CORONAVIRUS/COVID-19 NEW MEGA THREAD

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/18/bill-ackman-pleads-to-trump-to-increase-closures-to-save-the-economy-shut-it-down-now.html

He's being a little overly dramatic.

No matter what happens, this is a time limited event. When it is over, people will go on trips again and will stay at hotels.

Many old people will die, which means a transfer of wealth to their heirs. There will be less burden on pension plans and on Social Security as well.

The one business I DO think this event will be the death knell for, is colleges. Many were poised to go out of business already. With a switch to intensive online instruction for thre rest of the year, I think many will not reopen.

I've thought about this too. I think colleges will re-open, that colleges need face to face interaction and exchange of ideas. But I think many will close permanently, not become online colleges. I think this might solve the problem of too many people going to college and too much debt, because fewer people will go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m pinning my hopes on rapid vaccine development.

You are hoping in vain. If we don't lock down our country, more than a million Americans will die of this virus.

I didn't take this seriously until a week ago when it started to become clear that the numbers were increasing exponentially, as they did in Italy, which is both locked down and has an extremely high number of cases and deaths.

We are a much larger country. The death count will be much higher.

We all have to stay inside and stay away from others. It's painful for everyone, moreso for the poor and elderly, but we need to reduce the number of cases and deaths.

The Orange Idiot said this was going to go away by magic by April 1st. He called it a Democratic Hoax. He refused to do what needed to be done to prevent exactly what's happening here now, despite very good models in South Korea and Hong Kong, and the disaster unfolding in Italy.

But the OI lied and lied and lied to the American people, fiddling while Rome burns.

This is an unprecedented health and economic disaster.

650,000 Americans die of heart disease every year.

If a million die of this virus, there will be a huge overlap between that 1 million and the annual 650,000 deaths from heart disease (the virus is very bad for those with advanced heart disease).

It’s actually estimated to be 2.2 million over May and June if we keep half-a’ing the social distancing. 44,000 per state or an entire good sized town in every state.

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

If I'm reading the study correctly, the 2.2 million deaths in the US is if we do NOTHING to slow the progression of the virus.

But even so, that's a lot of projected deaths over a short period. The study says increasing ICU beds would help (hard to do), but social distancing of the entire population is likely the best way to control the outbreak until a vaccine is developed.

Was this the study presented at the WH yesterday?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m pinning my hopes on rapid vaccine development.

You are hoping in vain. If we don't lock down our country, more than a million Americans will die of this virus.

I didn't take this seriously until a week ago when it started to become clear that the numbers were increasing exponentially, as they did in Italy, which is both locked down and has an extremely high number of cases and deaths.

We are a much larger country. The death count will be much higher.

We all have to stay inside and stay away from others. It's painful for everyone, moreso for the poor and elderly, but we need to reduce the number of cases and deaths.

The Orange Idiot said this was going to go away by magic by April 1st. He called it a Democratic Hoax. He refused to do what needed to be done to prevent exactly what's happening here now, despite very good models in South Korea and Hong Kong, and the disaster unfolding in Italy.

But the OI lied and lied and lied to the American people, fiddling while Rome burns.

This is an unprecedented health and economic disaster.

650,000 Americans die of heart disease every year.

If a million die of this virus, there will be a huge overlap between that 1 million and the annual 650,000 deaths from heart disease (the virus is very bad for those with advanced heart disease).

Possibly. Or maybe there will be no overlap and we will just lose 15% on top of the other seniors who were already slated.

And you aren't counting all of the people in their 50s and 40s who may die of the coronavirus and/or complications and all the other people who die because the hospitals and medical facilities were full and couldn't receive treatment for all of their non-covid medical issues.

We do know there will be a large overlap because we know the people who are killed by the virus are primarily elderly (over 70, especially over 80) with multiple chronic health problems. The virus is speeding up their inevitable deaths. It's not and/or. The death rates for those below 70 is far, far lower and practically non existent for those below 50 (there are a few very rare instances). It's why France and Italy are now refusing to treat the very old and sick because they know they are going to die later this year or maybe next year.

In a sense it's likely better in the long run for a hard breakout killing more people more quickly over the next two months while the rest get sick and survives and develops the herd immunology. Delaying their inevitable deaths puts additional pressures on hospitals for a longer time and keeps the virus a threat for an even longer period.

This is easy to say in the abstract, but a lot harder when the elderly person in question is your Dad or Grandma or beloved aunt. Every day of life is precious. We don't want them dying a moment before God calls them. This virus is pushing their deaths much sooner than otherwise.

[Anonymous]

“Before god calls them”? WTF kind of crap is that. This is the health forum.

Is there any forum here without these nutters?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m pinning my hopes on rapid vaccine development.

You are hoping in vain. If we don't lock down our country, more than a million Americans will die of this virus.

I didn't take this seriously until a week ago when it started to become clear that the numbers were increasing exponentially, as they did in Italy, which is both locked down and has an extremely high number of cases and deaths.

We are a much larger country. The death count will be much higher.

We all have to stay inside and stay away from others. It's painful for everyone, moreso for the poor and elderly, but we need to reduce the number of cases and deaths.

The Orange Idiot said this was going to go away by magic by April 1st. He called it a Democratic Hoax. He refused to do what needed to be done to prevent exactly what's happening here now, despite very good models in South Korea and Hong Kong, and the disaster unfolding in Italy.

But the OI lied and lied and lied to the American people, fiddling while Rome burns.

This is an unprecedented health and economic disaster.

650,000 Americans die of heart disease every year.

If a million die of this virus, there will be a huge overlap between that 1 million and the annual 650,000 deaths from heart disease (the virus is very bad for those with advanced heart disease).

Possibly. Or maybe there will be no overlap and we will just lose 15% on top of the other seniors who were already slated.

And you aren't counting all of the people in their 50s and 40s who may die of the coronavirus and/or complications and all the other people who die because the hospitals and medical facilities were full and couldn't receive treatment for all of their non-covid medical issues.

We do know there will be a large overlap because we know the people who are killed by the virus are primarily elderly (over 70, especially over 80) with multiple chronic health problems. The virus is speeding up their inevitable deaths. It's not and/or. The death rates for those below 70 is far, far lower and practically non existent for those below 50 (there are a few very rare instances). It's why France and Italy are now refusing to treat the very old and sick because they know they are going to die later this year or maybe next year.

In a sense it's likely better in the long run for a hard breakout killing more people more quickly over the next two months while the rest get sick and survives and develops the herd immunology. Delaying their inevitable deaths puts additional pressures on hospitals for a longer time and keeps the virus a threat for an even longer period.

This is easy to say in the abstract, but a lot harder when the elderly person in question is your Dad or Grandma or beloved aunt. Every day of life is precious. We don't want them dying a moment before God calls them. This virus is pushing their deaths much sooner than otherwise.

Unfortunately we may be required to deal with these problems in the abstract. We have crippled the global economy. We can't throw tens and tens of millions of people out of work and destroy their livelihood and make them lose their homes and even become homeless just to save a few elderly people. That is the hard choice we are going to have to face in due time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“Before god calls them”? WTF kind of crap is that. This is the health forum.

Is there any forum here without these nutters?

You are an idiot (and a jerk)! PP probably meant before their time. Just because you are over 60 or 70 doesn’t mean that you are on the brink of death. Some people may live decades more if they don’t succumb to this virus. Why can’t they have that chance?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“Before god calls them”? WTF kind of crap is that. This is the health forum.

Is there any forum here without these nutters?

It's a figure of speech. Grow up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m pinning my hopes on rapid vaccine development.

You are hoping in vain. If we don't lock down our country, more than a million Americans will die of this virus.

I didn't take this seriously until a week ago when it started to become clear that the numbers were increasing exponentially, as they did in Italy, which is both locked down and has an extremely high number of cases and deaths.

We are a much larger country. The death count will be much higher.

We all have to stay inside and stay away from others. It's painful for everyone, moreso for the poor and elderly, but we need to reduce the number of cases and deaths.

The Orange Idiot said this was going to go away by magic by April 1st. He called it a Democratic Hoax. He refused to do what needed to be done to prevent exactly what's happening here now, despite very good models in South Korea and Hong Kong, and the disaster unfolding in Italy.

But the OI lied and lied and lied to the American people, fiddling while Rome burns.

This is an unprecedented health and economic disaster.

650,000 Americans die of heart disease every year.

If a million die of this virus, there will be a huge overlap between that 1 million and the annual 650,000 deaths from heart disease (the virus is very bad for those with advanced heart disease).

Possibly. Or maybe there will be no overlap and we will just lose 15% on top of the other seniors who were already slated.

And you aren't counting all of the people in their 50s and 40s who may die of the coronavirus and/or complications and all the other people who die because the hospitals and medical facilities were full and couldn't receive treatment for all of their non-covid medical issues.

We do know there will be a large overlap because we know the people who are killed by the virus are primarily elderly (over 70, especially over 80) with multiple chronic health problems. The virus is speeding up their inevitable deaths. It's not and/or. The death rates for those below 70 is far, far lower and practically non existent for those below 50 (there are a few very rare instances). It's why France and Italy are now refusing to treat the very old and sick because they know they are going to die later this year or maybe next year.

In a sense it's likely better in the long run for a hard breakout killing more people more quickly over the next two months while the rest get sick and survives and develops the herd immunology. Delaying their inevitable deaths puts additional pressures on hospitals for a longer time and keeps the virus a threat for an even longer period.

This is easy to say in the abstract, but a lot harder when the elderly person in question is your Dad or Grandma or beloved aunt. Every day of life is precious. We don't want them dying a moment before God calls them. This virus is pushing their deaths much sooner than otherwise.

Unfortunately we may be required to deal with these problems in the abstract. We have crippled the global economy. We can't throw tens and tens of millions of people out of work and destroy their livelihood and make them lose their homes and even become homeless just to save a few elderly people. That is the hard choice we are going to have to face in due time.

Its not just "a few" but I understand what you are trying to say. Its a balance for sure. I'm worried how long it will take for the economy to recover (and for some households to recover financially if they even can) if this continues indefinitely. Its crazy to act like that doesn't matter at all.

[Anonymous]

Deborah Birx (White House coronavirus coordinator) said today that reports coming from Italy and France show young people starting to come down with severe symptoms and ending up in the ICU.

This is only beginning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Deborah Birx (White House coronavirus coordinator) said today that reports coming from Italy and France show young people starting to come down with severe symptoms and ending up in the ICU.

This is only beginning.

Dum dum dum...queue the doomsday music.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Before god calls them”? WTF kind of crap is that. This is the health forum.

Is there any forum here without these nutters?

You are an idiot (and a jerk)! PP probably meant before their time. Just because you are over 60 or 70 doesn’t mean that you are on the brink of death. Some people may live decades more if they don’t succumb to this virus. Why can’t they have that chance?

I agree - let’s try to protect the elderly, but can we lose the nonsense language?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Deborah Birx (White House coronavirus coordinator) said today that reports coming from Italy and France show young people starting to come down with severe symptoms and ending up in the ICU.

This is only beginning.

Ugh that’s really terrifying.

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately we may be required to deal with these problems in the abstract. We have crippled the global economy. We can't throw tens and tens of millions of people out of work and destroy their livelihood and make them lose their homes and even become homeless just to save a few elderly people. That is the hard choice we are going to have to face in due time.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

You should be an insurance actuary. Or an airline executive, where they do calculations of how much a particular part or repair costs vs. the value of human lives.

Sorry but I think my immuno supressed 70 year old dad is worth saving. As is my cerebral palsy stricken, 30 year old brother. Unemployment can be fixed; remember the WPA? Death, alas, is permanent.

Am I worth saving? I'm only 50 but I have an underlying condition. But I also have two kids who are still young enough to need their mom. Alive, even if unemployed.

[Anonymous]

Australia issues an indefinite level 4 worldwide travel ban but won't close schools or senior homes to visitors

What the heck

[Anonymous]

We all should be putting travel vans in place. What good does it do to leave the borders open while everyone here already locks down?