Fleeing APS schools for FFX County

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As far as I've been able to tell, the only metric where APS high schools outperform FCPS high schools is the average number of AP/IB courses taken by graduating seniors. But when you look instead at the percentage of graduates who actually pass the AP or IB exams, the APS schools fall behind the top schools in FCPS (just like they do with average SAT scores, SOL scores, # of National Merit Semifinalists, etc). Maybe that will change by the time the kids redistricted from W-L to YHS graduate.

And there are plenty of FCPS schools that fall behind APS schools. What’s your point?

There is no point, other than some insecure FCPS parents are desperate to establish their own superiority. It's not enough for everyone's schools to be good, they must be the best.

They can enjoy their extra hours commuting. I'll spend mine teaching my kids anything APS missed.

[Anonymous]

So OP, are you going to flee APS for FCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Never thought I'd see this many responses, but my takeaway is: FFX uses larger class sizes and the AAP program to manage the potential overcrowding at schools. From everything I've heard in APS over the 4-5 years we've been part of it, there is no way they'd consider tracking and AAP. Seems like a non-starter, for whatever reason. But maybe we're getting to the point where we should consider expanding class sizes. I haven't heard many negative comments about it from FFX parents, seems like it hasn't been all that detrimental to the classroom.

And no surprise we're never going to have as many options as FFX does in terms of finding land to build new schools. They have so much more flexibility in that regard. I wonder if APS needs to at least consider making the 4th HS a combined 6-12 grade school. Perhaps that could open up more options and relieve some of the busing costs? Maybe have the 6-8 grades start at a different time, to stagger the buses? Just throwing out ideas at this point.

APS doesn't do "tracking" but residential housing segregation is essentially the same thing. I bet it would be eyepopping to find out what percentage of students in each elementary school had a preschool education. At a school like Jamestown it's probably well over 90%. At Barcroft or Randolph I'd be very surprised if it cracked 50%. Kids who go to preschool start out ahead (north Arlington) or wait for the others to catch up (south Arlington).

You’re speculating.

Well duh, that's what speculative language like "wouldn't be surprised" implies. Here's another speculation: APS almost certainly has some measure of school readiness for the student body at each elementary school.

Yes, but your speculations are not helpful at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As far as I've been able to tell, the only metric where APS high schools outperform FCPS high schools is the average number of AP/IB courses taken by graduating seniors. But when you look instead at the percentage of graduates who actually pass the AP or IB exams, the APS schools fall behind the top schools in FCPS (just like they do with average SAT scores, SOL scores, # of National Merit Semifinalists, etc). Maybe that will change by the time the kids redistricted from W-L to YHS graduate.

There's that FCPS "only AAP matters" mindset again.

AAP in FCPS ends in middle school. Judging from this thread, the "mindset" in APS is to allow economic segregation, and then shrug when the low-income and minority kids do poorly.

This. And to claim all schools in APS are excellent, evidence to the contrary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As far as I've been able to tell, the only metric where APS high schools outperform FCPS high schools is the average number of AP/IB courses taken by graduating seniors. But when you look instead at the percentage of graduates who actually pass the AP or IB exams, the APS schools fall behind the top schools in FCPS (just like they do with average SAT scores, SOL scores, # of National Merit Semifinalists, etc). Maybe that will change by the time the kids redistricted from W-L to YHS graduate.

There's that FCPS "only AAP matters" mindset again.

AAP in FCPS ends in middle school. Judging from this thread, the "mindset" in APS is to allow economic segregation, and then shrug when the low-income and minority kids do poorly.

This. And to claim all schools in APS are excellent, evidence to the contrary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Never thought I'd see this many responses, but my takeaway is: FFX uses larger class sizes and the AAP program to manage the potential overcrowding at schools. From everything I've heard in APS over the 4-5 years we've been part of it, there is no way they'd consider tracking and AAP. Seems like a non-starter, for whatever reason. But maybe we're getting to the point where we should consider expanding class sizes. I haven't heard many negative comments about it from FFX parents, seems like it hasn't been all that detrimental to the classroom.

And no surprise we're never going to have as many options as FFX does in terms of finding land to build new schools. They have so much more flexibility in that regard. I wonder if APS needs to at least consider making the 4th HS a combined 6-12 grade school. Perhaps that could open up more options and relieve some of the busing costs? Maybe have the 6-8 grades start at a different time, to stagger the buses? Just throwing out ideas at this point.

APS doesn't do "tracking" but residential housing segregation is essentially the same thing. I bet it would be eyepopping to find out what percentage of students in each elementary school had a preschool education. At a school like Jamestown it's probably well over 90%. At Barcroft or Randolph I'd be very surprised if it cracked 50%. Kids who go to preschool start out ahead (north Arlington) or wait for the others to catch up (south Arlington).

You’re speculating.

Well duh, that's what speculative language like "wouldn't be surprised" implies. Here's another speculation: APS almost certainly has some measure of school readiness for the student body at each elementary school.

Yes, but your speculations are not helpful at all.

DP, but I think it's relevant. Other than VPI, what access would a low-income family have to quality preschool in Arlington? While access to quality preschool may not have measurable long-term effects, especially when those students go on to attend highly segregated ES-HS, certainly in the early years a lack of preschool preparation could affect test scores. Whether this will affect their HS scores, who knows. But I could see how 3rd grade SOL reading/writing scores might be lower at some schools, especially if first exposure to the English language is happening at school. SOLs don't measure intellect, just preparation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As far as I've been able to tell, the only metric where APS high schools outperform FCPS high schools is the average number of AP/IB courses taken by graduating seniors. But when you look instead at the percentage of graduates who actually pass the AP or IB exams, the APS schools fall behind the top schools in FCPS (just like they do with average SAT scores, SOL scores, # of National Merit Semifinalists, etc). Maybe that will change by the time the kids redistricted from W-L to YHS graduate.

There's that FCPS "only AAP matters" mindset again.

AAP in FCPS ends in middle school. Judging from this thread, the "mindset" in APS is to allow economic segregation, and then shrug when the low-income and minority kids do poorly.

This. And to claim all schools in APS are excellent, evidence to the contrary.

The schools are excellent. Some of the kids are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As far as I've been able to tell, the only metric where APS high schools outperform FCPS high schools is the average number of AP/IB courses taken by graduating seniors. But when you look instead at the percentage of graduates who actually pass the AP or IB exams, the APS schools fall behind the top schools in FCPS (just like they do with average SAT scores, SOL scores, # of National Merit Semifinalists, etc). Maybe that will change by the time the kids redistricted from W-L to YHS graduate.

There's that FCPS "only AAP matters" mindset again.

AAP in FCPS ends in middle school. Judging from this thread, the "mindset" in APS is to allow economic segregation, and then shrug when the low-income and minority kids do poorly.

This. And to claim all schools in APS are excellent, evidence to the contrary.

The schools are excellent. Some of the kids are not.

Oh yay, we're back to trolling to make APS parents look like assholes. And the FCPS parents will lap it up because that's what they want to believe. It's a win-win!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Never thought I'd see this many responses, but my takeaway is: FFX uses larger class sizes and the AAP program to manage the potential overcrowding at schools. From everything I've heard in APS over the 4-5 years we've been part of it, there is no way they'd consider tracking and AAP. Seems like a non-starter, for whatever reason. But maybe we're getting to the point where we should consider expanding class sizes. I haven't heard many negative comments about it from FFX parents, seems like it hasn't been all that detrimental to the classroom.

And no surprise we're never going to have as many options as FFX does in terms of finding land to build new schools. They have so much more flexibility in that regard. I wonder if APS needs to at least consider making the 4th HS a combined 6-12 grade school. Perhaps that could open up more options and relieve some of the busing costs? Maybe have the 6-8 grades start at a different time, to stagger the buses? Just throwing out ideas at this point.

APS doesn't do "tracking" but residential housing segregation is essentially the same thing. I bet it would be eyepopping to find out what percentage of students in each elementary school had a preschool education. At a school like Jamestown it's probably well over 90%. At Barcroft or Randolph I'd be very surprised if it cracked 50%. Kids who go to preschool start out ahead (north Arlington) or wait for the others to catch up (south Arlington).

You’re speculating.

Well duh, that's what speculative language like "wouldn't be surprised" implies. Here's another speculation: APS almost certainly has some measure of school readiness for the student body at each elementary school.

Yes, but your speculations are not helpful at all.

DP, but I think it's relevant. Other than VPI, what access would a low-income family have to quality preschool in Arlington? While access to quality preschool may not have measurable long-term effects, especially when those students go on to attend highly segregated ES-HS, certainly in the early years a lack of preschool preparation could affect test scores. Whether this will affect their HS scores, who knows. But I could see how 3rd grade SOL reading/writing scores might be lower at some schools, especially if first exposure to the English language is happening at school. SOLs don't measure intellect, just preparation.

We're in Fairfax, but I assumed that Arlington was the same. Churches host inexpensive, excellent preschools in Fairfax. Some are affiliated with the church and some aren't. I imagine they'd be willing to be flexible on tuition and/or financial aid, especially the ones affiliated with a church. Does Arlington not have any low-cost preschools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Never thought I'd see this many responses, but my takeaway is: FFX uses larger class sizes and the AAP program to manage the potential overcrowding at schools. From everything I've heard in APS over the 4-5 years we've been part of it, there is no way they'd consider tracking and AAP. Seems like a non-starter, for whatever reason. But maybe we're getting to the point where we should consider expanding class sizes. I haven't heard many negative comments about it from FFX parents, seems like it hasn't been all that detrimental to the classroom.

And no surprise we're never going to have as many options as FFX does in terms of finding land to build new schools. They have so much more flexibility in that regard. I wonder if APS needs to at least consider making the 4th HS a combined 6-12 grade school. Perhaps that could open up more options and relieve some of the busing costs? Maybe have the 6-8 grades start at a different time, to stagger the buses? Just throwing out ideas at this point.

APS doesn't do "tracking" but residential housing segregation is essentially the same thing. I bet it would be eyepopping to find out what percentage of students in each elementary school had a preschool education. At a school like Jamestown it's probably well over 90%. At Barcroft or Randolph I'd be very surprised if it cracked 50%. Kids who go to preschool start out ahead (north Arlington) or wait for the others to catch up (south Arlington).

You’re speculating.

Well duh, that's what speculative language like "wouldn't be surprised" implies. Here's another speculation: APS almost certainly has some measure of school readiness for the student body at each elementary school.

Yes, but your speculations are not helpful at all.

DP, but I think it's relevant. Other than VPI, what access would a low-income family have to quality preschool in Arlington? While access to quality preschool may not have measurable long-term effects, especially when those students go on to attend highly segregated ES-HS, certainly in the early years a lack of preschool preparation could affect test scores. Whether this will affect their HS scores, who knows. But I could see how 3rd grade SOL reading/writing scores might be lower at some schools, especially if first exposure to the English language is happening at school. SOLs don't measure intellect, just preparation.

We're in Fairfax, but I assumed that Arlington was the same. Churches host inexpensive, excellent preschools in Fairfax. Some are affiliated with the church and some aren't. I imagine they'd be willing to be flexible on tuition and/or financial aid, especially the ones affiliated with a church. Does Arlington not have any low-cost preschools?

DP. Arlington does, but you're showing your privilege in spades here. If you're a family barely making ends meet and you have free childcare available at home (say, a grandparent who lives with you or a parent who doesn't work because full-time childcare would cost more than their potential earnings), you're not going to pay for even low-cost preschool for your child because the money simply isn't there. That's true in FCPS as much as it is in APS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Never thought I'd see this many responses, but my takeaway is: FFX uses larger class sizes and the AAP program to manage the potential overcrowding at schools. From everything I've heard in APS over the 4-5 years we've been part of it, there is no way they'd consider tracking and AAP. Seems like a non-starter, for whatever reason. But maybe we're getting to the point where we should consider expanding class sizes. I haven't heard many negative comments about it from FFX parents, seems like it hasn't been all that detrimental to the classroom.

And no surprise we're never going to have as many options as FFX does in terms of finding land to build new schools. They have so much more flexibility in that regard. I wonder if APS needs to at least consider making the 4th HS a combined 6-12 grade school. Perhaps that could open up more options and relieve some of the busing costs? Maybe have the 6-8 grades start at a different time, to stagger the buses? Just throwing out ideas at this point.

APS doesn't do "tracking" but residential housing segregation is essentially the same thing. I bet it would be eyepopping to find out what percentage of students in each elementary school had a preschool education. At a school like Jamestown it's probably well over 90%. At Barcroft or Randolph I'd be very surprised if it cracked 50%. Kids who go to preschool start out ahead (north Arlington) or wait for the others to catch up (south Arlington).

You’re speculating.

Well duh, that's what speculative language like "wouldn't be surprised" implies. Here's another speculation: APS almost certainly has some measure of school readiness for the student body at each elementary school.

Yes, but your speculations are not helpful at all.

Of course they are. Getting people curious about facts that can be used to direct resources effectively is very helpful. Using measures such as readiness makes it possible to accurately describe the nature of educational achievement gaps. They are not because poor kids are falling behind. They're doing better than ever. The gaps are there because well off kids, through preschool an extra curricular enrichment, are pulling up and away. It's not simply that kids at say, Jamestown are richer than those at Randolph. It's that as a result, they are availing themselves of a variety of activities that complement and strengthen classroom learning. Why wouldn't you want to quantify those things?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem is ultimately that GS score is a very blunt tool for assessing a school that in no way tells you how children like yours fare at a given school. That was the case beefore they changed their methodology, and it continues to be the case now. Anyone who takes GS (or any other rating site like Niche or US News) as the beginning and end of a school quality assessment is a fool.

I think it would be better to say, take GS ratings with a grain of salt. However, two schools with similar demographics, one is 10/10, the other 4/10 - it does mean something about what that school can achieve, even if it doesn't necessarily influence your individual child's experience at either school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:West Springfield is more diverse than Yorktown and has a GS score of 8.

GS is measuring performance gap, not performance.

+1. People still aren't getting it. You have to think of it like an inverse bell curve. At the extremes, either highly diverse (which tends to result in all students being clustered roughly together on the advantage scale) and almost completely homogenous (where there are too few disadvantaged students to be counted), GS scores will be higher because of the equity measurement. For those schools in between that are diverse enough for the impact to be measurable but where there's a significant advantage gap within the student body, equity scores will dip and will drag down the overall score. For school systems that care about GS scores, this provides an incentive to create zone schools to concentrate the affluent in some schools with no more than a handful of disadvantaged students to be measured and drag down the rating, and then cluster all of the less-affluent students together so that their lower test scores will be closer together. Gives the appearance of equity when really it's highly segregated.

It is a ridiculous incentivization structure where no good deed goes unpunished.

This does not explain the scores. First of all, FARMS at 12-14% is not "too few to be counted" and secondly, majority FARMS schools do not score high (your other end of the extreme) on GS.

[Anonymous]

What about the Burke area? Any good school pyramids close to the VRE?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What about the Burke area? Any good school pyramids close to the VRE?

West Springfield, Lake Braddock, Robinson are all very good.