Do you consider race when looking for a neighborhood to live in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm one of the PPs above who posted about choosing a diverse neighborhood and school.

The experiences of Hobson and the other PP are awful and humiliating. As a white person, I can sympathize. But I also see it as my duty to take action, and one important way to do that is through the choices I make as a parent. Thinking about the white people who made those mistakes, it is my fervent hope that because of where and how they've been raised, my white children will not bring that kind of unconscious bias into their adulthood.

PP, we all have unconscious biases. We're human, and that's the way our brains are wired--for efficiency. When we look at an individual with a certain set of characteristics, we rapidly attach labels to them based on the limited data we have. We may associated certain traits with those labels, "good," "bad," "scary," "safe," etc., based on our experiences.

As an illustration, a colleague of mind took a test of unconscious bias called the racial Stroop while we were in grad school. She was disappointed to learn that the test revealed that she seemed to prefer white faces to those of her own ethnic group. No one is immune.

I'm not exactly sure what to do about this, but I think the one of the keys is just being aware of this human tendency, so that it doesn't unduly govern our behavior when we're interacting with others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's the frustrating thing about 21st-century discrimination. Educated people will not call you the "n" word or display other overt signs of racism. Instead, it's the very ambiguity and the subtlety of these interactions that can be frustrating. At least with overt displays, you know where you stand. With less overt displays, in isolation they are harder to prove, and perhaps easy to dismiss as a one-off. You may tell yourself you're being paranoid. But it's the accumulation of these sorts of interactions--being mistaken for staff, etc.--that happen on a regular basis that may convince the recipient that race/ethnicity was the determining factor in their unfair or differential treatment.

How about you stop fixating on race and stop worrying what other people think about you? I think that white folks get annoyed with AAs because 90% of what they talk about is race. At some point you need to just buckle down, study, and work hard. The milking of "discrimination!" for all it's worth needs to stop.

How about you not entering a thread clearly marked "race" if you don't want to hear what posters have to say?

I'm trying to explain to the poster that one reason people may take her race into account is that she is constantly bitching about race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's the frustrating thing about 21st-century discrimination. Educated people will not call you the "n" word or display other overt signs of racism. Instead, it's the very ambiguity and the subtlety of these interactions that can be frustrating. At least with overt displays, you know where you stand. With less overt displays, in isolation they are harder to prove, and perhaps easy to dismiss as a one-off. You may tell yourself you're being paranoid. But it's the accumulation of these sorts of interactions--being mistaken for staff, etc.--that happen on a regular basis that may convince the recipient that race/ethnicity was the determining factor in their unfair or differential treatment.

How about you stop fixating on race and stop worrying what other people think about you? I think that white folks get annoyed with AAs because 90% of what they talk about is race. At some point you need to just buckle down, study, and work hard. The milking of "discrimination!" for all it's worth needs to stop.

White people talk and think about race more than African Americans...sorry the obsession is on your people not mine. Just listen to the Hulk Hogan tapes. were not obsessed. We dont have fraternity songs about lynching white people. We dont have white racial jokes to tell our friends. The fact that you people come up with these things when NO BLACKS are around show's u giving attention to race

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm one of the PPs above who posted about choosing a diverse neighborhood and school.

The experiences of Hobson and the other PP are awful and humiliating. As a white person, I can sympathize. But I also see it as my duty to take action, and one important way to do that is through the choices I make as a parent. Thinking about the white people who made those mistakes, it is my fervent hope that because of where and how they've been raised, my white children will not bring that kind of unconscious bias into their adulthood.

PP, we all have unconscious biases. We're human, and that's the way our brains are wired--for efficiency. When we look at an individual with a certain set of characteristics, we rapidly attach labels to them based on the limited data we have. We may associated certain traits with those labels, "good," "bad," "scary," "safe," etc., based on our experiences.

As an illustration, a colleague of mind took a test of unconscious bias called the racial Stroop while we were in grad school. She was disappointed to learn that the test revealed that she seemed to prefer white faces to those of her own ethnic group. No one is immune.

I'm not exactly sure what to do about this, but I think the one of the keys is just being aware of this human tendency, so that it doesn't unduly govern our behavior when we're interacting with others.

PP here again. Just saw this in my news feed regarding managing unconscious bias.

http://newsroom.fb.com/news/2015/07/managing-unconscious-bias/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's the frustrating thing about 21st-century discrimination. Educated people will not call you the "n" word or display other overt signs of racism. Instead, it's the very ambiguity and the subtlety of these interactions that can be frustrating. At least with overt displays, you know where you stand. With less overt displays, in isolation they are harder to prove, and perhaps easy to dismiss as a one-off. You may tell yourself you're being paranoid. But it's the accumulation of these sorts of interactions--being mistaken for staff, etc.--that happen on a regular basis that may convince the recipient that race/ethnicity was the determining factor in their unfair or differential treatment.

How about you stop fixating on race and stop worrying what other people think about you? I think that white folks get annoyed with AAs because 90% of what they talk about is race. At some point you need to just buckle down, study, and work hard. The milking of "discrimination!" for all it's worth needs to stop.

How about you not entering a thread clearly marked "race" if you don't want to hear what posters have to say?

I'm trying to explain to the poster that one reason people may take her race into account is that she is constantly bitching about race.

Do you actually know this person? how do you know that"she is constantly bitching about race?" Or are you one of those people who doesn't listen to a thing black people say until they mention the word race? Then, you accuse them of constantly talking about it, when in fact, you ignore or dismiss 90% of what they say?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We have an AA couple + kids on our block in CC. I'm a white person, so I don't get it 100%, but I think I understand the concerns (fear of random stops by the locals cops, being a suburban pioneer, how will the other kids treat my kids, etc.), and I have no doubt that they are rational. But in honesty I don't think you would be treated significantly differently than other neighbors. (Its not like we're all hosting daily evening neighborhood BBQs and hosting swingers evenings.)

I'm the one who first posted doubts about CC. It's a whole host of things, not just how neighbors treat you. I'm not trying to be facetious or snarky, but you're right that you don't get it 100% - I"m not sure it's possible for you to know or think about all the ways discriminatory behavior can happen. One PP mentioned fear of her husband getting harassed for jogging through his own neighborhood. My husband and I went to a party at a friend's house and the caterer, thinking I was part of her staff, jumped on me for using the guest bathroom. It's these seemingly insignificant "oops" moments, some innocuous and some pretty harmful, that can add up. My main concern is unconscious bias from teachers and school administrators. Small things with big impact that are hard to talk about, harder to prove, but factor into decisions about where to live. Especially if I'm paying ballpark $1 million for a house.

OMG how did u handle that? that reminded me of that crazy story Melody Hobson Princeton Grad and Billionaire George Lucas wife told about hosting a fundraiser for a black politician and showing up only to be taken to the back room by a "manager" and questioned why she wasn't in the proper attire for the event. Women thought Melody was there as part of the wait staff

She is not just his wife
She is President of a Capital Management company, author, and TV personality

Never heard of her, so had to look her up--she's amazing! Apparently she inspired Sheryl Sandberg to write Lean In. Thanks, DCUM!

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/03/mellody-hobson-ariel-investments-fighting-stereotype

So where the other black people at that event, including the AA politician, treated the same way? Or were there no other AA people in attendance except for Melody?

My point is, how can you assert that her race is what caused her to be mistaken as the wait staff?

How can you assert that it was not. It is amazing to me that plenty of folks can come on here and write about their experiences, or IRL tell someone about their experience and for the most part it is taken for face value that the person writing/speaking has an accurate assessment of the situation that they were, you know, actually in! However, when a POC tries to say they were in situation that was racist/offensive/insensitive, their perspective is picked apart 500 ways to Sunday.
It.Is.Tiresome

I see that logical reasoning is not one of your strengths. Rational people typically examine the evidence and come to a rational conclusion. For a rational person to conclude that race was the cause of something, they would either have direct evidence, or exclusionary evidence. In this case, if other AA people were not treated as the wait staff, then it would pretty clearly eliminate her race as a cause.

I know that thinking in a logical and rational manner takes some effort, it may even be tiresome, but you really should try it some time.

Oh, you are right because of course the person must have time to to discriminate against every dang POC in the room in order to prove discrimination.
And a sexist must do something sexist against every woman he meets, etc.
I truly detest deliberate stupidity

Strawman. That's not my position at all. I'll make it simple: the one making the claim has the burden of proof. So it's not up to me to assert that she was not mistaken as the wait staff due to her race, it's up to you to prove that she was. Stating two facts does not mean they have a causal relationship, no matter how much you want them to be.

Why does that poster have to prove anything to you? Do you conduct such a thorough examindation of each statement in every single thread you read? If not, I guess we can make a few assumptions about you as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's the frustrating thing about 21st-century discrimination. Educated people will not call you the "n" word or display other overt signs of racism. Instead, it's the very ambiguity and the subtlety of these interactions that can be frustrating. At least with overt displays, you know where you stand. With less overt displays, in isolation they are harder to prove, and perhaps easy to dismiss as a one-off. You may tell yourself you're being paranoid. But it's the accumulation of these sorts of interactions--being mistaken for staff, etc.--that happen on a regular basis that may convince the recipient that race/ethnicity was the determining factor in their unfair or differential treatment.

How about you stop fixating on race and stop worrying what other people think about you? I think that white folks get annoyed with AAs because 90% of what they talk about is race. At some point you need to just buckle down, study, and work hard. The milking of "discrimination!" for all it's worth needs to stop.

White people talk and think about race more than African Americans...sorry the obsession is on your people not mine. Just listen to the Hulk Hogan tapes. were not obsessed. We dont have fraternity songs about lynching white people. We dont have white racial jokes to tell our friends. The fact that you people come up with these things when NO BLACKS are around show's u giving attention to race

You are right, white folks birch about race in private. But I think a large part of the reason why is that we are constantly bombarded with messages by the PC police about how evil and racist whites are and anyone who dares to speak in our defense has his career immediately ruined. You bet that when we're alone we like to speak with each other about what BS all of the racial witch hunts and victim-playing are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's the frustrating thing about 21st-century discrimination. Educated people will not call you the "n" word or display other overt signs of racism. Instead, it's the very ambiguity and the subtlety of these interactions that can be frustrating. At least with overt displays, you know where you stand. With less overt displays, in isolation they are harder to prove, and perhaps easy to dismiss as a one-off. You may tell yourself you're being paranoid. But it's the accumulation of these sorts of interactions--being mistaken for staff, etc.--that happen on a regular basis that may convince the recipient that race/ethnicity was the determining factor in their unfair or differential treatment.

How about you stop fixating on race and stop worrying what other people think about you? I think that white folks get annoyed with AAs because 90% of what they talk about is race. At some point you need to just buckle down, study, and work hard. The milking of "discrimination!" for all it's worth needs to stop.

White people talk and think about race more than African Americans...sorry the obsession is on your people not mine. Just listen to the Hulk Hogan tapes. were not obsessed. We dont have fraternity songs about lynching white people. We dont have white racial jokes to tell our friends. The fact that you people come up with these things when NO BLACKS are around show's u giving attention to race

You are right, white folks birch about race in private. But I think a large part of the reason why is that we are constantly bombarded with messages by the PC police about how evil and racist whites are and anyone who dares to speak in our defense has his career immediately ruined. You bet that when we're alone we like to speak with each other about what BS all of the racial witch hunts and victim-playing are.

Kinda like how when slaves were in private they liked to speak with each other about what BS all of the crap about them being inferior to justify beating and whipping and raping them was.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's the frustrating thing about 21st-century discrimination. Educated people will not call you the "n" word or display other overt signs of racism. Instead, it's the very ambiguity and the subtlety of these interactions that can be frustrating. At least with overt displays, you know where you stand. With less overt displays, in isolation they are harder to prove, and perhaps easy to dismiss as a one-off. You may tell yourself you're being paranoid. But it's the accumulation of these sorts of interactions--being mistaken for staff, etc.--that happen on a regular basis that may convince the recipient that race/ethnicity was the determining factor in their unfair or differential treatment.

How about you stop fixating on race and stop worrying what other people think about you? I think that white folks get annoyed with AAs because 90% of what they talk about is race. At some point you need to just buckle down, study, and work hard. The milking of "discrimination!" for all it's worth needs to stop.

White people talk and think about race more than African Americans...sorry the obsession is on your people not mine. Just listen to the Hulk Hogan tapes. were not obsessed. We dont have fraternity songs about lynching white people. We dont have white racial jokes to tell our friends. The fact that you people come up with these things when NO BLACKS are around show's u giving attention to race

You are right, white folks birch about race in private. But I think a large part of the reason why is that we are constantly bombarded with messages by the PC police about how evil and racist whites are and anyone who dares to speak in our defense has his career immediately ruined. You bet that when we're alone we like to speak with each other about what BS all of the racial witch hunts and victim-playing are.

In DEFENSE of white people?! Now, I've read it all. And I'm a white person. And I live and benefit from being in a racially unequal society because I am white. WHY is that so hard for some people to admit?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's the frustrating thing about 21st-century discrimination. Educated people will not call you the "n" word or display other overt signs of racism. Instead, it's the very ambiguity and the subtlety of these interactions that can be frustrating. At least with overt displays, you know where you stand. With less overt displays, in isolation they are harder to prove, and perhaps easy to dismiss as a one-off. You may tell yourself you're being paranoid. But it's the accumulation of these sorts of interactions--being mistaken for staff, etc.--that happen on a regular basis that may convince the recipient that race/ethnicity was the determining factor in their unfair or differential treatment.

How about you stop fixating on race and stop worrying what other people think about you? I think that white folks get annoyed with AAs because 90% of what they talk about is race. At some point you need to just buckle down, study, and work hard. The milking of "discrimination!" for all it's worth needs to stop.

White people talk and think about race more than African Americans...sorry the obsession is on your people not mine. Just listen to the Hulk Hogan tapes. were not obsessed. We dont have fraternity songs about lynching white people. We dont have white racial jokes to tell our friends. The fact that you people come up with these things when NO BLACKS are around show's u giving attention to race

You are right, white folks birch about race in private. But I think a large part of the reason why is that we are constantly bombarded with messages by the PC police about how evil and racist whites are and anyone who dares to speak in our defense has his career immediately ruined. You bet that when we're alone we like to speak with each other about what BS all of the racial witch hunts and victim-playing are.

Wow, this sounds like a full blown case of Fox news paranoia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

So where the other black people at that event, including the AA politician, treated the same way? Or were there no other AA people in attendance except for Melody?

My point is, how can you assert that her race is what caused her to be mistaken as the wait staff?

Exhibit 1 of a person who would see the Klan lighting a cross on a Black family's lawn and suggest "Maybe they were just having a bonfire to welcome the new folks to the neighborhood."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's the frustrating thing about 21st-century discrimination. Educated people will not call you the "n" word or display other overt signs of racism. Instead, it's the very ambiguity and the subtlety of these interactions that can be frustrating. At least with overt displays, you know where you stand. With less overt displays, in isolation they are harder to prove, and perhaps easy to dismiss as a one-off. You may tell yourself you're being paranoid. But it's the accumulation of these sorts of interactions--being mistaken for staff, etc.--that happen on a regular basis that may convince the recipient that race/ethnicity was the determining factor in their unfair or differential treatment.

How about you stop fixating on race and stop worrying what other people think about you? I think that white folks get annoyed with AAs because 90% of what they talk about is race. At some point you need to just buckle down, study, and work hard. The milking of "discrimination!" for all it's worth needs to stop.

White people talk and think about race more than African Americans...sorry the obsession is on your people not mine. Just listen to the Hulk Hogan tapes. were not obsessed. We dont have fraternity songs about lynching white people. We dont have white racial jokes to tell our friends. The fact that you people come up with these things when NO BLACKS are around show's u giving attention to race

You are right, white folks birch about race in private. But I think a large part of the reason why is that we are constantly bombarded with messages by the PC police about how evil and racist whites are and anyone who dares to speak in our defense has his career immediately ruined. You bet that when we're alone we like to speak with each other about what BS all of the racial witch hunts and victim-playing are.

Kinda like how when slaves were in private they liked to speak with each other about what BS all of the crap about them being inferior to justify beating and whipping and raping them was.

Wow great analogy, you must do some very scholarly work wherever you are employed. I seem to remember that the U.S. fought a long bloody war and burned down the south to free the slaves, but let's just keep fixating on slavery for another couple hundred years, right? I bet we'll be able to get some more government handouts if we just keep beating the "racism" drum!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course I do as do most people with means/choices/money. Life shits on poor people and minorities so why would I want to be anywhere near them and get collateral damage. I am a 40 year old white guy and drive a S550 and when I get pulled over it is "sorry Mr XXXXX here is a warning and please be careful as there are other cops looking for ABC out today". When I got pulled over a couple of weeks ago in PG county driving out to Chesapeake beach to go fishing with a black coworker it was "do you have any drugs in the car would you mind if I search?"

Until African American and all under severed minority people find a way to pull their demographic away from being a perpetual punching bag, people like me who don't want to get hit with a stray punch or more importantly don't want their kids getting disproportionally policed and hanging with kids who gave up college dreams in middle school due to SES considerations will create little villages.

I get it, the whole it takes people like me to break down the systemic systems that keeps people being perpetual punching bags but I am not convinced that bucking the status quo which is designed to keep me and my family comfortable and in power would actually do anything but make room for another white or token minority family to hop aboard. Statistically my job is to put my family in the best position to accomplish their dreams and in upper class mostly white areas, schools and networks which are where tomorrows leaders come from. I am not quite enlightened enough to vote with my feet against my own self interests.

I do remain open to people on an individual basis without prejudging and don't discriminate which allows me to consider myself (not raciest) but I actually have no problem taking advantage of the White boys club that has provided me a pretty comfortable life and a high SES with only avg talents and work ethic at my disposal. I guess that is the part for Libs (like me) to reconcile that you can like all people AND the benefits of raciest systems....as long as it was others who had to do the dirty work.

At least you're honest but what bothers me is the way you're blaming the victim. Instead of the police behaving professionally and learning to treat people as individuals, you say it's black people's fault that the police abuse them as a group. Nice.

It is always the Victim's fault is the sad truth. Obviously not morally but righteousness only gets you so far in life. Is it the hungry frog's fault for eating the fly and taking it away from it's family and friends and ending it's life prematurely? It sounds silly to think about it that way but it really isn't any different in human existence. The climb up the ladder of life is on the backs of others and someone will always be the stepper and someone will always be the stepped on. It behooves people not to be easy targets just as some flies have become bitter to frog's tastes it is an evolve or die world and weakness will ALWAYS be exploited by the strong end of story. The only exception to this mandate is strength in numbers or advantageous position.

We teach our kids not to be easy targets to bullies on the play grounds, our girls not to leave their drinks unattended and to not buy from snake oil sales people. This is a manifestation of reality for blaming the victim because that it the person who must bare the costs of exploitation. It is really no different at the race level as whatever has been done by Africans for the past 600 years or so hasn't worked and playing by the white rules trying to inflict change has been a tedious and slow process at best and paper progress at worst.

Again morally I agree with you and the people taking advantage of people is wrong. That said it will keep happening until they do something about it on their terms because THE rules will never allow them parity as it stands today and progress is made so very slowly to allow work around which more or less keep the status quo. Any other frame of thought is idealistic or naive, one can also stand righteously pointing to the evils of the oppressors but when their voice weakens they must still go home and prey they don't get pulled over.

[Anonymous]

Maybe this will help some people out with the reality that people actually live in
I used to wait tables I always treated people the same. Then I started noticing things.
Like the orange people always took forever to eat their food and the purple people never tipped
So I started trying to avoid serving orange and purple people
Does this make me racist against orange and purple people? If you were a purple or orange person wouldn't you do the same thing
Why would you choose to live in a neighborhood with orange and purple people if you had the choice?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's the frustrating thing about 21st-century discrimination. Educated people will not call you the "n" word or display other overt signs of racism. Instead, it's the very ambiguity and the subtlety of these interactions that can be frustrating. At least with overt displays, you know where you stand. With less overt displays, in isolation they are harder to prove, and perhaps easy to dismiss as a one-off. You may tell yourself you're being paranoid. But it's the accumulation of these sorts of interactions--being mistaken for staff, etc.--that happen on a regular basis that may convince the recipient that race/ethnicity was the determining factor in their unfair or differential treatment.

How about you stop fixating on race and stop worrying what other people think about you? I think that white folks get annoyed with AAs because 90% of what they talk about is race. At some point you need to just buckle down, study, and work hard. The milking of "discrimination!" for all it's worth needs to stop.

White people talk and think about race more than African Americans...sorry the obsession is on your people not mine. Just listen to the Hulk Hogan tapes. were not obsessed. We dont have fraternity songs about lynching white people. We dont have white racial jokes to tell our friends. The fact that you people come up with these things when NO BLACKS are around show's u giving attention to race

You are right, white folks birch about race in private. But I think a large part of the reason why is that we are constantly bombarded with messages by the PC police about how evil and racist whites are and anyone who dares to speak in our defense has his career immediately ruined. You bet that when we're alone we like to speak with
each other about what BS all of the racial witch hunts and victim-playing are.

Like Who? Don Imus? He's still working making millions? Rush? He was getting 15 million a year at the height of his fame. The lady on DC Fox News who used a racial slur when talking about Obama on live TV, she still has a job. Who are all these white people being attacked. Your the only one playing the victim. Its not a witch hunt, your being caught on social media being ignorant. you want the "witch hunt" to end...stop being bigots. Some point you have to take responsibility for your OWN ACTIONS