8 Skiers dead after accidental Avalanche in California!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Things I don't do as a mom, ski, take helicoper rides, white water rafting or go bungie jumping.

I was supposed to take a helicopter ride over the Grand Canyon with my family. I held one son back and let the others go. I also skipped on white water rafting because my son was just at the weight limit. They said if he fell out we could not rescue him. Nope.

There are great books about disasters and safety in the Grand Canyon and other sites. This is a fascinating book "Over the Edge: Death in the Grand Canyon" by Tom Myers and Michael Ghiglieri. No go on the flights over the Grand Canyon. I'd read this before I go.

I once went parasailing with my 4 yr old daughter. She slid (but remained) in the bucket seat and her one leg was dangling.. Yes, she was strapped. Yes she was next to me...but if the rope would have snapped we would have drowned or become shark food. Nope. Not messing with the sea. Not messing with all the crazed sharks filled with dumped fentanyl and pollutant.

The recent story of the 14 yr old Australian boy who swam in choppy sea for hours to get help for his mom and two siblings is just a miracle. Most people would have drowned or died. No one from my family could have swam for more than 20 minutes.

I can not believe there are not age limits for parasailing. No 4 year old should be parasailing. What were you thinking?

"my 4 yr old cannot live without me so if I do something inherently dangerous and potentially deadly, kid is coming with me"

Assuming the activity would be 100% fatal to both parties. However, imagine a 4-year-old slipping out of an adult harness and you get to watch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nature is harsh. You can prepare and have all the experience and training and equipment in the world but when it becomes man against natural forces - be it fire, water, cold, snow - nature is stronger.

But there is also an incredible amount of reward for spending time in nature and reaping the benefits of the beauty and adventure. Is there a risk - of course. But life has risk and you only live one life. We can all die tomorrow. For those of us who aren't risk adverse, you accept the risk of nature and adventure just like you do every time you get in your car.

This last bit is utter hogwash a bunch of you are regurgitating in one form or another. This wasn't a time anyone was traipsing about enjoying nature.

They chose to go out in terrible conditions when they shouldn't. They may have been worried if they didn't have enough food. Either they were arrogant or they were desperate. The facts are what most of us want to know.

+ 1 million

In the end, their judgement and decision turned out to be horrible for them. I am not arguing that. But people do make similar bad judgement call and nothing terrible happens to them. They were not making a terrible moral decision that would kill other people - like waging war on others. They took a risk with their own life and maybe 9 out of 10 times nothing bad would have happened to them. Yes, bad lapse of judgement, bad luck, bad decision....

But, they did not deserve to die for this decision, their family did not deserve to lose them and we can still mourn for their senseless death. It is still extremely tragic and it is heartbreaking to hear. No one can argue with that.

PP here. No argument from me. I agree they didn't deserve to die. I still think some choices are obviously poor ones that will likely not go well. Like choosing to surf in the Atlantic Ocean as a predicted Category 4 or 5 hurricane approaches. Exciting but very dangerous and likely deadly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Things I don't do as a mom, ski, take helicoper rides, white water rafting or go bungie jumping.

I was supposed to take a helicopter ride over the Grand Canyon with my family. I held one son back and let the others go. I also skipped on white water rafting because my son was just at the weight limit. They said if he fell out we could not rescue him. Nope.

There are great books about disasters and safety in the Grand Canyon and other sites. This is a fascinating book "Over the Edge: Death in the Grand Canyon" by Tom Myers and Michael Ghiglieri. No go on the flights over the Grand Canyon. I'd read this before I go.

I once went parasailing with my 4 yr old daughter. She slid (but remained) in the bucket seat and her one leg was dangling.. Yes, she was strapped. Yes she was next to me...but if the rope would have snapped we would have drowned or become shark food. Nope. Not messing with the sea. Not messing with all the crazed sharks filled with dumped fentanyl and pollutant.

The recent story of the 14 yr old Australian boy who swam in choppy sea for hours to get help for his mom and two siblings is just a miracle. Most people would have drowned or died. No one from my family could have swam for more than 20 minutes.

I can not believe there are not age limits for parasailing. No 4 year old should be parasailing. What were you thinking?

"my 4 yr old cannot live without me so if I do something inherently dangerous and potentially deadly, kid is coming with me"

You’re a dumb a&& parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I doubt the survivors will offer any details that provide closure. They knew the risk, they still headed out and they died. End of story.

But maybe the guides assured them it was safe and they relied on them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, tragedy, exclamation point!

We make better decisions and are better people. Smug smile.

FAFO, the tension builds…

They’re rich, white, privileged women and bad things happened to them…yes, yes, right there, oh yeahhhhh!

It's not being smug to realize it actually doesn't take much of a brain to review weather reports before traveling and think perhaps best to not go back country skiing when the probability of major snowfall and avalanches have been predicted for a week in an area known for heavy, dangerous snowfalls. Even more important to use sound judgment when you have young children.

Unf the whole situation is congruent with that high death rate Everest year in 1998 or wherever.

The cyclone storm was on radar for coming and a bunch of people decided to still go for it during a short window. Some refused to turn back at the magic 2pm afternoon time to make it down safely in a normal day and got caught so high up no help could come until next day light.

One group aborted and didn’t try to summit. They all lived.

Half of another group went quickly, made it down.

Another group coddled some slow people and half got caught near the summit, below the summit, and that texas guy somehow made it to a small high up base camp.

I believe the Texas guy was a surgeon who lost both his hands due to frost bite. A costly error.

^ Responding my myself b/c I wanted to get it right. He was a pathologist who lost 1 hand and fingers from the other. But the interesting thing about him is after this disaster he turned his life around and no longer sought out extreme adventures. He instead prioritized his family and fixed broken relationships. That is the part that normal people can't relate to. These people actually do have messed up priorities and different values but it takes a near death experience for them to re-evaluate things.

I don't know if it was the same year but the one that got me was the guy who died on Everest who was still able to call and talk to his wife about it as he was dying.

What do you say. Really. I do not understand these people. They're not even pioneers. Thousands have done it.

That was the very experienced guide, who stayed too late at the summit to help the sickly guy make it & take selfies; the guide had the sat phone.

The wiki page on the accident is pretty comprehensive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Mount_Everest_disaster

A lot of judgment around what happened. Jon Krakauer's book also does a good job of the psychology of people who do extreme sports and where they draw the lines around risk.

Movie is good too.

My middle schooler watched it at home after having to read some One Wrong Step book, by Jennifer Nielsen on a summit. She said it by would anyone care to do that. That was before she knew it took 2 mos time, $70k plus 1-2 years of training.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I doubt the survivors will offer any details that provide closure. They knew the risk, they still headed out and they died. End of story.

But maybe the guides assured them it was safe and they relied on them.

I doubt the guides said that. Most likely it was - we have to get home so let's take path B because the risk is lower not that there was no risk. The survivors might feel pressure to also change the narrative so the families can sue. So I don't know that I'd trust what they say either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Things I don't do as a mom, ski, take helicoper rides, white water rafting or go bungie jumping.

I was supposed to take a helicopter ride over the Grand Canyon with my family. I held one son back and let the others go. I also skipped on white water rafting because my son was just at the weight limit. They said if he fell out we could not rescue him. Nope.

There are great books about disasters and safety in the Grand Canyon and other sites. This is a fascinating book "Over the Edge: Death in the Grand Canyon" by Tom Myers and Michael Ghiglieri. No go on the flights over the Grand Canyon. I'd read this before I go.

I once went parasailing with my 4 yr old daughter. She slid (but remained) in the bucket seat and her one leg was dangling.. Yes, she was strapped. Yes she was next to me...but if the rope would have snapped we would have drowned or become shark food. Nope. Not messing with the sea. Not messing with all the crazed sharks filled with dumped fentanyl and pollutant.

The recent story of the 14 yr old Australian boy who swam in choppy sea for hours to get help for his mom and two siblings is just a miracle. Most people would have drowned or died. No one from my family could have swam for more than 20 minutes.

I can not believe there are not age limits for parasailing. No 4 year old should be parasailing. What were you thinking?

Same for idiots who don’t know how to scuba dive (ie not PADI) or how any of the equipment works, yet will pay up in some emerging market to scuba dive with bad equipment… to say they went scuba diving.
Of course some dude in Turkey will take your money and have you dive over some rocks with a regulator full of sand. Whatever! Sign here.
Nope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nature is harsh. You can prepare and have all the experience and training and equipment in the world but when it becomes man against natural forces - be it fire, water, cold, snow - nature is stronger.

But there is also an incredible amount of reward for spending time in nature and reaping the benefits of the beauty and adventure. Is there a risk - of course. But life has risk and you only live one life. We can all die tomorrow. For those of us who aren't risk adverse, you accept the risk of nature and adventure just like you do every time you get in your car.

This last bit is utter hogwash a bunch of you are regurgitating in one form or another. This wasn't a time anyone was traipsing about enjoying nature.

They chose to go out in terrible conditions when they shouldn't. They may have been worried if they didn't have enough food. Either they were arrogant or they were desperate. The facts are what most of us want to know.

+ 1 million

In the end, their judgement and decision turned out to be horrible for them. I am not arguing that. But people do make similar bad judgement call and nothing terrible happens to them. They were not making a terrible moral decision that would kill other people - like waging war on others. They took a risk with their own life and maybe 9 out of 10 times nothing bad would have happened to them. Yes, bad lapse of judgement, bad luck, bad decision....

But, they did not deserve to die for this decision, their family did not deserve to lose them and we can still mourn for their senseless death. It is still extremely tragic and it is heartbreaking to hear. No one can argue with that.

No one said they deserved to die. This is disingenuous just intended to create arguments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I doubt the survivors will offer any details that provide closure. They knew the risk, they still headed out and they died. End of story.

But maybe the guides assured them it was safe and they relied on them.

I doubt the guides said that. Most likely it was - we have to get home so let's take path B because the risk is lower not that there was no risk. The survivors might feel pressure to also change the narrative so the families can sue. So I don't know that I'd trust what they say either.

Right so they relied on guides who should have known better or taken the risk more seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Things I don't do as a mom, ski, take helicoper rides, white water rafting or go bungie jumping.

I was supposed to take a helicopter ride over the Grand Canyon with my family. I held one son back and let the others go. I also skipped on white water rafting because my son was just at the weight limit. They said if he fell out we could not rescue him. Nope.

There are great books about disasters and safety in the Grand Canyon and other sites. This is a fascinating book "Over the Edge: Death in the Grand Canyon" by Tom Myers and Michael Ghiglieri. No go on the flights over the Grand Canyon. I'd read this before I go.

I once went parasailing with my 4 yr old daughter. She slid (but remained) in the bucket seat and her one leg was dangling.. Yes, she was strapped. Yes she was next to me...but if the rope would have snapped we would have drowned or become shark food. Nope. Not messing with the sea. Not messing with all the crazed sharks filled with dumped fentanyl and pollutant.

The recent story of the 14 yr old Australian boy who swam in choppy sea for hours to get help for his mom and two siblings is just a miracle. Most people would have drowned or died. No one from my family could have swam for more than 20 minutes.

I can not believe there are not age limits for parasailing. No 4 year old should be parasailing. What were you thinking?

Same for idiots who don’t know how to scuba dive (ie not PADI) or how any of the equipment works, yet will pay up in some emerging market to scuba dive with bad equipment… to say they went scuba diving.
Of course some dude in Turkey will take your money and have you dive over some rocks with a regulator full of sand. Whatever! Sign here.
Nope.

That is also why I would never put myself or my kid on most carnival rides.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We don’t know the why they decided to hear out from the huts. The survivors will have to tell us.

What appears to be known is
- this was backcountry
- these were experienced skiers
- these were adventure seekers
- they had 4 guides

Sad all around. And no, nobody is excited, thid is not like Camp Mystic.

Is that a lot of guides for the number of clients? I get the message now that they were headed back because it was the end of the rental/lease whatever you call it and not because of worries about running out of provisions. Do the people who run those cabins give the option to stay if there is bad weather?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is tragic.

I'll never be faced with this dilemma, because although I love to ski, backcountry skiing is well beyond my ability level. But, even if I were inclined to do so, stories like this would make me reconsider.

Same but I love watching videos of it. I *wish* I could do it. It looks amazing - like flying. I think it would be addictive.

I'm interested in hearing what drove their decisions. Someone upthread said they ran out of food. Maybe knowing they'd be stuck for days in the cabins with no food drove them to try to get out.

The guides and hut bookings dictate the schedule. You have to move on as the next group arrives at the hut. They are fully booked with a new group heading out every day. The cabins are small and people are paying a lot of money for these trips.

I have done backcountry hikes and there is zero flexibility in the schedule. One time when we couldn't move on due to a crazy rain storm and a flooded river, we had no accommodation as the next group had already moved in. We had to sleep outside and we had equipment but the temperature had dropped much lower than expected and it was really, really cold and wet.

These “huts” had a central stone building where the kitchen and dining facilities were located, so they could have stayed in that building.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is tragic.

I'll never be faced with this dilemma, because although I love to ski, backcountry skiing is well beyond my ability level. But, even if I were inclined to do so, stories like this would make me reconsider.

Same but I love watching videos of it. I *wish* I could do it. It looks amazing - like flying. I think it would be addictive.

I'm interested in hearing what drove their decisions. Someone upthread said they ran out of food. Maybe knowing they'd be stuck for days in the cabins with no food drove them to try to get out.

The guides and hut bookings dictate the schedule. You have to move on as the next group arrives at the hut. They are fully booked with a new group heading out every day. The cabins are small and people are paying a lot of money for these trips.

I have done backcountry hikes and there is zero flexibility in the schedule. One time when we couldn't move on due to a crazy rain storm and a flooded river, we had no accommodation as the next group had already moved in. We had to sleep outside and we had equipment but the temperature had dropped much lower than expected and it was really, really cold and wet.

These “huts” had a central stone building where the kitchen and dining facilities were located, so they could have stayed in that building.

Sounds like this was a financial decision for the guides where they put money ahead of safety. They don't want to cancel or postpone for any reason. If they canceled this trip they would have been on the hook to let them rebook. This will probably bankrupt the company.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I doubt the survivors will offer any details that provide closure. They knew the risk, they still headed out and they died. End of story.

But maybe the guides assured them it was safe and they relied on them.

I doubt the guides said that. Most likely it was - we have to get home so let's take path B because the risk is lower not that there was no risk. The survivors might feel pressure to also change the narrative so the families can sue. So I don't know that I'd trust what they say either.

Right so they relied on guides who should have known better or taken the risk more seriously.

A Stanford grad who skis often in the back country can't read and pay attention to weather reports and think hmmmn sounds dangerous?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is tragic.

I'll never be faced with this dilemma, because although I love to ski, backcountry skiing is well beyond my ability level. But, even if I were inclined to do so, stories like this would make me reconsider.

Same but I love watching videos of it. I *wish* I could do it. It looks amazing - like flying. I think it would be addictive.

I'm interested in hearing what drove their decisions. Someone upthread said they ran out of food. Maybe knowing they'd be stuck for days in the cabins with no food drove them to try to get out.

The guides and hut bookings dictate the schedule. You have to move on as the next group arrives at the hut. They are fully booked with a new group heading out every day. The cabins are small and people are paying a lot of money for these trips.

I have done backcountry hikes and there is zero flexibility in the schedule. One time when we couldn't move on due to a crazy rain storm and a flooded river, we had no accommodation as the next group had already moved in. We had to sleep outside and we had equipment but the temperature had dropped much lower than expected and it was really, really cold and wet.

These “huts” had a central stone building where the kitchen and dining facilities were located, so they could have stayed in that building.

Sounds like this was a financial decision for the guides where they put money ahead of safety. They don't want to cancel or postpone for any reason. If they canceled this trip they would have been on the hook to let them rebook. This will probably bankrupt the company.

It's really difficult to know what drove this decision, but 4 guides did not knowingly go out in these conditions with the assumption death was a high possibility to make a few extra bucks. It will be really good to hear from the surviving guide what their thinking was.