TJ Admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ FCPS acknowledges that the same four top middle schools are where advanced STEM talent is nurtured to not just meet the TJ rigor but enroll in advanced courses there.”

DC has been doing great at TJ but still won’t have as much schedule space as others because she “only” started at Math 3 level (Alg 2). She could definitely have skipped a year and done Alg 1 in 6th but not all the centers do that - she would have had to go to the secondary school for that and no clue how transpiration for that would have worked. Not all centers have the same opportunity for the full acceleration spectrum that the “feeder” schools offer.

The majority of TJ students have always started HS with Algebra 2.
They take calculus in their junior year and they take electives in their senior year.
That is very typical.

No they have not. There are not that many kids taking Algebra 2 in MS. I ran the SOL numbers for the last three years. I actually went back and ran the numbers for a 10 year period, 2021 was the first year to have over 200 students take the Algebra 2 SOL in 8th grade. I am not going to hand jam the numbers though.

Algebra 1 in 6th grade:
2021-2022: 22 FCPS students
2022-2023: 31 FCPS Students
2023-2024: 25 FCPS students

Algebra 2 in 8th grade:
2021-2022: 221 FCPS students
2022-2023: 210 FCPS students
2023-2024 201 FCPS students

I would say that the majority of kids at TJ have had Geometry and are taking Algebra 2. Very few kids are offered the path to Algebra 1 in 5th grade and a small group of kids choose to take Geometry in the summer. If you read the various summer threads on Geometry in the summer it is either not that hard for a kid but a time suck or stupidly hard and the kids drop it or expunge the grade. It feels like a 50/50 split but there is going to be a bias based on who chooses to post.

Most of the kids at TJ will take Calculus as Juniors about a quarter will take Calculus as Sophomores.

Yup.

60% of the class of 2024 took geometry in 8th, per FCAG.

34% took algebra 2+.

I think everybody is on the same page.

Then the class of 2025 increase the kids who took 8th grade algebra from 5% to 35%.
Why did they do this?
There was a 1.5% quota at each school that they needed to fill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ FCPS acknowledges that the same four top middle schools are where advanced STEM talent is nurtured to not just meet the TJ rigor but enroll in advanced courses there.”

DC has been doing great at TJ but still won’t have as much schedule space as others because she “only” started at Math 3 level (Alg 2). She could definitely have skipped a year and done Alg 1 in 6th but not all the centers do that - she would have had to go to the secondary school for that and no clue how transpiration for that would have worked. Not all centers have the same opportunity for the full acceleration spectrum that the “feeder” schools offer.

The majority of TJ students have always started HS with Algebra 2.
They take calculus in their junior year and they take electives in their senior year.
That is very typical.

No they have not. There are not that many kids taking Algebra 2 in MS. I ran the SOL numbers for the last three years. I actually went back and ran the numbers for a 10 year period, 2021 was the first year to have over 200 students take the Algebra 2 SOL in 8th grade. I am not going to hand jam the numbers though.

Algebra 1 in 6th grade:
2021-2022: 22 FCPS students
2022-2023: 31 FCPS Students
2023-2024: 25 FCPS students

Algebra 2 in 8th grade:
2021-2022: 221 FCPS students
2022-2023: 210 FCPS students
2023-2024 201 FCPS students

I would say that the majority of kids at TJ have had Geometry and are taking Algebra 2. Very few kids are offered the path to Algebra 1 in 5th grade and a small group of kids choose to take Geometry in the summer. If you read the various summer threads on Geometry in the summer it is either not that hard for a kid but a time suck or stupidly hard and the kids drop it or expunge the grade. It feels like a 50/50 split but there is going to be a bias based on who chooses to post.

Most of the kids at TJ will take Calculus as Juniors about a quarter will take Calculus as Sophomores.

Yup.

60% of the class of 2024 took geometry in 8th, per FCAG.

34% took algebra 2+.

I think everybody is on the same page.

Then the class of 2025 increase the kids who took 8th grade algebra from 5% to 35%.
Why did they do this?
There was a 1.5% quota at each school that they needed to fill.

I have no problem with insuring that kids from every MS in TJs area are accepted at the school. TJ is a public resource that should be available to everyone in the County. Do I think the admin criteria can be tweaked? Sure.

I think the kids should have completed Geometry in 8th grade to be able to apply. Every MS has kids taking Geometry so I see that as a reasonable threshold.

I think there should be points awarded for completing classes beyond Geometry, similar to the points awarded for IEPs and FARMs status.

I don’t think that the Q test should be used. I don’t think we should be using something that is easily gamed and provides a significant bump to families that can pay for enrichment.

I think that there could be points awarded to kids who participate in school sponsored math and science activities, like Math Counts and Science Olympiad. Those can be available at every school and show a level of interest in math and science that is beyond the class requirements.

I don’t think after school activities should be included in the application, TJ admissions points should be based on what is available or could be available at every MS in FCPS.

I do think that kids should be ranked based on the MS that they are attending, which is what they are doing now, on not what their base MS could have been. If you want to be the big fish in the small pond and increase your chances of attending TJ, attend your base school. If nyou are going to decide to take a Center spot then that is who you compete against.

I think you can tweak the admissions criteria as they stand to strengthen the candidates enter TJ while maintaining open access for every MS. I have no problem with the geographic distribution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ FCPS acknowledges that the same four top middle schools are where advanced STEM talent is nurtured to not just meet the TJ rigor but enroll in advanced courses there.”

DC has been doing great at TJ but still won’t have as much schedule space as others because she “only” started at Math 3 level (Alg 2). She could definitely have skipped a year and done Alg 1 in 6th but not all the centers do that - she would have had to go to the secondary school for that and no clue how transpiration for that would have worked. Not all centers have the same opportunity for the full acceleration spectrum that the “feeder” schools offer.

The majority of TJ students have always started HS with Algebra 2.
They take calculus in their junior year and they take electives in their senior year.
That is very typical.

No they have not. There are not that many kids taking Algebra 2 in MS. I ran the SOL numbers for the last three years. I actually went back and ran the numbers for a 10 year period, 2021 was the first year to have over 200 students take the Algebra 2 SOL in 8th grade. I am not going to hand jam the numbers though.

Algebra 1 in 6th grade:
2021-2022: 22 FCPS students
2022-2023: 31 FCPS Students
2023-2024: 25 FCPS students

Algebra 2 in 8th grade:
2021-2022: 221 FCPS students
2022-2023: 210 FCPS students
2023-2024 201 FCPS students

I would say that the majority of kids at TJ have had Geometry and are taking Algebra 2. Very few kids are offered the path to Algebra 1 in 5th grade and a small group of kids choose to take Geometry in the summer. If you read the various summer threads on Geometry in the summer it is either not that hard for a kid but a time suck or stupidly hard and the kids drop it or expunge the grade. It feels like a 50/50 split but there is going to be a bias based on who chooses to post.

Most of the kids at TJ will take Calculus as Juniors about a quarter will take Calculus as Sophomores.

Yup.

60% of the class of 2024 took geometry in 8th, per FCAG.

34% took algebra 2+.

I think everybody is on the same page.

Then the class of 2025 increase the kids who took 8th grade algebra from 5% to 35%.
Why did they do this?
There was a 1.5% quota at each school that they needed to fill.

They did it to expand access to kids who weren’t on the fast track from 3rd grade.

I think it’s great that more bright kids who took A1 in 8th have the opportunity to grow at TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are prep courses still helpful? I know they used to be really popular, but the change in admissions process supposedly reduced their influence.

My 8th grader says he wants to apply. I'm seeing ads for test prep companies, and not sure if they'd actually be useful or not?

Well yes and no.

If your kid goes into the test cold, they will not have a good feel for the timing and pace. A LOT of kids do not finish the test in the allotted time. Finishing the test improves your chances vs having a great answer on the first essay and then rushing through everything else. So yes practicing probably helps but it's not like you should practice a bunch of math so you can do the better on the math sections, there is one math essay and it is very easy.

Some of the posters are still bitter since they can't buy access to the question banks the prep centers had compiled to give wealthy families an advantage and will just post half-truths. This is probably the best answer you're going to get.

Well, at least you are no longer lying about students buying the actual test answers.

Before Quant Q was implemented to "eliminate" test prep, anyone with $20 and an amazon account could get access to prior test questions of the SHSAT. Without an actual test, you basically get a modified cross section of the applicant pool.

S/o- I looked SHSAR up bc didn’t know what was and a rabbit hole later find one of the specialized NY schools can apply to if take that test is film and tv HS- too cool (at least on paper)!
https://myschools.nyc/en/schools/high-school/?dbn=30Q301

The Quant-Q days were the best! Back then if you could afford elite prep and your kid had a triple digit IQ they were virtually guaranteed a TJ seat. The question banks were soooo good. Many kids claimed to have seen the same questions before hand. In fact, one prep center alone accounted for over 30% of TJ's incoming class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ FCPS acknowledges that the same four top middle schools are where advanced STEM talent is nurtured to not just meet the TJ rigor but enroll in advanced courses there.”

DC has been doing great at TJ but still won’t have as much schedule space as others because she “only” started at Math 3 level (Alg 2). She could definitely have skipped a year and done Alg 1 in 6th but not all the centers do that - she would have had to go to the secondary school for that and no clue how transpiration for that would have worked. Not all centers have the same opportunity for the full acceleration spectrum that the “feeder” schools offer.

The majority of TJ students have always started HS with Algebra 2.
They take calculus in their junior year and they take electives in their senior year.
That is very typical.

No they have not. There are not that many kids taking Algebra 2 in MS. I ran the SOL numbers for the last three years. I actually went back and ran the numbers for a 10 year period, 2021 was the first year to have over 200 students take the Algebra 2 SOL in 8th grade. I am not going to hand jam the numbers though.

Algebra 1 in 6th grade:
2021-2022: 22 FCPS students
2022-2023: 31 FCPS Students
2023-2024: 25 FCPS students

Algebra 2 in 8th grade:
2021-2022: 221 FCPS students
2022-2023: 210 FCPS students
2023-2024 201 FCPS students

I would say that the majority of kids at TJ have had Geometry and are taking Algebra 2. Very few kids are offered the path to Algebra 1 in 5th grade and a small group of kids choose to take Geometry in the summer. If you read the various summer threads on Geometry in the summer it is either not that hard for a kid but a time suck or stupidly hard and the kids drop it or expunge the grade. It feels like a 50/50 split but there is going to be a bias based on who chooses to post.

Most of the kids at TJ will take Calculus as Juniors about a quarter will take Calculus as Sophomores.

Yup.

60% of the class of 2024 took geometry in 8th, per FCAG.

34% took algebra 2+.

I think everybody is on the same page.

Then the class of 2025 increase the kids who took 8th grade algebra from 5% to 35%.
Why did they do this?
There was a 1.5% quota at each school that they needed to fill.

They did it to expand access to kids who weren’t on the fast track from 3rd grade.

I think it’s great that more bright kids who took A1 in 8th have the opportunity to grow at TJ.

You mean you aren't for setting a child's future in stone because of events that happened at age 7 or 8?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ FCPS acknowledges that the same four top middle schools are where advanced STEM talent is nurtured to not just meet the TJ rigor but enroll in advanced courses there.”

DC has been doing great at TJ but still won’t have as much schedule space as others because she “only” started at Math 3 level (Alg 2). She could definitely have skipped a year and done Alg 1 in 6th but not all the centers do that - she would have had to go to the secondary school for that and no clue how transpiration for that would have worked. Not all centers have the same opportunity for the full acceleration spectrum that the “feeder” schools offer.

The majority of TJ students have always started HS with Algebra 2.
They take calculus in their junior year and they take electives in their senior year.
That is very typical.

No they have not. There are not that many kids taking Algebra 2 in MS. I ran the SOL numbers for the last three years. I actually went back and ran the numbers for a 10 year period, 2021 was the first year to have over 200 students take the Algebra 2 SOL in 8th grade. I am not going to hand jam the numbers though.

Algebra 1 in 6th grade:
2021-2022: 22 FCPS students
2022-2023: 31 FCPS Students
2023-2024: 25 FCPS students

Algebra 2 in 8th grade:
2021-2022: 221 FCPS students
2022-2023: 210 FCPS students
2023-2024 201 FCPS students

I would say that the majority of kids at TJ have had Geometry and are taking Algebra 2. Very few kids are offered the path to Algebra 1 in 5th grade and a small group of kids choose to take Geometry in the summer. If you read the various summer threads on Geometry in the summer it is either not that hard for a kid but a time suck or stupidly hard and the kids drop it or expunge the grade. It feels like a 50/50 split but there is going to be a bias based on who chooses to post.

Most of the kids at TJ will take Calculus as Juniors about a quarter will take Calculus as Sophomores.

Yup.

60% of the class of 2024 took geometry in 8th, per FCAG.

34% took algebra 2+.

I think everybody is on the same page.

Then the class of 2025 increase the kids who took 8th grade algebra from 5% to 35%.
Why did they do this?
There was a 1.5% quota at each school that they needed to fill.

They did it to expand access to kids who weren’t on the fast track from 3rd grade.

I think it’s great that more bright kids who took A1 in 8th have the opportunity to grow at TJ.

It's incorrect that you need to be on the fast track from 3rd grade to qualify for Algebra in 7th. My kid's gen ed advanced math class at a Title I school had kids jump up to the advanced math track every year. Even as late as 6th grade, there were still kids who jumped up to advanced math from regular math the previous year. Any kid who does well on the SOL from the previous year, does well on the beginning of year tests, and has the recommendation of the previous teacher can jump up to the higher math track.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ FCPS acknowledges that the same four top middle schools are where advanced STEM talent is nurtured to not just meet the TJ rigor but enroll in advanced courses there.”

DC has been doing great at TJ but still won’t have as much schedule space as others because she “only” started at Math 3 level (Alg 2). She could definitely have skipped a year and done Alg 1 in 6th but not all the centers do that - she would have had to go to the secondary school for that and no clue how transpiration for that would have worked. Not all centers have the same opportunity for the full acceleration spectrum that the “feeder” schools offer.

The majority of TJ students have always started HS with Algebra 2.
They take calculus in their junior year and they take electives in their senior year.
That is very typical.

No they have not. There are not that many kids taking Algebra 2 in MS. I ran the SOL numbers for the last three years. I actually went back and ran the numbers for a 10 year period, 2021 was the first year to have over 200 students take the Algebra 2 SOL in 8th grade. I am not going to hand jam the numbers though.

Algebra 1 in 6th grade:
2021-2022: 22 FCPS students
2022-2023: 31 FCPS Students
2023-2024: 25 FCPS students

Algebra 2 in 8th grade:
2021-2022: 221 FCPS students
2022-2023: 210 FCPS students
2023-2024 201 FCPS students

I would say that the majority of kids at TJ have had Geometry and are taking Algebra 2. Very few kids are offered the path to Algebra 1 in 5th grade and a small group of kids choose to take Geometry in the summer. If you read the various summer threads on Geometry in the summer it is either not that hard for a kid but a time suck or stupidly hard and the kids drop it or expunge the grade. It feels like a 50/50 split but there is going to be a bias based on who chooses to post.

Most of the kids at TJ will take Calculus as Juniors about a quarter will take Calculus as Sophomores.

Yup.

60% of the class of 2024 took geometry in 8th, per FCAG.

34% took algebra 2+.

I think everybody is on the same page.

Then the class of 2025 increase the kids who took 8th grade algebra from 5% to 35%.
Why did they do this?
There was a 1.5% quota at each school that they needed to fill.

They did it to expand access to kids who weren’t on the fast track from 3rd grade.

I think it’s great that more bright kids who took A1 in 8th have the opportunity to grow at TJ.

It's incorrect that you need to be on the fast track from 3rd grade to qualify for Algebra in 7th. My kid's gen ed advanced math class at a Title I school had kids jump up to the advanced math track every year. Even as late as 6th grade, there were still kids who jumped up to advanced math from regular math the previous year. Any kid who does well on the SOL from the previous year, does well on the beginning of year tests, and has the recommendation of the previous teacher can jump up to the higher math track.

Not every parent wants to rush their kids through the basics. One year of acceleration is plenty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ FCPS acknowledges that the same four top middle schools are where advanced STEM talent is nurtured to not just meet the TJ rigor but enroll in advanced courses there.”

DC has been doing great at TJ but still won’t have as much schedule space as others because she “only” started at Math 3 level (Alg 2). She could definitely have skipped a year and done Alg 1 in 6th but not all the centers do that - she would have had to go to the secondary school for that and no clue how transpiration for that would have worked. Not all centers have the same opportunity for the full acceleration spectrum that the “feeder” schools offer.

The majority of TJ students have always started HS with Algebra 2.
They take calculus in their junior year and they take electives in their senior year.
That is very typical.

No they have not. There are not that many kids taking Algebra 2 in MS. I ran the SOL numbers for the last three years. I actually went back and ran the numbers for a 10 year period, 2021 was the first year to have over 200 students take the Algebra 2 SOL in 8th grade. I am not going to hand jam the numbers though.

Algebra 1 in 6th grade:
2021-2022: 22 FCPS students
2022-2023: 31 FCPS Students
2023-2024: 25 FCPS students

Algebra 2 in 8th grade:
2021-2022: 221 FCPS students
2022-2023: 210 FCPS students
2023-2024 201 FCPS students

I would say that the majority of kids at TJ have had Geometry and are taking Algebra 2. Very few kids are offered the path to Algebra 1 in 5th grade and a small group of kids choose to take Geometry in the summer. If you read the various summer threads on Geometry in the summer it is either not that hard for a kid but a time suck or stupidly hard and the kids drop it or expunge the grade. It feels like a 50/50 split but there is going to be a bias based on who chooses to post.

Most of the kids at TJ will take Calculus as Juniors about a quarter will take Calculus as Sophomores.

Yup.

60% of the class of 2024 took geometry in 8th, per FCAG.

34% took algebra 2+.

I think everybody is on the same page.

Then the class of 2025 increase the kids who took 8th grade algebra from 5% to 35%.
Why did they do this?
There was a 1.5% quota at each school that they needed to fill.

I have no problem with insuring that kids from every MS in TJs area are accepted at the school. TJ is a public resource that should be available to everyone in the County. Do I think the admin criteria can be tweaked? Sure.

It's always been available to every kid in the county. They just had to earn it.
Just like UVA in state tuition is available to every kid in the state if they can earn it.

I think the kids should have completed Geometry in 8th grade to be able to apply. Every MS has kids taking Geometry so I see that as a reasonable threshold.

What makes your arbitrary cutoff for admissions any better than theirs?
TJ has always taken some 8th grade algebra students and back when there was a merit filter, this did not cause a problem.
The problem isn't their last level of math, it is their math ability.
Meeting some arbitrary threshhold and then selecting almost randomly without a merit filter doesn't cut it.
One of the most glaring instances of student under-performance was the class of 2025 kids who took algebra 2 in 8th grade.
The frikn math department blasted out an email to the entire cohort saying how much worse they were than previous cohort, they said they were the worst they'd ever seen.

I think there should be points awarded for completing classes beyond Geometry, similar to the points awarded for IEPs and FARMs status.

I don’t think that the Q test should be used. I don’t think we should be using something that is easily gamed and provides a significant bump to families that can pay for enrichment.

Standardized tests cannot be easily gamed.
Anyone telling you that is either lying or doesn't know what they are talking about.
The best tests are the ones that are used widely that there really isn't much of an advantage to having money.
The SHSAT is widely used so pretty much anyone with $20 can get a test prep book that is every bit as good as any of the high priced prep courses.*
What the high priced prep course provide is external motivation, they don't have some secret techniques that Barron's doesn't know about.
In fact places like princeton review and kaplan sell test prep books.
So the extra hurdle that poor kids have is they have to be more motivated because their parents aren't driving them to a class every week.

*Obscure tests like Quant Q are perhaps the worst type of test to use because their obscurity means that there really is less accessible knowledge about test question types and test format that was only available to kids at places like curie for a year until the information became more widely distributed.

I think that there could be points awarded to kids who participate in school sponsored math and science activities, like Math Counts and Science Olympiad. Those can be available at every school and show a level of interest in math and science that is beyond the class requirements.

You think science olympiad and math counts exists at every school?
Every additional level of complexity and nuance you add to the admissions process favors kids with parents that know wtf is going on.
An affluent family is going to know these things and will have the resources to let their kid dedicate time to science olympiad and math counts

I understand you are trying to achieve you might consider a good result or end goal but it's more important to have a good process and then determine why your good process isn't giving you the result you want.

I don’t think after school activities should be included in the application, TJ admissions points should be based on what is available or could be available at every MS in FCPS.

I do think that kids should be ranked based on the MS that they are attending, which is what they are doing now, on not what their base MS could have been. If you want to be the big fish in the small pond and increase your chances of attending TJ, attend your base school. If nyou are going to decide to take a Center spot then that is who you compete against.

So you want to punish kids for going to a center school?

You know that the poor neighborhoods have center schools too, right?
Sandburg (50% FARM), Glasgow (60% FARM) Hughes (45% FARM) Jackson (55% FARM) Twain (34% FARM) Katherine Johnson (38% FARM)
If you want 8th grade algebra 2, you might have to go to a school that is not your base school.

I think you can tweak the admissions criteria as they stand to strengthen the candidates enter TJ while maintaining open access for every MS. I have no problem with the geographic distribution.

Noone has a problem with geographic distribution if that's the way the talent presents itself. But you seem to be bending over backwards to achieve geographic distribution without much thought to the talent distribution.

Once again I would exhort you to look at the science high school sin NYC. You take one test to determine entry and half the kids there are on free/reduced lunch.
The reason people don't like the results is because the students are overwhelmingly asian kids, they are mostly poor asian kids but they are asian kids nonetheless.
The poverty level of asians in NYC is higher than the poverty level of blacks in NYC, this has been true for a long long time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ FCPS acknowledges that the same four top middle schools are where advanced STEM talent is nurtured to not just meet the TJ rigor but enroll in advanced courses there.”

DC has been doing great at TJ but still won’t have as much schedule space as others because she “only” started at Math 3 level (Alg 2). She could definitely have skipped a year and done Alg 1 in 6th but not all the centers do that - she would have had to go to the secondary school for that and no clue how transpiration for that would have worked. Not all centers have the same opportunity for the full acceleration spectrum that the “feeder” schools offer.

The majority of TJ students have always started HS with Algebra 2.
They take calculus in their junior year and they take electives in their senior year.
That is very typical.

No they have not. There are not that many kids taking Algebra 2 in MS. I ran the SOL numbers for the last three years. I actually went back and ran the numbers for a 10 year period, 2021 was the first year to have over 200 students take the Algebra 2 SOL in 8th grade. I am not going to hand jam the numbers though.

Algebra 1 in 6th grade:
2021-2022: 22 FCPS students
2022-2023: 31 FCPS Students
2023-2024: 25 FCPS students

Algebra 2 in 8th grade:
2021-2022: 221 FCPS students
2022-2023: 210 FCPS students
2023-2024 201 FCPS students

I would say that the majority of kids at TJ have had Geometry and are taking Algebra 2. Very few kids are offered the path to Algebra 1 in 5th grade and a small group of kids choose to take Geometry in the summer. If you read the various summer threads on Geometry in the summer it is either not that hard for a kid but a time suck or stupidly hard and the kids drop it or expunge the grade. It feels like a 50/50 split but there is going to be a bias based on who chooses to post.

Most of the kids at TJ will take Calculus as Juniors about a quarter will take Calculus as Sophomores.

Yup.

60% of the class of 2024 took geometry in 8th, per FCAG.

34% took algebra 2+.

I think everybody is on the same page.

Then the class of 2025 increase the kids who took 8th grade algebra from 5% to 35%.
Why did they do this?
There was a 1.5% quota at each school that they needed to fill.

They did it to expand access to kids who weren’t on the fast track from 3rd grade.

I think it’s great that more bright kids who took A1 in 8th have the opportunity to grow at TJ.

TJ has always taken algebra 1 kids. Just not a lot because most kids that were good at math were taking at least geometry in 8th grade.
There is not a big universe of really smart kids taking algebra 1 in 8th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ MathCounts, AMC, Olympiads, ”

And those also aren’t offered everywhere. We aren’t in a “bad” pyramid either. Just a middle of the road one for FCPS.

Mathcounts allows students to sign up as non school competitors if their school isn't competing.
AMCs are offered by Fairfax math circle, FCAG, AoPS, and a number of other places.
Any motivated kid should be able to participate in both of these, even if it's not offered by their school.

But what if they can’t participate because they have to take care of their younger brother because both parents work?

If they're so overburdened with childcare or other responsibilities that they cannot even escape for a single day for an academic competition, how on earth are they going to have the time to be successful TJ students? TJ is a huge time sink, even for the kids who are minimally participating in all that TJ has to offer.

DP. That is for them to figure out, not for you to pretend concern over.

The idea that kids who have adversity to deal with should not have access to elite educational opportunities because they would take a different approach than you would is gross.

You do a disservice to people who are on your side when you make comments like this - making them appear uncaring and out of touch with reality.

I agree. We should get rid of these holistic criteria that only serve to exclude poorer kids.

This is where testing comes in.
You don't need expensive time consuming extracurriculars to paint a holistic picture. Just be smart.
Stuyvesant uses a single test and half the kids there are on free or reduced lunch.
Some FARM kid has good test scores, let them in, they will be able to catch up.
Their poverty is their extracurricular.
Being poor should count for as much as anything that money can buy.

Stuyvesant's catchment area is mostly kids on free or reduced lunch. It doesn't come as a surprise that the school has a significant composition of those students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are prep courses still helpful? I know they used to be really popular, but the change in admissions process supposedly reduced their influence.

My 8th grader says he wants to apply. I'm seeing ads for test prep companies, and not sure if they'd actually be useful or not?

Well yes and no.

If your kid goes into the test cold, they will not have a good feel for the timing and pace. A LOT of kids do not finish the test in the allotted time. Finishing the test improves your chances vs having a great answer on the first essay and then rushing through everything else. So yes practicing probably helps but it's not like you should practice a bunch of math so you can do the better on the math sections, there is one math essay and it is very easy.

Some of the posters are still bitter since they can't buy access to the question banks the prep centers had compiled to give wealthy families an advantage and will just post half-truths. This is probably the best answer you're going to get.

Well, at least you are no longer lying about students buying the actual test answers.

Before Quant Q was implemented to "eliminate" test prep, anyone with $20 and an amazon account could get access to prior test questions of the SHSAT. Without an actual test, you basically get a modified cross section of the applicant pool.

S/o- I looked SHSAR up bc didn’t know what was and a rabbit hole later find one of the specialized NY schools can apply to if take that test is film and tv HS- too cool (at least on paper)!
https://myschools.nyc/en/schools/high-school/?dbn=30Q301

The Quant-Q days were the best! Back then if you could afford elite prep and your kid had a triple digit IQ they were virtually guaranteed a TJ seat. The question banks were soooo good. Many kids claimed to have seen the same questions before hand. In fact, one prep center alone accounted for over 30% of TJ's incoming class.

Quant Q was horrible. The SHSAT was perfectly fine except they didn't like all the asians that were doing well on the exam and they effectively chalked it up to cheating. This is the Donald Trump's rationale for why things don't happen the way he wants.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:“ MathCounts, AMC, Olympiads, ”

And those also aren’t offered everywhere. We aren’t in a “bad” pyramid either. Just a middle of the road one for FCPS.

Mathcounts allows students to sign up as non school competitors if their school isn't competing.
AMCs are offered by Fairfax math circle, FCAG, AoPS, and a number of other places.
Any motivated kid should be able to participate in both of these, even if it's not offered by their school.

But what if they can’t participate because they have to take care of their younger brother because both parents work?

If they're so overburdened with childcare or other responsibilities that they cannot even escape for a single day for an academic competition, how on earth are they going to have the time to be successful TJ students? TJ is a huge time sink, even for the kids who are minimally participating in all that TJ has to offer.

DP. That is for them to figure out, not for you to pretend concern over.

The idea that kids who have adversity to deal with should not have access to elite educational opportunities because they would take a different approach than you would is gross.

You do a disservice to people who are on your side when you make comments like this - making them appear uncaring and out of touch with reality.

That's not the idea. The idea is that when you eliminate all testing, because you feel that poor kids are incapable of prepping themselves, you eliminate all consideration of extracurricular achievements, because poor kids might be stuck babysitting the siblings, you eliminate consideration of math level, because even though 7th grade Algebra I is offered at every middle school and every single bright FCPS kid should have reasonable access, you feel that poor kids simply can't make it work, you eliminate teacher recommendations, because they might be biased, and you don't even require the kids to take all honors, because poor kids might not opt into them for whatever reason, there isn't much left.

You can either admit a broad spectrum of kids and accept that there will be high attrition at TJ, or you can admit a narrower group of kids and minimize attrition. Neither view is specifically incorrect. It comes down to whether you think it's worse to bar kids from TJ who have obstacles and haven't yet demonstrated that they can rise above those obstacles, or whether you think it's worse to set up a bunch of kids to wash out of TJ. For my part, I'm not a fan of setting kids up for failure or using kids to score political points. I hope all of the kids who are admitted understand what they're getting into and whether they really are prepared for the rigor.

I appreciate your response on some level, although I'm not sure that you really believe that both perspectives are valid.

While I recognize that most people on my side of the conversation disagree with this, I personally believe that teacher recommendations are an absolute necessity to return to the TJ admissions process. They should be similar to scantrons rather than long and narrative-based, and they should ask teachers to compare students against each other within their schools and classes. They should include ratings on grit, determination, academic integrity, contributions to the classroom environment, and an honest evaluation of whether the student is more interested in grades or learning. And they should be able to be completed in 5-10 minutes tops.

And while we're at it, afford each teacher the ability to write in greater depth about at most 3-5 students, whether to encourage admission or to warn about a student whose profile might appear worthy of TJ but who for other reasons (integrity or poor classroom ethic) would be a detriment to the educational environment.

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Anonymous wrote:Does FCPS offer free summer geometry?

But what if a kid has to watch their younger brother and can’t take free summer geometry?

The family has to figure it out.
Frequently this means extended family and friends helping out.

Are you honestly concerned or just trying to make excuses?
Because a lot of poor families make a lot of painful sacrifices to get the same opportunities that affluent families can take for granted and in the end, their kids simply will not get the same opportunities.
We are never going to make access to opportunity perfectly level in one generation but each generation has the ability to improve their position so that they can provide that opportunity to the next generation.

Most of the asian boomers and gen x born here were not wealthy growing up but their children generally have had all the resources necessary to access opportunity.

We see a similar generational improvement among hispanic millenials and gen z that were born here. They were frequently not born into affluent conditions but have the resources so their children can access opportunities.

The stubborn problem is the legacy black community. It is a very hard thing to excise the less helpful parts of your culture without losing the structural integrity of the culture. The culture is changing for black women but doesn't seem to be improving for black men.

Harry Jackson has entered the chat, ladies and gentlemen.

Children who are born into families that are able to and choose to prioritize academic enrichment from an early age already grow up with a cornucopia of otherwise unearned advantages. We should not be in the business of gatekeeping publicly-funded educational advancement opportunities from students with their own internal ambition and work ethic who do not carry those advantages for whatever reason.

It is a good thing that TJ is now a realistic possibility for economically disadvantaged families. It is a good thing that poor, education-focused Asian families are now able to dream about TJ in the same way that their affluent counterparts are able to, and it is beyond question that they could not realistically do so before.

The world is moving too fast. Children should not have to wait until the next generation comes along for their children to have opportunities. Equity is not perfectly achievable but to suggest it's anything other than a worthwhile goal when the resources exist to support it is tantamount to feudalism or casteism.

You may not understand what TJ (and schools like TJ) represents.
TJ is not a prize, it's not a ticket out of poverty.
You are not made smarter or more successful merely by getting into TJ and you are not made smarter by merely graduating from TJ.
Getting into TJ is no more useful to the unqualified student than getting into seal training is for the unqualified candidate, you're just taking up a spot that should go to someone else.

The resources do not exist to support discarding the hierarchy of merit for marxist notions of equity.
Those resources will never exist.
We cannot select poor kids in this way for these sort of spots at a societal level in the hopes that it will somehow even things out.

Poverty is not a permanent condition in this country, not even close.
This isn't caste, this isn't feudalism. You have to be blindingly privileged to think something as stupid as that.
Immigrant wave after immigrant wave achieves the american dream every generation.
Generational poverty today is not society's fault.
If people cannot be arsed to make a better life for their own kids then perhaps their kids will be less shortsighted and make the necessary sacrifices for their own children.
If their children don't do that, then the poverty will continue for another generation.

If you think things are unfair and want more poor kids then eliminate holistic admissions.
Rewarding wealthy mediocrity is how we end up with situations like this: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/YrXXTF6bsAk

The specialized science high schools in NYC are majority FARM students and those three schools have produced 19 nobel laureates and more than its share of turing, fields, and wolf awards.
Admissions are based solely on a single test, the SHSAT, the same test we used to use.
If equity is so important to people like you then why are so many of you so dead set against a method that seems to work better for poor kids than holistic admissions.
Get rid of essays that amount to "what I did during my summer vacation"
Every FARM student that got into the "pool" under the old method should get into TJ but what happened was that the chances of being selected out of the pool was way lower for poorer kids than it was for wealthier kids.

And if after all that, poor kids still don't get in then figure out why that is and address THAT, don't shoehorn unqualified poor kids where they don't belong.

Tell me you have no idea what's actually going on at TJ without telling me you have no idea what's actually going on at TJ. Clown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does FCPS offer free summer geometry?

But what if a kid has to watch their younger brother and can’t take free summer geometry?

The family has to figure it out.
Frequently this means extended family and friends helping out.

Are you honestly concerned or just trying to make excuses?
Because a lot of poor families make a lot of painful sacrifices to get the same opportunities that affluent families can take for granted and in the end, their kids simply will not get the same opportunities.
We are never going to make access to opportunity perfectly level in one generation but each generation has the ability to improve their position so that they can provide that opportunity to the next generation.

Most of the asian boomers and gen x born here were not wealthy growing up but their children generally have had all the resources necessary to access opportunity.

We see a similar generational improvement among hispanic millenials and gen z that were born here. They were frequently not born into affluent conditions but have the resources so their children can access opportunities.

The stubborn problem is the legacy black community. It is a very hard thing to excise the less helpful parts of your culture without losing the structural integrity of the culture. The culture is changing for black women but doesn't seem to be improving for black men.

Harry Jackson has entered the chat, ladies and gentlemen.

Children who are born into families that are able to and choose to prioritize academic enrichment from an early age already grow up with a cornucopia of otherwise unearned advantages. We should not be in the business of gatekeeping publicly-funded educational advancement opportunities from students with their own internal ambition and work ethic who do not carry those advantages for whatever reason.

It is a good thing that TJ is now a realistic possibility for economically disadvantaged families. It is a good thing that poor, education-focused Asian families are now able to dream about TJ in the same way that their affluent counterparts are able to, and it is beyond question that they could not realistically do so before.

The world is moving too fast. Children should not have to wait until the next generation comes along for their children to have opportunities. Equity is not perfectly achievable but to suggest it's anything other than a worthwhile goal when the resources exist to support it is tantamount to feudalism or casteism.

Agree, it's a positive step in the right direction that TJ serves all residents not just a few who attend wealthy feeders like in years past.

Academic ability is not spread evenly across every school.

Nor are spaces at TJ under the new admissions process. Some schools end up with five, and some schools end up with 50.

Academic ability is also not completely concentrated within a few schools, and the AAP process does not perfectly identify academic ability.

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Anonymous wrote:“ FCPS acknowledges that the same four top middle schools are where advanced STEM talent is nurtured to not just meet the TJ rigor but enroll in advanced courses there.”

DC has been doing great at TJ but still won’t have as much schedule space as others because she “only” started at Math 3 level (Alg 2). She could definitely have skipped a year and done Alg 1 in 6th but not all the centers do that - she would have had to go to the secondary school for that and no clue how transpiration for that would have worked. Not all centers have the same opportunity for the full acceleration spectrum that the “feeder” schools offer.

The majority of TJ students have always started HS with Algebra 2.
They take calculus in their junior year and they take electives in their senior year.
That is very typical.

No they have not. There are not that many kids taking Algebra 2 in MS. I ran the SOL numbers for the last three years. I actually went back and ran the numbers for a 10 year period, 2021 was the first year to have over 200 students take the Algebra 2 SOL in 8th grade. I am not going to hand jam the numbers though.

Algebra 1 in 6th grade:
2021-2022: 22 FCPS students
2022-2023: 31 FCPS Students
2023-2024: 25 FCPS students

Algebra 2 in 8th grade:
2021-2022: 221 FCPS students
2022-2023: 210 FCPS students
2023-2024 201 FCPS students

I would say that the majority of kids at TJ have had Geometry and are taking Algebra 2. Very few kids are offered the path to Algebra 1 in 5th grade and a small group of kids choose to take Geometry in the summer. If you read the various summer threads on Geometry in the summer it is either not that hard for a kid but a time suck or stupidly hard and the kids drop it or expunge the grade. It feels like a 50/50 split but there is going to be a bias based on who chooses to post.

Most of the kids at TJ will take Calculus as Juniors about a quarter will take Calculus as Sophomores.

Yup.

60% of the class of 2024 took geometry in 8th, per FCAG.

34% took algebra 2+.

I think everybody is on the same page.

Then the class of 2025 increase the kids who took 8th grade algebra from 5% to 35%.
Why did they do this?
There was a 1.5% quota at each school that they needed to fill.

They did it to expand access to kids who weren’t on the fast track from 3rd grade.

I think it’s great that more bright kids who took A1 in 8th have the opportunity to grow at TJ.

It's incorrect that you need to be on the fast track from 3rd grade to qualify for Algebra in 7th. My kid's gen ed advanced math class at a Title I school had kids jump up to the advanced math track every year. Even as late as 6th grade, there were still kids who jumped up to advanced math from regular math the previous year. Any kid who does well on the SOL from the previous year, does well on the beginning of year tests, and has the recommendation of the previous teacher can jump up to the higher math track.

Not every parent wants to rush their kids through the basics. One year of acceleration is plenty.

I thought Algebra in 7th was one year of acceleration.