote, and bored my child to tears.

From what I've heard, instruction in non-magnet middle schools for advanced kids is much better.

You can teach the same book at different levels. We read The Hobbit at university in my studies on the epic class, alongside The Aeneid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My oldest started Kindergarten in MCPS in 2004. There has always been more demand for these gifted/enriched magnets than spots.

If I had a magic wand:

1. Offer magnet math, magnet social studies, and magnet English at all middle schools. If there are is no cohort, kids can go to another school. Our MS curriculum is terrible. The majority of families would be happy in home MSs with a more rigorous curriculum.

2. Expand the number of seats in middle school magnet programs by adding more locations, like they have expanded the test-in HS magnet programs. With these expanded seats they can let in all the outliers (98%+ on cogat or map or whatever) and then do a lottery for everyone that is between 98% and 85% to fill the remainder of the spots. We have a ton of highly able students in this county. Let's make the pie bigger.

You are actually drawing lines between kids who scored 98 and 99 percent?

THIS EXAM IS ONE MOMENT FROM ONE DAY OF THEIR LIVES.

You pick the number then. I don't personally care what the criteria are. Find a way to identify kids who are academic outliers and then let in a bunch of other kids who would benefit from the program via lottery.

And there's the rub. Kids excel in different ways, and that will be reflected in the measuring stick you choose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My oldest started Kindergarten in MCPS in 2004. There has always been more demand for these gifted/enriched magnets than spots.

If I had a magic wand:

1. Offer magnet math, magnet social studies, and magnet English at all middle schools. If there are is no cohort, kids can go to another school. Our MS curriculum is terrible. The majority of families would be happy in home MSs with a more rigorous curriculum.

2. Expand the number of seats in middle school magnet programs by adding more locations, like they have expanded the test-in HS magnet programs. With these expanded seats they can let in all the outliers (98%+ on cogat or map or whatever) and then do a lottery for everyone that is between 98% and 85% to fill the remainder of the spots. We have a ton of highly able students in this county. Let's make the pie bigger.

You are actually drawing lines between kids who scored 98 and 99 percent?

THIS EXAM IS ONE MOMENT FROM ONE DAY OF THEIR LIVES.

You pick the number then. I don't personally care what the criteria are. Find a way to identify kids who are academic outliers and then let in a bunch of other kids who would benefit from the program via lottery.

And there's the rub. Kids excel in different ways, and that will be reflected in the measuring stick you choose.

It would be a good point except, the program is supposed to be for kids that excel in specific ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My oldest started Kindergarten in MCPS in 2004. There has always been more demand for these gifted/enriched magnets than spots.

If I had a magic wand:

1. Offer magnet math, magnet social studies, and magnet English at all middle schools. If there are is no cohort, kids can go to another school. Our MS curriculum is terrible. The majority of families would be happy in home MSs with a more rigorous curriculum.

2. Expand the number of seats in middle school magnet programs by adding more locations, like they have expanded the test-in HS magnet programs. With these expanded seats they can let in all the outliers (98%+ on cogat or map or whatever) and then do a lottery for everyone that is between 98% and 85% to fill the remainder of the spots. We have a ton of highly able students in this county. Let's make the pie bigger.

You are actually drawing lines between kids who scored 98 and 99 percent?

THIS EXAM IS ONE MOMENT FROM ONE DAY OF THEIR LIVES.

You pick the number then. I don't personally care what the criteria are. Find a way to identify kids who are academic outliers and then let in a bunch of other kids who would benefit from the program via lottery.

And there's the rub. Kids excel in different ways, and that will be reflected in the measuring stick you choose.

It would be a good point except, the program is supposed to be for kids that excel in specific ways.

""


This +10000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My oldest started Kindergarten in MCPS in 2004. There has always been more demand for these gifted/enriched magnets than spots.

If I had a magic wand:

1. Offer magnet math, magnet social studies, and magnet English at all middle schools. If there are is no cohort, kids can go to another school. Our MS curriculum is terrible. The majority of families would be happy in home MSs with a more rigorous curriculum.

2. Expand the number of seats in middle school magnet programs by adding more locations, like they have expanded the test-in HS magnet programs. With these expanded seats they can let in all the outliers (98%+ on cogat or map or whatever) and then do a lottery for everyone that is between 98% and 85% to fill the remainder of the spots. We have a ton of highly able students in this county. Let's make the pie bigger.

You are actually drawing lines between kids who scored 98 and 99 percent?

THIS EXAM IS ONE MOMENT FROM ONE DAY OF THEIR LIVES.

You pick the number then. I don't personally care what the criteria are. Find a way to identify kids who are academic outliers and then let in a bunch of other kids who would benefit from the program via lottery.

And there's the rub. Kids excel in different ways, and that will be reflected in the measuring stick you choose.

It would be a good point except, the program is supposed to be for kids that excel in specific ways.

""


This +10000

Sure, it's true that any kid with over 85% on these tests apparently does just fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child did not attend a magnet middle school and is still the magnet IB. It's challenging and they're doing well. Having seen them go to TPMS as a non-magnet student, however, I have to say I'm not very impressed with the rigor of those classes, and I'm more than a little pissed off at what my child missed out on.

(We moved to the state too late to apply to the magnet program. It's a one and done: move in December after the cut-off? You're out.)

Example: science class, 7th grade. One homework assignment was a word finder where my child had to circle words like homestasis in a grid of letters. That was the entire assignment. They did not learn definitions for these words. Just had to circle them.

Another example: English class, 6th grade. They read the Rats if Nimh. My child read this book in third grade in DCPS.

There was a fair amount of homework, in fact, but most of it was inspired, rote, and bored my child to tears.

From what I've heard, instruction in non-magnet middle schools for advanced kids is much better.

You can teach the same book at different levels. We read The Hobbit at university in my studies on the epic class, alongside The Aeneid.

Trust me when I say they were not doing a deep exegesis of the Nimh text in sixth grade.