Confederate Battle Flag

[Anonymous]

Guys: Note that the PP actually defended roof's manifesto. When called out on that, he deflected. PP "gets" roof. This isn't about a flag or politics and it isn't about racism for PP. He is genunely emotionally disturbed. Only an emotionally disturbed person would use a defense of the manifesto of a mass killer as a pretext for supporting flying of a racist symbol. PP believes roof was justified. Most racists.don't kill people and most racists wouldn't bother participating in a discussion like this. Only a severely emotionally disturbed person who sympathizes with roof because of a shared delusional world outlook would in the way PP has. He also pretended to be a "jewish girl."

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know who put up that flag in SC? A Democrat - Sen. Ernest Fritz Hollings - he used to be governor and he put it up. Know who the first person to try to get it removed? A conservative republican governor who got no support from the local NAALCP.

Some history for y'all....

This is going to shock you. So, please sit down. Are you sitting down? Ready or not, here goes: Democrats sometimes do stupid things. Democrats sometimes even do racist things.

I'll wait for you to get up off the floor. Do you need a few more minutes? If not, do you know what is important? Recognizing that stupid and/or racist things have been done and trying to correct them. Flying the Confederate flag was wrong. Democrats realized it was wrong some time ago. Today, a Republican governor steped forward to also say that it was wrong and is taking steps to correct the mistake. That's great. You, on the other hand, still don't appear to have realized that it was wrong.

You can't really compare South Carolina Democrats of 50 years ago with the typical Democrat of today. 50 years ago South Carolina Democrats were Dixiecrats, who rallied against their Northern counterparts and fought against civil rights. It would be as illogical and as much of a non-sequitur as likening the typical German to being a Nazi.

[Anonymous]

I'll bet even most racist Dixiecrats from back then wouldn't have defended a mass killer either the way PP has done.

[Anonymous]

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I think it's great that Haley, Scott and Graham have come forward and support of removing the fog, but doesn't South Carolina need a supermajority of the state legislature to actually vote to remove it?

[Anonymous]

*FLAG* not fog, sorry.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know who put up that flag in SC? A Democrat - Sen. Ernest Fritz Hollings - he used to be governor and he put it up. Know who the first person to try to get it removed? A conservative republican governor who got no support from the local NAALCP.

Some history for y'all....

This is going to shock you. So, please sit down. Are you sitting down? Ready or not, here goes: Democrats sometimes do stupid things. Democrats sometimes even do racist things.

I'll wait for you to get up off the floor. Do you need a few more minutes? If not, do you know what is important? Recognizing that stupid and/or racist things have been done and trying to correct them. Flying the Confederate flag was wrong. Democrats realized it was wrong some time ago. Today, a Republican governor steped forward to also say that it was wrong and is taking steps to correct the mistake. That's great. You, on the other hand, still don't appear to have realized that it was wrong.

You can't really compare South Carolina Democrats of 50 years ago with the typical Democrat of today. 50 years ago South Carolina Democrats were Dixiecrats, who rallied against their Northern counterparts and fought against civil rights. It would be as illogical and as much of a non-sequitur as likening the typical German to being a Nazi.

I agree with you, but the poster to whom I was replying was also talking about Bill Clinton in 1987. While I consider him to be not much more than a modern Dixiecrat, others would disagree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:15:38 here -- I suppose it is a cause celebre, because of Dylann Roof. In that case, never mind, I don't care if SC flies the Confederate flag, the Jolly Roger, or the British flag. Or the South African-apartheid flag or the Rhodesian flag. Whatever they want to do.

On this we agree. And let the chips fall where they may.

The warning I have is when progressives continues to move from cause to cause, they begin to look scattered and foolish.

It's not moving from cause to cause. It's the same cause: respect for everyone. It's just when you guys find so many ways to try to subvert that one thing that it looks like we are moving from cause to cause as we try to correct the various wrongs.

+1000

Ironic and bewildering that so many folks who tout themselves as Christians don't seem to grasp some of it's core teachings, such as "treat others as you would have them treat you"

Is that why you don't respect their desire not cater a gay wedding? Shut em down! Drive them out of business! They are hateful bigots! Tolerance to liberals means 'see it my way or I will come after you until you do'.

Apparently that *is* their desire. Homophobic bakers who want to shut off their business with certain people apparently want to have others refuse to do business with them in kind.

Or did you maybe think that treating others badly was supposed to be a one-way street?

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know who put up that flag in SC? A Democrat - Sen. Ernest Fritz Hollings - he used to be governor and he put it up. Know who the first person to try to get it removed? A conservative republican governor who got no support from the local NAALCP.

Some history for y'all....

This is going to shock you. So, please sit down. Are you sitting down? Ready or not, here goes: Democrats sometimes do stupid things. Democrats sometimes even do racist things.

I'll wait for you to get up off the floor. Do you need a few more minutes? If not, do you know what is important? Recognizing that stupid and/or racist things have been done and trying to correct them. Flying the Confederate flag was wrong. Democrats realized it was wrong some time ago. Today, a Republican governor steped forward to also say that it was wrong and is taking steps to correct the mistake. That's great. You, on the other hand, still don't appear to have realized that it was wrong.

You can't really compare South Carolina Democrats of 50 years ago with the typical Democrat of today. 50 years ago South Carolina Democrats were Dixiecrats, who rallied against their Northern counterparts and fought against civil rights. It would be as illogical and as much of a non-sequitur as likening the typical German to being a Nazi.

I agree with you, but the poster to whom I was replying was also talking about Bill Clinton in 1987. While I consider him to be not much more than a modern Dixiecrat, others would disagree.

Hm, I wasn't aware that Bill Clinton voted against civil rights and hoisted a Confederate flag over the state house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Guys: Note that the PP actually defended roof's manifesto. When called out on that, he deflected. PP "gets" roof. This isn't about a flag or politics and it isn't about racism for PP. He is genunely emotionally disturbed. Only an emotionally disturbed person would use a defense of the manifesto of a mass killer as a pretext for supporting flying of a racist symbol. PP believes roof was justified. Most racists.don't kill people and most racists wouldn't bother participating in a discussion like this. Only a severely emotionally disturbed person who sympathizes with roof because of a shared delusional world outlook would in the way PP has. He also pretended to be a "jewish girl."

I am PP. You are jumping to conclusions. If you want to understand why Roof did what he did, it's probably a good idea to listen to his own words. And it would be wise for the media to do the same and see how they can affect those who are mentally imbalanced. It's up to all of us to be good stewards in word and action.

Pretending to be a Jewish girl? Um, no. That's who I am. But carry on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect that some of the people digging their heels in about this flag and its "symbolism" as honoring their heritage are the same people that tell AA's to get over slavery

There is a huge difference...the flag is flying TODAY...slavery ended 150 years ago. Problems and injustices since? Sure. But slavery is a blight on our history, but it is history.

Nope, people in support of the flag say that they are not racist - they just want to honor their heritage and history - a period that represents that same periond 150 years ago. Yet, when AA's want to talk about how the other side of the same the history coin and how it has created cetain issues that still linger, they are told to get over it. Either we cling to history or we don't, but there cannot be double standards about it.

They say "heritage and history" but that's really just a couple of vague words and one needs to dig a little deeper into the specifics of what that's supposed to mean.

Southerners also like to say the Civil War was about "states rights" - but that's also meaningless without an accompanying discussion of state's right TO DO WHAT? That's where the real answer emerges - it was about the states' rights to continue to practice slavery and to expand the practice of slavery into western territories.

Unless you tell the FULL story you aren't telling the story and aren't being honest.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know who put up that flag in SC? A Democrat - Sen. Ernest Fritz Hollings - he used to be governor and he put it up. Know who the first person to try to get it removed? A conservative republican governor who got no support from the local NAALCP.

Some history for y'all....

This is going to shock you. So, please sit down. Are you sitting down? Ready or not, here goes: Democrats sometimes do stupid things. Democrats sometimes even do racist things.

I'll wait for you to get up off the floor. Do you need a few more minutes? If not, do you know what is important? Recognizing that stupid and/or racist things have been done and trying to correct them. Flying the Confederate flag was wrong. Democrats realized it was wrong some time ago. Today, a Republican governor steped forward to also say that it was wrong and is taking steps to correct the mistake. That's great. You, on the other hand, still don't appear to have realized that it was wrong.

Agreed. I do understand that. The progressive moral outrage at a Republican governor over this, considering the Clintons/flag in Arkansas, and the history of how that flag started flying on the State House tells me it's simply cause celebre. So what's next?

I said it was a part of SC history and that it was SC who should decide when the time was right to take it down. I support Nicki Haley's decision to do so - it's her decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know who put up that flag in SC? A Democrat - Sen. Ernest Fritz Hollings - he used to be governor and he put it up. Know who the first person to try to get it removed? A conservative republican governor who got no support from the local NAALCP.

Some history for y'all....

This is going to shock you. So, please sit down. Are you sitting down? Ready or not, here goes: Democrats sometimes do stupid things. Democrats sometimes even do racist things.

I'll wait for you to get up off the floor. Do you need a few more minutes? If not, do you know what is important? Recognizing that stupid and/or racist things have been done and trying to correct them. Flying the Confederate flag was wrong. Democrats realized it was wrong some time ago. Today, a Republican governor steped forward to also say that it was wrong and is taking steps to correct the mistake. That's great. You, on the other hand, still don't appear to have realized that it was wrong.

You can't really compare South Carolina Democrats of 50 years ago with the typical Democrat of today. 50 years ago South Carolina Democrats were Dixiecrats, who rallied against their Northern counterparts and fought against civil rights. It would be as illogical and as much of a non-sequitur as likening the typical German to being a Nazi.

I agree with you, but the poster to whom I was replying was also talking about Bill Clinton in 1987. While I consider him to be not much more than a modern Dixiecrat, others would disagree.

Hm, I wasn't aware that Bill Clinton voted against civil rights and hoisted a Confederate flag over the state house.

He did support that flag. In 1987. And celebrated Confederacy day. And there seems to be campaign buttons with Clinton/Gore and the confederate flag. Not an issue for you? Didn't think so.

Now put Bush/Cheney on that same campaign button. The media coverage would have been a shitstorm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:15:38 here -- I suppose it is a cause celebre, because of Dylann Roof. In that case, never mind, I don't care if SC flies the Confederate flag, the Jolly Roger, or the British flag. Or the South African-apartheid flag or the Rhodesian flag. Whatever they want to do.

On this we agree. And let the chips fall where they may.

The warning I have is when progressives continues to move from cause to cause, they begin to look scattered and foolish.

It's not moving from cause to cause. It's the same cause: respect for everyone. It's just when you guys find so many ways to try to subvert that one thing that it looks like we are moving from cause to cause as we try to correct the various wrongs.

+1000

Ironic and bewildering that so many folks who tout themselves as Christians don't seem to grasp some of it's core teachings, such as "treat others as you would have them treat you"

Is that why you don't respect their desire not cater a gay wedding? Shut em down! Drive them out of business! They are hateful bigots! Tolerance to liberals means 'see it my way or I will come after you until you do'.

Apparently that *is* their desire. Homophobic bakers who want to shut off their business with certain people apparently want to have others refuse to do business with them in kind.

Or did you maybe think that treating others badly was supposed to be a one-way street?

Well, I guess that gay bakers and businesses don't have to cater Christian events either. That works for me. And probably for the Christians as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guys: Note that the PP actually defended roof's manifesto. When called out on that, he deflected. PP "gets" roof. This isn't about a flag or politics and it isn't about racism for PP. He is genunely emotionally disturbed. Only an emotionally disturbed person would use a defense of the manifesto of a mass killer as a pretext for supporting flying of a racist symbol. PP believes roof was justified. Most racists.don't kill people and most racists wouldn't bother participating in a discussion like this. Only a severely emotionally disturbed person who sympathizes with roof because of a shared delusional world outlook would in the way PP has. He also pretended to be a "jewish girl."

I am PP. You are jumping to conclusions. If you want to understand why Roof did what he did, it's probably a good idea to listen to his own words. And it would be wise for the media to do the same and see how they can affect those who are mentally imbalanced. It's up to all of us to be good stewards in word and action.

Pretending to be a Jewish girl? Um, no. That's who I am. But carry on.

PP you just exposed you own sock puppetry. It wasn't your false "Jewish girl-antique dealer-who is cool with Nazi memorobilia" persona that had earlier defended roof's manifesto.

I understand perfectly well why roof did what he did--he's a severely disturbed paranoid schizophrenic. He may also be a flag waiving racist but that's just a shell or overlay over his insane core.

The fact that you would claim that insight to someone like roof is gained by looking at his manifesto in a literal sense rather than as a symbolic manifestation or expression of his mental illness proves conclusively that you very likely are also mentally disturbed, hopefully not nearly as.bad as roof though.

The only connection between the Trayvon Martin case and the murder of 9 people in a church is one that coukd only occur in the mind of a severely mentally ill person, like roof.

Or you.

Manifesto THAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Respect for everyone? Really? Respect for Christians? Israelis? Southerners? Flyover country?

Yes, for everyone. Really. For example, I absolutely defend your right to flag your racist flag at your house, even if it offends all your reasonable neighbors. Can you see the difference?