Smart Restart APS- ventilation studies

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think we will into yellow before MS/HS starts.

I think Duran will stick to the current plan.

Yellow? We’re not even close to orange yet. Doubtful.

DP. We are already into yellow on a positivity basis, and will probably get into orange on a 7-day cases basis in the next week. So while I'm not sure pp is correct we will be fully into yellow by March 9, I think there is a good change we will at least be very close. We were there over the summer, we can get there again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think we will into yellow before MS/HS starts.

I think Duran will stick to the current plan.

Yellow? We’re not even close to orange yet. Doubtful.

DP. We are already into yellow on a positivity basis, and will probably get into orange on a 7-day cases basis in the next week. So while I'm not sure pp is correct we will be fully into yellow by March 9, I think there is a good change we will at least be very close. We were there over the summer, we can get there again.

I thought you meant under CDC guidelines. For those we are not near yellow

[Anonymous]

Practically speaking, it rains a lot here. Even if they purchased and set up new picnic tables where the trailers were at WMS, the seats would be wet 2 days out of 4. And, as summer approaches, there would be a lot of hot days with no shade. So fine, purchase or fundraise for tables and chairs, for those opportune outdoor lunch days, but realize the kids will have to eat inside at some point.

Bishop O'Connell, just blocks away, has had indoor lunches in the cafeteria, with kids spread apart six feet, for six months. There has been no school based transmission. Call that anecdotal, disregard it, whatever. But I am comfortable with this lunch risk at WMS. I get that people are not comfortable with this. The virtual option is available for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren't people here saying elementary school shouldn't be going back either until CPC guidelines are met? I didn't think the complaining parents on here are limited to middle and high school because safety doesn't matter for their elementary kids, but maybe I misunderstood. It's a long thread and I haven't read all of it.

I certainly don't mean to gaslight. And I did not mean to suggest that, for example, elementary kids shouldn't go back until high schools met the required standards -- that was bad phrasing on my part and I apologize.

A lot of different thoughts in this thread. Here's my understanding of what it seems a lot of people are saying: elementary should go back in March because the CDC guidelines allow for it, even though Arlington is the "red" or highest level. But before going back in early March, it would be great if the correct number of air filters/purifiers could be properly placed in each APS classroom (some classrooms may need more than one to achieve the ideal 4-6 air exchanges per hour because of the size of those classrooms, although most classrooms are fine with just one). It also would be great if APS could implement a better lunch plan before early March , with no kids eating in the cafeteria. Personally, I think all lunch should be outside. For MS and HS, the CDC guidelines raise a bigger question because they recommend only virtual learning for MS and HS in the "red" or highest level, unless APS has in place a comprehensive screening test system in place. It doesn't seem APS does, so it *could* necessitate a delay in re-opening MS and HS. But the same thing re ventilation and lunch would apply to MS and HS when they open, but perhaps even more acutely for lunch because many of the current lunch plans involve a lot of kids eating in a cafeteria.

Of course, some are saying to go back at all levels now, regardless of ventilation, lunch plans, or CDC guidelines.

I agree with a lot of your summary, but you’ve ignored the significant contingent arguing that schools should not reopen at all until we’ve met metrics that go well beyond the CDC guidelines. There are extremists on both sides.

You keep saying that, but I have yet to see anyone on this thread expressing that opinion.

I also don't see anyone saying we should completely disregard ventilation, lunch plans or CDC guidelines. But there are differences of opinions on what's safe enough when it comes to ventilation and lunch plans.

Well whenever several of us have brought up the need to change the hundred plus kids in the lunchroom, the response from certain posters is for us to stay home. I would say that is disregarding safety concerns.

I guess I was assuming that you 'knew' the hundred plus kids in the lunchroom was not true. APS has said repeatedly that lunch would be eaten in classrooms. Classrooms, which are spaced 6 feet apart and have 1/2 the students who are in person in them- so like between 6-12 students.
https://www.apsva.us/post/how-will-lunch-be-handled-during-in-person-instruction/

Why would I assume it’s not true when the information came straight out of our principal and facility managers mouth? Again would you like the link to the PTA meeting recording?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think we will into yellow before MS/HS starts.

I think Duran will stick to the current plan.

Yellow? We’re not even close to orange yet. Doubtful.

DP. We are already into yellow on a positivity basis, and will probably get into orange on a 7-day cases basis in the next week. So while I'm not sure pp is correct we will be fully into yellow by March 9, I think there is a good change we will at least be very close. We were there over the summer, we can get there again.

I thought you meant under CDC guidelines. For those we are not near yellow

Not on a new case basis (and I never said we were), but our positivity rates are in the yellow range. CDC guidelines say you look at the higher level of the case level and positivity level are different so we have to look at the higher case level for guidelines purposes, but having our positivity rates already in yellow bodes well for getting everything down.

[Anonymous]

I think elementary students are eating in classrooms. In secondary the principals have been clear it’s in the cafeterias.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Practically speaking, it rains a lot here. Even if they purchased and set up new picnic tables where the trailers were at WMS, the seats would be wet 2 days out of 4. And, as summer approaches, there would be a lot of hot days with no shade. So fine, purchase or fundraise for tables and chairs, for those opportune outdoor lunch days, but realize the kids will have to eat inside at some point.

Bishop O'Connell, just blocks away, has had indoor lunches in the cafeteria, with kids spread apart six feet, for six months. There has been no school based transmission. Call that anecdotal, disregard it, whatever. But I am comfortable with this lunch risk at WMS. I get that people are not comfortable with this. The virtual option is available for you.

O’Connell did have a nine-case outbreak recently. It’s rumored to be because of an outside party and not actually school-based, but no one knows that for sure. So while I generally agree with the broader principles, I don’t think we can be so absolute in the details.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think elementary students are eating in classrooms. In secondary the principals have been clear it’s in the cafeterias.

Yes, elementary is in classrooms, secondary in common areas. They can’t do secondary lunches in classrooms because classrooms are being used by other classes during the lunch periods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Practically speaking, it rains a lot here. Even if they purchased and set up new picnic tables where the trailers were at WMS, the seats would be wet 2 days out of 4. And, as summer approaches, there would be a lot of hot days with no shade. So fine, purchase or fundraise for tables and chairs, for those opportune outdoor lunch days, but realize the kids will have to eat inside at some point.

Bishop O'Connell, just blocks away, has had indoor lunches in the cafeteria, with kids spread apart six feet, for six months. There has been no school based transmission. Call that anecdotal, disregard it, whatever. But I am comfortable with this lunch risk at WMS. I get that people are not comfortable with this. The virtual option is available for you.

O’Connell did have a nine-case outbreak recently. It’s rumored to be because of an outside party and not actually school-based, but no one knows that for sure. So while I generally agree with the broader principles, I don’t think we can be so absolute in the details.

I believe that’s the Halloween party that impacted multiple private schools.

[Anonymous]

Okay, I'll pretend that the BO cases were not from a Halloween party.
How do you account for the fact that four days a week they eat lunch inside and there were ONLY 9 cases in six months? Under your theory that indoor lunches, six feet apart, for 15 maskless minutes is a superspreader event, how have they not had MORE than 9 cases?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Practically speaking, it rains a lot here. Even if they purchased and set up new picnic tables where the trailers were at WMS, the seats would be wet 2 days out of 4. And, as summer approaches, there would be a lot of hot days with no shade. So fine, purchase or fundraise for tables and chairs, for those opportune outdoor lunch days, but realize the kids will have to eat inside at some point.

Bishop O'Connell, just blocks away, has had indoor lunches in the cafeteria, with kids spread apart six feet, for six months. There has been no school based transmission. Call that anecdotal, disregard it, whatever. But I am comfortable with this lunch risk at WMS. I get that people are not comfortable with this. The virtual option is available for you.

O’Connell did have a nine-case outbreak recently. It’s rumored to be because of an outside party and not actually school-based, but no one knows that for sure. So while I generally agree with the broader principles, I don’t think we can be so absolute in the details.

I believe that’s the Halloween party that impacted multiple private schools.

I think it may be related to that, but the details don't quite square with the reporting. All of the reporting I found on that gathering said two BOC students tested positive, but the outbreak was reported to VDH as involving nine cases. So either more than two people tested positive right after that party and BOC didn't update its release, or the outbreak isn't just about the party itself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren't people here saying elementary school shouldn't be going back either until CPC guidelines are met? I didn't think the complaining parents on here are limited to middle and high school because safety doesn't matter for their elementary kids, but maybe I misunderstood. It's a long thread and I haven't read all of it.

I certainly don't mean to gaslight. And I did not mean to suggest that, for example, elementary kids shouldn't go back until high schools met the required standards -- that was bad phrasing on my part and I apologize.

A lot of different thoughts in this thread. Here's my understanding of what it seems a lot of people are saying: elementary should go back in March because the CDC guidelines allow for it, even though Arlington is the "red" or highest level. But before going back in early March, it would be great if the correct number of air filters/purifiers could be properly placed in each APS classroom (some classrooms may need more than one to achieve the ideal 4-6 air exchanges per hour because of the size of those classrooms, although most classrooms are fine with just one). It also would be great if APS could implement a better lunch plan before early March , with no kids eating in the cafeteria. Personally, I think all lunch should be outside. For MS and HS, the CDC guidelines raise a bigger question because they recommend only virtual learning for MS and HS in the "red" or highest level, unless APS has in place a comprehensive screening test system in place. It doesn't seem APS does, so it *could* necessitate a delay in re-opening MS and HS. But the same thing re ventilation and lunch would apply to MS and HS when they open, but perhaps even more acutely for lunch because many of the current lunch plans involve a lot of kids eating in a cafeteria.

Of course, some are saying to go back at all levels now, regardless of ventilation, lunch plans, or CDC guidelines.

I agree with a lot of your summary, but you’ve ignored the significant contingent arguing that schools should not reopen at all until we’ve met metrics that go well beyond the CDC guidelines. There are extremists on both sides.

You keep saying that, but I have yet to see anyone on this thread expressing that opinion.

I also don't see anyone saying we should completely disregard ventilation, lunch plans or CDC guidelines. But there are differences of opinions on what's safe enough when it comes to ventilation and lunch plans.

Well whenever several of us have brought up the need to change the hundred plus kids in the lunchroom, the response from certain posters is for us to stay home. I would say that is disregarding safety concerns.

I guess I was assuming that you 'knew' the hundred plus kids in the lunchroom was not true. APS has said repeatedly that lunch would be eaten in classrooms. Classrooms, which are spaced 6 feet apart and have 1/2 the students who are in person in them- so like between 6-12 students.
https://www.apsva.us/post/how-will-lunch-be-handled-during-in-person-instruction/

Why would I assume it’s not true when the information came straight out of our principal and facility managers mouth? Again would you like the link to the PTA meeting recording?

okay- since Williamsburg is the bee in your bonnet lets assume that eating at Williamsburg is restricted to the cafeteria. The williamsburg cafeteria has a capacity for 541 students at a time.

Williamsburg current enrollment is 894. 1/2 pick virtual, we are at 450. 1/2 of those attend on any given day, we are at 225. Those 225 are divided into three lunch periods- 75 students eating lunch at a time, in a room designed to fit 541. That doesn't sound so bad to me?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren't people here saying elementary school shouldn't be going back either until CPC guidelines are met? I didn't think the complaining parents on here are limited to middle and high school because safety doesn't matter for their elementary kids, but maybe I misunderstood. It's a long thread and I haven't read all of it.

I certainly don't mean to gaslight. And I did not mean to suggest that, for example, elementary kids shouldn't go back until high schools met the required standards -- that was bad phrasing on my part and I apologize.

A lot of different thoughts in this thread. Here's my understanding of what it seems a lot of people are saying: elementary should go back in March because the CDC guidelines allow for it, even though Arlington is the "red" or highest level. But before going back in early March, it would be great if the correct number of air filters/purifiers could be properly placed in each APS classroom (some classrooms may need more than one to achieve the ideal 4-6 air exchanges per hour because of the size of those classrooms, although most classrooms are fine with just one). It also would be great if APS could implement a better lunch plan before early March , with no kids eating in the cafeteria. Personally, I think all lunch should be outside. For MS and HS, the CDC guidelines raise a bigger question because they recommend only virtual learning for MS and HS in the "red" or highest level, unless APS has in place a comprehensive screening test system in place. It doesn't seem APS does, so it *could* necessitate a delay in re-opening MS and HS. But the same thing re ventilation and lunch would apply to MS and HS when they open, but perhaps even more acutely for lunch because many of the current lunch plans involve a lot of kids eating in a cafeteria.

Of course, some are saying to go back at all levels now, regardless of ventilation, lunch plans, or CDC guidelines.

I agree with a lot of your summary, but you’ve ignored the significant contingent arguing that schools should not reopen at all until we’ve met metrics that go well beyond the CDC guidelines. There are extremists on both sides.

You keep saying that, but I have yet to see anyone on this thread expressing that opinion.

I also don't see anyone saying we should completely disregard ventilation, lunch plans or CDC guidelines. But there are differences of opinions on what's safe enough when it comes to ventilation and lunch plans.

Well whenever several of us have brought up the need to change the hundred plus kids in the lunchroom, the response from certain posters is for us to stay home. I would say that is disregarding safety concerns.

I guess I was assuming that you 'knew' the hundred plus kids in the lunchroom was not true. APS has said repeatedly that lunch would be eaten in classrooms. Classrooms, which are spaced 6 feet apart and have 1/2 the students who are in person in them- so like between 6-12 students.
https://www.apsva.us/post/how-will-lunch-be-handled-during-in-person-instruction/

Why would I assume it’s not true when the information came straight out of our principal and facility managers mouth? Again would you like the link to the PTA meeting recording?

okay- since Williamsburg is the bee in your bonnet lets assume that eating at Williamsburg is restricted to the cafeteria. The williamsburg cafeteria has a capacity for 541 students at a time.

Williamsburg current enrollment is 894. 1/2 pick virtual, we are at 450. 1/2 of those attend on any given day, we are at 225. Those 225 are divided into three lunch periods- 75 students eating lunch at a time, in a room designed to fit 541. That doesn't sound so bad to me?

You don't need to do the math. The principal said 100+ kids in the cafeteria at at time. Multiple shifts, so the last shift (since the virus is airborne) is at most risk. Also, 70% of WMS students chose hybrid. principa

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Practically speaking, it rains a lot here. Even if they purchased and set up new picnic tables where the trailers were at WMS, the seats would be wet 2 days out of 4. And, as summer approaches, there would be a lot of hot days with no shade. So fine, purchase or fundraise for tables and chairs, for those opportune outdoor lunch days, but realize the kids will have to eat inside at some point.

Bishop O'Connell, just blocks away, has had indoor lunches in the cafeteria, with kids spread apart six feet, for six months. There has been no school based transmission. Call that anecdotal, disregard it, whatever. But I am comfortable with this lunch risk at WMS. I get that people are not comfortable with this. The virtual option is available for you.

Middle and high schools have said they will have 100+in their cafeterias. Not speculation. Watch the WMS meeting. Ask someone at Wakefield or Yorktown. I shouldn’t find it shocking that parents on here and APS think that your kid should have to eat lunch in a room with 100 kids AS A CONDITION of attending in person school. But I do find it shocking. Every secondary school should offer an outdoor option. Period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren't people here saying elementary school shouldn't be going back either until CPC guidelines are met? I didn't think the complaining parents on here are limited to middle and high school because safety doesn't matter for their elementary kids, but maybe I misunderstood. It's a long thread and I haven't read all of it.

I certainly don't mean to gaslight. And I did not mean to suggest that, for example, elementary kids shouldn't go back until high schools met the required standards -- that was bad phrasing on my part and I apologize.

A lot of different thoughts in this thread. Here's my understanding of what it seems a lot of people are saying: elementary should go back in March because the CDC guidelines allow for it, even though Arlington is the "red" or highest level. But before going back in early March, it would be great if the correct number of air filters/purifiers could be properly placed in each APS classroom (some classrooms may need more than one to achieve the ideal 4-6 air exchanges per hour because of the size of those classrooms, although most classrooms are fine with just one). It also would be great if APS could implement a better lunch plan before early March , with no kids eating in the cafeteria. Personally, I think all lunch should be outside. For MS and HS, the CDC guidelines raise a bigger question because they recommend only virtual learning for MS and HS in the "red" or highest level, unless APS has in place a comprehensive screening test system in place. It doesn't seem APS does, so it *could* necessitate a delay in re-opening MS and HS. But the same thing re ventilation and lunch would apply to MS and HS when they open, but perhaps even more acutely for lunch because many of the current lunch plans involve a lot of kids eating in a cafeteria.

Of course, some are saying to go back at all levels now, regardless of ventilation, lunch plans, or CDC guidelines.

I agree with a lot of your summary, but you’ve ignored the significant contingent arguing that schools should not reopen at all until we’ve met metrics that go well beyond the CDC guidelines. There are extremists on both sides.

You keep saying that, but I have yet to see anyone on this thread expressing that opinion.

I also don't see anyone saying we should completely disregard ventilation, lunch plans or CDC guidelines. But there are differences of opinions on what's safe enough when it comes to ventilation and lunch plans.

Well whenever several of us have brought up the need to change the hundred plus kids in the lunchroom, the response from certain posters is for us to stay home. I would say that is disregarding safety concerns.

I guess I was assuming that you 'knew' the hundred plus kids in the lunchroom was not true. APS has said repeatedly that lunch would be eaten in classrooms. Classrooms, which are spaced 6 feet apart and have 1/2 the students who are in person in them- so like between 6-12 students.
https://www.apsva.us/post/how-will-lunch-be-handled-during-in-person-instruction/

Why would I assume it’s not true when the information came straight out of our principal and facility managers mouth? Again would you like the link to the PTA meeting recording?

okay- since Williamsburg is the bee in your bonnet lets assume that eating at Williamsburg is restricted to the cafeteria. The williamsburg cafeteria has a capacity for 541 students at a time.

Williamsburg current enrollment is 894. 1/2 pick virtual, we are at 450. 1/2 of those attend on any given day, we are at 225. Those 225 are divided into three lunch periods- 75 students eating lunch at a time, in a room designed to fit 541. That doesn't sound so bad to me?

You don't need to do the math. The principal said 100+ kids in the cafeteria at at time. Multiple shifts, so the last shift (since the virus is airborne) is at most risk. Also, 70% of WMS students chose hybrid. principa

Have you been eating regularly in a room with 100 people? Has your kid?