Do you consider race when looking for a neighborhood to live in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But of course Illinois and esp Indiana are not seen as progressive as Oregon is (despite Oregon not having such a reputation prior to the last few decades)

Oregon and Wash and Calif have few blacks because they did not have huge industries developing at the time of the great migration of blacks from the South. Their black pops are decreasing as white pops are decreasing - with the in migration of asians and hispanics.[i]

This may be true, but I wonder if there is not a white elephant in this discussion. Could it be that the Latino American and Asian American immigrants and the U.S.-born descendants of those immigrants, who have settled in states like California, also bring with them, and pass along to their families some biases against certain groups? I think that no one wants to discuss or explore the question because, let us face it, some political groups in this country - and particularly in California - thrive and prosper on a political alliance of Latino Americans, Asian Americans, and African Americans; when in fact those groups often have very different needs and interests.

For example, I believe it was a Latino American legislator in California who just last year proposed getting rid of, or curbing, the California law which prohibits the use of affirmative action (yes, California unbelievably passed such a law some time ago) in admissions decisions to California state universities and colleges. There was so much blowback and concern among California's Asian American legislators, driven by a firestorm from their constituents, that the Latino American legislator agreed -- after discussion with his party -- that it would be in the better interest of political party alliances and unity to drop that proposed measure. I also, again only by second-hand anecdote, recall reading another comment to an article on California's African American diaspora, wherein a self-indentified African American business owner, said that as enthusiastic as a potential Asian American customer might be to work with him and his business as the discussion takes place on the phone, they almost never hire him for the job once he shows up in person. And you can google many stories about African American families made to feel unwelcome, or worse, in California's Latino American neighborhoods.

Truly terrible, and though I feel that we rightly hear about Caucasian American discrimination against African Americans and Latino Americans, I feel that no one wants to discuss the discrimination, bias, or animosity which these minority groups can exhibit towards one another.

AMEN.

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I think it has been typical for many immigrants to identify with and work to be closer to white Americans and to do the opposite with black Americans. After all, when you yourself are in a vulnerable position, you will see it as in your interest to be identified with the people in power and to reject association with the people at the bottom. It's not just but it is out there.

What's to discuss? People at the bottom of the totem pole try to find someone else they can look down on. When it comes to discrimination, the difference between minority groups and white people is that the worst of minorities is representative of all minorities, while the best of white people is representative of all white people.
[i]

The highlighted and combined comments just do not get it. First, you make the mistake of assuming that the discrimination that African Americans experience in California from Latino Americans and Asian Americans comes only from "immigrants" in a "vulnerable position" at the "bottom of the totem pole." I hate to break your stereotypes, but a lot of the Latino Americans and Asian Americans in California are wealthy, connected, and at the top of the pecking order in their communities.

You don't believe me? Well, look at a city like Miami, Florida, where African Americans experience discrimination from wealthy Latino American business owners and professionals who come from Columbia, Cuba, Venezuela, and Argentina. One common practice is to ask an African American job applicant if they can speak Spanish, as the customer base in Miami is so Latin American and most people can speak Spanish (and English as well), and then deny the African American candidate the employment on the basis that they cannot speak Spanish. A perhaps legitimate job requirement used as a tool of discrimination.

So, yes, other ethnicities, cultures, and races do import their biases and discriminatory attitudes towards African Americans when they settle in the United States -- whether we care to acknowledge it or not -- and not because they are "vulnerable" "immigrants" "at the bottom of the totem pole".

While I agree that the aforementioned incidents of black guests being mistaken as waitstaff are likely due to their race, claiming that what you rightfully call a "legitimate job requirement" is actually a racist tool does not sound convincing, unless you can demonstrate that people of other races are routinely hired in the same positions without knowledge of Spanish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But of course Illinois and esp Indiana are not seen as progressive as Oregon is (despite Oregon not having such a reputation prior to the last few decades)

Oregon and Wash and Calif have few blacks because they did not have huge industries developing at the time of the great migration of blacks from the South. Their black pops are decreasing as white pops are decreasing - with the in migration of asians and hispanics.[i]

This may be true, but I wonder if there is not a white elephant in this discussion. Could it be that the Latino American and Asian American immigrants and the U.S.-born descendants of those immigrants, who have settled in states like California, also bring with them, and pass along to their families some biases against certain groups? I think that no one wants to discuss or explore the question because, let us face it, some political groups in this country - and particularly in California - thrive and prosper on a political alliance of Latino Americans, Asian Americans, and African Americans; when in fact those groups often have very different needs and interests.

For example, I believe it was a Latino American legislator in California who just last year proposed getting rid of, or curbing, the California law which prohibits the use of affirmative action (yes, California unbelievably passed such a law some time ago) in admissions decisions to California state universities and colleges. There was so much blowback and concern among California's Asian American legislators, driven by a firestorm from their constituents, that the Latino American legislator agreed -- after discussion with his party -- that it would be in the better interest of political party alliances and unity to drop that proposed measure. I also, again only by second-hand anecdote, recall reading another comment to an article on California's African American diaspora, wherein a self-indentified African American business owner, said that as enthusiastic as a potential Asian American customer might be to work with him and his business as the discussion takes place on the phone, they almost never hire him for the job once he shows up in person. And you can google many stories about African American families made to feel unwelcome, or worse, in California's Latino American neighborhoods.

Truly terrible, and though I feel that we rightly hear about Caucasian American discrimination against African Americans and Latino Americans, I feel that no one wants to discuss the discrimination, bias, or animosity which these minority groups can exhibit towards one another.

AMEN.

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I think it has been typical for many immigrants to identify with and work to be closer to white Americans and to do the opposite with black Americans. After all, when you yourself are in a vulnerable position, you will see it as in your interest to be identified with the people in power and to reject association with the people at the bottom. It's not just but it is out there.

What's to discuss? People at the bottom of the totem pole try to find someone else they can look down on. When it comes to discrimination, the difference between minority groups and white people is that the worst of minorities is representative of all minorities, while the best of white people is representative of all white people.
[i]

The highlighted and combined comments just do not get it. First, you make the mistake of assuming that the discrimination that African Americans experience in California from Latino Americans and Asian Americans comes only from "immigrants" in a "vulnerable position" at the "bottom of the totem pole." I hate to break your stereotypes, but a lot of the Latino Americans and Asian Americans in California are wealthy, connected, and at the top of the pecking order in their communities.

You don't believe me? Well, look at a city like Miami, Florida, where African Americans experience discrimination from wealthy Latino American business owners and professionals who come from Columbia, Cuba, Venezuela, and Argentina. One common practice is to ask an African American job applicant if they can speak Spanish, as the customer base in Miami is so Latin American and most people can speak Spanish (and English as well), and then deny the African American candidate the employment on the basis that they cannot speak Spanish. A perhaps legitimate job requirement used as a tool of discrimination.

So, yes, other ethnicities, cultures, and races do import their biases and discriminatory attitudes towards African Americans when they settle in the United States -- whether we care to acknowledge it or not -- and not because they are "vulnerable" "immigrants" "at the bottom of the totem pole".

To take this even further, blacks in latin, euro and asian countries are also looked down upon, simply because they are dark. So many of them come to states straight up racist (the older generation anyway). And yet they (and white women) take advantage of civil rights policies that were a direct result of the work of blacks (and empathetic whites).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's the frustrating thing about 21st-century discrimination. Educated people will not call you the "n" word or display other overt signs of racism. Instead, it's the very ambiguity and the subtlety of these interactions that can be frustrating. At least with overt displays, you know where you stand. With less overt displays, in isolation they are harder to prove, and perhaps easy to dismiss as a one-off. You may tell yourself you're being paranoid. But it's the accumulation of these sorts of interactions--being mistaken for staff, etc.--that happen on a regular basis that may convince the recipient that race/ethnicity was the determining factor in their unfair or differential treatment.

How about you stop fixating on race and stop worrying what other people think about you? I think that white folks get annoyed with AAs because 90% of what they talk about is race. At some point you need to just buckle down, study, and work hard. The milking of "discrimination!" for all it's worth needs to stop.

How about you not entering a thread clearly marked "race" if you don't want to hear what posters have to say?

I'm trying to explain to the poster that one reason people may take her race into account is that she is constantly bitching about race.

So some rando caterer who's never seen that PP in her/his life is going to hold that PP's "constantly bitching about race" against that PP? That's pretty impressive.

[Anonymous]

You have smart neighbors. Get out before you lose a lot of money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But of course Illinois and esp Indiana are not seen as progressive as Oregon is (despite Oregon not having such a reputation prior to the last few decades)

Oregon and Wash and Calif have few blacks because they did not have huge industries developing at the time of the great migration of blacks from the South. Their black pops are decreasing as white pops are decreasing - with the in migration of asians and hispanics.[i]

This may be true, but I wonder if there is not a white elephant in this discussion. Could it be that the Latino American and Asian American immigrants and the U.S.-born descendants of those immigrants, who have settled in states like California, also bring with them, and pass along to their families some biases against certain groups? I think that no one wants to discuss or explore the question because, let us face it, some political groups in this country - and particularly in California - thrive and prosper on a political alliance of Latino Americans, Asian Americans, and African Americans; when in fact those groups often have very different needs and interests.

For example, I believe it was a Latino American legislator in California who just last year proposed getting rid of, or curbing, the California law which prohibits the use of affirmative action (yes, California unbelievably passed such a law some time ago) in admissions decisions to California state universities and colleges. There was so much blowback and concern among California's Asian American legislators, driven by a firestorm from their constituents, that the Latino American legislator agreed -- after discussion with his party -- that it would be in the better interest of political party alliances and unity to drop that proposed measure. I also, again only by second-hand anecdote, recall reading another comment to an article on California's African American diaspora, wherein a self-indentified African American business owner, said that as enthusiastic as a potential Asian American customer might be to work with him and his business as the discussion takes place on the phone, they almost never hire him for the job once he shows up in person. And you can google many stories about African American families made to feel unwelcome, or worse, in California's Latino American neighborhoods.

Truly terrible, and though I feel that we rightly hear about Caucasian American discrimination against African Americans and Latino Americans, I feel that no one wants to discuss the discrimination, bias, or animosity which these minority groups can exhibit towards one another.

AMEN.

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I think it has been typical for many immigrants to identify with and work to be closer to white Americans and to do the opposite with black Americans. After all, when you yourself are in a vulnerable position, you will see it as in your interest to be identified with the people in power and to reject association with the people at the bottom. It's not just but it is out there.

What's to discuss? People at the bottom of the totem pole try to find someone else they can look down on. When it comes to discrimination, the difference between minority groups and white people is that the worst of minorities is representative of all minorities, while the best of white people is representative of all white people.
[i]

The highlighted and combined comments just do not get it. First, you make the mistake of assuming that the discrimination that African Americans experience in California from Latino Americans and Asian Americans comes only from "immigrants" in a "vulnerable position" at the "bottom of the totem pole." I hate to break your stereotypes, but a lot of the Latino Americans and Asian Americans in California are wealthy, connected, and at the top of the pecking order in their communities.

You don't believe me? Well, look at a city like Miami, Florida, where African Americans experience discrimination from wealthy Latino American business owners and professionals who come from Columbia, Cuba, Venezuela, and Argentina. One common practice is to ask an African American job applicant if they can speak Spanish, as the customer base in Miami is so Latin American and most people can speak Spanish (and English as well), and then deny the African American candidate the employment on the basis that they cannot speak Spanish. A perhaps legitimate job requirement used as a tool of discrimination.

So, yes, other ethnicities, cultures, and races do import their biases and discriminatory attitudes towards African Americans when they settle in the United States -- whether we care to acknowledge it or not -- and not because they are "vulnerable" "immigrants" "at the bottom of the totem pole".

Nobody's arguing that there aren't well-to-do, powerful immigrants or that they're not racist before they even get here. The point above was made because there are immigrants who aren't powerful or well-to-do who do not feel any solidarity with poor African Americans because they know that the white middle class can do a whole lot more for them than working class or poor African Americans. It's a simple cost-benefit calculation which is no doubt reinforced by the prejudice you describe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's the frustrating thing about 21st-century discrimination. Educated people will not call you the "n" word or display other overt signs of racism. Instead, it's the very ambiguity and the subtlety of these interactions that can be frustrating. At least with overt displays, you know where you stand. With less overt displays, in isolation they are harder to prove, and perhaps easy to dismiss as a one-off. You may tell yourself you're being paranoid. But it's the accumulation of these sorts of interactions--being mistaken for staff, etc.--that happen on a regular basis that may convince the recipient that race/ethnicity was the determining factor in their unfair or differential treatment.

How about you stop fixating on race and stop worrying what other people think about you? I think that white folks get annoyed with AAs because 90% of what they talk about is race. At some point you need to just buckle down, study, and work hard. The milking of "discrimination!" for all it's worth needs to stop.

How about you not entering a thread clearly marked "race" if you don't want to hear what posters have to say?

I'm trying to explain to the poster that one reason people may take her race into account is that she is constantly bitching about race.

So some rando caterer who's never seen that PP in her/his life is going to hold that PP's "constantly bitching about race" against that PP? That's pretty impressive.

Seriously. I'm white and I live and work with lots of AAs and they rarely - rarely - talk about race. This idea that AAs talk about race 90% of the time is based on pp's vague memory of some Al Sharpton press conference. What planet does he/she live on?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's the frustrating thing about 21st-century discrimination. Educated people will not call you the "n" word or display other overt signs of racism. Instead, it's the very ambiguity and the subtlety of these interactions that can be frustrating. At least with overt displays, you know where you stand. With less overt displays, in isolation they are harder to prove, and perhaps easy to dismiss as a one-off. You may tell yourself you're being paranoid. But it's the accumulation of these sorts of interactions--being mistaken for staff, etc.--that happen on a regular basis that may convince the recipient that race/ethnicity was the determining factor in their unfair or differential treatment.

How about you stop fixating on race and stop worrying what other people think about you? I think that white folks get annoyed with AAs because 90% of what they talk about is race. At some point you need to just buckle down, study, and work hard. The milking of "discrimination!" for all it's worth needs to stop.

How about you not entering a thread clearly marked "race" if you don't want to hear what posters have to say?

I'm trying to explain to the poster that one reason people may take her race into account is that she is constantly bitching about race.

So some rando caterer who's never seen that PP in her/his life is going to hold that PP's "constantly bitching about race" against that PP? That's pretty impressive.

Seriously. I'm white and I live and work with lots of AAs and they rarely - rarely - talk about race. This idea that AAs talk about race 90% of the time is based on pp's vague memory of some Al Sharpton press conference. What planet does he/she live on?

earth

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our neighborhood has almost no diversity- ethnic or economic. It would probably be a good thing if more non-whites moved in; as it is now, minorities don't want to consider our neighborhood out of fear their kid would be the only non-white kid in his class.

That said, I admit that when my daughter and I checked out a park in the next neighborhood over last week, we were literally the only white people there and it made me a little nervous. Nothing happened, of course, and I'm not sure my daughter even noticed, but I did think, "wow, so this is what it's like. This must suck on a daily basis!"

This is why I persuaded my husband *not* to buy in an all-white neighborhood in MoCo. We are a well-educated black family (two doctoral degrees) that wants the same things for our children that everyone else does--good schools, green space, welcoming neighbors. We wouldn't want to be scorned or viewed suspiciously in our own neighborhood.

We are often the only Asian-American family everywhere we go and we feel fine.