Any big law moms with 3 kids (or more)?

[Anonymous]

I am an associate in big law and newly pregnant with #3 (third pregnancy while at the firm). Fortunately for me - though possibly not for my career - I have been in a good spot and have not had to work crazy hours. I don't plan to become partner, and in my group government experience is pretty much required, so I know at some point in the not too distant future I will need to look elsewhere, but would like to stick it out for a little bit longer (there's a lot up in the air with DH's job). I'm not sure what exactly I am asking - maybe just for experiences of others who have had multiple pregnancies at firms (how did partners and co-workers react) and tips on navigating how to announce the third pregnancy, and how to manage the job with 3. TIA

[Anonymous]

How did you announce the first 2? Repeat. How'd you manage the first 2, repeat.

[Anonymous]

I have two, but a friend just had her fourth. I can tell you that I don't know a single woman at my firm who has three children. That doesn't mean that she doesn't exist, but I haven't met her yet. At my old firm, one friend had four, but she quit when her third was born.

In any event, I agree with PP re notice, but, to be quite honest, I take the "ignore" approach. In other words, I don't tell until it's obvious (plus, it's sort of fun to watch the older male partners squirm and try to figure out whether you are pregnant). In our firm, HR asks that you give it a certain amount of time so that it can start the paperwork, and my practice group is small, so our practice group asks for time for any absence so that it can manage workload, but were it not for those two things, I see no need to tell people immediately. No reason not to, I just take the "it's not a big deal" approach.

When you hit three, many people will think that you aren't in it for the long haul, just based on their prior experiences with associates in law firms. So be prepared for some comments, even well meaning ones that don't come out that way. Oh the stories I could tell...

I lucked out in that I had our kids at two different firms.

[Anonymous]

I have two and couldn't imagine having a third--not to say it cant be done. I have to FIGHT really hard to get the assignments and prove myself. Everyone is always fighting over work and if I am not available nights and weekends, well, there is someone else who is. So basically, it's a HUGE struggle. I love my job but it's HARD HARD HARD to keep up with the associates who dont have kids.
I would just announce it as you did with the last two and do what you would normally do. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

The women I know who have three or more (and who do it successfully - make counsel or partner) have husbands who don't work.

[Anonymous]

4 here. 2 sets of twins, so easier in terms of maternity leaves for sure. Being super organized is beyond imperative.

[Anonymous]

There are lots of people who work in big law and have three kids. If you want to make it work, talk to your husband and figure out what combination of jobs will work for your family. How do you think the men who work in big law with three kids make it work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are lots of people who work in big law and have three kids. If you want to make it work, talk to your husband and figure out what combination of jobs will work for your family. How do you think the men who work in big law with three kids make it work?

At my firm, they have stay at home wives. So I have to sort of agree with the PP that suggested it would perhaps only be doable with SAHD. I have one, another on the way, and my husband stays at home. It works for us.

[Anonymous]

The men in law firms who have three kids have wives who don't work. It's that simple. And if the wives do work, their jobs are less demanding. I'll be honest, I work much longer hours than my spouse, and I couldn't do it if we both had my job (though I wouldn't do it if he had my job). Also, no matter how great your DH is, there are things that moms end up doing. Example: child is sick-- it's 5:00 in the afternoon/evening, and DH is home. I'm at work. Phone call from DH: Child is sick, what should I do? I respond: call dr and run child over before office closes. DH: Can you call and talk to Dr?

Or scheduling playdates, ballet, parties, etc. I do all of it. My DH is super helpful, but he just doesn't think to do so, and he isn't going to spend time emailing the moms of other kids to set up play dates. So there are things that disproportionately fall on women in many (not all, but many) situations.

On the bright side, what many law firms provide is flexibility. I may not be home for dinner, but I go on field trips, see school plays, attend recitals -- every single one to date minus one. Since I'm billing an hour, I make up that time in the evenings and on the weekends. It isn't ideal, but it works for me. I've also established myself as being flexible and willing to work whenever. To this end, I always read my blackberry. Always, always, always. If someone emails me on Saturday, I read it and respond, even if it is to acknowlege. I have my work phone forwarded to my cell, and I answer it. I keep pen and paper in my car. I don't take time for lunch, and I buy everything (and I mean everything) online. I don't complain. I am constructive: "I'd really like to work on x, y, z, and I'm a great fit because..."

I also have an amazing nanny. I couldn't do it without her.

[Anonymous]

This is depressing, but the best piece of advice is to hire another nanny (or two.).

[Anonymous]

I know a female partner at a big law firm who has three kids. Her husband works full-time at a (bit) less demanding job. They have a lot of help on the domestic front. Full-tme nanny/housekeeper, part-time personal manager, and one set of grandparents who are local and are very helpful in ferrying the kids after school and on the weekends. The answer is lots of outside help.

[Anonymous]

I've seen it done with a husband who has a very flexible job or multiple nannies if DH also has a demanding job.

All of the men at my former firm who had more 3 or more children had SAH wives. I threw in the towel when we hit 3 and I was a partner.

You mention the possibility of going to government, which can give you more flexibility if you research your new shop very carefully. One thing that I saw in considering that switch was that I was going to have to be in the office more in the government, which meant upping the nanny's hours, and taking a HUGE pay cut. Budget accordingly.

Best of luck! It can be done if you want to do it.

[Anonymous]

I'm shocked by these posts, but in a good way. I was not treated well when I announced only one pregnancy at my firm. I went back recently and it's obvious that they want me out. The attitude seems to be that I got a paid vacation and that it's "not fair" in general and to other associates who have not had the same time off. Has no one else had this experience?

[Anonymous]

it's "not fair" in general and to other associates who have not had the same time off.

Well. Does the firm offer as a benefit the same number of weeks off, paid, for childless associates to explore personal development? Care of a relative? Paternity leave? Four months off, paid, to do a community service project of the childless associate's choice?

My guess is probably not.

I say this as a mother, who actually supports maternity leave though it doesn't sound like it. But let's not pretend that it feels super fair to those who don't get that benefit and never will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm shocked by these posts, but in a good way. I was not treated well when I announced only one pregnancy at my firm. I went back recently and it's obvious that they want me out. The attitude seems to be that I got a paid vacation and that it's "not fair" in general and to other associates who have not had the same time off. Has no one else had this experience?

Part of the problem may be the very generous maternity benefits that law firms give. My firm gives six months paid leave. It was great for me and I took every day I was entitled to, as does every woman at my firm. However, I am not blind to the fact that with two kids, I got a year of paid leave that others didn't get, including all the men at my firm with two kids. Couple that with the fact that many, many women at my firm take the six months paid and then don't come back to work and you have a recipe for some well-deserved resentment.

I think that the woman can diffuse some of this by being a team player while on maternity leave (checking blackberry and responding to e-mails when it is helpful, etc.) and being a real team player when she returns. That is what I did and I have an associate who had a baby last year and has transited back seamlessly. The ones who have met resistance are the ones who come back and make extra demands about their schedule, don't seem like a team player, don't seem like they are committed to their practice long term. I would also point out that myself and my associate who came back without a problem both have nannies and husbands with government jobs with very predictable 40 hr/ week schedules, so childcare headaches are largely not ours to handle. This flexibility is true of most of the wives of the men at my firm with kids as well and I don't think it is fair when big law women don't realize that their families have to make the same tradeoffs and compromises that men in big law make. Either hire an army of help or have one parent take the lead at home by staying at home or having a less demanding job.