J.K. Rowling’s post on trans-identity and modern misogyny

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting how this debate is only about trans women. Someone posted earlier upthread that no one cares about trans men. It all makes sense in terms of men "invading" a female space - even when they present as women, men still feel they have the right to define women in terms that best suit their agenda. We'd welcome you to the sisterhood with open arms if you weren't so intent on redefining an already occupied space.
Get your own space!

Basic TERFing right here.

No pp has a good point. Trans men seem totally fine with either, 1) being in a state of transition and being known as a Trans man, 2) using their female anatomy (menstruating/pregnancy) while presenting as a man and functioning as a trans man or 3) being fully transitioned and just being a man

Women are raised and conditioned to not intrusively take over spaces so I think this is women doing what they’re socialize to do and easing into being men. And trans women do what men do, intrusively enter and take over the space without carrying much about what was happening before they got there.

Just stop.

How many trans people do you know or interact with on a regular basis?

Absolutely zero. This is clearly obvious

Why do you two believe that there is an absence of a strong movement to call trans men men in any possible situation. Why there aren’t movements to talk about testicular cancer awareness in “people with pen!ses”?

So....zero?

My cousin is a transgender woman who I do not have these discussions with for a variety of reasons. I think this is more of an advocacy problem than something individual trans women fight for. Once fully transitioned a trans woman will be so integrated no one will know the difference. Now will you answer my question?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting how this debate is only about trans women. Someone posted earlier upthread that no one cares about trans men. It all makes sense in terms of men "invading" a female space - even when they present as women, men still feel they have the right to define women in terms that best suit their agenda. We'd welcome you to the sisterhood with open arms if you weren't so intent on redefining an already occupied space.
Get your own space!

Basic TERFing right here.

Except that it’s not...

Women have had to fight so hard for resources and safe spaces, it is disconcerting to see them disintegrating under the banner of trans inclusion.

Even on this thread it’s now considered exclusionary to say women menstruate or that women bear children and go through menopause. Historically, much of the fight for women’s rights have included oppression directly related to female biological functions. Girls not being able to attend school because of their periods. Child marriage and forced or coerced pregnancy. Maternity care. Sexual violence and rape and the risk of pregnancy. All of these issues are not inclusive of trans women but they very relevant to biological women. Recognizing that reality is not anti-trans. It’s actually the height of misogyny to expect biological women to give up all the progress we’ve made and the safe spaces we’ve created because it might not be inclusive enough or relevant to a trans woman’s experience.

Not even historically! Still! To this day!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s like being born a female and liking pink and expressing femininity is something bad. Like it needs to be purged and erased. Don’t do his to me. Don’t do this to the billions of women who think this way around the world. Women are still inunde el p,aging fields here. Heck we still don’t even have paid maternity leave in the freaking United States! Unlike some other countries. We get no propriety in society at all.

I accept you, trans or whatever you are. I love you. I admire you. I see you. But you must show the same regard to me. And also listen to the points here about how totally unfair it is to compete in our space, when we have struggle for so long to carve out our space, and gain some sense of traction in society.

How can you think trans women DON’T see and feel those same struggles as we do? Do you think they didn’t face struggles of their own growing up in an body they felt wasn’t theirs? That they didn’t face discrimination for who they are? Amazing you think YOUR womanhood is threatened or discounted by theirs.

Okay explain to me then why they don't want cis-women playing trans roles, you can't have it both ways, the struggle is not the same. And how anyone can support Jenner getting Woman of the Year, who is still a republican and before transitioning had never come out and supported LGBTQ issues is beyond me. She should have refused the award and I quote in acceptance speech, "“The hardest part about being a woman is figuring out what to wear.” F$$$ Y$$

Ugh, that just trivializes women. Jenner became a misogynist caricature of what men think women are. No, wearing heels and makeup and getting a boob job won't make you a woman. It is offensive.

Plenty of women choose to express themselves in a “feminine” way by wearing heels, wearing makeup, and getting boob jobs.

The fact that you are focusing on how Caitlin is expressing herself - and not millions of other women who do the exact same thing - says more about you than it does about her. You are singling her out in a bigoted way.

She has a very large platform. She uses it poorly

Caitlin? She can dress however TF she wants to dress. If you were to lump her together with the whole Kardashian clan who ALL overdo makeup and plastic surgery, then fine. But don’t single out just one of the women from that family.

If you meant JKR, I completely agree that she has been abusing her platform.

I’m not the poster who initially brought her up. My problem is that she came out as a woman and uses her platform to spread really hateful politics. And that she dates people 40 years younger. I just don’t like her as a person, nothing to do with being trans

Well the good news is that she doesn’t support Trump anymore.

More recently it looks like she’s spending a lot of time supporting women and pride month:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Caitlyn_Jenner

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Women have had to fight so hard for resources and safe spaces, it is disconcerting to see them disintegrating under the banner of trans inclusion.

Even on this thread it’s now considered exclusionary to say women menstruate or that women bear children and go through menopause. Historically, much of the fight for women’s rights have included oppression directly related to female biological functions. Girls not being able to attend school because of their periods. Child marriage and forced or coerced pregnancy. Maternity care. Sexual violence and rape and the risk of pregnancy. All of these issues are not inclusive of trans women but they very relevant to biological women. Recognizing that reality is not anti-trans. It’s actually the height of misogyny to expect biological women to give up all the progress we’ve made and the safe spaces we’ve created because it might not be inclusive enough or relevant to a trans woman’s experience.

This, 1,000 times over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting how this debate is only about trans women. Someone posted earlier upthread that no one cares about trans men. It all makes sense in terms of men "invading" a female space - even when they present as women, men still feel they have the right to define women in terms that best suit their agenda. We'd welcome you to the sisterhood with open arms if you weren't so intent on redefining an already occupied space.
Get your own space!

Basic TERFing right here.

Except that it’s not...

Women have had to fight so hard for resources and safe spaces, it is disconcerting to see them disintegrating under the banner of trans inclusion.

Even on this thread it’s now considered exclusionary to say women menstruate or that women bear children and go through menopause. Historically, much of the fight for women’s rights have included oppression directly related to female biological functions. Girls not being able to attend school because of their periods. Child marriage and forced or coerced pregnancy. Maternity care. Sexual violence and rape and the risk of pregnancy. All of these issues are not inclusive of trans women but they very relevant to biological women. Recognizing that reality is not anti-trans. It’s actually the height of misogyny to expect biological women to give up all the progress we’ve made and the safe spaces we’ve created because it might not be inclusive enough or relevant to a trans woman’s experience.

It’s TERF 101. No one is asking women to “give up” anything.

[Anonymous]

Everyone is acting like it’s so offensive that she said this during pride month. Let me tell you as a lesbian, so many of us are cheering her on. We’re not allowed to call our bars “for women” any more because apparently that offends non-binary people. I’ve literally seen posters saying such and such is a space for “non-men.” Are you kidding? We’re non-men now?

There’s also a lot of pressure to accept “girl d*ck” (their word, not ours). Most of us just quietly agree that we’re not interested and don’t say anything, but now in a lot of space we’re not even allowed to make lighthearted jokes about v*g because not all lesbians have that now. The activism of the 70s like the V*gna Monologues is censored on college campuses now, which is so regressive. There are also people who identify as he/him lesbians which... sigh

We also miss our butches, so many of whom have now begun to identify as men. For full grown adults to do that is fine but it hurts to see young girls who would have become masculine women transition to identify as men instead at very young ages, and I wonder if I were a teenager now if I’d be one of them.

Look, I KNOW that trans women have a really rough time. They’re the most violently targeted group within LGBT. I absolutely want to march with them for their safety, security, and freedom from discrimination. But the vast majority of violent attacks (all of them?) against trans women and trans men are committed by men. Straight men. But trans activists and allies have instead chosen to OBSESS about “TERFs” — ie women like JKR or like me who say “we support your right you live as you chose free of discrimination, but we also believe that in some cases XX women should be allowed their own spaces.”

Why is so much of the focus on women’s words and not men’s actions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting how this debate is only about trans women. Someone posted earlier upthread that no one cares about trans men. It all makes sense in terms of men "invading" a female space - even when they present as women, men still feel they have the right to define women in terms that best suit their agenda. We'd welcome you to the sisterhood with open arms if you weren't so intent on redefining an already occupied space.
Get your own space!

Basic TERFing right here.

No pp has a good point. Trans men seem totally fine with either, 1) being in a state of transition and being known as a Trans man, 2) using their female anatomy (menstruating/pregnancy) while presenting as a man and functioning as a trans man or 3) being fully transitioned and just being a man

Women are raised and conditioned to not intrusively take over spaces so I think this is women doing what they’re socialize to do and easing into being men. And trans women do what men do, intrusively enter and take over the space without carrying much about what was happening before they got there.

Just stop.

How many trans people do you know or interact with on a regular basis?

Absolutely zero. This is clearly obvious

Why do you two believe that there is an absence of a strong movement to call trans men men in any possible situation. Why there aren’t movements to talk about testicular cancer awareness in “people with pen!ses”?

So....zero?

My cousin is a transgender woman who I do not have these discussions with for a variety of reasons. I think this is more of an advocacy problem than something individual trans women fight for. Once fully transitioned a trans woman will be so integrated no one will know the difference. Now will you answer my question?

How often do you interact with her? What do you discuss?

Is she the only trans person you know?

[Anonymous]

Why does J.K. Rowling write using her initials, and then also write the C.B. Strike novels as Robert Galbraith, a pseudonym? Did she realize that she would have better luck as a male author? Does anyone see the irony in that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting how this debate is only about trans women. Someone posted earlier upthread that no one cares about trans men. It all makes sense in terms of men "invading" a female space - even when they present as women, men still feel they have the right to define women in terms that best suit their agenda. We'd welcome you to the sisterhood with open arms if you weren't so intent on redefining an already occupied space.
Get your own space!

Basic TERFing right here.

No pp has a good point. Trans men seem totally fine with either, 1) being in a state of transition and being known as a Trans man, 2) using their female anatomy (menstruating/pregnancy) while presenting as a man and functioning as a trans man or 3) being fully transitioned and just being a man

Women are raised and conditioned to not intrusively take over spaces so I think this is women doing what they’re socialize to do and easing into being men. And trans women do what men do, intrusively enter and take over the space without carrying much about what was happening before they got there.

Just stop.

How many trans people do you know or interact with on a regular basis?

Absolutely zero. This is clearly obvious

Why do you two believe that there is an absence of a strong movement to call trans men men in any possible situation. Why there aren’t movements to talk about testicular cancer awareness in “people with pen!ses”?

So....zero?

My cousin is a transgender woman who I do not have these discussions with for a variety of reasons. I think this is more of an advocacy problem than something individual trans women fight for. Once fully transitioned a trans woman will be so integrated no one will know the difference. Now will you answer my question?

How often do you interact with her? What do you discuss?

Is she the only trans person you know?

I’m not going to engage in a one sided conversation to prove that I’m entitled to my own mind and opinions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is so much of the focus on women’s words and not men’s actions?

What “men’s actions”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

How often do you interact with her? What do you discuss?

Is she the only trans person you know?

Not the PP you’re replying to. I know lots of both trans women and trans men. As a lesbian we run in the same circles. I still agree that sometimes XX women need our own spaces, and that it shouldn’t be taboo to admit that XX and XY have different biology. It’s almost as if people can disagree with you even when we’re just as (or more so, in my case, most likely) educated and informed on the topic than you are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting how this debate is only about trans women. Someone posted earlier upthread that no one cares about trans men. It all makes sense in terms of men "invading" a female space - even when they present as women, men still feel they have the right to define women in terms that best suit their agenda. We'd welcome you to the sisterhood with open arms if you weren't so intent on redefining an already occupied space.
Get your own space!

Basic TERFing right here.

No pp has a good point. Trans men seem totally fine with either, 1) being in a state of transition and being known as a Trans man, 2) using their female anatomy (menstruating/pregnancy) while presenting as a man and functioning as a trans man or 3) being fully transitioned and just being a man

Women are raised and conditioned to not intrusively take over spaces so I think this is women doing what they’re socialize to do and easing into being men. And trans women do what men do, intrusively enter and take over the space without carrying much about what was happening before they got there.

Just stop.

How many trans people do you know or interact with on a regular basis?

Absolutely zero. This is clearly obvious

Why do you two believe that there is an absence of a strong movement to call trans men men in any possible situation. Why there aren’t movements to talk about testicular cancer awareness in “people with pen!ses”?

So....zero?

My cousin is a transgender woman who I do not have these discussions with for a variety of reasons. I think this is more of an advocacy problem than something individual trans women fight for. Once fully transitioned a trans woman will be so integrated no one will know the difference. Now will you answer my question?

How often do you interact with her? What do you discuss?

Is she the only trans person you know?

I’m not going to engage in a one sided conversation to prove that I’m entitled to my own mind and opinions

But what knowledge and experience are you using to form those opinions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is so much of the focus on women’s words and not men’s actions?

What “men’s actions”?

Killing and taping trans women. I don’t see 1% the amount of coverage of that compared to the endless coverage of JKR writing a tweet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is so much of the focus on women’s words and not men’s actions?

What “men’s actions”?

Killing and taping trans women. I don’t see 1% the amount of coverage of that compared to the endless coverage of JKR writing a tweet.

I also don’t see a movement to rename men’s health issues “issues affecting spermhavers”, or to redefine gay bars to not say they are for men, etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting how this debate is only about trans women. Someone posted earlier upthread that no one cares about trans men. It all makes sense in terms of men "invading" a female space - even when they present as women, men still feel they have the right to define women in terms that best suit their agenda. We'd welcome you to the sisterhood with open arms if you weren't so intent on redefining an already occupied space.
Get your own space!

Basic TERFing right here.

Except that it’s not...

Women have had to fight so hard for resources and safe spaces, it is disconcerting to see them disintegrating under the banner of trans inclusion.

Even on this thread it’s now considered exclusionary to say women menstruate or that women bear children and go through menopause. Historically, much of the fight for women’s rights have included oppression directly related to female biological functions. Girls not being able to attend school because of their periods. Child marriage and forced or coerced pregnancy. Maternity care. Sexual violence and rape and the risk of pregnancy. All of these issues are not inclusive of trans women but they very relevant to biological women. Recognizing that reality is not anti-trans. It’s actually the height of misogyny to expect biological women to give up all the progress we’ve made and the safe spaces we’ve created because it might not be inclusive enough or relevant to a trans woman’s experience.

It’s TERF 101. No one is asking women to “give up” anything.

Actually they are.

Case in point, just this year trans advocacy resulted in defunding Canada’s oldest rape crisis center.

This was the end result of a decades long campaign and attacks from trans advocates. In the 1990’s a trans woman who presented as male wanted to volunteer with rape victims. The center offered her other ways to help but insisted that all volunteers be female so that victims of male violence feel safe. The trans woman immediately sued and tied up time and resources of the crisis rape center for decades until it was defunded this year.

So, don’t tell me that trans women’s advocacy isn’t asking women to give up anything. They absolutely are.