Do you consider race when looking for a neighborhood to live in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So where the other black people at that event, including the AA politician, treated the same way? Or were there no other AA people in attendance except for Melody?

My point is, how can you assert that her race is what caused her to be mistaken as the wait staff?

Exhibit 1 of a person who would see the Klan lighting a cross on a Black family's lawn and suggest "Maybe they were just having a bonfire to welcome the new folks to the neighborhood."

LOLOLLOLOLOLOL!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe this will help some people out with the reality that people actually live in
I used to wait tables I always treated people the same. Then I started noticing things.
Like the orange people always took forever to eat their food and the purple people never tipped
So I started trying to avoid serving orange and purple people
Does this make me racist against orange and purple people? If you were a purple or orange person wouldn't you do the same thing
Why would you choose to live in a neighborhood with orange and purple people if you had the choice?

Well, if your behind is dumb enough to believe that the few hundreds of purple and orange people that you served, were represented of all of the MILLIONS of other orange and purple people on the planet, who don't even freaking know each other or do the exact same things, then hey, have at it. I'm sure none of the millions of purple and orange people do not want an idiot living among them anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So where the other black people at that event, including the AA politician, treated the same way? Or were there no other AA people in attendance except for Melody?

My point is, how can you assert that her race is what caused her to be mistaken as the wait staff?

Exhibit 1 of a person who would see the Klan lighting a cross on a Black family's lawn and suggest "Maybe they were just having a bonfire to welcome the new folks to the neighborhood."

LOLOLLOLOLOLOL!

Even more====lololololo lololol!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We have an AA couple + kids on our block in CC. I'm a white person, so I don't get it 100%, but I think I understand the concerns (fear of random stops by the locals cops, being a suburban pioneer, how will the other kids treat my kids, etc.), and I have no doubt that they are rational. But in honesty I don't think you would be treated significantly differently than other neighbors. (Its not like we're all hosting daily evening neighborhood BBQs and hosting swingers evenings.)

I'm the one who first posted doubts about CC. It's a whole host of things, not just how neighbors treat you. I'm not trying to be facetious or snarky, but you're right that you don't get it 100% - I"m not sure it's possible for you to know or think about all the ways discriminatory behavior can happen. One PP mentioned fear of her husband getting harassed for jogging through his own neighborhood. My husband and I went to a party at a friend's house and the caterer, thinking I was part of her staff, jumped on me for using the guest bathroom. It's these seemingly insignificant "oops" moments, some innocuous and some pretty harmful, that can add up. My main concern is unconscious bias from teachers and school administrators. Small things with big impact that are hard to talk about, harder to prove, but factor into decisions about where to live. Especially if I'm paying ballpark $1 million for a house.

OMG how did u handle that? that reminded me of that crazy story Melody Hobson Princeton Grad and Billionaire George Lucas wife told about hosting a fundraiser for a black politician and showing up only to be taken to the back room by a "manager" and questioned why she wasn't in the proper attire for the event. Women thought Melody was there as part of the wait staff

She is not just his wife
She is President of a Capital Management company, author, and TV personality

Never heard of her, so had to look her up--she's amazing! Apparently she inspired Sheryl Sandberg to write Lean In. Thanks, DCUM!

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/03/mellody-hobson-ariel-investments-fighting-stereotype

So where the other black people at that event, including the AA politician, treated the same way? Or were there no other AA people in attendance except for Melody?

My point is, how can you assert that her race is what caused her to be mistaken as the wait staff?

How can you assert that it was not. It is amazing to me that plenty of folks can come on here and write about their experiences, or IRL tell someone about their experience and for the most part it is taken for face value that the person writing/speaking has an accurate assessment of the situation that they were, you know, actually in! However, when a POC tries to say they were in situation that was racist/offensive/insensitive, their perspective is picked apart 500 ways to Sunday.
It.Is.Tiresome

I see that logical reasoning is not one of your strengths. Rational people typically examine the evidence and come to a rational conclusion. For a rational person to conclude that race was the cause of something, they would either have direct evidence, or exclusionary evidence. In this case, if other AA people were not treated as the wait staff, then it would pretty clearly eliminate her race as a cause.

I know that thinking in a logical and rational manner takes some effort, it may even be tiresome, but you really should try it some time.

Oh, you are right because of course the person must have time to to discriminate against every dang POC in the room in order to prove discrimination.
And a sexist must do something sexist against every woman he meets, etc.
I truly detest deliberate stupidity

Strawman. That's not my position at all. I'll make it simple: the one making the claim has the burden of proof. So it's not up to me to assert that she was not mistaken as the wait staff due to her race, it's up to you to prove that she was. Stating two facts does not mean they have a causal relationship, no matter how much you want them to be.

Why does that poster have to prove anything to you? Do you conduct such a thorough examindation of each statement in every single thread you read? If not, I guess we can make a few assumptions about you as well.

Wow, never thought I'd offend so many by trying to bring a little sanity into this little racial kumbaya of a thread. So if we all went around making baseless assertions without the need to back them up, and we derided those who offered a different opinion or questioned the logic behind the assertion, you really think that's a good recipe for effective communications?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So where the other black people at that event, including the AA politician, treated the same way? Or were there no other AA people in attendance except for Melody?

My point is, how can you assert that her race is what caused her to be mistaken as the wait staff?

Exhibit 1 of a person who would see the Klan lighting a cross on a Black family's lawn and suggest "Maybe they were just having a bonfire to welcome the new folks to the neighborhood."

LOLOLLOLOLOLOL!

Even more====lololololo lololol!

That's just disgraceful, equating the suffering of hate crimes committed by the KKK to someone being mistaken for the wait staff. How do you live with yourselves.

[Anonymous]

It was sobering to me, and more than a little shameful, how much I found myself assessing neighborhoods based on race when we were house hunting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We have an AA couple + kids on our block in CC. I'm a white person, so I don't get it 100%, but I think I understand the concerns (fear of random stops by the locals cops, being a suburban pioneer, how will the other kids treat my kids, etc.), and I have no doubt that they are rational. But in honesty I don't think you would be treated significantly differently than other neighbors. (Its not like we're all hosting daily evening neighborhood BBQs and hosting swingers evenings.)

I'm the one who first posted doubts about CC. It's a whole host of things, not just how neighbors treat you. I'm not trying to be facetious or snarky, but you're right that you don't get it 100% - I"m not sure it's possible for you to know or think about all the ways discriminatory behavior can happen. One PP mentioned fear of her husband getting harassed for jogging through his own neighborhood. My husband and I went to a party at a friend's house and the caterer, thinking I was part of her staff, jumped on me for using the guest bathroom. It's these seemingly insignificant "oops" moments, some innocuous and some pretty harmful, that can add up. My main concern is unconscious bias from teachers and school administrators. Small things with big impact that are hard to talk about, harder to prove, but factor into decisions about where to live. Especially if I'm paying ballpark $1 million for a house.

OMG how did u handle that? that reminded me of that crazy story Melody Hobson Princeton Grad and Billionaire George Lucas wife told about hosting a fundraiser for a black politician and showing up only to be taken to the back room by a "manager" and questioned why she wasn't in the proper attire for the event. Women thought Melody was there as part of the wait staff

She is not just his wife
She is President of a Capital Management company, author, and TV personality

Never heard of her, so had to look her up--she's amazing! Apparently she inspired Sheryl Sandberg to write Lean In. Thanks, DCUM!

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/03/mellody-hobson-ariel-investments-fighting-stereotype

So where the other black people at that event, including the AA politician, treated the same way? Or were there no other AA people in attendance except for Melody?

My point is, how can you assert that her race is what caused her to be mistaken as the wait staff?

How can you assert that it was not. It is amazing to me that plenty of folks can come on here and write about their experiences, or IRL tell someone about their experience and for the most part it is taken for face value that the person writing/speaking has an accurate assessment of the situation that they were, you know, actually in! However, when a POC tries to say they were in situation that was racist/offensive/insensitive, their perspective is picked apart 500 ways to Sunday.
It.Is.Tiresome

I see that logical reasoning is not one of your strengths. Rational people typically examine the evidence and come to a rational conclusion. For a rational person to conclude that race was the cause of something, they would either have direct evidence, or exclusionary evidence. In this case, if other AA people were not treated as the wait staff, then it would pretty clearly eliminate her race as a cause.

I know that thinking in a logical and rational manner takes some effort, it may even be tiresome, but you really should try it some time.

Oh, you are right because of course the person must have time to to discriminate against every dang POC in the room in order to prove discrimination.
And a sexist must do something sexist against every woman he meets, etc.
I truly detest deliberate stupidity

Strawman. That's not my position at all. I'll make it simple: the one making the claim has the burden of proof. So it's not up to me to assert that she was not mistaken as the wait staff due to her race, it's up to you to prove that she was. Stating two facts does not mean they have a causal relationship, no matter how much you want them to be.

Why does that poster have to prove anything to you? Do you conduct such a thorough examindation of each statement in every single thread you read? If not, I guess we can make a few assumptions about you as well.

Wow, never thought I'd offend so many by trying to bring a little sanity into this little racial kumbaya of a thread. So if we all went around making baseless assertions without the need to back them up, and we derided those who offered a different opinion or questioned the logic behind the assertion, you really think that's a good recipe for effective communications?

Just stop. Mellody could have added she was the only black guest at the party and you'd question if her dress pattern resembled an apron. Anything to avoid giving the benefit of the doubt.

[Anonymous]

Seriously OP? Is it 1960 in your corner of the world? Can't believe you thought this was an okay thing to proclaim on the internet. Hope you're not saying it out loud IRL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seriously OP? Is it 1960 in your corner of the world? Can't believe you thought this was an okay thing to proclaim on the internet. Hope you're not saying it out loud IRL.

Not OP fault, he's from Canada, its his bigoted neighbors who brought up the question. He was confused because he know's nothing about White flight so he came here to get answers, funny that the Asians have the same mentality as whites when it comes to AA. I'll keep that in mind down the line

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously OP? Is it 1960 in your corner of the world? Can't believe you thought this was an okay thing to proclaim on the internet. Hope you're not saying it out loud IRL.

Not OP fault, he's from Canada, its his bigoted neighbors who brought up the question. He was confused because he know's nothing about White flight so he came here to get answers, funny that the Asians have the same mentality as whites when it comes to AA. I'll keep that in mind down the line

Whites leaving neighborhood is white flight = whites behaving badly.
Whites entering neighborhood is gentrification = whites behaving badly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously OP? Is it 1960 in your corner of the world? Can't believe you thought this was an okay thing to proclaim on the internet. Hope you're not saying it out loud IRL.

Not OP fault, he's from Canada, its his bigoted neighbors who brought up the question. He was confused because he know's nothing about White flight so he came here to get answers, funny that the Asians have the same mentality as whites when it comes to AA. I'll keep that in mind down the line

Whites leaving neighborhood is white flight = whites behaving badly.
Whites entering neighborhood is gentrification = whites behaving badly.

Sorry but wasn't it his White neighbors that expressed concern over the "BLACKS" moving into "THEIR" neighborhood simply because they were black? Wasn't it his neighbors who didn't want tooo many AA wealthy or not buying up the homes on sell in the neighborhood? Why cant u people own up to your own ignorance? The OP isn't even Black he/she is White so your post makes Zero sense. they are behaving badly, and that perception is based upon their ACTIONS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously OP? Is it 1960 in your corner of the world? Can't believe you thought this was an okay thing to proclaim on the internet. Hope you're not saying it out loud IRL.

Not OP fault, he's from Canada, its his bigoted neighbors who brought up the question. He was confused because he know's nothing about White flight so he came here to get answers, funny that the Asians have the same mentality as whites when it comes to AA. I'll keep that in mind down the line

Whites leaving neighborhood is white flight = whites behaving badly.
Whites entering neighborhood is gentrification = whites behaving badly.

Whites staying in white neighborhoods is NIMBY= Whites behaving badly

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously OP? Is it 1960 in your corner of the world? Can't believe you thought this was an okay thing to proclaim on the internet. Hope you're not saying it out loud IRL.

Not OP fault, he's from Canada, its his bigoted neighbors who brought up the question. He was confused because he know's nothing about White flight so he came here to get answers, funny that the Asians have the same mentality as whites when it comes to AA. I'll keep that in mind down the line

Whites leaving neighborhood is white flight = whites behaving badly.
Whites entering neighborhood is gentrification = whites behaving badly.

Why are you leaving the neighborhood?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[
Whites leaving neighborhood is white flight = whites behaving badly.
Whites entering neighborhood is gentrification = whites behaving badly.

Nowadays anything whites do or say = whites behaving badly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But of course Illinois and esp Indiana are not seen as progressive as Oregon is (despite Oregon not having such a reputation prior to the last few decades)

Oregon and Wash and Calif have few blacks because they did not have huge industries developing at the time of the great migration of blacks from the South. Their black pops are decreasing as white pops are decreasing - with the in migration of asians and hispanics.[i]

This may be true, but I wonder if there is not a white elephant in this discussion. Could it be that the Latino American and Asian American immigrants and the U.S.-born descendants of those immigrants, who have settled in states like California, also bring with them, and pass along to their families some biases against certain groups? I think that no one wants to discuss or explore the question because, let us face it, some political groups in this country - and particularly in California - thrive and prosper on a political alliance of Latino Americans, Asian Americans, and African Americans; when in fact those groups often have very different needs and interests.

For example, I believe it was a Latino American legislator in California who just last year proposed getting rid of, or curbing, the California law which prohibits the use of affirmative action (yes, California unbelievably passed such a law some time ago) in admissions decisions to California state universities and colleges. There was so much blowback and concern among California's Asian American legislators, driven by a firestorm from their constituents, that the Latino American legislator agreed -- after discussion with his party -- that it would be in the better interest of political party alliances and unity to drop that proposed measure. I also, again only by second-hand anecdote, recall reading another comment to an article on California's African American diaspora, wherein a self-indentified African American business owner, said that as enthusiastic as a potential Asian American customer might be to work with him and his business as the discussion takes place on the phone, they almost never hire him for the job once he shows up in person. And you can google many stories about African American families made to feel unwelcome, or worse, in California's Latino American neighborhoods.

Truly terrible, and though I feel that we rightly hear about Caucasian American discrimination against African Americans and Latino Americans, I feel that no one wants to discuss the discrimination, bias, or animosity which these minority groups can exhibit towards one another.

AMEN.

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I think it has been typical for many immigrants to identify with and work to be closer to white Americans and to do the opposite with black Americans. After all, when you yourself are in a vulnerable position, you will see it as in your interest to be identified with the people in power and to reject association with the people at the bottom. It's not just but it is out there.

What's to discuss? People at the bottom of the totem pole try to find someone else they can look down on. When it comes to discrimination, the difference between minority groups and white people is that the worst of minorities is representative of all minorities, while the best of white people is representative of all white people.
[i]

The highlighted and combined comments just do not get it. First, you make the mistake of assuming that the discrimination that African Americans experience in California from Latino Americans and Asian Americans comes only from "immigrants" in a "vulnerable position" at the "bottom of the totem pole." I hate to break your stereotypes, but a lot of the Latino Americans and Asian Americans in California are wealthy, connected, and at the top of the pecking order in their communities.

You don't believe me? Well, look at a city like Miami, Florida, where African Americans experience discrimination from wealthy Latino American business owners and professionals who come from Columbia, Cuba, Venezuela, and Argentina. One common practice is to ask an African American job applicant if they can speak Spanish, as the customer base in Miami is so Latin American and most people can speak Spanish (and English as well), and then deny the African American candidate the employment on the basis that they cannot speak Spanish. A perhaps legitimate job requirement used as a tool of discrimination.

So, yes, other ethnicities, cultures, and races do import their biases and discriminatory attitudes towards African Americans when they settle in the United States -- whether we care to acknowledge it or not -- and not because they are "vulnerable" "immigrants" "at the bottom of the totem pole".