Confederate Battle Flag

[Anonymous]

FLY your racist flag....freudian slip? It's so hard for me to fathom why you'd want to.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:PP you just exposed you own sock puppetry. It wasn't your false "Jewish girl-antique dealer-who is cool with Nazi memorobilia" persona that had earlier defended roof's manifesto.

Let me just say that is not a persona and she doesn't sock puppet. There is no accounting for her political positions, but she isn't faking any of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guys: Note that the PP actually defended roof's manifesto. When called out on that, he deflected. PP "gets" roof. This isn't about a flag or politics and it isn't about racism for PP. He is genunely emotionally disturbed. Only an emotionally disturbed person would use a defense of the manifesto of a mass killer as a pretext for supporting flying of a racist symbol. PP believes roof was justified. Most racists.don't kill people and most racists wouldn't bother participating in a discussion like this. Only a severely emotionally disturbed person who sympathizes with roof because of a shared delusional world outlook would in the way PP has. He also pretended to be a "jewish girl."

I am PP. You are jumping to conclusions. If you want to understand why Roof did what he did, it's probably a good idea to listen to his own words. And it would be wise for the media to do the same and see how they can affect those who are mentally imbalanced. It's up to all of us to be good stewards in word and action.

Pretending to be a Jewish girl? Um, no. That's who I am. But carry on.

PP you just exposed you own sock puppetry. It wasn't your false "Jewish girl-antique dealer-who is cool with Nazi memorobilia" persona that had earlier defended roof's manifesto.

I understand perfectly well why roof did what he did--he's a severely disturbed paranoid schizophrenic. He may also be a flag waiving racist but that's just a shell or overlay over his insane core.

The fact that you would claim that insight to someone like roof is gained by looking at his manifesto in a literal sense rather than as a symbolic manifestation or expression of his mental illness proves conclusively that you very likely are also mentally disturbed, hopefully not nearly as.bad as roof though.

The only connection between the Trayvon Martin case and the murder of 9 people in a church is one that coukd only occur in the mind of a severely mentally ill person, like roof.

Or you.

Manifesto THAT.

You are a strange, sad person

That is my point - Roof is the one who looked at the Martin case and used it as a springboard. And his writings give profilers insight to his type of mindset. If you don't think that's true, I suggest you do some reading on the subject.

I have no idea what you are saying about sock puppetry.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP you just exposed you own sock puppetry. It wasn't your false "Jewish girl-antique dealer-who is cool with Nazi memorobilia" persona that had earlier defended roof's manifesto.

Let me just say that is not a persona and she doesn't sock puppet. There is no accounting for her political positions, but she isn't faking any of that.

Thank you Jeff. We don't agree, yes. I appreciate you speaking up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Respect for everyone? Really? Respect for Christians? Israelis? Southerners? Flyover country?

Yes, for everyone. Really. For example, I absolutely defend your right to flag your racist flag at your house, even if it offends all your reasonable neighbors. Can you see the difference?

You honestly believe progressives show respect to the above groups?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guys: Note that the PP actually defended roof's manifesto. When called out on that, he deflected. PP "gets" roof. This isn't about a flag or politics and it isn't about racism for PP. He is genunely emotionally disturbed. Only an emotionally disturbed person would use a defense of the manifesto of a mass killer as a pretext for supporting flying of a racist symbol. PP believes roof was justified. Most racists.don't kill people and most racists wouldn't bother participating in a discussion like this. Only a severely emotionally disturbed person who sympathizes with roof because of a shared delusional world outlook would in the way PP has. He also pretended to be a "jewish girl."

I am PP. You are jumping to conclusions. If you want to understand why Roof did what he did, it's probably a good idea to listen to his own words. And it would be wise for the media to do the same and see how they can affect those who are mentally imbalanced. It's up to all of us to be good stewards in word and action.

Pretending to be a Jewish girl? Um, no. That's who I am. But carry on.

Simply saying "he was mentally unstable" and declaring case closed and walking away is intellectually dishonest.

Mentally unstable, why not then attack people because he thought they were Alien mind stealers or possessed by Satan or something similarly insane and bizarre?

No, this attack had a lot more specificity, detail and focus to it.

Yes, he was mentally unstable, but the ideas in his head did not come from nowhere. They did not come out of a vacuum. Dylann Roof's manifesto was under the moniker "The Last Rhodesian". He appears in some pictures wearing a jacket with the flags of Apartheid South Africa and Rhodesia. Those are also symbols in addition to the Confederate flag which are closely associated with the white supremacy movement. Yet, he is only 21, British Rhodesia ceased to exist long before he was born - its not as though he would have had some other incidental connection. Likewise, South African Apartheid ended before he was born. He had to have been taught about those, by someone. Also, you don't simply stumble across Rhodesian flag patches at your local five and dime, your Wal-mart or elsewhere, that would have had to have been an item that someone either gave to him or which he ordered specially from someone who deals in symbols that most others selling similar articles would not touch with a ten foot pole. There are so very, very many indications that Dylann Roof was in contact with other white supremacists, that he was studying white supremacy and feeding on and being enabled and empowered by the racist sentiments of others. Yes, he was mentally unstable, but there is a whole lot more to the story which still needs to be investigated.

Frankly, I think police should investigate everyone whom Dylann Roof was in contact with, to find out which others were espousing similar themes and embracing similar ideologies of white supremacy, to prosecute them alongside Roof as accomplices to the murders, because they too had a hand in this.

[Anonymous]

I assume he learned all of it on the internet. But maybe he had an in-person mentor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You honestly believe progressives show respect to the above groups?

I probably wouldn't characterize an entire group of people as having one trait or another. However, I think some conservatives confuse not being able to control others with having their rights infringed upon. Marriage equality is the perfect example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I assume he learned all of it on the internet. But maybe he had an in-person mentor.

Or at the very least people that he was in correspondence with.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP you just exposed you own sock puppetry. It wasn't your false "Jewish girl-antique dealer-who is cool with Nazi memorobilia" persona that had earlier defended roof's manifesto.

Let me just say that is not a persona and she doesn't sock puppet. There is no accounting for her political positions, but she isn't faking any of that.

It says "anonymous" when he she or they post so unless you're going to tell me that the posts are coming from different ip addresses.and you are able to confirm that he she or they is not using a proxy server then thanks but I'll draw.my own conclusions. I realize you are the moderator but that doesn't mean anyone has to accept such pronouncements as accurate unless youbexplain the basisfor your knowledge.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know who put up that flag in SC? A Democrat - Sen. Ernest Fritz Hollings - he used to be governor and he put it up. Know who the first person to try to get it removed? A conservative republican governor who got no support from the local NAALCP.

Some history for y'all....

This is going to shock you. So, please sit down. Are you sitting down? Ready or not, here goes: Democrats sometimes do stupid things. Democrats sometimes even do racist things.

I'll wait for you to get up off the floor. Do you need a few more minutes? If not, do you know what is important? Recognizing that stupid and/or racist things have been done and trying to correct them. Flying the Confederate flag was wrong. Democrats realized it was wrong some time ago. Today, a Republican governor steped forward to also say that it was wrong and is taking steps to correct the mistake. That's great. You, on the other hand, still don't appear to have realized that it was wrong.

You can't really compare South Carolina Democrats of 50 years ago with the typical Democrat of today. 50 years ago South Carolina Democrats were Dixiecrats, who rallied against their Northern counterparts and fought against civil rights. It would be as illogical and as much of a non-sequitur as likening the typical German to being a Nazi.

I agree with you, but the poster to whom I was replying was also talking about Bill Clinton in 1987. While I consider him to be not much more than a modern Dixiecrat, others would disagree.

Yes, and why doesn't anyone ever say this? Not all Democrats like the Clintons and the fact that Bill is ok with the Confederate flag means absolutely nothing to me. He does not represent progressives as far as I am concerned.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:I assume he learned all of it on the internet. But maybe he had an in-person mentor.

He apparently was a regular poster on a sort of white supremacist version of DCUM:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall/dylann-roof-appears-to-have-regularly-commented-on-a-neo-naz#.sgMmkQKRA

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP you just exposed you own sock puppetry. It wasn't your false "Jewish girl-antique dealer-who is cool with Nazi memorobilia" persona that had earlier defended roof's manifesto.

Let me just say that is not a persona and she doesn't sock puppet. There is no accounting for her political positions, but she isn't faking any of that.

It says "anonymous" when he she or they post so unless you're going to tell me that the posts are coming from different ip addresses.and you are able to confirm that he she or they is not using a proxy server then thanks but I'll draw.my own conclusions. I realize you are the moderator but that doesn't mean anyone has to accept such pronouncements as accurate unless youbexplain the basisfor your knowledge.

Don't be an idiot. There is probably no poster on this website that I know more about than that one (well, I may know slightly more about my wife). I am not going to go into all the details of how I know, but I guarantee that I know far more about her than you do. I actually do know whether or not she uses the same IP address and/or uses a proxy. You don't know either. You are welcome to you own conclusions, but I'm letting everyone else know that they should ignore your conclusions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guys: Note that the PP actually defended roof's manifesto. When called out on that, he deflected. PP "gets" roof. This isn't about a flag or politics and it isn't about racism for PP. He is genunely emotionally disturbed. Only an emotionally disturbed person would use a defense of the manifesto of a mass killer as a pretext for supporting flying of a racist symbol. PP believes roof was justified. Most racists.don't kill people and most racists wouldn't bother participating in a discussion like this. Only a severely emotionally disturbed person who sympathizes with roof because of a shared delusional world outlook would in the way PP has. He also pretended to be a "jewish girl."

I am PP. You are jumping to conclusions. If you want to understand why Roof did what he did, it's probably a good idea to listen to his own words. And it would be wise for the media to do the same and see how they can affect those who are mentally imbalanced. It's up to all of us to be good stewards in word and action.

Pretending to be a Jewish girl? Um, no. That's who I am. But carry on.

Simply saying "he was mentally unstable" and declaring case closed and walking away is intellectually dishonest.

Mentally unstable, why not then attack people because he thought they were Alien mind stealers or possessed by Satan or something similarly insane and bizarre?

No, this attack had a lot more specificity, detail and focus to it.

Yes, he was mentally unstable, but the ideas in his head did not come from nowhere. They did not come out of a vacuum. Dylann Roof's manifesto was under the moniker "The Last Rhodesian". He appears in some pictures wearing a jacket with the flags of Apartheid South Africa and Rhodesia. Those are also symbols in addition to the Confederate flag which are closely associated with the white supremacy movement. Yet, he is only 21, British Rhodesia ceased to exist long before he was born - its not as though he would have had some other incidental connection. Likewise, South African Apartheid ended before he was born. He had to have been taught about those, by someone. Also, you don't simply stumble across Rhodesian flag patches at your local five and dime, your Wal-mart or elsewhere, that would have had to have been an item that someone either gave to him or which he ordered specially from someone who deals in symbols that most others selling similar articles would not touch with a ten foot pole. There are so very, very many indications that Dylann Roof was in contact with other white supremacists, that he was studying white supremacy and feeding on and being enabled and empowered by the racist sentiments of others. Yes, he was mentally unstable, but there is a whole lot more to the story which still needs to be investigated.

Frankly, I think police should investigate everyone whom Dylann Roof was in contact with, to find out which others were espousing similar themes and embracing similar ideologies of white supremacy, to prosecute them alongside Roof as accomplices to the murders, because they too had a hand in this.

And none of what you just said logically relates to murdering 9 people. So it's not intellectually dishonest at all. Charles Manson had his reasons to. So did the unibomber. So did McVeigh. You are mistaking the seeming internal logical consistency closed loop quality of a schizophrenic delusion for an externally verifiable I.e. sane reasoning process. The manifesto only includes that which the crazy person can weave into the pattern of the delusion.

The vast majority of racist, Rhodesians, and flag flyers don't murder nine people in a church. None of those things or issues caused roof to murder. That's like saying we need to analyze Mark David Chapman's reasons on a literal level to "understand" why he killed John Lennon. Roof didn't kill because of the.media or because of what you or I or anyone else thinks a confederate flag might symbolize in a political debate among mentally healthy people.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP you just exposed you own sock puppetry. It wasn't your false "Jewish girl-antique dealer-who is cool with Nazi memorobilia" persona that had earlier defended roof's manifesto.

Let me just say that is not a persona and she doesn't sock puppet. There is no accounting for her political positions, but she isn't faking any of that.

It says "anonymous" when he she or they post so unless you're going to tell me that the posts are coming from different ip addresses.and you are able to confirm that he she or they is not using a proxy server then thanks but I'll draw.my own conclusions. I realize you are the moderator but that doesn't mean anyone has to accept such pronouncements as accurate unless youbexplain the basisfor your knowledge.

Don't be an idiot. There is probably no poster on this website that I know more about than that one (well, I may know slightly more about my wife). I am not going to go into all the details of how I know, but I guarantee that I know far more about her than you do. I actually do know whether or not she uses the same IP address and/or uses a proxy. You don't know either. You are welcome to you own conclusions, but I'm letting everyone else know that they should ignore your conclusions.

Ha!! That's scary! Lol. Eh, I think I'd like you Jeff. Political differences aside, you have a great sense of humor, seem to be a wonderful husband and father, are intelligent and thoughtful, and have a fine ear for music.