UVA info session today said “most rigorous in ALL 5 core subjects.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know why this is so hard to grasp, or why this needs to be parsed nine ways to Sunday:

1) UVA is a competetive school for which to be admitted.

2) Given 1), the way to make yourself stand out is to have a stellar résumé.

3) The way to have a stellar résumé is to take the most challenging classes your school offers and do well in them.

4) And yes, that may include pursuing a foreign language as far as you can.

That's it, that's the formula.

But why a foreign language, why not take another 5th class as far as you can?

It is not foreign language over another core. It is in addition. Many high schools allow 6 core courses: the kids take the 5 main ones then “double up “ with a second science or second history. There are top10 colleges that expect this and say it in their literature, if it is an option at the high school. Prep schools have over 1/3 of students doing this starting 10th grade. The governors schools and the stem magnets have 6 core courses taken by many students. Foreign language for all 4 yrs of HS is not eliminating the option to double something else.

True, but its difficult if you also take 4 years of say, Choir or Band. Which ALSO look good on college apps. Also makes you look well-rounded and shows dedication to something artsy. In the end, its a bit of a crapshoot.

Every high school I know of in Virginia has 7 class periods. Some have 8 (zero period). The band/choir orchestra students take that all4 yrs and can still take 6 core courses. Sure a lot of students take a study hall but many do not. Same with theater kids. Having an art does not preclude one from taking 6 cores at most schools. The top academic students often do it all. In schools where it is not possible then a choice is made and colleges won’t consider it negatively. However when 6core courses is not only possible but common, and the music/arts kids can also fit in that, then the AO’s will know that it is doable there. The AO’s at UVA and also those at super -elites get to know the high schools in each region. As a PP above posted: they figure out relative rigor and rank easily from the school profile and the counselor letter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what we were told by our private college counselor. There are several “must” APs if your child is in FCPS and is applying to the UVA College of Arts and Sciences:

AP Lang
AP Calc - at least AB
APUSH (and avoid Online APUSH)
AP World Language

+ a science, like AP Bio, AP Chem or AP Physics.

Then add at least two or three more APs of your choice. Avoid DE classes in your core classes. Don’t try to take core classes from the online campus.

OP here. The same admissions officer I mentioned in my post claims that DE is viewed “equally” to AP. Take that how you will.

Maggie walker tells the top kids it is not considered equal unless it is post-AP. Admission results confirm the preference that not only UVA but ivies have strong AP preference. Maybe our DE just is not as good as other schools?

You are wrong. Yale explicitly says on their website that DE, IB and AP are considered equally.

Yale is just saying that generically. For some high schools it could be similar . For many it is not nearly as rigorous. DE is completely fine in schools that do not offer the AP or IB equivalent. Maggie Walker considers AP to be superior. They strongly steer the top kids that way. They know what they are doing. They are the ones writing the counselor letter to colleges: the high school determines relative rigor and makes it clear to colleges what is top. At MGLWS, you’d better have AP calc not DE, and AP chem not DE, etc

OP here. This was my clearest takeaway. That the HS guidance counselor making $75k year has a very outsize influence over the application. So cross your fingers that your kid's counselor thinks their courseload is "most rigorous"!

Yeah, how crazy, the guy who does this for a living, knows the colleges and their process, and knows all the kids (or at least the ones assigned to him) is the one whose opinion the colleges trust most! What idiots they all are!

As you point out, if he made more money then maybe his opinion would be more valuable.

Have you ever even met a public high school guidance counselor? They are basically people who wanted summers off but thought teaching sounded too hard. My DD’s first HS counselor told her she should quit language at level 3 (after 9th grade) if she wanted a slot to take more science (DD was asking about PE in summer school) This was after DD told her she was looking at top schools. She also told DD she didn’t really need to take Physics at all and that DE USH was viewed “the same” as APUSH. Thankfully the school reshuffled the alphabet assignments and we got a new counselor. Jury is still out on the new one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know why this is so hard to grasp, or why this needs to be parsed nine ways to Sunday:

1) UVA is a competetive school for which to be admitted.

2) Given 1), the way to make yourself stand out is to have a stellar résumé.

3) The way to have a stellar résumé is to take the most challenging classes your school offers and do well in them.

4) And yes, that may include pursuing a foreign language as far as you can.

That's it, that's the formula.

But why a foreign language, why not take another 5th class as far as you can?

It is not foreign language over another core. It is in addition. Many high schools allow 6 core courses: the kids take the 5 main ones then “double up “ with a second science or second history. There are top10 colleges that expect this and say it in their literature, if it is an option at the high school. Prep schools have over 1/3 of students doing this starting 10th grade. The governors schools and the stem magnets have 6 core courses taken by many students. Foreign language for all 4 yrs of HS is not eliminating the option to double something else.

True, but its difficult if you also take 4 years of say, Choir or Band. Which ALSO look good on college apps. Also makes you look well-rounded and shows dedication to something artsy. In the end, its a bit of a crapshoot.

Every high school I know of in Virginia has 7 class periods. Some have 8 (zero period). The band/choir orchestra students take that all4 yrs and can still take 6 core courses. Sure a lot of students take a study hall but many do not. Same with theater kids. Having an art does not preclude one from taking 6 cores at most schools. The top academic students often do it all. In schools where it is not possible then a choice is made and colleges won’t consider it negatively. However when 6core courses is not only possible but common, and the music/arts kids can also fit in that, then the AO’s will know that it is doable there. The AO’s at UVA and also those at super -elites get to know the high schools in each region. As a PP above posted: they figure out relative rigor and rank easily from the school profile and the counselor letter.

Finally, some benefit to going to a mediocre high school where it’s not nearly as hard to be at the top. Based on the kids attending UVA from a year or two above DD from our HS, much if what has been said on this thread is not true, at least at our HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what we were told by our private college counselor. There are several “must” APs if your child is in FCPS and is applying to the UVA College of Arts and Sciences:

AP Lang
AP Calc - at least AB
APUSH (and avoid Online APUSH)
AP World Language

+ a science, like AP Bio, AP Chem or AP Physics.

Then add at least two or three more APs of your choice. Avoid DE classes in your core classes. Don’t try to take core classes from the online campus.

OP here. The same admissions officer I mentioned in my post claims that DE is viewed “equally” to AP. Take that how you will.

Maggie walker tells the top kids it is not considered equal unless it is post-AP. Admission results confirm the preference that not only UVA but ivies have strong AP preference. Maybe our DE just is not as good as other schools?

You are wrong. Yale explicitly says on their website that DE, IB and AP are considered equally.

Yale is just saying that generically. For some high schools it could be similar . For many it is not nearly as rigorous. DE is completely fine in schools that do not offer the AP or IB equivalent. Maggie Walker considers AP to be superior. They strongly steer the top kids that way. They know what they are doing. They are the ones writing the counselor letter to colleges: the high school determines relative rigor and makes it clear to colleges what is top. At MGLWS, you’d better have AP calc not DE, and AP chem not DE, etc

OP here. This was my clearest takeaway. That the HS guidance counselor making $75k year has a very outsize influence over the application. So cross your fingers that your kid's counselor thinks their courseload is "most rigorous"!

Yeah, how crazy, the guy who does this for a living, knows the colleges and their process, and knows all the kids (or at least the ones assigned to him) is the one whose opinion the colleges trust most! What idiots they all are!

As you point out, if he made more money then maybe his opinion would be more valuable.

Have you ever even met a public high school guidance counselor? They are basically people who wanted summers off but thought teaching sounded too hard.

Yes, and the ones at our public HS are anything but as you describe. Your stereotype is both unfair and untrue. In my state you need a specialized masters to be one.

My DD’s first HS counselor told her she should quit language at level 3 (after 9th grade) if she wanted a slot to take more science (DD was asking about PE in summer school) This was after DD told her she was looking at top schools. She also told DD she didn’t really need to take Physics at all and that DE USH was viewed “the same” as APUSH. Thankfully the school reshuffled the alphabet assignments and we got a new counselor. Jury is still out on the new one.

So you got a bad one, that doesn't mean the idea that GC opinion matters so much is a bad idea, it's still the best one. There are also bad doctors, accountants, plumbers, bosses, CEOs, and every other category of professional. The premise that GCs are unqualified as a category is ignorant. And no I am not one nor related to one.

When anyone asks me for college admissions advice the first thing I always say is "work with your GC from the first day of HS if possible and build a relationship with them".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what we were told by our private college counselor. There are several “must” APs if your child is in FCPS and is applying to the UVA College of Arts and Sciences:

AP Lang
AP Calc - at least AB
APUSH (and avoid Online APUSH)
AP World Language

+ a science, like AP Bio, AP Chem or AP Physics.

Then add at least two or three more APs of your choice. Avoid DE classes in your core classes. Don’t try to take core classes from the online campus.

OP here. The same admissions officer I mentioned in my post claims that DE is viewed “equally” to AP. Take that how you will.

Maggie walker tells the top kids it is not considered equal unless it is post-AP. Admission results confirm the preference that not only UVA but ivies have strong AP preference. Maybe our DE just is not as good as other schools?

You are wrong. Yale explicitly says on their website that DE, IB and AP are considered equally.

Yale is just saying that generically. For some high schools it could be similar . For many it is not nearly as rigorous. DE is completely fine in schools that do not offer the AP or IB equivalent. Maggie Walker considers AP to be superior. They strongly steer the top kids that way. They know what they are doing. They are the ones writing the counselor letter to colleges: the high school determines relative rigor and makes it clear to colleges what is top. At MGLWS, you’d better have AP calc not DE, and AP chem not DE, etc

OP here. This was my clearest takeaway. That the HS guidance counselor making $75k year has a very outsize influence over the application. So cross your fingers that your kid's counselor thinks their courseload is "most rigorous"!

Yeah, how crazy, the guy who does this for a living, knows the colleges and their process, and knows all the kids (or at least the ones assigned to him) is the one whose opinion the colleges trust most! What idiots they all are!

As you point out, if he made more money then maybe his opinion would be more valuable.

Have you ever even met a public high school guidance counselor? They are basically people who wanted summers off but thought teaching sounded too hard.

Yes, and the ones at our public HS are anything but as you describe. Your stereotype is both unfair and untrue. In my state you need a specialized masters to be one.

My DD’s first HS counselor told her she should quit language at level 3 (after 9th grade) if she wanted a slot to take more science (DD was asking about PE in summer school) This was after DD told her she was looking at top schools. She also told DD she didn’t really need to take Physics at all and that DE USH was viewed “the same” as APUSH. Thankfully the school reshuffled the alphabet assignments and we got a new counselor. Jury is still out on the new one.

So you got a bad one, that doesn't mean the idea that GC opinion matters so much is a bad idea, it's still the best one. There are also bad doctors, accountants, plumbers, bosses, CEOs, and every other category of professional. The premise that GCs are unqualified as a category is ignorant. And no I am not one nor related to one.

When anyone asks me for college admissions advice the first thing I always say is "work with your GC from the first day of HS if possible and build a relationship with them".

Great advice for the kids. Don’t be that parent, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know why this is so hard to grasp, or why this needs to be parsed nine ways to Sunday:

1) UVA is a competetive school for which to be admitted.

2) Given 1), the way to make yourself stand out is to have a stellar résumé.

3) The way to have a stellar résumé is to take the most challenging classes your school offers and do well in them.

4) And yes, that may include pursuing a foreign language as far as you can.

That's it, that's the formula.

+1

Only thing I would add is to be in top 5% of class, and yes, UVA figures it out even if your school doesn’t rank.

Signed,
Mom to 2 current Hoos and one who recently graduated

That 5% seriously stresses us out. DD is in band and since it's unweighted, it will bring her weighted GPA down and might take her out of the top 5%. She's otherwise a straight A student with APs in all core subject including foreign language. 1500+ SAT. Does she still stand a chance if not top 5%?

Yes, I think so. My recent Hoo graduate was in the exact same position. And the UVA marching band is a fantastic activity to join! My Hoo loved it.

[Anonymous]

The distain for people who are called to work in education in this thread is incredibly sad. School counselors have massive list of responsibilities from mental health to scheduling classes to emergency intervention. Instead of demeaning them for not being expert college counselors, maybe advocate for more resources in the counseling area.

As for putting them down for making $75k, is it any wonder that we can't attract and retain good people in education? We don't pay them and then we make fun of the few that are willing to be underpaid because they feel called do the work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know why this is so hard to grasp, or why this needs to be parsed nine ways to Sunday:

1) UVA is a competetive school for which to be admitted.

2) Given 1), the way to make yourself stand out is to have a stellar résumé.

3) The way to have a stellar résumé is to take the most challenging classes your school offers and do well in them.

4) And yes, that may include pursuing a foreign language as far as you can.

That's it, that's the formula.

+1

Only thing I would add is to be in top 5% of class, and yes, UVA figures it out even if your school doesn’t rank.

Signed,
Mom to 2 current Hoos and one who recently graduated

How exactly does UVA calculate rank? Do you have any proof or are you guessing like everyone else?

UVA admissions is intimately familiar with each of the NOVA high schools and what GPA it takes to be in top 5-10%. Not saying you have to be in top 5% to be admitted but it definitely is a plus. Do I have proof? Mostly just anecdotal based on watching my four DCs and their friends/peers who graduated from 2 different HSs apply over the past few years (so maybe 50-60 kids), as well as what others post here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is taking AP French this year just because UVA wants four years of language in high school. She hates French and had other classes she wanted to take but didn’t want to give up the post of UVA. Very frustrating.

It is frustrating. My daughter stuck with French even though there were other classses she would have much rather taken. It’s dumb that they require kids to waste their time with something so useless, when there are now a million other (rigorous) courses they could choose that would benefit and interest them more.

You’re missing the point which is UVA decides what matters most for their community, not you. If you think their requirements and the subjects they value are useless you should seek a different college that is a better fit.

Yeah, but requiring four years of a FL seems to be universal among all top colleges, not just UVA. And yes, it’s outdated and dumb.

Only 2 years of language required at MIT. That's the easiest path to a solid engineering or comp sci education, for anyone missing the required 5 years for UVA. "MIT doesn't have a strict foreign language requirement for admission, but it does recommend that applicants take at least two years of a foreign language in high school. However, not meeting this recommendation won't necessarily affect your chances of admission."

[Anonymous]

Just another reminder, there were examples posted earlier in this thread of students accepted at UVA without 4 years of foreign lang. Broad recommendations are not requirements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is what we were told by our private college counselor. There are several “must” APs if your child is in FCPS and is applying to the UVA College of Arts and Sciences:

AP Lang
AP Calc - at least AB
APUSH (and avoid Online APUSH)
AP World Language

+ a science, like AP Bio, AP Chem or AP Physics.

Then add at least two or three more APs of your choice. Avoid DE classes in your core classes. Don’t try to take core classes from the online campus.

Admissions officers have grown increasingly wary of online courses, particularly AP classes, due to concerns about grade inflation and the potential for academic dishonesty. Many recognize that students often choose online options for easier grades, rather than embracing the rigor of in-person classes.

At schools like the University of Virginia, where the Honor Code is central to the academic culture, there is an even greater emphasis on integrity and personal accountability. As a result, they may be less inclined to admit applicants who seem to have sidestepped more challenging, traditional classroom experiences, as it may raise concerns about their commitment to upholding such values.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is taking AP French this year just because UVA wants four years of language in high school. She hates French and had other classes she wanted to take but didn’t want to give up the post of UVA. Very frustrating.

It is frustrating. My daughter stuck with French even though there were other classses she would have much rather taken. It’s dumb that they require kids to waste their time with something so useless, when there are now a million other (rigorous) courses they could choose that would benefit and interest them more.

You’re missing the point which is UVA decides what matters most for their community, not you. If you think their requirements and the subjects they value are useless you should seek a different college that is a better fit.

Yeah, but requiring four years of a FL seems to be universal among all top colleges, not just UVA. And yes, it’s outdated and dumb.

Only 2 years of language required at MIT. That's the easiest path to a solid engineering or comp sci education, for anyone missing the required 5 years for UVA. "MIT doesn't have a strict foreign language requirement for admission, but it does recommend that applicants take at least two years of a foreign language in high school. However, not meeting this recommendation won't necessarily affect your chances of admission."

Yes, getting into MIT will be breeze. Great alternative if you can’t get into your state flagship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is taking AP French this year just because UVA wants four years of language in high school. She hates French and had other classes she wanted to take but didn’t want to give up the post of UVA. Very frustrating.

It is frustrating. My daughter stuck with French even though there were other classses she would have much rather taken. It’s dumb that they require kids to waste their time with something so useless, when there are now a million other (rigorous) courses they could choose that would benefit and interest them more.

You’re missing the point which is UVA decides what matters most for their community, not you. If you think their requirements and the subjects they value are useless you should seek a different college that is a better fit.

Yeah, but requiring four years of a FL seems to be universal among all top colleges, not just UVA. And yes, it’s outdated and dumb.

Only 2 years of language required at MIT. That's the easiest path to a solid engineering or comp sci education, for anyone missing the required 5 years for UVA. "MIT doesn't have a strict foreign language requirement for admission, but it does recommend that applicants take at least two years of a foreign language in high school. However, not meeting this recommendation won't necessarily affect your chances of admission."

That’s a vague word. I wouldn’t hang my hat on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what we were told by our private college counselor. There are several “must” APs if your child is in FCPS and is applying to the UVA College of Arts and Sciences:

AP Lang
AP Calc - at least AB
APUSH (and avoid Online APUSH)
AP World Language

+ a science, like AP Bio, AP Chem or AP Physics.

Then add at least two or three more APs of your choice. Avoid DE classes in your core classes. Don’t try to take core classes from the online campus.

OP here. The same admissions officer I mentioned in my post claims that DE is viewed “equally” to AP. Take that how you will.

Maggie walker tells the top kids it is not considered equal unless it is post-AP. Admission results confirm the preference that not only UVA but ivies have strong AP preference. Maybe our DE just is not as good as other schools?

You are wrong. Yale explicitly says on their website that DE, IB and AP are considered equally.

Yale is just saying that generically. For some high schools it could be similar . For many it is not nearly as rigorous. DE is completely fine in schools that do not offer the AP or IB equivalent. Maggie Walker considers AP to be superior. They strongly steer the top kids that way. They know what they are doing. They are the ones writing the counselor letter to colleges: the high school determines relative rigor and makes it clear to colleges what is top. At MGLWS, you’d better have AP calc not DE, and AP chem not DE, etc

OP here. This was my clearest takeaway. That the HS guidance counselor making $75k year has a very outsize influence over the application. So cross your fingers that your kid's counselor thinks their courseload is "most rigorous"!

Yeah, how crazy, the guy who does this for a living, knows the colleges and their process, and knows all the kids (or at least the ones assigned to him) is the one whose opinion the colleges trust most! What idiots they all are!

As you point out, if he made more money then maybe his opinion would be more valuable.

Have you ever even met a public high school guidance counselor? They are basically people who wanted summers off but thought teaching sounded too hard.

Yes, and the ones at our public HS are anything but as you describe. Your stereotype is both unfair and untrue. In my state you need a specialized masters to be one.

My DD’s first HS counselor told her she should quit language at level 3 (after 9th grade) if she wanted a slot to take more science (DD was asking about PE in summer school) This was after DD told her she was looking at top schools. She also told DD she didn’t really need to take Physics at all and that DE USH was viewed “the same” as APUSH. Thankfully the school reshuffled the alphabet assignments and we got a new counselor. Jury is still out on the new one.

So you got a bad one, that doesn't mean the idea that GC opinion matters so much is a bad idea, it's still the best one. There are also bad doctors, accountants, plumbers, bosses, CEOs, and every other category of professional. The premise that GCs are unqualified as a category is ignorant. And no I am not one nor related to one.

When anyone asks me for college admissions advice the first thing I always say is "work with your GC from the first day of HS if possible and build a relationship with them".

Great advice for the kids. Don’t be that parent, though.

PP here. Totally agree. But parents will need to advise the kids on how to handle it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what we were told by our private college counselor. There are several “must” APs if your child is in FCPS and is applying to the UVA College of Arts and Sciences:

AP Lang
AP Calc - at least AB
APUSH (and avoid Online APUSH)
AP World Language

+ a science, like AP Bio, AP Chem or AP Physics.

Then add at least two or three more APs of your choice. Avoid DE classes in your core classes. Don’t try to take core classes from the online campus.

Admissions officers have grown increasingly wary of online courses, particularly AP classes, due to concerns about grade inflation and the potential for academic dishonesty. Many recognize that students often choose online options for easier grades, rather than embracing the rigor of in-person classes.

At schools like the University of Virginia, where the Honor Code is central to the academic culture, there is an even greater emphasis on integrity and personal accountability. As a result, they may be less inclined to admit applicants who seem to have sidestepped more challenging, traditional classroom experiences, as it may raise concerns about their commitment to upholding such values.

Sure, some AOs probably don’t love online classes, and cheating can happen. But let’s not act like it’s exclusive to online courses and kids also cheat in regular classrooms.

AOs need to drop this outdated mindset that online AP classes are automatically inferior. After the pandemic, online learning has become a norm, and many students take these classes because their schools can’t offer them. Instead of assuming an online course is a free pass, AOs should focus on what students actually learned ( AP test score) especially if the online teacher wrote a letter of recommendation. Online education is here to stay, and it’s time for AOs to recognize that dismissing it outright is just silly.