Flash Flood in Texas,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a central Texan, a Democrat, a lifelong visitor to Kerrville, a former camper there, a prospective retiree to the area, and a friend and relative to many who have been impacted by this - I don't cast blame anywhere. There is so much complicated history and culture in that area of the state that is hard to understand from the outside. The external criticism will only make it more insular.

And blame is beside the point in any case. I know people can't help themselves though.

No doubt there will be an implementation of more effective warning signals along the Guadalupe river - like sirens. There is little to no cell service (on purpose) so they may also increase cell tower numbers. However the sirens will only be as effective as the NWS data and the alertness of local officials. Mystic and the other impacted camps are where the kids of the most influential families in the state spend their summer so there will be changes but they will not blame the camps. However, my guess is that at least one or more will have to shutter completely because they are not the most financially stable organizations in this day and age.

But cellphone towers cause cancer!

Give it a rest.

I wish I could. The educated posters on this board are against any technology that doesn't involve copper wires.

In this case they should have had their own alert system with cellular, radio, and copper. You are obnoxious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a central Texan, a Democrat, a lifelong visitor to Kerrville, a former camper there, a prospective retiree to the area, and a friend and relative to many who have been impacted by this - I don't cast blame anywhere. There is so much complicated history and culture in that area of the state that is hard to understand from the outside. The external criticism will only make it more insular.

And blame is beside the point in any case. I know people can't help themselves though.

No doubt there will be an implementation of more effective warning signals along the Guadalupe river - like sirens. There is little to no cell service (on purpose) so they may also increase cell tower numbers. However the sirens will only be as effective as the NWS data and the alertness of local officials. Mystic and the other impacted camps are where the kids of the most influential families in the state spend their summer so there will be changes but they will not blame the camps. However, my guess is that at least one or more will have to shutter completely because they are not the most financially stable organizations in this day and age.

You're ridiculous. Parents have already gone on record blaming the camp. Children have died, PP. You're not reading the situation well. Of course the governor and other officials are putting a brave face on it, but they're passing the buck. Parents of children who died WILL blame everyone in charge, and they will be entirely right!

I have not seen a thing that the governor said so I don’t even know what you’re talking about there nor do I care what he says. My point in my post is that there’s a lot of blaming going on by people who don’t really understand the full story. The parents can blame whoever they want. But my prediction is that the camps will not bear the brunt of it.

I’m unsure what else the camps were supposed to do other than what they did but that is where my ignorance comes in. I guess you can say they should not have relied on local officials but rather have direct communication with the NWS (if that is even a thing). Or they should have pressed harder for the warning sirens years ago. But again, the sirens only work if the local officials are doing their jobs and have the data they need. Or they could have put the cabins higher up even though the water has never in the camp history gotten that high much less that fast (and ditto to several other camps in the area.)

I also can’t emphasize enough that there are flash flood warnings often out there, but they are akin to stay home and don’t drive. Not evacuation orders. If you will note, there were no evacuation orders of any kind given by anyone thus the missing people all along the river, even in town, not just the camp.

And I’m going to assume that the person blaming the counselors is a troll. There are at least two counselors missing from Mystic. They were the counselors in the cabin that was most affected. I’ve personally heard stories about 19-year-old counselors who broke windows to get out and led their campers up to safety and sang songs with them under a tree in the dark in the pouring rain.

Ignorance indeed.

1. The Governor just said: "Now we know prayers work" - because not more peopled died, presumably? He's a big climate change denier. That remark just shows he won't accept any blame whatsoever and is desperately trying to squeeze praise out of this.

2. The county the camp is in refused to upgrade the flood warning system that they themselves identified as being old and inefficient. Apparently they've been debating it for years and nothing got done, because some middle managers thought funds should go elsewhere.

3. The camp should not have had cabins so low next to a river that is known to flood. Other camps did not have cabins set up so low.

So right off the bat, 24hrs after the tragedy, you have a Governor who is proud of the outcome, a county whose kids died because it refused to put in a better warning system (unlike the county next to it), and a camp with cabins too close to the river, unlike other camps.

YOU THINK THERE'S NO BLAME TO GO AROUND?

The camp should have had a warning system and a safety plan given how many they had at the camp. There is tons of blame but ultimately it’s on the camp.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t blame the counselors. They are just kids themselves and either drowned, or survived something extremely traumatic.

The counselors did the best they could. The camp is to blame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a central Texan, a Democrat, a lifelong visitor to Kerrville, a former camper there, a prospective retiree to the area, and a friend and relative to many who have been impacted by this - I don't cast blame anywhere. There is so much complicated history and culture in that area of the state that is hard to understand from the outside. The external criticism will only make it more insular.

And blame is beside the point in any case. I know people can't help themselves though.

No doubt there will be an implementation of more effective warning signals along the Guadalupe river - like sirens. There is little to no cell service (on purpose) so they may also increase cell tower numbers. However the sirens will only be as effective as the NWS data and the alertness of local officials. Mystic and the other impacted camps are where the kids of the most influential families in the state spend their summer so there will be changes but they will not blame the camps. However, my guess is that at least one or more will have to shutter completely because they are not the most financially stable organizations in this day and age.

You're ridiculous. Parents have already gone on record blaming the camp. Children have died, PP. You're not reading the situation well. Of course the governor and other officials are putting a brave face on it, but they're passing the buck. Parents of children who died WILL blame everyone in charge, and they will be entirely right!

I have not seen a thing that the governor said so I don’t even know what you’re talking about there nor do I care what he says. My point in my post is that there’s a lot of blaming going on by people who don’t really understand the full story. The parents can blame whoever they want. But my prediction is that the camps will not bear the brunt of it.

I’m unsure what else the camps were supposed to do other than what they did but that is where my ignorance comes in. I guess you can say they should not have relied on local officials but rather have direct communication with the NWS (if that is even a thing). Or they should have pressed harder for the warning sirens years ago. But again, the sirens only work if the local officials are doing their jobs and have the data they need. Or they could have put the cabins higher up even though the water has never in the camp history gotten that high much less that fast (and ditto to several other camps in the area.)

I also can’t emphasize enough that there are flash flood warnings often out there, but they are akin to stay home and don’t drive. Not evacuation orders. If you will note, there were no evacuation orders of any kind given by anyone thus the missing people all along the river, even in town, not just the camp.

And I’m going to assume that the person blaming the counselors is a troll. There are at least two counselors missing from Mystic. They were the counselors in the cabin that was most affected. I’ve personally heard stories about 19-year-old counselors who broke windows to get out and led their campers up to safety and sang songs with them under a tree in the dark in the pouring rain.

Ignorance indeed.

1. The Governor just said: "Now we know prayers work" - because not more peopled died, presumably? He's a big climate change denier. That remark just shows he won't accept any blame whatsoever and is desperately trying to squeeze praise out of this.

2. The county the camp is in refused to upgrade the flood warning system that they themselves identified as being old and inefficient. Apparently they've been debating it for years and nothing got done, because some middle managers thought funds should go elsewhere.

3. The camp should not have had cabins so low next to a river that is known to flood. Other camps did not have cabins set up so low.

So right off the bat, 24hrs after the tragedy, you have a Governor who is proud of the outcome, a county whose kids died because it refused to put in a better warning system (unlike the county next to it), and a camp with cabins too close to the river, unlike other camps.

YOU THINK THERE'S NO BLAME TO GO AROUND?

The camp should have had a warning system and a safety plan given how many they had at the camp. There is tons of blame but ultimately it’s on the camp.

No, the blame is spread equally. A camp cannot have a warning system: it can move cabins to higher ground and hold practice evacuations, however. It's the countries who set up the weather alert sirens. The next county over apparently did that, but this county did not. And the Governor is toxic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many of you are so sick. These are missing children. Little girls. Other people have been killed, hurt, are missing or have lost everything. I don’t care who anyone voted for. Most of these kids obviously can’t vote. What is actually wrong with you?

If any of you who are gloating over this tragedy or say you don’t have compassion claim to belong to any religion or spiritual community, know that you don’t. Know that you are evil and full of hate.

Who is gloating?. Why are you just sitting there like a bump on a log sad about what happened. Step up a little.

I work as a researcher in geographical sciences, focusing on remote sensing. My projects include climate change. I also volunteer and donate to environmental organizations. Care to tell me how you are more “stepped up” than I am now?

I'm not smacking you around for having an opinion about what could be done to prevent disasters like this in the future.

And I’m not “smacking anyone around” for doing that; I am talking about the ghouls who are literally saying they don’t care because it’s Texas, they voted for it, blah blah blah. This thread has at least three gross posts on every page, and if you’re going to deny that, there’s no point in talking with you, because you don’t face reality. If my chastising post doesn’t apply to you, then ease on down the road.

That’s the reality. This happened in Texas, a notorious red state. This happened to children at a Christian camp. Children whose parents almost certainly all voted for Trump. Those are three strikes against them for a lot of people here.


It’s not exactly hard to fathom why people here say they don’t care. They’re just being honest. They shouldn’t be excoriated for being honest.

This isn’t honesty. It is sociopathy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many of you are so sick. These are missing children. Little girls. Other people have been killed, hurt, are missing or have lost everything. I don’t care who anyone voted for. Most of these kids obviously can’t vote. What is actually wrong with you?

If any of you who are gloating over this tragedy or say you don’t have compassion claim to belong to any religion or spiritual community, know that you don’t. Know that you are evil and full of hate.

Who is gloating?. Why are you just sitting there like a bump on a log sad about what happened. Step up a little.

I work as a researcher in geographical sciences, focusing on remote sensing. My projects include climate change. I also volunteer and donate to environmental organizations. Care to tell me how you are more “stepped up” than I am now?

I'm not smacking you around for having an opinion about what could be done to prevent disasters like this in the future.

And I’m not “smacking anyone around” for doing that; I am talking about the ghouls who are literally saying they don’t care because it’s Texas, they voted for it, blah blah blah. This thread has at least three gross posts on every page, and if you’re going to deny that, there’s no point in talking with you, because you don’t face reality. If my chastising post doesn’t apply to you, then ease on down the road.

That’s the reality. This happened in Texas, a notorious red state. This happened to children at a Christian camp. Children whose parents almost certainly all voted for Trump. Those are three strikes against them for a lot of people here.


It’s not exactly hard to fathom why people here say they don’t care. They’re just being honest. They shouldn’t be excoriated for being honest.

You're both wrong. We're all upset about these children. Don't confuse real people with trolls, OK? There are trolls posts everyday on DCUM. This thread is not exception.

Do not let yourselves be taken in.

These are partisan Democrats sneering at the dead kids. Come on. I’m a Democrat and I recognize the progressive wing of the party when I see it in action.

Hello troll.

Hi progressive Democrat! Don’t you have some deaths of young children to cheer for with your buddies?

No one is “cheering.” We are just pointing out that no, it is not the time to “not be political” when discussing this incident. Because politics dictates how we prepare for and respond to weather related disasters, and politics is why we don’t do anything about climate change, despite very good science that establishes why hotter temperatures lead to an increase in sudden intense precipitation events. The laws of physics will not be denied by defunding NOAA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a central Texan, a Democrat, a lifelong visitor to Kerrville, a former camper there, a prospective retiree to the area, and a friend and relative to many who have been impacted by this - I don't cast blame anywhere. There is so much complicated history and culture in that area of the state that is hard to understand from the outside. The external criticism will only make it more insular.

And blame is beside the point in any case. I know people can't help themselves though.

No doubt there will be an implementation of more effective warning signals along the Guadalupe river - like sirens. There is little to no cell service (on purpose) so they may also increase cell tower numbers. However the sirens will only be as effective as the NWS data and the alertness of local officials. Mystic and the other impacted camps are where the kids of the most influential families in the state spend their summer so there will be changes but they will not blame the camps. However, my guess is that at least one or more will have to shutter completely because they are not the most financially stable organizations in this day and age.

You're ridiculous. Parents have already gone on record blaming the camp. Children have died, PP. You're not reading the situation well. Of course the governor and other officials are putting a brave face on it, but they're passing the buck. Parents of children who died WILL blame everyone in charge, and they will be entirely right!

I have not seen a thing that the governor said so I don’t even know what you’re talking about there nor do I care what he says. My point in my post is that there’s a lot of blaming going on by people who don’t really understand the full story. The parents can blame whoever they want. But my prediction is that the camps will not bear the brunt of it.

I’m unsure what else the camps were supposed to do other than what they did but that is where my ignorance comes in. I guess you can say they should not have relied on local officials but rather have direct communication with the NWS (if that is even a thing). Or they should have pressed harder for the warning sirens years ago. But again, the sirens only work if the local officials are doing their jobs and have the data they need. Or they could have put the cabins higher up even though the water has never in the camp history gotten that high much less that fast (and ditto to several other camps in the area.)

I also can’t emphasize enough that there are flash flood warnings often out there, but they are akin to stay home and don’t drive. Not evacuation orders. If you will note, there were no evacuation orders of any kind given by anyone thus the missing people all along the river, even in town, not just the camp.

And I’m going to assume that the person blaming the counselors is a troll. There are at least two counselors missing from Mystic. They were the counselors in the cabin that was most affected. I’ve personally heard stories about 19-year-old counselors who broke windows to get out and led their campers up to safety and sang songs with them under a tree in the dark in the pouring rain.

Ignorance indeed.

1. The Governor just said: "Now we know prayers work" - because not more peopled died, presumably? He's a big climate change denier. That remark just shows he won't accept any blame whatsoever and is desperately trying to squeeze praise out of this.

2. The county the camp is in refused to upgrade the flood warning system that they themselves identified as being old and inefficient. Apparently they've been debating it for years and nothing got done, because some middle managers thought funds should go elsewhere.

3. The camp should not have had cabins so low next to a river that is known to flood. Other camps did not have cabins set up so low.

So right off the bat, 24hrs after the tragedy, you have a Governor who is proud of the outcome, a county whose kids died because it refused to put in a better warning system (unlike the county next to it), and a camp with cabins too close to the river, unlike other camps.

YOU THINK THERE'S NO BLAME TO GO AROUND?

The camp should have had a warning system and a safety plan given how many they had at the camp. There is tons of blame but ultimately it’s on the camp.

No, the blame is spread equally. A camp cannot have a warning system: it can move cabins to higher ground and hold practice evacuations, however. It's the countries who set up the weather alert sirens. The next county over apparently did that, but this county did not. And the Governor is toxic.

A camp can have their own siren and they monitor the weather. They have had this issue for at least 100 years so they knew it was a possibility and never should have had kids sleeping in those cabins. They also should have had land lines and radio or something to contact the counselors. And, transportation for every child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The town’s mayor said they didn’t have any system to monitor flash floods. And now 24 people are confirmed dead and more are missing.

Too bad DOGE gutted NOAA and FEMA. People don’t want big government until they realize it has a useful function in keeping us safe.

Texas, Trump camp?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a central Texan, a Democrat, a lifelong visitor to Kerrville, a former camper there, a prospective retiree to the area, and a friend and relative to many who have been impacted by this - I don't cast blame anywhere. There is so much complicated history and culture in that area of the state that is hard to understand from the outside. The external criticism will only make it more insular.

And blame is beside the point in any case. I know people can't help themselves though.

No doubt there will be an implementation of more effective warning signals along the Guadalupe river - like sirens. There is little to no cell service (on purpose) so they may also increase cell tower numbers. However the sirens will only be as effective as the NWS data and the alertness of local officials. Mystic and the other impacted camps are where the kids of the most influential families in the state spend their summer so there will be changes but they will not blame the camps. However, my guess is that at least one or more will have to shutter completely because they are not the most financially stable organizations in this day and age.

You're ridiculous. Parents have already gone on record blaming the camp. Children have died, PP. You're not reading the situation well. Of course the governor and other officials are putting a brave face on it, but they're passing the buck. Parents of children who died WILL blame everyone in charge, and they will be entirely right!

I have not seen a thing that the governor said so I don’t even know what you’re talking about there nor do I care what he says. My point in my post is that there’s a lot of blaming going on by people who don’t really understand the full story. The parents can blame whoever they want. But my prediction is that the camps will not bear the brunt of it.

I’m unsure what else the camps were supposed to do other than what they did but that is where my ignorance comes in. I guess you can say they should not have relied on local officials but rather have direct communication with the NWS (if that is even a thing). Or they should have pressed harder for the warning sirens years ago. But again, the sirens only work if the local officials are doing their jobs and have the data they need. Or they could have put the cabins higher up even though the water has never in the camp history gotten that high much less that fast (and ditto to several other camps in the area.)

I also can’t emphasize enough that there are flash flood warnings often out there, but they are akin to stay home and don’t drive. Not evacuation orders. If you will note, there were no evacuation orders of any kind given by anyone thus the missing people all along the river, even in town, not just the camp.

And I’m going to assume that the person blaming the counselors is a troll. There are at least two counselors missing from Mystic. They were the counselors in the cabin that was most affected. I’ve personally heard stories about 19-year-old counselors who broke windows to get out and led their campers up to safety and sang songs with them under a tree in the dark in the pouring rain.

Ignorance indeed.

1. The Governor just said: "Now we know prayers work" - because not more peopled died, presumably? He's a big climate change denier. That remark just shows he won't accept any blame whatsoever and is desperately trying to squeeze praise out of this.

2. The county the camp is in refused to upgrade the flood warning system that they themselves identified as being old and inefficient. Apparently they've been debating it for years and nothing got done, because some middle managers thought funds should go elsewhere.

3. The camp should not have had cabins so low next to a river that is known to flood. Other camps did not have cabins set up so low.

So right off the bat, 24hrs after the tragedy, you have a Governor who is proud of the outcome, a county whose kids died because it refused to put in a better warning system (unlike the county next to it), and a camp with cabins too close to the river, unlike other camps.

YOU THINK THERE'S NO BLAME TO GO AROUND?

The camp should have had a warning system and a safety plan given how many they had at the camp. There is tons of blame but ultimately it’s on the camp.

No, the blame is spread equally. A camp cannot have a warning system: it can move cabins to higher ground and hold practice evacuations, however. It's the countries who set up the weather alert sirens. The next county over apparently did that, but this county did not. And the Governor is toxic.

Why can’t a camp have a warning system? I mean I agree it would be better if the county had it, but why can’t a camp set up a siren or something that the first person who realizes something is amiss can activate, the way a fire alarm gets activated by the first person who sees flames.

You would still need someone paying attention for watches and warnings from NWS, it wouldn’t be automatic, but it would be better than putting little girls to bed in a flood plain where there had been 4 catastrophic floods in 99 years, and then going to bed during a flash flood watch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a central Texan, a Democrat, a lifelong visitor to Kerrville, a former camper there, a prospective retiree to the area, and a friend and relative to many who have been impacted by this - I don't cast blame anywhere. There is so much complicated history and culture in that area of the state that is hard to understand from the outside. The external criticism will only make it more insular.

And blame is beside the point in any case. I know people can't help themselves though.

No doubt there will be an implementation of more effective warning signals along the Guadalupe river - like sirens. There is little to no cell service (on purpose) so they may also increase cell tower numbers. However the sirens will only be as effective as the NWS data and the alertness of local officials. Mystic and the other impacted camps are where the kids of the most influential families in the state spend their summer so there will be changes but they will not blame the camps. However, my guess is that at least one or more will have to shutter completely because they are not the most financially stable organizations in this day and age.

You're ridiculous. Parents have already gone on record blaming the camp. Children have died, PP. You're not reading the situation well. Of course the governor and other officials are putting a brave face on it, but they're passing the buck. Parents of children who died WILL blame everyone in charge, and they will be entirely right!

I have not seen a thing that the governor said so I don’t even know what you’re talking about there nor do I care what he says. My point in my post is that there’s a lot of blaming going on by people who don’t really understand the full story. The parents can blame whoever they want. But my prediction is that the camps will not bear the brunt of it.

I’m unsure what else the camps were supposed to do other than what they did but that is where my ignorance comes in. I guess you can say they should not have relied on local officials but rather have direct communication with the NWS (if that is even a thing). Or they should have pressed harder for the warning sirens years ago. But again, the sirens only work if the local officials are doing their jobs and have the data they need. Or they could have put the cabins higher up even though the water has never in the camp history gotten that high much less that fast (and ditto to several other camps in the area.)

I also can’t emphasize enough that there are flash flood warnings often out there, but they are akin to stay home and don’t drive. Not evacuation orders. If you will note, there were no evacuation orders of any kind given by anyone thus the missing people all along the river, even in town, not just the camp.

And I’m going to assume that the person blaming the counselors is a troll. There are at least two counselors missing from Mystic. They were the counselors in the cabin that was most affected. I’ve personally heard stories about 19-year-old counselors who broke windows to get out and led their campers up to safety and sang songs with them under a tree in the dark in the pouring rain.

Ignorance indeed.

1. The Governor just said: "Now we know prayers work" - because not more peopled died, presumably? He's a big climate change denier. That remark just shows he won't accept any blame whatsoever and is desperately trying to squeeze praise out of this.

2. The county the camp is in refused to upgrade the flood warning system that they themselves identified as being old and inefficient. Apparently they've been debating it for years and nothing got done, because some middle managers thought funds should go elsewhere.

3. The camp should not have had cabins so low next to a river that is known to flood. Other camps did not have cabins set up so low.

So right off the bat, 24hrs after the tragedy, you have a Governor who is proud of the outcome, a county whose kids died because it refused to put in a better warning system (unlike the county next to it), and a camp with cabins too close to the river, unlike other camps.

YOU THINK THERE'S NO BLAME TO GO AROUND?

The camp should have had a warning system and a safety plan given how many they had at the camp. There is tons of blame but ultimately it’s on the camp.

No, the blame is spread equally. A camp cannot have a warning system: it can move cabins to higher ground and hold practice evacuations, however. It's the countries who set up the weather alert sirens. The next county over apparently did that, but this county did not. And the Governor is toxic.

Why can’t a camp have a warning system? I mean I agree it would be better if the county had it, but why can’t a camp set up a siren or something that the first person who realizes something is amiss can activate, the way a fire alarm gets activated by the first person who sees flames.

You would still need someone paying attention for watches and warnings from NWS, it wouldn’t be automatic, but it would be better than putting little girls to bed in a flood plain where there had been 4 catastrophic floods in 99 years, and then going to bed during a flash flood watch.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That video is so scary. The poor girls and their families. I can’t believe how little they look in their photos. I wouldn’t send a daughter that little to sleepaway. Not because I could predict flash flooding, but they just seem too little to go away. I know “it’s normal” in some families to send kids away that small, but that’s too little.

Yea, blame the parents (eyeroll).

My 9 year old is at sleepaway camp as we speak. Go away.

+1
When my 8 yr. old begged me to go to sleepaway camp, I was certain she was "too little" and worried the entire week she was gone. When we came to pick her up, she begged to stay for two more weeks. She had the time of her life and wound up going for three weeks every summer since then, until she was 17 and then she worked as a counselor there. It was a life-changing experience for her that I only wish I had tried as a child, but was too shy/scared/anxious. It would have empowered me so much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a central Texan, a Democrat, a lifelong visitor to Kerrville, a former camper there, a prospective retiree to the area, and a friend and relative to many who have been impacted by this - I don't cast blame anywhere. There is so much complicated history and culture in that area of the state that is hard to understand from the outside. The external criticism will only make it more insular.

And blame is beside the point in any case. I know people can't help themselves though.

No doubt there will be an implementation of more effective warning signals along the Guadalupe river - like sirens. There is little to no cell service (on purpose) so they may also increase cell tower numbers. However the sirens will only be as effective as the NWS data and the alertness of local officials. Mystic and the other impacted camps are where the kids of the most influential families in the state spend their summer so there will be changes but they will not blame the camps. However, my guess is that at least one or more will have to shutter completely because they are not the most financially stable organizations in this day and age.

You're ridiculous. Parents have already gone on record blaming the camp. Children have died, PP. You're not reading the situation well. Of course the governor and other officials are putting a brave face on it, but they're passing the buck. Parents of children who died WILL blame everyone in charge, and they will be entirely right!

I have not seen a thing that the governor said so I don’t even know what you’re talking about there nor do I care what he says. My point in my post is that there’s a lot of blaming going on by people who don’t really understand the full story. The parents can blame whoever they want. But my prediction is that the camps will not bear the brunt of it.

I’m unsure what else the camps were supposed to do other than what they did but that is where my ignorance comes in. I guess you can say they should not have relied on local officials but rather have direct communication with the NWS (if that is even a thing). Or they should have pressed harder for the warning sirens years ago. But again, the sirens only work if the local officials are doing their jobs and have the data they need. Or they could have put the cabins higher up even though the water has never in the camp history gotten that high much less that fast (and ditto to several other camps in the area.)

I also can’t emphasize enough that there are flash flood warnings often out there, but they are akin to stay home and don’t drive. Not evacuation orders. If you will note, there were no evacuation orders of any kind given by anyone thus the missing people all along the river, even in town, not just the camp.

And I’m going to assume that the person blaming the counselors is a troll. There are at least two counselors missing from Mystic. They were the counselors in the cabin that was most affected. I’ve personally heard stories about 19-year-old counselors who broke windows to get out and led their campers up to safety and sang songs with them under a tree in the dark in the pouring rain.

Ignorance indeed.

1. The Governor just said: "Now we know prayers work" - because not more peopled died, presumably? He's a big climate change denier. That remark just shows he won't accept any blame whatsoever and is desperately trying to squeeze praise out of this.

2. The county the camp is in refused to upgrade the flood warning system that they themselves identified as being old and inefficient. Apparently they've been debating it for years and nothing got done, because some middle managers thought funds should go elsewhere.

3. The camp should not have had cabins so low next to a river that is known to flood. Other camps did not have cabins set up so low.

So right off the bat, 24hrs after the tragedy, you have a Governor who is proud of the outcome, a county whose kids died because it refused to put in a better warning system (unlike the county next to it), and a camp with cabins too close to the river, unlike other camps.

YOU THINK THERE'S NO BLAME TO GO AROUND?

The camp should have had a warning system and a safety plan given how many they had at the camp. There is tons of blame but ultimately it’s on the camp.

No, the blame is spread equally. A camp cannot have a warning system: it can move cabins to higher ground and hold practice evacuations, however. It's the countries who set up the weather alert sirens. The next county over apparently did that, but this county did not. And the Governor is toxic.

Why can’t a camp have a warning system? I mean I agree it would be better if the county had it, but why can’t a camp set up a siren or something that the first person who realizes something is amiss can activate, the way a fire alarm gets activated by the first person who sees flames.

You would still need someone paying attention for watches and warnings from NWS, it wouldn’t be automatic, but it would be better than putting little girls to bed in a flood plain where there had been 4 catastrophic floods in 99 years, and then going to bed during a flash flood watch.

They can and should plus emergency calls as anything can happen.

[Anonymous]

That camp is going to get the f&ck sued out of them.
But on a different note, I am so, so sad for all the families who lost people, especially children. I can't stop thinking about all those little girls drowning. It's horrific.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a central Texan, a Democrat, a lifelong visitor to Kerrville, a former camper there, a prospective retiree to the area, and a friend and relative to many who have been impacted by this - I don't cast blame anywhere. There is so much complicated history and culture in that area of the state that is hard to understand from the outside. The external criticism will only make it more insular.

And blame is beside the point in any case. I know people can't help themselves though.

No doubt there will be an implementation of more effective warning signals along the Guadalupe river - like sirens. There is little to no cell service (on purpose) so they may also increase cell tower numbers. However the sirens will only be as effective as the NWS data and the alertness of local officials. Mystic and the other impacted camps are where the kids of the most influential families in the state spend their summer so there will be changes but they will not blame the camps. However, my guess is that at least one or more will have to shutter completely because they are not the most financially stable organizations in this day and age.

Can you elaborate on the “complicated history and culture” of the area?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a central Texan, a Democrat, a lifelong visitor to Kerrville, a former camper there, a prospective retiree to the area, and a friend and relative to many who have been impacted by this - I don't cast blame anywhere. There is so much complicated history and culture in that area of the state that is hard to understand from the outside. The external criticism will only make it more insular.

And blame is beside the point in any case. I know people can't help themselves though.

No doubt there will be an implementation of more effective warning signals along the Guadalupe river - like sirens. There is little to no cell service (on purpose) so they may also increase cell tower numbers. However the sirens will only be as effective as the NWS data and the alertness of local officials. Mystic and the other impacted camps are where the kids of the most influential families in the state spend their summer so there will be changes but they will not blame the camps. However, my guess is that at least one or more will have to shutter completely because they are not the most financially stable organizations in this day and age.

You're ridiculous. Parents have already gone on record blaming the camp. Children have died, PP. You're not reading the situation well. Of course the governor and other officials are putting a brave face on it, but they're passing the buck. Parents of children who died WILL blame everyone in charge, and they will be entirely right!

I have not seen a thing that the governor said so I don’t even know what you’re talking about there nor do I care what he says. My point in my post is that there’s a lot of blaming going on by people who don’t really understand the full story. The parents can blame whoever they want. But my prediction is that the camps will not bear the brunt of it.

I’m unsure what else the camps were supposed to do other than what they did but that is where my ignorance comes in. I guess you can say they should not have relied on local officials but rather have direct communication with the NWS (if that is even a thing). Or they should have pressed harder for the warning sirens years ago. But again, the sirens only work if the local officials are doing their jobs and have the data they need. Or they could have put the cabins higher up even though the water has never in the camp history gotten that high much less that fast (and ditto to several other camps in the area.)

I also can’t emphasize enough that there are flash flood warnings often out there, but they are akin to stay home and don’t drive. Not evacuation orders. If you will note, there were no evacuation orders of any kind given by anyone thus the missing people all along the river, even in town, not just the camp.

And I’m going to assume that the person blaming the counselors is a troll. There are at least two counselors missing from Mystic. They were the counselors in the cabin that was most affected. I’ve personally heard stories about 19-year-old counselors who broke windows to get out and led their campers up to safety and sang songs with them under a tree in the dark in the pouring rain.

Ignorance indeed.

1. The Governor just said: "Now we know prayers work" - because not more peopled died, presumably? He's a big climate change denier. That remark just shows he won't accept any blame whatsoever and is desperately trying to squeeze praise out of this.

2. The county the camp is in refused to upgrade the flood warning system that they themselves identified as being old and inefficient. Apparently they've been debating it for years and nothing got done, because some middle managers thought funds should go elsewhere.

3. The camp should not have had cabins so low next to a river that is known to flood. Other camps did not have cabins set up so low.

So right off the bat, 24hrs after the tragedy, you have a Governor who is proud of the outcome, a county whose kids died because it refused to put in a better warning system (unlike the county next to it), and a camp with cabins too close to the river, unlike other camps.

YOU THINK THERE'S NO BLAME TO GO AROUND?

The camp should have had a warning system and a safety plan given how many they had at the camp. There is tons of blame but ultimately it’s on the camp.

No, the blame is spread equally. A camp cannot have a warning system: it can move cabins to higher ground and hold practice evacuations, however. It's the countries who set up the weather alert sirens. The next county over apparently did that, but this county did not. And the Governor is toxic.

Why can’t a camp have a warning system? I mean I agree it would be better if the county had it, but why can’t a camp set up a siren or something that the first person who realizes something is amiss can activate, the way a fire alarm gets activated by the first person who sees flames.

You would still need someone paying attention for watches and warnings from NWS, it wouldn’t be automatic, but it would be better than putting little girls to bed in a flood plain where there had been 4 catastrophic floods in 99 years, and then going to bed during a flash flood watch.

PP you replied to. Because it's simply way too expensive. Warning systems are linked to official meteorological stations and need computer models, rain gauges, automatic readings of same, distribution of alerts, digital and mechanical, and personnel that's trained to monitor the system 24/7. A camp could never, ever afford something like that. The smallest met warning systems are county systems, integrated into emergency management offices. Which that county refused to upgrade. Hence why the county is very much to blame!

The county needs a state-of-the-art system, and when it activates, each hospital, nursing home, school, workplace, summer camp, etc, have their own evac procedure. That's how it's usually done.

Make no mistake, people. There's a ton of blame to be handed out to all levels of government plus the camp.