War with Iran

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

You and your children are free to put on the uniform, sign up, and pay that ultimate price. How many of your Iranian family members are signing up?

They would never sign up. The price of American soldier blood is very cheap to them.
Why should Americans die to give another country freedom to wave pride flags and dress in bikinis? It’s things they don’t even want yet we are supposed to impose it on them. Who even cares?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I hope they succeed in disrupting oil prices. Just maybe the USA will come into the 21st century and begin to really, really invest in renewables and more hybrid/electric vehicles. As log as oil is cheap, we will continue with these unnecessary wars in the ME.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

For once Americans are finally thinking “those six kids could be my kids.” That’s what it means to be part of a united nation.

Our kids can’t be cannon fodder for the sake of the Iranian people. Sorry.

Cannon fodder?

Ridiculous. More died in car accidents and from overdoses yesterday than in this conflict.

Odds of significant numbers of US casualties = 0.

Do you want to call the parents and children of the dead to let them know when they're significant?

I will, if you’ll call the families of the thousands previously killed by Iran and its proxies and explain why you are an apologist for the mullahs.

Oh please. You’re going back 50+ years, you MAGA mouth breather. I’m sure you’re the same person swearing here 1.5 years ago that you were VoTINg fOR TRump BEcaUSe hE wON’t StARt a WaR!

I despise Trump.But I’m not going to allow my loathing of him affect how I view issues.

And no, I’m not going back 50+ years (though one could). Exactly who do you think funded and trained Iraq’s Shia militias and designed and provided IEDs, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of Americans?

Hint: starts with an “I” ends with an “n”.

And why exactly do you think that the Gulf States, Germany, Australia, Canada, Britain, etc., etc. all want this Iranian regime gone?

Hint: it’s not bc they are Trump fans.

As a previous poster said, two things can be true at the same time: Trump’s an idiot and the end of the Iranian regime is good for the region and the world.

You know what would be even better for the world? Getting rid of Trump as US president. Between the chaos of his tariffs, his dismantling of the post-war alliance, his threatening of neighbor countries, his willingness to take bribes from other countries, his shooting of US protestors and foreign boats, is more destabilizing to the world order than the Ayatollah ever was.

PP here. I’m in favor of both. Let’s get rid of Trump and the Iranian regime.

DP. How, exactly, do you propose to get rid or the Iranian regime? That is the burning question right now. Everyone would like to know the answer. Let's hear it--what's the plan?

I misplaced my invite to CentCom, so am afraid I can’t give you a definitive answer.

But if I had to guess, I’d surmise that the calculation goes something like this:

1. Destabilize Iranian military and political leadership, creating as much instability as possible.

2. Empower and arm opposition, hoping that they depose leadership.

3. Destroy Iran’s force projection capability entirely.

Best case: 1&2 work and you get a new regime.

Worst case: regime survives, but is defanged and cowed. Iran’s military capabilities destroyed and created a massive deterrent against future Iranian adventurism in the region.

Actual worst case (in my opinion): failed state or suicidal regime willing to engage in global terrorism to exact revenge.

DP. I think the bolded is both the the worst case scenario and one of the most likely scenarios. It become Libya or Syria. The failed state ends up hosting terrorist groups that present a continued (if different in kind) threat to other countries in the region and lots of Iranians suffer and die in the ensuing violence.

PP.

Agreed. I think this action was a grave mistake, but certainly hope that it succeeds. I can understand those who disagree on the former, but not excuse those who disagree on the latter.

I don't see anyone "hoping" the war is a failure. I see people wanting to end the war before more people die, which isn't the same thing at all.

We see different things. Many, many here are hoping the US fails, either bc they hate Trump or bc they hate Israel (or both).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

You pipe down. We don't want our kids in this fight.

You people don't get it, do you. The Islamist terrorist rot that this regime spreads will come for you too. Just look at the state of this thread. It's page after page after page of antisemitic, anti-Western propaganda talking points. This regime has murdered Americans on American soil. It has murdered Americans abroad. It will continue to murder Americans and threaten American interests until it is stopped. And if it gets nukes - it cannot be stopped.

So worth it to forgo cancer research for American children for this? Reasonable to take away healthcare subsidies for Americans for this?

If it succeeds? Certainly.

How will we know when it’s succeeded? Will there be a Mission Accomplished banner?

Exactly. We have seen this movie before and we don't like it.

Yup and sequels are always worse.
From an expert:

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

You pipe down. We don't want our kids in this fight.

You people don't get it, do you. The Islamist terrorist rot that this regime spreads will come for you too. Just look at the state of this thread. It's page after page after page of antisemitic, anti-Western propaganda talking points. This regime has murdered Americans on American soil. It has murdered Americans abroad. It will continue to murder Americans and threaten American interests until it is stopped. And if it gets nukes - it cannot be stopped.

So worth it to forgo cancer research for American children for this? Reasonable to take away healthcare subsidies for Americans for this?

If it succeeds? Certainly.

You can’t even get regime change in Gaza . It took 10 years to get regime change in Syria. How are they going to get regime change in Iran? Trump is notoriously impatient. Within a few weeks or less, he’s going to want this wrap this up and move on.

Rather different situation, right?

Iran is a functioning (ish) nation with organized opposition. Leadership can’t just disappear into tunnels (unlike Gaza). If they do, country will cease functioning and opposition will take control.

Do you hear yourself? Tunnels? All of the trillions in the best Us bombs and Israel can’t take out tunnels built by Gazans? That says alot. It says they don’t know how to fight.

Keep in mind in Vietnam the Us won every single battle. Every single one. Same in Afghanistan. However,
The regime change did not happen because the people did not want it. The people wanted communism and the people wanted the Taliban. Who are we to impose our ideals and values where they are not needed?

You’re literally making things up.

The people wanted the Taliban? The people wanted the Vietcong?

Historically totally inaccurate. Both were repressive regimes that maintained power through force. Note the lack of open elections once they acquired power.

They don’t need an election. The people saw what the Americans did and out of spite, decided to join the anti American side. War does not win people over to your side of
Thinking. Do you really think the Iranians losing relatives and their homes right now are going to support a puppet (like the shah’s son) if we install him there?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

For once Americans are finally thinking “those six kids could be my kids.” That’s what it means to be part of a united nation.

Our kids can’t be cannon fodder for the sake of the Iranian people. Sorry.

Cannon fodder?

Ridiculous. More died in car accidents and from overdoses yesterday than in this conflict.

Odds of significant numbers of US casualties = 0.

Do you want to call the parents and children of the dead to let them know when they're significant?

I will, if you’ll call the families of the thousands previously killed by Iran and its proxies and explain why you are an apologist for the mullahs.

Oh please. You’re going back 50+ years, you MAGA mouth breather. I’m sure you’re the same person swearing here 1.5 years ago that you were VoTINg fOR TRump BEcaUSe hE wON’t StARt a WaR!

I despise Trump.But I’m not going to allow my loathing of him affect how I view issues.

And no, I’m not going back 50+ years (though one could). Exactly who do you think funded and trained Iraq’s Shia militias and designed and provided IEDs, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of Americans?

Hint: starts with an “I” ends with an “n”.

And why exactly do you think that the Gulf States, Germany, Australia, Canada, Britain, etc., etc. all want this Iranian regime gone?

Hint: it’s not bc they are Trump fans.

As a previous poster said, two things can be true at the same time: Trump’s an idiot and the end of the Iranian regime is good for the region and the world.

You know what would be even better for the world? Getting rid of Trump as US president. Between the chaos of his tariffs, his dismantling of the post-war alliance, his threatening of neighbor countries, his willingness to take bribes from other countries, his shooting of US protestors and foreign boats, is more destabilizing to the world order than the Ayatollah ever was.

PP here. I’m in favor of both. Let’s get rid of Trump and the Iranian regime.

DP. How, exactly, do you propose to get rid or the Iranian regime? That is the burning question right now. Everyone would like to know the answer. Let's hear it--what's the plan?

I misplaced my invite to CentCom, so am afraid I can’t give you a definitive answer.

But if I had to guess, I’d surmise that the calculation goes something like this:

1. Destabilize Iranian military and political leadership, creating as much instability as possible.

2. Empower and arm opposition, hoping that they depose leadership.

3. Destroy Iran’s force projection capability entirely.

Best case: 1&2 work and you get a new regime.

Worst case: regime survives, but is defanged and cowed. Iran’s military capabilities destroyed and created a massive deterrent against future Iranian adventurism in the region.

Actual worst case (in my opinion): failed state or suicidal regime willing to engage in global terrorism to exact revenge.

DP. I think the bolded is both the the worst case scenario and one of the most likely scenarios. It become Libya or Syria. The failed state ends up hosting terrorist groups that present a continued (if different in kind) threat to other countries in the region and lots of Iranians suffer and die in the ensuing violence.

PP.

Agreed. I think this action was a grave mistake, but certainly hope that it succeeds. I can understand those who disagree on the former, but not excuse those who disagree on the latter.

I don't see anyone "hoping" the war is a failure. I see people wanting to end the war before more people die, which isn't the same thing at all.

We see different things. Many, many here are hoping the US fails, either bc they hate Trump or bc they hate Israel (or both).

Nobody here even knows what success looks like because the administration doesn't even know. They're just winging it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

For once Americans are finally thinking “those six kids could be my kids.” That’s what it means to be part of a united nation.

Our kids can’t be cannon fodder for the sake of the Iranian people. Sorry.

Cannon fodder?

Ridiculous. More died in car accidents and from overdoses yesterday than in this conflict.

Odds of significant numbers of US casualties = 0.

Do you want to call the parents and children of the dead to let them know when they're significant?

I will, if you’ll call the families of the thousands previously killed by Iran and its proxies and explain why you are an apologist for the mullahs.

Oh please. You’re going back 50+ years, you MAGA mouth breather. I’m sure you’re the same person swearing here 1.5 years ago that you were VoTINg fOR TRump BEcaUSe hE wON’t StARt a WaR!

I despise Trump.But I’m not going to allow my loathing of him affect how I view issues.

And no, I’m not going back 50+ years (though one could). Exactly who do you think funded and trained Iraq’s Shia militias and designed and provided IEDs, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of Americans?

Hint: starts with an “I” ends with an “n”.

And why exactly do you think that the Gulf States, Germany, Australia, Canada, Britain, etc., etc. all want this Iranian regime gone?

Hint: it’s not bc they are Trump fans.

As a previous poster said, two things can be true at the same time: Trump’s an idiot and the end of the Iranian regime is good for the region and the world.

You know what would be even better for the world? Getting rid of Trump as US president. Between the chaos of his tariffs, his dismantling of the post-war alliance, his threatening of neighbor countries, his willingness to take bribes from other countries, his shooting of US protestors and foreign boats, is more destabilizing to the world order than the Ayatollah ever was.

PP here. I’m in favor of both. Let’s get rid of Trump and the Iranian regime.

DP. How, exactly, do you propose to get rid or the Iranian regime? That is the burning question right now. Everyone would like to know the answer. Let's hear it--what's the plan?

I misplaced my invite to CentCom, so am afraid I can’t give you a definitive answer.

But if I had to guess, I’d surmise that the calculation goes something like this:

1. Destabilize Iranian military and political leadership, creating as much instability as possible.

2. Empower and arm opposition, hoping that they depose leadership.

3. Destroy Iran’s force projection capability entirely.

Best case: 1&2 work and you get a new regime.

Worst case: regime survives, but is defanged and cowed. Iran’s military capabilities destroyed and created a massive deterrent against future Iranian adventurism in the region.

Actual worst case (in my opinion): failed state or suicidal regime willing to engage in global terrorism to exact revenge.

DP. I think the bolded is both the the worst case scenario and one of the most likely scenarios. It become Libya or Syria. The failed state ends up hosting terrorist groups that present a continued (if different in kind) threat to other countries in the region and lots of Iranians suffer and die in the ensuing violence.

PP.

Agreed. I think this action was a grave mistake, but certainly hope that it succeeds. I can understand those who disagree on the former, but not excuse those who disagree on the latter.

I don't see anyone "hoping" the war is a failure. I see people wanting to end the war before more people die, which isn't the same thing at all.

We see different things. Many, many here are hoping the US fails, either bc they hate Trump or bc they hate Israel (or both).

DP. Again, without knowing what success looks like, or what the goal was, I don’t even know how to define failure, so I’m certainly not hoping for it.

In my mind, we’ve already failed gravely. I want them succeed in reversing the failures, but I don’t what that means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

For once Americans are finally thinking “those six kids could be my kids.” That’s what it means to be part of a united nation.

Our kids can’t be cannon fodder for the sake of the Iranian people. Sorry.

Cannon fodder?

Ridiculous. More died in car accidents and from overdoses yesterday than in this conflict.

Odds of significant numbers of US casualties = 0.

Do you want to call the parents and children of the dead to let them know when they're significant?

I will, if you’ll call the families of the thousands previously killed by Iran and its proxies and explain why you are an apologist for the mullahs.

Oh please. You’re going back 50+ years, you MAGA mouth breather. I’m sure you’re the same person swearing here 1.5 years ago that you were VoTINg fOR TRump BEcaUSe hE wON’t StARt a WaR!

I despise Trump.But I’m not going to allow my loathing of him affect how I view issues.

And no, I’m not going back 50+ years (though one could). Exactly who do you think funded and trained Iraq’s Shia militias and designed and provided IEDs, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of Americans?

Hint: starts with an “I” ends with an “n”.

And why exactly do you think that the Gulf States, Germany, Australia, Canada, Britain, etc., etc. all want this Iranian regime gone?

Hint: it’s not bc they are Trump fans.

As a previous poster said, two things can be true at the same time: Trump’s an idiot and the end of the Iranian regime is good for the region and the world.

You know what would be even better for the world? Getting rid of Trump as US president. Between the chaos of his tariffs, his dismantling of the post-war alliance, his threatening of neighbor countries, his willingness to take bribes from other countries, his shooting of US protestors and foreign boats, is more destabilizing to the world order than the Ayatollah ever was.

PP here. I’m in favor of both. Let’s get rid of Trump and the Iranian regime.

DP. How, exactly, do you propose to get rid or the Iranian regime? That is the burning question right now. Everyone would like to know the answer. Let's hear it--what's the plan?

I misplaced my invite to CentCom, so am afraid I can’t give you a definitive answer.

But if I had to guess, I’d surmise that the calculation goes something like this:

1. Destabilize Iranian military and political leadership, creating as much instability as possible.

2. Empower and arm opposition, hoping that they depose leadership.

3. Destroy Iran’s force projection capability entirely.

Best case: 1&2 work and you get a new regime.

Worst case: regime survives, but is defanged and cowed. Iran’s military capabilities destroyed and created a massive deterrent against future Iranian adventurism in the region.

Actual worst case (in my opinion): failed state or suicidal regime willing to engage in global terrorism to exact revenge.

DP. I think the bolded is both the the worst case scenario and one of the most likely scenarios. It become Libya or Syria. The failed state ends up hosting terrorist groups that present a continued (if different in kind) threat to other countries in the region and lots of Iranians suffer and die in the ensuing violence.

PP.

Agreed. I think this action was a grave mistake, but certainly hope that it succeeds. I can understand those who disagree on the former, but not excuse those who disagree on the latter.

I don't see anyone "hoping" the war is a failure. I see people wanting to end the war before more people die, which isn't the same thing at all.

We see different things. Many, many here are hoping the US fails, either bc they hate Trump or bc they hate Israel (or both).

You're seeing what you want to see. It's not reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

You pipe down. We don't want our kids in this fight.

You people don't get it, do you. The Islamist terrorist rot that this regime spreads will come for you too. Just look at the state of this thread. It's page after page after page of antisemitic, anti-Western propaganda talking points. This regime has murdered Americans on American soil. It has murdered Americans abroad. It will continue to murder Americans and threaten American interests until it is stopped. And if it gets nukes - it cannot be stopped.

YOU don’t get it if you think the Trump administration is acting in the best interests of the Iranian people. Trump has literally said that his model for Iran is the same one as for Venezuela – –get rid of the head of the regime and then find a new leader from the same regime that is more amenable to US control.

Are you an American? Why do you think this is a bad thing? I hate Trump and MAGA, but the reflexive anti-Americanism here is wild.

Yes, I'm an American. What's "reflexively anti-American" about what I said? Trump started a war (or let himself be led into one) that does not include a coherent plan for what comes AFTER the strategic bombings.

Don't believe me. Read if for yourself. Here is a gift link to an article in the NYT where Trump muses about the possible ways this war could end. https://www.nytimes.com/2026/03/01/us/politics/trump-iran-war-interview.html?unlocked_article_code=1.Q1A.yZg2.S6fO7L36nXet&smid=url-share

Some highlights from the article:

"In a brief telephone interview with The New York Times, Mr. Trump offered several seemingly contradictory visions of how power might be transferred to a new government — or even whether the existing Iranian power structure would run that government or be overthrown."

These are the what-comes-after scenarios he mused about:

1) "Among the options he suggested was an outcome similar to what he engineered in Venezuela, in which only the top leader was removed during an American military strike and much of the rest of the government remained in place, but newly willing to work pragmatically with the United States."

2) "When pressed on his plans for a transition of power, Mr. Trump said he hoped Iran’s elite military forces — including hardened officers of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps who have held substantial influence and profited from the existing regime — would simply turn over their weapons to the Iranian populace.

3) But then he described a scenario in which the Iranian people would overthrow the existing government.

“That’s going to be up to them about whether or not they do,” Mr. Trump said. “They’ve been talking about it for years so now they’ll obviously have an opportunity.” That would, of course, be the opposite of the Venezuela model that he had said minutes earlier he wanted to replicate.

+1 And there is no Delcy Rodriguez in Iran.

[Anonymous]

Looks like Israel is going to invade Beirut. Wonder how many people will be killed. Stay away for hospitals and elementary schools!

“ Live: Beirut plunged into chaos after Israel demands ‘evacuation’ of southern suburb Roads out of Beirut’s densely packed southern suburb were choked with traffic Thursday after the Israeli military told residents to leave their homes or risk losing their lives. Israel's far-right Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich warned that the suburb of Dahiyeh, a Hezbollah stronghold, would soon share the fate of the devastated Gaza city of Khan Younis. Follow our liveblog for the latest updates”
https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20260305-iran-launches-missiles-at-israel-as-middle-east-conflict-escalates

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

For once Americans are finally thinking “those six kids could be my kids.” That’s what it means to be part of a united nation.

Our kids can’t be cannon fodder for the sake of the Iranian people. Sorry.

Cannon fodder?

Ridiculous. More died in car accidents and from overdoses yesterday than in this conflict.

Odds of significant numbers of US casualties = 0.

Do you want to call the parents and children of the dead to let them know when they're significant?

I will, if you’ll call the families of the thousands previously killed by Iran and its proxies and explain why you are an apologist for the mullahs.

Oh please. You’re going back 50+ years, you MAGA mouth breather. I’m sure you’re the same person swearing here 1.5 years ago that you were VoTINg fOR TRump BEcaUSe hE wON’t StARt a WaR!

I despise Trump.But I’m not going to allow my loathing of him affect how I view issues.

And no, I’m not going back 50+ years (though one could). Exactly who do you think funded and trained Iraq’s Shia militias and designed and provided IEDs, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of Americans?

Hint: starts with an “I” ends with an “n”.

And why exactly do you think that the Gulf States, Germany, Australia, Canada, Britain, etc., etc. all want this Iranian regime gone?

Hint: it’s not bc they are Trump fans.

As a previous poster said, two things can be true at the same time: Trump’s an idiot and the end of the Iranian regime is good for the region and the world.

You know what would be even better for the world? Getting rid of Trump as US president. Between the chaos of his tariffs, his dismantling of the post-war alliance, his threatening of neighbor countries, his willingness to take bribes from other countries, his shooting of US protestors and foreign boats, is more destabilizing to the world order than the Ayatollah ever was.

PP here. I’m in favor of both. Let’s get rid of Trump and the Iranian regime.

DP. How, exactly, do you propose to get rid or the Iranian regime? That is the burning question right now. Everyone would like to know the answer. Let's hear it--what's the plan?

I misplaced my invite to CentCom, so am afraid I can’t give you a definitive answer.

But if I had to guess, I’d surmise that the calculation goes something like this:

1. Destabilize Iranian military and political leadership, creating as much instability as possible.

2. Empower and arm opposition, hoping that they depose leadership.

3. Destroy Iran’s force projection capability entirely.

Best case: 1&2 work and you get a new regime.

Worst case: regime survives, but is defanged and cowed. Iran’s military capabilities destroyed and created a massive deterrent against future Iranian adventurism in the region.

Actual worst case (in my opinion): failed state or suicidal regime willing to engage in global terrorism to exact revenge.

DP. I think the bolded is both the the worst case scenario and one of the most likely scenarios. It become Libya or Syria. The failed state ends up hosting terrorist groups that present a continued (if different in kind) threat to other countries in the region and lots of Iranians suffer and die in the ensuing violence.

PP.

Agreed. I think this action was a grave mistake, but certainly hope that it succeeds. I can understand those who disagree on the former, but not excuse those who disagree on the latter.

I don't see anyone "hoping" the war is a failure. I see people wanting to end the war before more people die, which isn't the same thing at all.

We see different things. Many, many here are hoping the US fails, either bc they hate Trump or bc they hate Israel (or both).

DP. How are you defining "failure"? Or, more specifically, ho do you think the "many" who hope that "the US fails" define failure?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

You're allowed to define your experiences. That doesn't mean you get to sign my kids up to die in your war. Six people is too many. If you'd like to die fighting the Iranian regime, no one is going to stop you.

This is simply TDS and delusions about Israel.

Why don’t people understand there are a lot of Dems who are ACTUALLY peaceniks? Who protested the Iraq war. Who protested Gaza because it was clear it went way beyond strategy. Women and children suffer in war. Soldiers die for interests that aren’t always clear. There is nothing good about it.

The irony being that Trump was supposed to be a master negotiator who would keep us out of war. He is a destabilizing force.

I will never forget during the first republican debate with the clown car circus of 20 candidates Trump received applause and boos when he slammed Jeb Bush over the Iraq war being a mistake and a lie. After that debate, his lead widened esp among independents. People forget part of the reason Trump won the republican nomination is because he told
The truth about Iraq. The other republicans liked to pretend George w bush didn’t exist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

For once Americans are finally thinking “those six kids could be my kids.” That’s what it means to be part of a united nation.

Our kids can’t be cannon fodder for the sake of the Iranian people. Sorry.

Cannon fodder?

Ridiculous. More died in car accidents and from overdoses yesterday than in this conflict.

Odds of significant numbers of US casualties = 0.

Do you want to call the parents and children of the dead to let them know when they're significant?

I will, if you’ll call the families of the thousands previously killed by Iran and its proxies and explain why you are an apologist for the mullahs.

Oh please. You’re going back 50+ years, you MAGA mouth breather. I’m sure you’re the same person swearing here 1.5 years ago that you were VoTINg fOR TRump BEcaUSe hE wON’t StARt a WaR!

I despise Trump.But I’m not going to allow my loathing of him affect how I view issues.

And no, I’m not going back 50+ years (though one could). Exactly who do you think funded and trained Iraq’s Shia militias and designed and provided IEDs, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of Americans?

Hint: starts with an “I” ends with an “n”.

And why exactly do you think that the Gulf States, Germany, Australia, Canada, Britain, etc., etc. all want this Iranian regime gone?

Hint: it’s not bc they are Trump fans.

As a previous poster said, two things can be true at the same time: Trump’s an idiot and the end of the Iranian regime is good for the region and the world.

DP. But when an idiot is the one leading the regime change, it’s really not good for anyone.

+1 It’s a recipe for a failed state and a refugee crisis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

If this is genuine then I do appreciate what you're saying. I also remember Iraqi expats saying the same thing about Saddam immediately before and after the overthrow of his regime. And then we put boots on the ground. Be careful what you wish for when it comes to the US military.

I understand the natural skepticism on the part of Americans given their history in Iraq/Afghanistan. I really do. But Iran is not Iraq. First and foremost, Trump does not have the appetite or frankly the political capital for a military occupation. That is not the goal here. Furthermore, Khamenei was killed on DAY ONE of this conflict, and there has been much faster destruction of Iran's air defenses and missile forces. And most significantly - the sporadic, small-scale celebrations of Saddam's overthrow (hundreds to at most thousands of people) are absolutely not comparable to the enormous, major, nationwide protests that just took place in Iran. An estimated FIVE MILLION people took to the streets. Upwards of 80% of Iranians hate this regime and want it gone.

The skepticism is further compounded by the fact we have a mercurial president seemingly operating purely on his 'gut' and what the last person he spoke to said. He has surrounded himself with sycophants, frauds, cosplayers, and incompetent people. Whichever competent people he is surrounded with have to waste time and energy battling stupidity and malfeasance. Instead of the chairman of the joint chiefs delivering confident remarks to the world and American people, we're stuck with people like Hegseth. When there is communication it is poor, defensive, and not reassuring at all.

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Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

For once Americans are finally thinking “those six kids could be my kids.” That’s what it means to be part of a united nation.

Our kids can’t be cannon fodder for the sake of the Iranian people. Sorry.

Cannon fodder?

Ridiculous. More died in car accidents and from overdoses yesterday than in this conflict.

Odds of significant numbers of US casualties = 0.

Do you want to call the parents and children of the dead to let them know when they're significant?

I will, if you’ll call the families of the thousands previously killed by Iran and its proxies and explain why you are an apologist for the mullahs.

Oh please. You’re going back 50+ years, you MAGA mouth breather. I’m sure you’re the same person swearing here 1.5 years ago that you were VoTINg fOR TRump BEcaUSe hE wON’t StARt a WaR!

I despise Trump.But I’m not going to allow my loathing of him affect how I view issues.

And no, I’m not going back 50+ years (though one could). Exactly who do you think funded and trained Iraq’s Shia militias and designed and provided IEDs, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of Americans?

Hint: starts with an “I” ends with an “n”.

And why exactly do you think that the Gulf States, Germany, Australia, Canada, Britain, etc., etc. all want this Iranian regime gone?

Hint: it’s not bc they are Trump fans.

As a previous poster said, two things can be true at the same time: Trump’s an idiot and the end of the Iranian regime is good for the region and the world.

You know what would be even better for the world? Getting rid of Trump as US president. Between the chaos of his tariffs, his dismantling of the post-war alliance, his threatening of neighbor countries, his willingness to take bribes from other countries, his shooting of US protestors and foreign boats, is more destabilizing to the world order than the Ayatollah ever was.

PP here. I’m in favor of both. Let’s get rid of Trump and the Iranian regime.

DP. How, exactly, do you propose to get rid or the Iranian regime? That is the burning question right now. Everyone would like to know the answer. Let's hear it--what's the plan?

I misplaced my invite to CentCom, so am afraid I can’t give you a definitive answer.

But if I had to guess, I’d surmise that the calculation goes something like this:

1. Destabilize Iranian military and political leadership, creating as much instability as possible.

2. Empower and arm opposition, hoping that they depose leadership.

3. Destroy Iran’s force projection capability entirely.

Best case: 1&2 work and you get a new regime.

Worst case: regime survives, but is defanged and cowed. Iran’s military capabilities destroyed and created a massive deterrent against future Iranian adventurism in the region.

Actual worst case (in my opinion): failed state or suicidal regime willing to engage in global terrorism to exact revenge.

DP. I think the bolded is both the the worst case scenario and one of the most likely scenarios. It become Libya or Syria. The failed state ends up hosting terrorist groups that present a continued (if different in kind) threat to other countries in the region and lots of Iranians suffer and die in the ensuing violence.

PP.

Agreed. I think this action was a grave mistake, but certainly hope that it succeeds. I can understand those who disagree on the former, but not excuse those who disagree on the latter.

I don't see anyone "hoping" the war is a failure. I see people wanting to end the war before more people die, which isn't the same thing at all.

We see different things. Many, many here are hoping the US fails, either bc they hate Trump or bc they hate Israel (or both).

Sorry that we hate to see our tax money set on fire to fight a war for Israel and Epstein while we rot with no healthcare and fewer and fewer social safety nets, all while domestic facism takes root.

The US already failed the minute we illegally attacked another country. It failed when we elected Trump.