8 Skiers dead after accidental Avalanche in California!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nature is harsh. You can prepare and have all the experience and training and equipment in the world but when it becomes man against natural forces - be it fire, water, cold, snow - nature is stronger.

But there is also an incredible amount of reward for spending time in nature and reaping the benefits of the beauty and adventure. Is there a risk - of course. But life has risk and you only live one life. We can all die tomorrow. For those of us who aren't risk adverse, you accept the risk of nature and adventure just like you do every time you get in your car.

This last bit is utter hogwash a bunch of you are regurgitating in one form or another. This wasn't a time anyone was traipsing about enjoying nature.

They chose to go out in terrible conditions when they shouldn't. They may have been worried if they didn't have enough food. Either they were arrogant or they were desperate. The facts are what most of us want to know. [/quote]

+ 1 million

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Things I don't do as a mom, ski, take helicoper rides, white water rafting or go bungie jumping.

I was supposed to take a helicopter ride over the Grand Canyon with my family. I held one son back and let the others go. I also skipped on white water rafting because my son was just at the weight limit. They said if he fell out we could not rescue him. Nope.

There are great books about disasters and safety in the Grand Canyon and other sites. This is a fascinating book "Over the Edge: Death in the Grand Canyon" by Tom Myers and Michael Ghiglieri. No go on the flights over the Grand Canyon. I'd read this before I go.

I once went parasailing with my 4 yr old daughter. She slid (but remained) in the bucket seat and her one leg was dangling.. Yes, she was strapped. Yes she was next to me...but if the rope would have snapped we would have drowned or become shark food. Nope. Not messing with the sea. Not messing with all the crazed sharks filled with dumped fentanyl and pollutant.

The recent story of the 14 yr old Australian boy who swam in choppy sea for hours to get help for his mom and two siblings is just a miracle. Most people would have drowned or died. No one from my family could have swam for more than 20 minutes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who has a pool or a dog or a gun or a car is more of a risk taker than these women.

So so dumb. No, this is not true. We have failed the citizens in this country with the poor job with have done teaching basic stats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who has a pool or a dog or a gun or a car is more of a risk taker than these women.

That might sound nice in your head but it's not remotely true. Are we supposed to feel sorry for these people? I guess I feel vaguely sorry for their kids, but these were stupid women doing a stupid thing.

The same amount of sorry I would feel for someone whose kid drowns in a pool or who gets eaten by a dog.

I feel sorry for all of them. Life has risks and is meant to be enjoyed despite those risks. Very few people die in backcountry avalanches - it isn't very risky at all compared to many other things people do.

I can't believe I'm joining in this stupid aside but you aren't comparing apples to apples in any way.

This group headed out in dangerous conditions when avalanche risks in their area were high. We aren't comparing to people out in the backcountry in non threatening conditions. You are being dumb.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nature is harsh. You can prepare and have all the experience and training and equipment in the world but when it becomes man against natural forces - be it fire, water, cold, snow - nature is stronger.

But there is also an incredible amount of reward for spending time in nature and reaping the benefits of the beauty and adventure. Is there a risk - of course. But life has risk and you only live one life. We can all die tomorrow. For those of us who aren't risk adverse, you accept the risk of nature and adventure just like you do every time you get in your car.

This last bit is utter hogwash a bunch of you are regurgitating in one form or another. This wasn't a time anyone was traipsing about enjoying nature.

They chose to go out in terrible conditions when they shouldn't. They may have been worried if they didn't have enough food. Either they were arrogant or they were desperate. The facts are what most of us want to know.

+ 1 million

In the end, their judgement and decision turned out to be horrible for them. I am not arguing that. But people do make similar bad judgement call and nothing terrible happens to them. They were not making a terrible moral decision that would kill other people - like waging war on others. They took a risk with their own life and maybe 9 out of 10 times nothing bad would have happened to them. Yes, bad lapse of judgement, bad luck, bad decision....

But, they did not deserve to die for this decision, their family did not deserve to lose them and we can still mourn for their senseless death. It is still extremely tragic and it is heartbreaking to hear. No one can argue with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is tragic.

I'll never be faced with this dilemma, because although I love to ski, backcountry skiing is well beyond my ability level. But, even if I were inclined to do so, stories like this would make me reconsider.

Same but I love watching videos of it. I *wish* I could do it. It looks amazing - like flying. I think it would be addictive.

I'm interested in hearing what drove their decisions. Someone upthread said they ran out of food. Maybe knowing they'd be stuck for days in the cabins with no food drove them to try to get out.

The guides and hut bookings dictate the schedule. You have to move on as the next group arrives at the hut. They are fully booked with a new group heading out every day. The cabins are small and people are paying a lot of money for these trips.

I have done backcountry hikes and there is zero flexibility in the schedule. One time when we couldn't move on due to a crazy rain storm and a flooded river, we had no accommodation as the next group had already moved in. We had to sleep outside and we had equipment but the temperature had dropped much lower than expected and it was really, really cold and wet.

It's not rocket science that people die when bad decisions are made. For example when hiking Mt Everest and getting caught in a storm. Yet it happens year after year. But you don't need to climb Mt Everest or ski in the back country.

+1 Too many posters trying to defend stupidity and hubris as being brave and adventuresome.

Some of us are neither defending it, nor relishing it and milking the moment to feel superior. It’s called being a decent human being.

Hogwash. The more we talk about it the more people might reconsider thrill seeking for the sake of thrill seeking. They can't say they didn't know there weren't risks, or worse, avalanches are unknown and completely unpredictable.

However, the CONDITIONS for creating avalanches are predictable.

Heavy, high volume snow + craggy peaks & river valleys + sunny warmer day temps = moving supporting downhill snow (uphill avalanche starts) or cleaving off snow (downhill avalanche starts) = avalanche

Well plus skiers. But for the skiers might have been a different story. Humans trigger avalanches.

They absolutely do. There was a story about a well-known backcountry guide in Utah who set off an avalanche ironically while leading an avalanche safety class. He was buried for over 20 minutes and his team was able to locate him with the beacon and dig him out, but he had a rough recovery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, tragedy, exclamation point!

We make better decisions and are better people. Smug smile.

FAFO, the tension builds…

They’re rich, white, privileged women and bad things happened to them…yes, yes, right there, oh yeahhhhh!

It's not being smug to realize it actually doesn't take much of a brain to review weather reports before traveling and think perhaps best to not go back country skiing when the probability of major snowfall and avalanches have been predicted for a week in an area known for heavy, dangerous snowfalls. Even more important to use sound judgment when you have young children.

Pasting the info re weather predicted that they ignored from Outside Magazine ...

Intense Snowfall and Wind: Forecasts predicted a major winter storm dropping several feet of snow, with rates of 2 to 4 inches per hour. This was accompanied by dangerous, high-velocity wind gusts, with some estimates reaching up to 100 mph, which further destabilized the snowpack.

High Avalanche Danger: The Sierra Avalanche Center rated the danger as "high" (four out of five) for Tuesday, Feb 17, noting that "natural avalanches are likely, and human-triggered avalanches large enough to bury or injure people are very likely".

Blizzard Conditions: Visibility was reported as almost zero, with "insane" weather conditions in the region.

Pre-Existing Warnings: Avalanche warnings and advisories to stay home were issued by officials (such as CHP Truckee) the day before and the day of the incident.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is tragic.

I'll never be faced with this dilemma, because although I love to ski, backcountry skiing is well beyond my ability level. But, even if I were inclined to do so, stories like this would make me reconsider.

Same but I love watching videos of it. I *wish* I could do it. It looks amazing - like flying. I think it would be addictive.

I'm interested in hearing what drove their decisions. Someone upthread said they ran out of food. Maybe knowing they'd be stuck for days in the cabins with no food drove them to try to get out.

The guides and hut bookings dictate the schedule. You have to move on as the next group arrives at the hut. They are fully booked with a new group heading out every day. The cabins are small and people are paying a lot of money for these trips.

I have done backcountry hikes and there is zero flexibility in the schedule. One time when we couldn't move on due to a crazy rain storm and a flooded river, we had no accommodation as the next group had already moved in. We had to sleep outside and we had equipment but the temperature had dropped much lower than expected and it was really, really cold and wet.

So weird that when that happened and inclement weather means doubling up, all these like minded Extreme Sports folks don’t let everyone stay inside the damn hut overnight.

It’s out of everyone’s control. Double up the hut.

And like someone else said, there wouldn’t have been another group coming in, because of the weather. I think they saw it as their only chance to get out for the next few days based on weather predictions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is tragic.

I'll never be faced with this dilemma, because although I love to ski, backcountry skiing is well beyond my ability level. But, even if I were inclined to do so, stories like this would make me reconsider.

Same but I love watching videos of it. I *wish* I could do it. It looks amazing - like flying. I think it would be addictive.

I'm interested in hearing what drove their decisions. Someone upthread said they ran out of food. Maybe knowing they'd be stuck for days in the cabins with no food drove them to try to get out.

The guides and hut bookings dictate the schedule. You have to move on as the next group arrives at the hut. They are fully booked with a new group heading out every day. The cabins are small and people are paying a lot of money for these trips.

I have done backcountry hikes and there is zero flexibility in the schedule. One time when we couldn't move on due to a crazy rain storm and a flooded river, we had no accommodation as the next group had already moved in. We had to sleep outside and we had equipment but the temperature had dropped much lower than expected and it was really, really cold and wet.

I can not believe they would force them out in these conditions. Did you see what the pp posted about forcing people to stay in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nature is harsh. You can prepare and have all the experience and training and equipment in the world but when it becomes man against natural forces - be it fire, water, cold, snow - nature is stronger.

But there is also an incredible amount of reward for spending time in nature and reaping the benefits of the beauty and adventure. Is there a risk - of course. But life has risk and you only live one life. We can all die tomorrow. For those of us who aren't risk adverse, you accept the risk of nature and adventure just like you do every time you get in your car.

This last bit is utter hogwash a bunch of you are regurgitating in one form or another. This wasn't a time anyone was traipsing about enjoying nature.

They chose to go out in terrible conditions when they shouldn't. They may have been worried if they didn't have enough food. Either they were arrogant or they were desperate. The facts are what most of us want to know.

+ 1 million

In the end, their judgement and decision turned out to be horrible for them. I am not arguing that. But people do make similar bad judgement call and nothing terrible happens to them. They were not making a terrible moral decision that would kill other people - like waging war on others. They took a risk with their own life and maybe 9 out of 10 times nothing bad would have happened to them. Yes, bad lapse of judgement, bad luck, bad decision....

But, they did not deserve to die for this decision, their family did not deserve to lose them and we can still mourn for their senseless death. It is still extremely tragic and it is heartbreaking to hear. No one can argue with that.

Nobody said they deserve it. But what are you even comparing this to? There is absolutely zero need to engage in high risk adventures. Just, none. This isn't like getting in your car to drive to work. And where did you decide 9/10? Just making things up? If they hadn't gone skiing at all, they would be alive. They didn't need to go on a dangerous trip, during an avalanche warning, on that day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Things I don't do as a mom, ski, take helicoper rides, white water rafting or go bungie jumping.

I was supposed to take a helicopter ride over the Grand Canyon with my family. I held one son back and let the others go. I also skipped on white water rafting because my son was just at the weight limit. They said if he fell out we could not rescue him. Nope.

There are great books about disasters and safety in the Grand Canyon and other sites. This is a fascinating book "Over the Edge: Death in the Grand Canyon" by Tom Myers and Michael Ghiglieri. No go on the flights over the Grand Canyon. I'd read this before I go.

I once went parasailing with my 4 yr old daughter. She slid (but remained) in the bucket seat and her one leg was dangling.. Yes, she was strapped. Yes she was next to me...but if the rope would have snapped we would have drowned or become shark food. Nope. Not messing with the sea. Not messing with all the crazed sharks filled with dumped fentanyl and pollutant.

The recent story of the 14 yr old Australian boy who swam in choppy sea for hours to get help for his mom and two siblings is just a miracle. Most people would have drowned or died. No one from my family could have swam for more than 20 minutes.

I can not believe there are not age limits for parasailing. No 4 year old should be parasailing. What were you thinking?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is tragic.

I'll never be faced with this dilemma, because although I love to ski, backcountry skiing is well beyond my ability level. But, even if I were inclined to do so, stories like this would make me reconsider.

Same but I love watching videos of it. I *wish* I could do it. It looks amazing - like flying. I think it would be addictive.

I'm interested in hearing what drove their decisions. Someone upthread said they ran out of food. Maybe knowing they'd be stuck for days in the cabins with no food drove them to try to get out.

The guides and hut bookings dictate the schedule. You have to move on as the next group arrives at the hut. They are fully booked with a new group heading out every day. The cabins are small and people are paying a lot of money for these trips.

I have done backcountry hikes and there is zero flexibility in the schedule. One time when we couldn't move on due to a crazy rain storm and a flooded river, we had no accommodation as the next group had already moved in. We had to sleep outside and we had equipment but the temperature had dropped much lower than expected and it was really, really cold and wet.

So weird that when that happened and inclement weather means doubling up, all these like minded Extreme Sports folks don’t let everyone stay inside the damn hut overnight.

It’s out of everyone’s control. Double up the hut.

And like someone else said, there wouldn’t have been another group coming in, because of the weather. I think they saw it as their only chance to get out for the next few days based on weather predictions.

And even so...in a life threatening situation, I can not imagine sending people out if I were the next group. They might be sleeping on the floor but they would be inside.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Things I don't do as a mom, ski, take helicoper rides, white water rafting or go bungie jumping.

I was supposed to take a helicopter ride over the Grand Canyon with my family. I held one son back and let the others go. I also skipped on white water rafting because my son was just at the weight limit. They said if he fell out we could not rescue him. Nope.

There are great books about disasters and safety in the Grand Canyon and other sites. This is a fascinating book "Over the Edge: Death in the Grand Canyon" by Tom Myers and Michael Ghiglieri. No go on the flights over the Grand Canyon. I'd read this before I go.

I once went parasailing with my 4 yr old daughter. She slid (but remained) in the bucket seat and her one leg was dangling.. Yes, she was strapped. Yes she was next to me...but if the rope would have snapped we would have drowned or become shark food. Nope. Not messing with the sea. Not messing with all the crazed sharks filled with dumped fentanyl and pollutant.

The recent story of the 14 yr old Australian boy who swam in choppy sea for hours to get help for his mom and two siblings is just a miracle. Most people would have drowned or died. No one from my family could have swam for more than 20 minutes.

I can not believe there are not age limits for parasailing. No 4 year old should be parasailing. What were you thinking?

"my 4 yr old cannot live without me so if I do something inherently dangerous and potentially deadly, kid is coming with me"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nature is harsh. You can prepare and have all the experience and training and equipment in the world but when it becomes man against natural forces - be it fire, water, cold, snow - nature is stronger.

But there is also an incredible amount of reward for spending time in nature and reaping the benefits of the beauty and adventure. Is there a risk - of course. But life has risk and you only live one life. We can all die tomorrow. For those of us who aren't risk adverse, you accept the risk of nature and adventure just like you do every time you get in your car.

This last bit is utter hogwash a bunch of you are regurgitating in one form or another. This wasn't a time anyone was traipsing about enjoying nature.

They chose to go out in terrible conditions when they shouldn't. They may have been worried if they didn't have enough food. Either they were arrogant or they were desperate. The facts are what most of us want to know.

+ 1 million

In the end, their judgement and decision turned out to be horrible for them. I am not arguing that. But people do make similar bad judgement call and nothing terrible happens to them. They were not making a terrible moral decision that would kill other people - like waging war on others. They took a risk with their own life and maybe 9 out of 10 times nothing bad would have happened to them. Yes, bad lapse of judgement, bad luck, bad decision....

But, they did not deserve to die for this decision, their family did not deserve to lose them and we can still mourn for their senseless death. It is still extremely tragic and it is heartbreaking to hear. No one can argue with that.

Nobody said they deserve it. But what are you even comparing this to? There is absolutely zero need to engage in high risk adventures. Just, none. This isn't like getting in your car to drive to work. And where did you decide 9/10? Just making things up? If they hadn't gone skiing at all, they would be alive. They didn't need to go on a dangerous trip, during an avalanche warning, on that day.

+1. Backcountry skiiers take this risk because they want the adventure, otherwise they would be skiing on safe, groomed runs. It's a tragedy nonetheless.

[Anonymous]

I doubt the survivors will offer any details that provide closure. They knew the risk, they still headed out and they died. End of story.