Discussion Boundary Map out for APS- elementary schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have two cars ourselves but know many families at our school who don’t have a car or just have one car. These families walk, bike, and bus around town.

Not sure why that’s so hard for the nasty posters to believe. There are tons of families who live in the high-density areas along the R-B corridor. And more buildings going up every year. Get your head out of your ass and you will notice these things.

Please, give me a break! Here we go again. Sorry, this is not NYC. You are right that there are many families with children that live along R-B corridor but wrong that they don't have cars - however, this is irrelevant to APS planning. THey have no requirement to make some special accomodations for people who do not own cars. They have a plan in place for these people - they are called school busses! I get that your Larlo is too precious to ride one but that's the plan for your child, you just don't like it. Not APS's problem. You're preference for walking doesn't require APS to bend over backwards to develop some special plan to accommodate you.

How about spending less energy arguing over the benefits of each lifestyle and putting it into advocating for a new ES in the RB corridor rather than taking an established one away and displacing students at whatever school they move it to? These are existing schools, full of APS kids that still have to be educated somewhere and moved at taxpayers expense. I’m not sure how moving schools around fixes any of this apart from some people get to “walk” (which in truth means drive their cars) and some people don’t; it’s just changing the group that benefits based on who moved there most recently.

If you think another new ES can be built before choice programs have to move, I don’t know what to say. “You’re delusional”, perhaps.

Where in the world could they put an Elem? Wilson/HB site would have been good but that ship sailed. Dawson Terrace? Hillside Park (that’s a pretty useless park)

The county board needs to return some rec centers to APS, convenient locations or not.

Dawson Terrace could maybe work, Hillside Park is very small and, as the name implies, on a steep hill. The thing is, there's no logical reason to jump through hoops to keep immersion in that portion of the county other than the fact it's already there. Every single other factor other than inertia says it should move. If Key and ASFS are both neighborhood schools, is that enough seats to absorb all the kids who would no longer be choosing immersion for location?

Key Bridge Marriott site. Lee Hwy & N. Oak. Who owns that empty wooded area?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Car-less and family don’t really go hand in hand around here. We don’t have the infrastructure. This isn’t NYC

-1 Not true. We are a car-less family near Clarendon. Sure, we get a Zipcar now and then or Uber but you don't have to have a car here when you have kids.

How old are your kids?

Different poster, but we live in Clarendon without a car too. My kids are 12, 10, and 8.

So do your kids do any extracurriculars, camps, or lessons? Camp was what finally broke us into getting a second car.

Or do you just Uber/zip car a lot?

My kids do camp at the y, downtown, ice skating/hockey, or the camps through the county. We haven’t had an issue (yet), other than typical issues with having multiple kids who have different interests.
They play soccer and softball/baseball. They also swim year round. No issues so far getting them to anything, though the older one carpools to most of his stuff, but I think that’s typical of older kids from big families.

So how do your three kids get to the Y, the camps throughout the county, their swim. softball and baseball practices?

We walk. We live within a mile of most things they are signed up for, and we take the train/bus when we can’t walk. Lots of people get by without a car.

People who rely on carpools aren’t getting by without cars.

My older one has carpools because his activities often conflict with his siblings. Since he’s older, he is the one who I trust to get himself home and let himself in when he gets back. I don’t trust his eight year older sister enough to do that, so his sibling gets first dibs on parents coming with her to events. Lots of parents with more than two kids have this issue.
I don’t rely on other people to drive around my kids.

Your older one carpools? So he has his own car and drives his share of the time? Or you mean you just rely/cross-your-fingers that his friends' parents will take pity and drive him and you all never reciprocate? You can't carpool and not rely on other people to drive around your kids.

DP. You are simply trying to be a PIA and obtuse. There's a difference between people who are constantly living off and taking advantage of others, and the poster you're antagonizing. We're a 2-car family (because we don't live along a metro line or a transit corridor that provides efficient transportation to the places we need to go on a daily basis). Our kids still get rides with friends to and from things. So what? And we give rides now and then too. And even if we couldn't because we didn't have a car, we'd "reciprocate" our kids' friends and their parents in other ways.
It's time for you to lay off.

I don't think the poster was trying to be a PIA and obtuse but more pointing out hypocrisy (or maybe virtue signaling?) that some on this board love to spew about their car-free lifestyle. Sure, there are probably a ton of parents who have cars who take advantage of others because that is just their nature. But if you are truly living a car-free life, then you had to admit, you probably do need to depend more on others if you want your child to be able to participate in sports or go to sleepovers, or birthday parties, etc. And there is nothing wrong with that-- everyone carpools and gives kids rides all the time and hopefully the folks without cars do "reciprocate" in other ways. But in reality, if you are spending that much time walking or waiting on the Metro instead of driving, your spare time and ability to reciprocate will be more limited. It is the car-free posters' santimonious "don't hate just because we sucessfully live a car-free life even though such success inherently involves more dependence on others" that brings out posts like the one above.

But the real issue is when someone's "car-free" lifestyle becomes a justification or argument about why their child should be entitled to walk to school as the other posters are pointing out. You choose to live a car-free life, that's great but that does not get to dictate the location of neighborhood schools or access to Extended Day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have two cars ourselves but know many families at our school who don’t have a car or just have one car. These families walk, bike, and bus around town.

Not sure why that’s so hard for the nasty posters to believe. There are tons of families who live in the high-density areas along the R-B corridor. And more buildings going up every year. Get your head out of your ass and you will notice these things.

Please, give me a break! Here we go again. Sorry, this is not NYC. You are right that there are many families with children that live along R-B corridor but wrong that they don't have cars - however, this is irrelevant to APS planning. THey have no requirement to make some special accomodations for people who do not own cars. They have a plan in place for these people - they are called school busses! I get that your Larlo is too precious to ride one but that's the plan for your child, you just don't like it. Not APS's problem. You're preference for walking doesn't require APS to bend over backwards to develop some special plan to accommodate you.

How about spending less energy arguing over the benefits of each lifestyle and putting it into advocating for a new ES in the RB corridor rather than taking an established one away and displacing students at whatever school they move it to? These are existing schools, full of APS kids that still have to be educated somewhere and moved at taxpayers expense. I’m not sure how moving schools around fixes any of this apart from some people get to “walk” (which in truth means drive their cars) and some people don’t; it’s just changing the group that benefits based on who moved there most recently.

If you think another new ES can be built before choice programs have to move, I don’t know what to say. “You’re delusional”, perhaps.

Where in the world could they put an Elem? Wilson/HB site would have been good but that ship sailed. Dawson Terrace? Hillside Park (that’s a pretty useless park)

The county board needs to return some rec centers to APS, convenient locations or not.

Dawson Terrace could maybe work, Hillside Park is very small and, as the name implies, on a steep hill. The thing is, there's no logical reason to jump through hoops to keep immersion in that portion of the county other than the fact it's already there. Every single other factor other than inertia says it should move. If Key and ASFS are both neighborhood schools, is that enough seats to absorb all the kids who would no longer be choosing immersion for location?

Whether it is or not, it needs to happen. The writing is on the wall that: 1. The current immersion location at Key is not a good one for Spanish speakers, and 2. Neighborhood seats are needed there.

Moving forward, new elementary schools will be needed to accommodate increasing enrollment, and we’re at the end of the line with APS properties. Time for the county to help address the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Car-less and family don’t really go hand in hand around here. We don’t have the infrastructure. This isn’t NYC

-1 Not true. We are a car-less family near Clarendon. Sure, we get a Zipcar now and then or Uber but you don't have to have a car here when you have kids.

How old are your kids?

Different poster, but we live in Clarendon without a car too. My kids are 12, 10, and 8.

So do your kids do any extracurriculars, camps, or lessons? Camp was what finally broke us into getting a second car.

Or do you just Uber/zip car a lot?

My kids do camp at the y, downtown, ice skating/hockey, or the camps through the county. We haven’t had an issue (yet), other than typical issues with having multiple kids who have different interests.
They play soccer and softball/baseball. They also swim year round. No issues so far getting them to anything, though the older one carpools to most of his stuff, but I think that’s typical of older kids from big families.

So how do your three kids get to the Y, the camps throughout the county, their swim. softball and baseball practices?

We walk. We live within a mile of most things they are signed up for, and we take the train/bus when we can’t walk. Lots of people get by without a car.

People who rely on carpools aren’t getting by without cars.

My older one has carpools because his activities often conflict with his siblings. Since he’s older, he is the one who I trust to get himself home and let himself in when he gets back. I don’t trust his eight year older sister enough to do that, so his sibling gets first dibs on parents coming with her to events. Lots of parents with more than two kids have this issue.
I don’t rely on other people to drive around my kids.

Your older one carpools? So he has his own car and drives his share of the time? Or you mean you just rely/cross-your-fingers that his friends' parents will take pity and drive him and you all never reciprocate? You can't carpool and not rely on other people to drive around your kids.

DP. You are simply trying to be a PIA and obtuse. There's a difference between people who are constantly living off and taking advantage of others, and the poster you're antagonizing. We're a 2-car family (because we don't live along a metro line or a transit corridor that provides efficient transportation to the places we need to go on a daily basis). Our kids still get rides with friends to and from things. So what? And we give rides now and then too. And even if we couldn't because we didn't have a car, we'd "reciprocate" our kids' friends and their parents in other ways.
It's time for you to lay off.

I don't think the poster was trying to be a PIA and obtuse but more pointing out hypocrisy (or maybe virtue signaling?) that some on this board love to spew about their car-free lifestyle. Sure, there are probably a ton of parents who have cars who take advantage of others because that is just their nature. But if you are truly living a car-free life, then you had to admit, you probably do need to depend more on others if you want your child to be able to participate in sports or go to sleepovers, or birthday parties, etc. And there is nothing wrong with that-- everyone carpools and gives kids rides all the time and hopefully the folks without cars do "reciprocate" in other ways. But in reality, if you are spending that much time walking or waiting on the Metro instead of driving, your spare time and ability to reciprocate will be more limited. It is the car-free posters' santimonious "don't hate just because we sucessfully live a car-free life even though such success inherently involves more dependence on others" that brings out posts like the one above.

But the real issue is when someone's "car-free" lifestyle becomes a justification or argument about why their child should be entitled to walk to school as the other posters are pointing out. You choose to live a car-free life, that's great but that does not get to dictate the location of neighborhood schools or access to Extended Day.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

If Key and ASFS are both neighborhood schools, is that enough seats to absorb all the kids who would no longer be choosing immersion for location?

Barely-- Rosslyn and Courthouse could easily fill Key. Lyon Village and the neighborhood around ASFS, once you add in the Ashlawn tail and the American Legion housing being built, will overcrowd ASFS in no time.

But still a lot better than having one of those schools be an option school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

If Key and ASFS are both neighborhood schools, is that enough seats to absorb all the kids who would no longer be choosing immersion for location?

Barely-- Rosslyn and Courthouse could easily fill Key. Lyon Village and the neighborhood around ASFS, once you add in the Ashlawn tail and the American Legion housing being built, will overcrowd ASFS in no time.

But still a lot better than having one of those schools be an option school.

What will be interesting is when Key becomes a neighborhood school and all those "car-free" families can no longer stick their kids on the bus and have that extra 20-40 minutes each morning and each afternoon that little Larlo and Larla are on the bus. It works out great that you can drop Larlo off at the bus stop at 8:10 and then walk to the Metro to get to work by 9 but what happens when you now have to wait until almost 9 and walk your kid to the school? And have to be at the school for pick up at 3:41 rather than looking out your window at 4:10 to see if the bus there yet? I'm sure they will be back on this board complaining that they liked it better when their kids could take the bus-lol!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

If Key and ASFS are both neighborhood schools, is that enough seats to absorb all the kids who would no longer be choosing immersion for location?

Barely-- Rosslyn and Courthouse could easily fill Key. Lyon Village and the neighborhood around ASFS, once you add in the Ashlawn tail and the American Legion housing being built, will overcrowd ASFS in no time.

But still a lot better than having one of those schools be an option school.

Exactly.

Are we even debating Key anymore? I thought it was commonly accepted now that it should be a neighborhood school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If Key and ASFS are both neighborhood schools, is that enough seats to absorb all the kids who would no longer be choosing immersion for location?

Barely-- Rosslyn and Courthouse could easily fill Key. Lyon Village and the neighborhood around ASFS, once you add in the Ashlawn tail and the American Legion housing being built, will overcrowd ASFS in no time.

But still a lot better than having one of those schools be an option school.

What will be interesting is when Key becomes a neighborhood school and all those "car-free" families can no longer stick their kids on the bus and have that extra 20-40 minutes each morning and each afternoon that little Larlo and Larla are on the bus. It works out great that you can drop Larlo off at the bus stop at 8:10 and then walk to the Metro to get to work by 9 but what happens when you now have to wait until almost 9 and walk your kid to the school? And have to be at the school for pick up at 3:41 rather than looking out your window at 4:10 to see if the bus there yet? I'm sure they will be back on this board complaining that they liked it better when their kids could take the bus-lol!

Are you familiar with before and aftercare? One could walk their kid to or from either to make it work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If Key and ASFS are both neighborhood schools, is that enough seats to absorb all the kids who would no longer be choosing immersion for location?

Barely-- Rosslyn and Courthouse could easily fill Key. Lyon Village and the neighborhood around ASFS, once you add in the Ashlawn tail and the American Legion housing being built, will overcrowd ASFS in no time.

But still a lot better than having one of those schools be an option school.

What will be interesting is when Key becomes a neighborhood school and all those "car-free" families can no longer stick their kids on the bus and have that extra 20-40 minutes each morning and each afternoon that little Larlo and Larla are on the bus. It works out great that you can drop Larlo off at the bus stop at 8:10 and then walk to the Metro to get to work by 9 but what happens when you now have to wait until almost 9 and walk your kid to the school? And have to be at the school for pick up at 3:41 rather than looking out your window at 4:10 to see if the bus there yet? I'm sure they will be back on this board complaining that they liked it better when their kids could take the bus-lol!

Just can't stop being nasty, huh? Watch out - it will come back to bite you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If Key and ASFS are both neighborhood schools, is that enough seats to absorb all the kids who would no longer be choosing immersion for location?

Barely-- Rosslyn and Courthouse could easily fill Key. Lyon Village and the neighborhood around ASFS, once you add in the Ashlawn tail and the American Legion housing being built, will overcrowd ASFS in no time.

But still a lot better than having one of those schools be an option school.

Exactly.

Are we even debating Key anymore? I thought it was commonly accepted now that it should be a neighborhood school.

See 9:54. Some people are having trouble letting go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have two cars ourselves but know many families at our school who don’t have a car or just have one car. These families walk, bike, and bus around town.

Not sure why that’s so hard for the nasty posters to believe. There are tons of families who live in the high-density areas along the R-B corridor. And more buildings going up every year. Get your head out of your ass and you will notice these things.

Please, give me a break! Here we go again. Sorry, this is not NYC. You are right that there are many families with children that live along R-B corridor but wrong that they don't have cars - however, this is irrelevant to APS planning. THey have no requirement to make some special accomodations for people who do not own cars. They have a plan in place for these people - they are called school busses! I get that your Larlo is too precious to ride one but that's the plan for your child, you just don't like it. Not APS's problem. You're preference for walking doesn't require APS to bend over backwards to develop some special plan to accommodate you.

How about spending less energy arguing over the benefits of each lifestyle and putting it into advocating for a new ES in the RB corridor rather than taking an established one away and displacing students at whatever school they move it to? These are existing schools, full of APS kids that still have to be educated somewhere and moved at taxpayers expense. I’m not sure how moving schools around fixes any of this apart from some people get to “walk” (which in truth means drive their cars) and some people don’t; it’s just changing the group that benefits based on who moved there most recently.

If you think another new ES can be built before choice programs have to move, I don’t know what to say. “You’re delusional”, perhaps.

Where in the world could they put an Elem? Wilson/HB site would have been good but that ship sailed. Dawson Terrace? Hillside Park (that’s a pretty useless park)

The county board needs to return some rec centers to APS, convenient locations or not.

Dawson Terrace could maybe work, Hillside Park is very small and, as the name implies, on a steep hill. The thing is, there's no logical reason to jump through hoops to keep immersion in that portion of the county other than the fact it's already there. Every single other factor other than inertia says it should move. If Key and ASFS are both neighborhood schools, is that enough seats to absorb all the kids who would no longer be choosing immersion for location?

Key Bridge Marriott site. Lee Hwy & N. Oak. Who owns that empty wooded area?

The US government, it's Park Service land.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If Key and ASFS are both neighborhood schools, is that enough seats to absorb all the kids who would no longer be choosing immersion for location?

Barely-- Rosslyn and Courthouse could easily fill Key. Lyon Village and the neighborhood around ASFS, once you add in the Ashlawn tail and the American Legion housing being built, will overcrowd ASFS in no time.

But still a lot better than having one of those schools be an option school.

What will be interesting is when Key becomes a neighborhood school and all those "car-free" families can no longer stick their kids on the bus and have that extra 20-40 minutes each morning and each afternoon that little Larlo and Larla are on the bus. It works out great that you can drop Larlo off at the bus stop at 8:10 and then walk to the Metro to get to work by 9 but what happens when you now have to wait until almost 9 and walk your kid to the school? And have to be at the school for pick up at 3:41 rather than looking out your window at 4:10 to see if the bus there yet? I'm sure they will be back on this board complaining that they liked it better when their kids could take the bus-lol!

My kids is at asfs, our bus picks up at 8:35, and drops off at 3:50. School doors open at asfs at 8:40, so I'm not sure it would be any different if we were walking versus taking the bus. My kids are at extended day, but I don't think those ten minutes would make a difference one way or the other in the afternoon.
Not sure about the timing of other buses, but since the r-b corridor is so dense, most buses have only 1 or at most 2 stops, so I think most buses to asfs/key from the areas around asfs/key have similar schedules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have two cars ourselves but know many families at our school who don’t have a car or just have one car. These families walk, bike, and bus around town.

Not sure why that’s so hard for the nasty posters to believe. There are tons of families who live in the high-density areas along the R-B corridor. And more buildings going up every year. Get your head out of your ass and you will notice these things.

Please, give me a break! Here we go again. Sorry, this is not NYC. You are right that there are many families with children that live along R-B corridor but wrong that they don't have cars - however, this is irrelevant to APS planning. THey have no requirement to make some special accomodations for people who do not own cars. They have a plan in place for these people - they are called school busses! I get that your Larlo is too precious to ride one but that's the plan for your child, you just don't like it. Not APS's problem. You're preference for walking doesn't require APS to bend over backwards to develop some special plan to accommodate you.

How about spending less energy arguing over the benefits of each lifestyle and putting it into advocating for a new ES in the RB corridor rather than taking an established one away and displacing students at whatever school they move it to? These are existing schools, full of APS kids that still have to be educated somewhere and moved at taxpayers expense. I’m not sure how moving schools around fixes any of this apart from some people get to “walk” (which in truth means drive their cars) and some people don’t; it’s just changing the group that benefits based on who moved there most recently.

If you think another new ES can be built before choice programs have to move, I don’t know what to say. “You’re delusional”, perhaps.

Where in the world could they put an Elem? Wilson/HB site would have been good but that ship sailed. Dawson Terrace? Hillside Park (that’s a pretty useless park)

The county board needs to return some rec centers to APS, convenient locations or not.

Dawson Terrace could maybe work, Hillside Park is very small and, as the name implies, on a steep hill. The thing is, there's no logical reason to jump through hoops to keep immersion in that portion of the county other than the fact it's already there. Every single other factor other than inertia says it should move. If Key and ASFS are both neighborhood schools, is that enough seats to absorb all the kids who would no longer be choosing immersion for location?

Key Bridge Marriott site. Lee Hwy & N. Oak. Who owns that empty wooded area?

The US government, it's Park Service land.

Bummer. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If Key and ASFS are both neighborhood schools, is that enough seats to absorb all the kids who would no longer be choosing immersion for location?

Barely-- Rosslyn and Courthouse could easily fill Key. Lyon Village and the neighborhood around ASFS, once you add in the Ashlawn tail and the American Legion housing being built, will overcrowd ASFS in no time.

But still a lot better than having one of those schools be an option school.

What will be interesting is when Key becomes a neighborhood school and all those "car-free" families can no longer stick their kids on the bus and have that extra 20-40 minutes each morning and each afternoon that little Larlo and Larla are on the bus. It works out great that you can drop Larlo off at the bus stop at 8:10 and then walk to the Metro to get to work by 9 but what happens when you now have to wait until almost 9 and walk your kid to the school? And have to be at the school for pick up at 3:41 rather than looking out your window at 4:10 to see if the bus there yet? I'm sure they will be back on this board complaining that they liked it better when their kids could take the bus-lol!

Are you familiar with before and aftercare? One could walk their kid to or from either to make it work.

Sure, but that's not what the car-free families are used to-- and more importantly, what they feel they are entitled to. Truth is, a lot of folks could easily walk their kids to ASFS but choose not to because it's much more convenient to use the bus. Of course you will take the bus when offered but it's going to be an adjustment for a lot of folks when they have to actually start walking their younger kids to school versus leaving them at a bus stop with a bunch of other kids and adults.

And before and aftercare cost money and spots are limited. Again, that will be fine for some but not for everyone. Just you wait-- based on the responses on this board, everyone along the R-B corridor, including Lyon Village, should be thrilled when Key becomes a neighborhood school and they can all walk/have shorter commutes but I betcha there will be a HUGE resistance, especially from the Lyon Village folks about going to the Key building.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have two cars ourselves but know many families at our school who don’t have a car or just have one car. These families walk, bike, and bus around town.

Not sure why that’s so hard for the nasty posters to believe. There are tons of families who live in the high-density areas along the R-B corridor. And more buildings going up every year. Get your head out of your ass and you will notice these things.

Please, give me a break! Here we go again. Sorry, this is not NYC. You are right that there are many families with children that live along R-B corridor but wrong that they don't have cars - however, this is irrelevant to APS planning. THey have no requirement to make some special accomodations for people who do not own cars. They have a plan in place for these people - they are called school busses! I get that your Larlo is too precious to ride one but that's the plan for your child, you just don't like it. Not APS's problem. You're preference for walking doesn't require APS to bend over backwards to develop some special plan to accommodate you.

Nobody is asking for special accomodation. I think the post that started this tangent asked for :
-- reliable buses (is anyone actually against this?)
-- the ability to sign up for extended day at a closer school

I can see the argument against extended day, but is anyone really arguing against reliable buses? Or are we just arguing for the sake of arguing?
Lots of people don't have cars, lots of people do. Just because you cannot imagine living without a car doesn't mean other people don't live that way. There's a lot of beating up on a few posters who say they have kids and don't own a car. I'm not really sure what's motivating that, its not really productive, and isn't really relevant to this thread.
I don't think we want to intentionally zone people who currently walk to a school where they have to drive, especially in areas that have reduced parking and the county is encouraging people to use public transportation. That seems reasonable. You can argue that we don't have the infrastructure to support people being carless, or that its not something we should consider, but it doesn't help Arlington as a whole to argue that everyone with kids owns a car and must drive their kid to and from school.

I just love the sanctimonious folks in Market Commons who cannot be inconvenienced because they reportedly walk everywhere. What about the car-free families who live in the same planning unit as ASFS that were attacked for even applying to go to ASFS?