War with Iran

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

For once Americans are finally thinking “those six kids could be my kids.” That’s what it means to be part of a united nation.

Our kids can’t be cannon fodder for the sake of the Iranian people. Sorry.

Cannon fodder?

Ridiculous. More died in car accidents and from overdoses yesterday than in this conflict.

Odds of significant numbers of US casualties = 0.

Do you want to call the parents and children of the dead to let them know when they're significant?

I will, if you’ll call the families of the thousands previously killed by Iran and its proxies and explain why you are an apologist for the mullahs.

Oh please. You’re going back 50+ years, you MAGA mouth breather. I’m sure you’re the same person swearing here 1.5 years ago that you were VoTINg fOR TRump BEcaUSe hE wON’t StARt a WaR!

I despise Trump.But I’m not going to allow my loathing of him affect how I view issues.

And no, I’m not going back 50+ years (though one could). Exactly who do you think funded and trained Iraq’s Shia militias and designed and provided IEDs, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of Americans?

Hint: starts with an “I” ends with an “n”.

And why exactly do you think that the Gulf States, Germany, Australia, Canada, Britain, etc., etc. all want this Iranian regime gone?

Hint: it’s not bc they are Trump fans.

As a previous poster said, two things can be true at the same time: Trump’s an idiot and the end of the Iranian regime is good for the region and the world.

You know what would be even better for the world? Getting rid of Trump as US president. Between the chaos of his tariffs, his dismantling of the post-war alliance, his threatening of neighbor countries, his willingness to take bribes from other countries, his shooting of US protestors and foreign boats, is more destabilizing to the world order than the Ayatollah ever was.

PP here. I’m in favor of both. Let’s get rid of Trump and the Iranian regime.

DP. How, exactly, do you propose to get rid or the Iranian regime? That is the burning question right now. Everyone would like to know the answer. Let's hear it--what's the plan?

I misplaced my invite to CentCom, so am afraid I can’t give you a definitive answer.

But if I had to guess, I’d surmise that the calculation goes something like this:

1. Destabilize Iranian military and political leadership, creating as much instability as possible.

2. Empower and arm opposition, hoping that they depose leadership.

3. Destroy Iran’s force projection capability entirely.

Best case: 1&2 work and you get a new regime.

Worst case: regime survives, but is defanged and cowed. Iran’s military capabilities destroyed and created a massive deterrent against future Iranian adventurism in the region.

Actual worst case (in my opinion): failed state or suicidal regime willing to engage in global terrorism to exact revenge.

DP. I think the bolded is both the the worst case scenario and one of the most likely scenarios. It become Libya or Syria. The failed state ends up hosting terrorist groups that present a continued (if different in kind) threat to other countries in the region and lots of Iranians suffer and die in the ensuing violence.

PP.

Agreed. I think this action was a grave mistake, but certainly hope that it succeeds. I can understand those who disagree on the former, but not excuse those who disagree on the latter.

I don't see anyone "hoping" the war is a failure. I see people wanting to end the war before more people die, which isn't the same thing at all.

We see different things. Many, many here are hoping the US fails, either bc they hate Trump or bc they hate Israel (or both).

DP. How are you defining "failure"? Or, more specifically, ho do you think the "many" who hope that "the US fails" define failure?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

You're allowed to define your experiences. That doesn't mean you get to sign my kids up to die in your war. Six people is too many. If you'd like to die fighting the Iranian regime, no one is going to stop you.

This is simply TDS and delusions about Israel.

Why don’t people understand there are a lot of Dems who are ACTUALLY peaceniks? Who protested the Iraq war. Who protested Gaza because it was clear it went way beyond strategy. Women and children suffer in war. Soldiers die for interests that aren’t always clear. There is nothing good about it.

The irony being that Trump was supposed to be a master negotiator who would keep us out of war. He is a destabilizing force.

I will never forget during the first republican debate with the clown car circus of 20 candidates Trump received applause and boos when he slammed Jeb Bush over the Iraq war being a mistake and a lie. After that debate, his lead widened esp among independents. People forget part of the reason Trump won the republican nomination is because he told
The truth about Iraq. The other republicans liked to pretend George w bush didn’t exist

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

For once Americans are finally thinking “those six kids could be my kids.” That’s what it means to be part of a united nation.

Our kids can’t be cannon fodder for the sake of the Iranian people. Sorry.

Cannon fodder?

Ridiculous. More died in car accidents and from overdoses yesterday than in this conflict.

Odds of significant numbers of US casualties = 0.

Do you want to call the parents and children of the dead to let them know when they're significant?

I will, if you’ll call the families of the thousands previously killed by Iran and its proxies and explain why you are an apologist for the mullahs.

Oh please. You’re going back 50+ years, you MAGA mouth breather. I’m sure you’re the same person swearing here 1.5 years ago that you were VoTINg fOR TRump BEcaUSe hE wON’t StARt a WaR!

I despise Trump.But I’m not going to allow my loathing of him affect how I view issues.

And no, I’m not going back 50+ years (though one could). Exactly who do you think funded and trained Iraq’s Shia militias and designed and provided IEDs, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of Americans?

Hint: starts with an “I” ends with an “n”.

And why exactly do you think that the Gulf States, Germany, Australia, Canada, Britain, etc., etc. all want this Iranian regime gone?

Hint: it’s not bc they are Trump fans.

As a previous poster said, two things can be true at the same time: Trump’s an idiot and the end of the Iranian regime is good for the region and the world.

DP. But when an idiot is the one leading the regime change, it’s really not good for anyone.

+1 It’s a recipe for a failed state and a refugee crisis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

If this is genuine then I do appreciate what you're saying. I also remember Iraqi expats saying the same thing about Saddam immediately before and after the overthrow of his regime. And then we put boots on the ground. Be careful what you wish for when it comes to the US military.

I understand the natural skepticism on the part of Americans given their history in Iraq/Afghanistan. I really do. But Iran is not Iraq. First and foremost, Trump does not have the appetite or frankly the political capital for a military occupation. That is not the goal here. Furthermore, Khamenei was killed on DAY ONE of this conflict, and there has been much faster destruction of Iran's air defenses and missile forces. And most significantly - the sporadic, small-scale celebrations of Saddam's overthrow (hundreds to at most thousands of people) are absolutely not comparable to the enormous, major, nationwide protests that just took place in Iran. An estimated FIVE MILLION people took to the streets. Upwards of 80% of Iranians hate this regime and want it gone.

The skepticism is further compounded by the fact we have a mercurial president seemingly operating purely on his 'gut' and what the last person he spoke to said. He has surrounded himself with sycophants, frauds, cosplayers, and incompetent people. Whichever competent people he is surrounded with have to waste time and energy battling stupidity and malfeasance. Instead of the chairman of the joint chiefs delivering confident remarks to the world and American people, we're stuck with people like Hegseth. When there is communication it is poor, defensive, and not reassuring at all.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

For once Americans are finally thinking “those six kids could be my kids.” That’s what it means to be part of a united nation.

Our kids can’t be cannon fodder for the sake of the Iranian people. Sorry.

Cannon fodder?

Ridiculous. More died in car accidents and from overdoses yesterday than in this conflict.

Odds of significant numbers of US casualties = 0.

Do you want to call the parents and children of the dead to let them know when they're significant?

I will, if you’ll call the families of the thousands previously killed by Iran and its proxies and explain why you are an apologist for the mullahs.

Oh please. You’re going back 50+ years, you MAGA mouth breather. I’m sure you’re the same person swearing here 1.5 years ago that you were VoTINg fOR TRump BEcaUSe hE wON’t StARt a WaR!

I despise Trump.But I’m not going to allow my loathing of him affect how I view issues.

And no, I’m not going back 50+ years (though one could). Exactly who do you think funded and trained Iraq’s Shia militias and designed and provided IEDs, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of Americans?

Hint: starts with an “I” ends with an “n”.

And why exactly do you think that the Gulf States, Germany, Australia, Canada, Britain, etc., etc. all want this Iranian regime gone?

Hint: it’s not bc they are Trump fans.

As a previous poster said, two things can be true at the same time: Trump’s an idiot and the end of the Iranian regime is good for the region and the world.

You know what would be even better for the world? Getting rid of Trump as US president. Between the chaos of his tariffs, his dismantling of the post-war alliance, his threatening of neighbor countries, his willingness to take bribes from other countries, his shooting of US protestors and foreign boats, is more destabilizing to the world order than the Ayatollah ever was.

PP here. I’m in favor of both. Let’s get rid of Trump and the Iranian regime.

DP. How, exactly, do you propose to get rid or the Iranian regime? That is the burning question right now. Everyone would like to know the answer. Let's hear it--what's the plan?

I misplaced my invite to CentCom, so am afraid I can’t give you a definitive answer.

But if I had to guess, I’d surmise that the calculation goes something like this:

1. Destabilize Iranian military and political leadership, creating as much instability as possible.

2. Empower and arm opposition, hoping that they depose leadership.

3. Destroy Iran’s force projection capability entirely.

Best case: 1&2 work and you get a new regime.

Worst case: regime survives, but is defanged and cowed. Iran’s military capabilities destroyed and created a massive deterrent against future Iranian adventurism in the region.

Actual worst case (in my opinion): failed state or suicidal regime willing to engage in global terrorism to exact revenge.

DP. I think the bolded is both the the worst case scenario and one of the most likely scenarios. It become Libya or Syria. The failed state ends up hosting terrorist groups that present a continued (if different in kind) threat to other countries in the region and lots of Iranians suffer and die in the ensuing violence.

PP.

Agreed. I think this action was a grave mistake, but certainly hope that it succeeds. I can understand those who disagree on the former, but not excuse those who disagree on the latter.

I don't see anyone "hoping" the war is a failure. I see people wanting to end the war before more people die, which isn't the same thing at all.

We see different things. Many, many here are hoping the US fails, either bc they hate Trump or bc they hate Israel (or both).

Sorry that we hate to see our tax money set on fire to fight a war for Israel and Epstein while we rot with no healthcare and fewer and fewer social safety nets, all while domestic facism takes root.

The US already failed the minute we illegally attacked another country. It failed when we elected Trump.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

You pipe down. We don't want our kids in this fight.

You people don't get it, do you. The Islamist terrorist rot that this regime spreads will come for you too. Just look at the state of this thread. It's page after page after page of antisemitic, anti-Western propaganda talking points. This regime has murdered Americans on American soil. It has murdered Americans abroad. It will continue to murder Americans and threaten American interests until it is stopped. And if it gets nukes - it cannot be stopped.

YOU don’t get it if you think the Trump administration is acting in the best interests of the Iranian people. Trump has literally said that his model for Iran is the same one as for Venezuela – –get rid of the head of the regime and then find a new leader from the same regime that is more amenable to US control.

Are you an American? Why do you think this is a bad thing? I hate Trump and MAGA, but the reflexive anti-Americanism here is wild.

Yes, I'm an American. What's "reflexively anti-American" about what I said? Trump started a war (or let himself be led into one) that does not include a coherent plan for what comes AFTER the strategic bombings.

Don't believe me. Read if for yourself. Here is a gift link to an article in the NYT where Trump muses about the possible ways this war could end. https://www.nytimes.com/2026/03/01/us/politics/trump-iran-war-interview.html?unlocked_article_code=1.Q1A.yZg2.S6fO7L36nXet&smid=url-share

Some highlights from the article:

"In a brief telephone interview with The New York Times, Mr. Trump offered several seemingly contradictory visions of how power might be transferred to a new government — or even whether the existing Iranian power structure would run that government or be overthrown."

These are the what-comes-after scenarios he mused about:

1) "Among the options he suggested was an outcome similar to what he engineered in Venezuela, in which only the top leader was removed during an American military strike and much of the rest of the government remained in place, but newly willing to work pragmatically with the United States."

2) "When pressed on his plans for a transition of power, Mr. Trump said he hoped Iran’s elite military forces — including hardened officers of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps who have held substantial influence and profited from the existing regime — would simply turn over their weapons to the Iranian populace.

3) But then he described a scenario in which the Iranian people would overthrow the existing government.

“That’s going to be up to them about whether or not they do,” Mr. Trump said. “They’ve been talking about it for years so now they’ll obviously have an opportunity.” That would, of course, be the opposite of the Venezuela model that he had said minutes earlier he wanted to replicate.

+1 And there is no Delcy Rodriguez in Iran.

Iran is a really country. If this happened to the US there would be some republicans cutting deals with the invades but most people would fight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Your kids are not dying for this. Drama queen

How do you know that her kid is not in the ME right now. You sound stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

You're allowed to define your experiences. That doesn't mean you get to sign my kids up to die in your war. Six people is too many. If you'd like to die fighting the Iranian regime, no one is going to stop you.

This is simply TDS and delusions about Israel.

Why don’t people understand there are a lot of Dems who are ACTUALLY peaceniks? Who protested the Iraq war. Who protested Gaza because it was clear it went way beyond strategy. Women and children suffer in war. Soldiers die for interests that aren’t always clear. There is nothing good about it.

The irony being that Trump was supposed to be a master negotiator who would keep us out of war. He is a destabilizing force.

I will never forget during the first republican debate with the clown car circus of 20 candidates Trump received applause and boos when he slammed Jeb Bush over the Iraq war being a mistake and a lie. After that debate, his lead widened esp among independents. People forget part of the reason Trump won the republican nomination is because he told
The truth about Iraq. The other republicans liked to pretend George w bush didn’t exist

Honestly, as a Democrat, his claims to be anti-war intrigued me for a bit. Ultimately, there was too much other stuff for me to vote for him, but it's one of the few areas where he got it right. I'm kind of black pilled on this now, I don't think there's any president who can resist the pressure of the long term bipartisan consensus in favor of using the US military like this. If both Trump and Obama can get on board eventually, I don't think there's much hope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I hope they succeed in disrupting oil prices. Just maybe the USA will come into the 21st century and begin to really, really invest in renewables and more hybrid/electric vehicles. As log as oil is cheap, we will continue with these unnecessary wars in the ME.

Trump just gave China green energy on a silver platter because he’s a very stupid negotiator. So, now we’ll be reliant on China, though it’s infinitely better for the planet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

Ah, you probably feel the same way Trump feels about them, S&L. Only six, girl bless your heart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

For once Americans are finally thinking “those six kids could be my kids.” That’s what it means to be part of a united nation.

Our kids can’t be cannon fodder for the sake of the Iranian people. Sorry.

Cannon fodder?

Ridiculous. More died in car accidents and from overdoses yesterday than in this conflict.

Odds of significant numbers of US casualties = 0.

Do you want to call the parents and children of the dead to let them know when they're significant?

I will, if you’ll call the families of the thousands previously killed by Iran and its proxies and explain why you are an apologist for the mullahs.

Oh please. You’re going back 50+ years, you MAGA mouth breather. I’m sure you’re the same person swearing here 1.5 years ago that you were VoTINg fOR TRump BEcaUSe hE wON’t StARt a WaR!

I despise Trump.But I’m not going to allow my loathing of him affect how I view issues.

And no, I’m not going back 50+ years (though one could). Exactly who do you think funded and trained Iraq’s Shia militias and designed and provided IEDs, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of Americans?

Hint: starts with an “I” ends with an “n”.

And why exactly do you think that the Gulf States, Germany, Australia, Canada, Britain, etc., etc. all want this Iranian regime gone?

Hint: it’s not bc they are Trump fans.

As a previous poster said, two things can be true at the same time: Trump’s an idiot and the end of the Iranian regime is good for the region and the world.

You know what would be even better for the world? Getting rid of Trump as US president. Between the chaos of his tariffs, his dismantling of the post-war alliance, his threatening of neighbor countries, his willingness to take bribes from other countries, his shooting of US protestors and foreign boats, is more destabilizing to the world order than the Ayatollah ever was.

PP here. I’m in favor of both. Let’s get rid of Trump and the Iranian regime.

DP. How, exactly, do you propose to get rid or the Iranian regime? That is the burning question right now. Everyone would like to know the answer. Let's hear it--what's the plan?

I misplaced my invite to CentCom, so am afraid I can’t give you a definitive answer.

But if I had to guess, I’d surmise that the calculation goes something like this:

1. Destabilize Iranian military and political leadership, creating as much instability as possible.

2. Empower and arm opposition, hoping that they depose leadership.

3. Destroy Iran’s force projection capability entirely.

Best case: 1&2 work and you get a new regime.

Worst case: regime survives, but is defanged and cowed. Iran’s military capabilities destroyed and created a massive deterrent against future Iranian adventurism in the region.

Actual worst case (in my opinion): failed state or suicidal regime willing to engage in global terrorism to exact revenge.

DP. I think the bolded is both the the worst case scenario and one of the most likely scenarios. It become Libya or Syria. The failed state ends up hosting terrorist groups that present a continued (if different in kind) threat to other countries in the region and lots of Iranians suffer and die in the ensuing violence.

PP.

Agreed. I think this action was a grave mistake, but certainly hope that it succeeds. I can understand those who disagree on the former, but not excuse those who disagree on the latter.

I don't see anyone "hoping" the war is a failure. I see people wanting to end the war before more people die, which isn't the same thing at all.

We see different things. Many, many here are hoping the US fails, either bc they hate Trump or bc they hate Israel (or both).

DP. You’re truly blinded by hate or propaganda. Nobody wants failure because it means more incompetency, more death, more growth of terror networks that will harm our grandchildren.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By the way, many of our allies like Saudi Arabia are Also a brutal theocracy and not a multi faith one either I might add unlike Iran which hosts Jews and Christians and other faiths in its parliament.

Iran did not attack us on 9/11 and they were not the ones killing us in Iraq post 2003. Iran actually hated saddam and was happy the us took him out. If anything we did them
A favor by boosting Shias in Iraq. We also drove them to want nukes with the stupid axis of evil speech Bush made targeting North Korea and Iran Iran as “up next”. Their hubris then led them to believe Iraq would
Take six months and then they can invade Iran right after. Look what happened instead: 15 years in Iraq, and only after 22 years, are we now in Iran

What? They certainly did intervene against Americans in Iraq. Well documented. Simple google search will provide you with the info.

Also rather astonishing that people are overlooking the 600K Syrians that Iran helped Assad butcher.

What about the Syrian Christians Iran and Hezbollah defended against Isis? Want a wild
Guess who supported Isis? We did. The guy leading Syria right now is ex Isis. He received a promotion from us and now he’s leading the nation. Netanyahu and Trump love him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

For once Americans are finally thinking “those six kids could be my kids.” That’s what it means to be part of a united nation.

Our kids can’t be cannon fodder for the sake of the Iranian people. Sorry.

Cannon fodder?

Ridiculous. More died in car accidents and from overdoses yesterday than in this conflict.

Odds of significant numbers of US casualties = 0.

Do you want to call the parents and children of the dead to let them know when they're significant?

I will, if you’ll call the families of the thousands previously killed by Iran and its proxies and explain why you are an apologist for the mullahs.

Oh please. You’re going back 50+ years, you MAGA mouth breather. I’m sure you’re the same person swearing here 1.5 years ago that you were VoTINg fOR TRump BEcaUSe hE wON’t StARt a WaR!

I despise Trump.But I’m not going to allow my loathing of him affect how I view issues.

And no, I’m not going back 50+ years (though one could). Exactly who do you think funded and trained Iraq’s Shia militias and designed and provided IEDs, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of Americans?

Hint: starts with an “I” ends with an “n”.

And why exactly do you think that the Gulf States, Germany, Australia, Canada, Britain, etc., etc. all want this Iranian regime gone?

Hint: it’s not bc they are Trump fans.

As a previous poster said, two things can be true at the same time: Trump’s an idiot and the end of the Iranian regime is good for the region and the world.

You know what would be even better for the world? Getting rid of Trump as US president. Between the chaos of his tariffs, his dismantling of the post-war alliance, his threatening of neighbor countries, his willingness to take bribes from other countries, his shooting of US protestors and foreign boats, is more destabilizing to the world order than the Ayatollah ever was.

PP here. I’m in favor of both. Let’s get rid of Trump and the Iranian regime.

DP. How, exactly, do you propose to get rid or the Iranian regime? That is the burning question right now. Everyone would like to know the answer. Let's hear it--what's the plan?

I misplaced my invite to CentCom, so am afraid I can’t give you a definitive answer.

But if I had to guess, I’d surmise that the calculation goes something like this:

1. Destabilize Iranian military and political leadership, creating as much instability as possible.

2. Empower and arm opposition, hoping that they depose leadership.

3. Destroy Iran’s force projection capability entirely.

Best case: 1&2 work and you get a new regime.

Worst case: regime survives, but is defanged and cowed. Iran’s military capabilities destroyed and created a massive deterrent against future Iranian adventurism in the region.

Actual worst case (in my opinion): failed state or suicidal regime willing to engage in global terrorism to exact revenge.

DP. I think the bolded is both the the worst case scenario and one of the most likely scenarios. It become Libya or Syria. The failed state ends up hosting terrorist groups that present a continued (if different in kind) threat to other countries in the region and lots of Iranians suffer and die in the ensuing violence.

PP.

Agreed. I think this action was a grave mistake, but certainly hope that it succeeds. I can understand those who disagree on the former, but not excuse those who disagree on the latter.

I don't see anyone "hoping" the war is a failure. I see people wanting to end the war before more people die, which isn't the same thing at all.

We see different things. Many, many here are hoping the US fails, either bc they hate Trump or bc they hate Israel (or both).

Failure or success is relative. Many don't want endless wars fought on behalf of other nations or MNC. Neocolonialism and nation building are how and why certain countries and cultures have come to hate the US.

There's no example in the world of a successful and prosperous nation build because of the US destroying and installing a puppet. The only actual recent successful countries have been the ones that said fk off to outsiders meddling in their domestic political and economic affairs.

We actually have pretty good trade and relations with all of them, even including China, despite Trump fking things up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

For once Americans are finally thinking “those six kids could be my kids.” That’s what it means to be part of a united nation.

Our kids can’t be cannon fodder for the sake of the Iranian people. Sorry.

Cannon fodder?

Ridiculous. More died in car accidents and from overdoses yesterday than in this conflict.

Odds of significant numbers of US casualties = 0.

Do you want to call the parents and children of the dead to let them know when they're significant?

I will, if you’ll call the families of the thousands previously killed by Iran and its proxies and explain why you are an apologist for the mullahs.

Oh please. You’re going back 50+ years, you MAGA mouth breather. I’m sure you’re the same person swearing here 1.5 years ago that you were VoTINg fOR TRump BEcaUSe hE wON’t StARt a WaR!

I despise Trump.But I’m not going to allow my loathing of him affect how I view issues.

And no, I’m not going back 50+ years (though one could). Exactly who do you think funded and trained Iraq’s Shia militias and designed and provided IEDs, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of Americans?

Hint: starts with an “I” ends with an “n”.

And why exactly do you think that the Gulf States, Germany, Australia, Canada, Britain, etc., etc. all want this Iranian regime gone?

Hint: it’s not bc they are Trump fans.

As a previous poster said, two things can be true at the same time: Trump’s an idiot and the end of the Iranian regime is good for the region and the world.

You know what would be even better for the world? Getting rid of Trump as US president. Between the chaos of his tariffs, his dismantling of the post-war alliance, his threatening of neighbor countries, his willingness to take bribes from other countries, his shooting of US protestors and foreign boats, is more destabilizing to the world order than the Ayatollah ever was.

PP here. I’m in favor of both. Let’s get rid of Trump and the Iranian regime.

DP. How, exactly, do you propose to get rid or the Iranian regime? That is the burning question right now. Everyone would like to know the answer. Let's hear it--what's the plan?

I misplaced my invite to CentCom, so am afraid I can’t give you a definitive answer.

But if I had to guess, I’d surmise that the calculation goes something like this:

1. Destabilize Iranian military and political leadership, creating as much instability as possible.

2. Empower and arm opposition, hoping that they depose leadership.

3. Destroy Iran’s force projection capability entirely.

Best case: 1&2 work and you get a new regime.

Worst case: regime survives, but is defanged and cowed. Iran’s military capabilities destroyed and created a massive deterrent against future Iranian adventurism in the region.

Actual worst case (in my opinion): failed state or suicidal regime willing to engage in global terrorism to exact revenge.

DP. I think the bolded is both the the worst case scenario and one of the most likely scenarios. It become Libya or Syria. The failed state ends up hosting terrorist groups that present a continued (if different in kind) threat to other countries in the region and lots of Iranians suffer and die in the ensuing violence.

PP.

Agreed. I think this action was a grave mistake, but certainly hope that it succeeds. I can understand those who disagree on the former, but not excuse those who disagree on the latter.

I don't see anyone "hoping" the war is a failure. I see people wanting to end the war before more people die, which isn't the same thing at all.

We see different things. Many, many here are hoping the US fails, either bc they hate Trump or bc they hate Israel (or both).

Nobody is hoping for it, we're just all expecting it. That's what Trump specializes in. Creating messes and throwing people under the bus. That's the inevitable outcome here.

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Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

You pipe down. We don't want our kids in this fight.

You people don't get it, do you. The Islamist terrorist rot that this regime spreads will come for you too. Just look at the state of this thread. It's page after page after page of antisemitic, anti-Western propaganda talking points. This regime has murdered Americans on American soil. It has murdered Americans abroad. It will continue to murder Americans and threaten American interests until it is stopped. And if it gets nukes - it cannot be stopped.

So worth it to forgo cancer research for American children for this? Reasonable to take away healthcare subsidies for Americans for this?

If it succeeds? Certainly.

You can’t even get regime change in Gaza . It took 10 years to get regime change in Syria. How are they going to get regime change in Iran? Trump is notoriously impatient. Within a few weeks or less, he’s going to want this wrap this up and move on.

Rather different situation, right?

Iran is a functioning (ish) nation with organized opposition. Leadership can’t just disappear into tunnels (unlike Gaza). If they do, country will cease functioning and opposition will take control.

Who / what is the organized opposition? What are they doing right now or planning? Can you provide a link that lays gives an analysis of this organized opposition and their plans?

I haven't heard any plans for organized opposition besides Trump telling the Kurds to go and fight.

DP. Below is a link to a short primer on the various opposition groups. Basically, there is no large, organized, or coordinated opposition. Iran is an ethnically diverse country of 92-93 million people (one of the most populous countries on earth). There is no one opposition party or movement. It's not going to be easy for those opposed to the regime to take back their country.

Who are the Iranian opposition and can they take on the regime?
https://www.thetimes.com/world/middle-east/article/iran-reza-pahlavi-opposition-war-who-are-rtst9tm8b?gaa_at=eafs&gaa_n=AWEtsqf9EdLIdwqJcBSPpuWHrYSGuLfEqSv7sk5pBWa85Tw3nrIi0sQySywV2XfyWz0%3D&gaa_ts=69a9acd7&gaa_sig=ne0K3VD10245E3ToaaAg75gW37R79KPVNjoD_iZpUUnDldJpjDTEUCF0R3L6ZOZZf-KHZySiHa8iuHpaOHR1mQ%3D%3D