Just got yelled at for leaving my kid alone in in the car while I went to the pharmacy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, this thread.

I am curious what the security guard's behavior would have been if OP was a man.

I also used to read in the car at this age while my mom ran errands. She generally gave me a choice. She would not have left the car running so the choice would have been "stay in the uncomfortably hot car and read or come on the boring errand with AC." I usually chose car because I like being warm and love reading.

Some of you are overstating the risk of carjacking. Also isn't the security guard there to prevent carjacking?

I do this sometimes when I need to run in the house to grab something (we live in an apartment building). If I know it will only be a couple minutes, and I can look out the window to check on DC if I need to. DC knows how to get out of the car and come in the building on their own if they needed to.

It's actually good for kids to earn some independence and trust as they get older. It's good parenting to give them opportunities to be alone in public spaces in small doses. In a few years my kid will be in middle school and will be riding a public bus to school on their own. How will they reach the point where that is possible if they are never left alone in public for even a few minutes before the age of 10?

So for all of you folks arguing that OP was fine, how many of you leave your 7 year old in a running car? Sadly I still have to run errands in person on occasion. I have never seen this but I see ton of kids in the store, I think most of you don’t actually live what you are saying.

I think it's fine but I don't do it because I'm concerned about people who don't think it's fine calling the police/CPS/security and I would find that upsetting even if nothing came of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:YES, it is a crime here.

The guard did an excellent job. Good for him.

No, it’s not a “crime”.

What do you call it when something is "against the law" ? Are you trying to be cutesy and call it "non-lawful" or something? Yes, it's a crime.

It’s not a crime.

In Maryland, it is a crime. I don't necessarily agree that it's unsafe at seven, but it is a misdemeanor, so I didn't do it.

No it’s not, unless child is under 4.

https://law.justia.com/codes/maryland/2005/gfl/5-801.html

(a) A person who is charged with the care of a child under the age of 8 years may not allow the child to be locked or confined in a dwelling, building, enclosure, or motor vehicle while the person charged is absent and the dwelling, building, enclosure, or motor vehicle is out of the sight of the person charged unless the person charged provides a reliable person at least 13 years old to remain with the child to protect the child.

(b) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to a fine not exceeding $500 or imprisonment not exceeding 30 days, or both

I've represented people who were charged under this section. It's absolutely a crime, up to age 8.

Crazy. I was a paid baby sitter at 11 in the great state of Maryland.

Do you use an 11 (or even 12 yo) babysitter for your kids today?

Developmentally children who were 11 then are the same as the kids who are 11 now, there are just different expectations. We haven’t changed human development that much, unless you are talking about puberty onset, which has moved younger making this an even sillier argument.

And, no, my mom moved in with us when my Dad died, so we can be cheap and never have to pay a sitter. She gets paid in free housing, utilities, groceries, love and laughter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, this thread.

I am curious what the security guard's behavior would have been if OP was a man.

I also used to read in the car at this age while my mom ran errands. She generally gave me a choice. She would not have left the car running so the choice would have been "stay in the uncomfortably hot car and read or come on the boring errand with AC." I usually chose car because I like being warm and love reading.

Some of you are overstating the risk of carjacking. Also isn't the security guard there to prevent carjacking?

I do this sometimes when I need to run in the house to grab something (we live in an apartment building). If I know it will only be a couple minutes, and I can look out the window to check on DC if I need to. DC knows how to get out of the car and come in the building on their own if they needed to.

It's actually good for kids to earn some independence and trust as they get older. It's good parenting to give them opportunities to be alone in public spaces in small doses. In a few years my kid will be in middle school and will be riding a public bus to school on their own. How will they reach the point where that is possible if they are never left alone in public for even a few minutes before the age of 10?

So for all of you folks arguing that OP was fine, how many of you leave your 7 year old in a running car? Sadly I still have to run errands in person on occasion. I have never seen this but I see ton of kids in the store, I think most of you don’t actually live what you are saying.

The running car thing isn't all the time-- I have done that once or twice if it was really hot out but would otherwise not leave the car running. I'd lock it either way.

And yes-- as a parent if an elementary age kid I have left my kid in the car for a short errand many times. This is normal. There are situations where I wouldn't do it (bad or unfamiliar neighborhood, anyone sketchy-looking nearby, any chance I'd be detained longer than I think) but the situation OP describes is one where I definitely would do it. Safe neighborhood and picking up a prescription I know is ready? And also a situation where it would be easy to go check on my kid if I needed to (say it turned out the scrip wasn't quite ready-- I could just go back to the car until it was).

I really do not get what the big deal is. Some of you seem insanely stressed about carjacking even though this is really not a something that happens outside of cities and a handful of close in suburbs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw this is legal in many states. In California and Pennsylvania you can leave a child over age 6 alone in a car. In VA it's age 4. In Texas and Hawaii you can actually leave even younger kids in the car as long as you are not gone for more than 5 minutes. Some states allow it if there is an older child in the car.

So the blanket reprobation OP is receiving from many of you on this thread is no consistent with the legal landscape or social norms across the country. Ok if OP were in maryland she'd be violating the law (by a few months!). In WA state you can't leave kids in cars alone until age 12 (wow). But obviously in a lot of places in the US it is legal and acceptable to leave a 7 yr old in a car. So it's weird that some of you are acting like this is a horribly negligent behavior when it's pretty much in line with how much of the country thinks about child safety and the maturity level needed to leave a kid in a car alone.

Only 20 states have laws against leaving kids alone in cars and in even many of those states a 7 year old is above the age where it is allowed: https://www.kidsandcars.org/laws/unattended-children-in-vehicle

I will note (I am an attorney who has worked on child abuse and neglect cases) that you could still violate the law if you left a kid alone in a car in a way that put them in obvious danger. But leaving the car running is actually unlikely to be viewed as neglect especially since in this case it was obviously done to keep the kid from getting too hot. I think it would have to be something like leaving the child for a long period of time or in a location where a car would be very likely to be hit (like the shoulder of a highway). I know a judge would also look critically at the reason the child was left. Running into a pharmacy for a few minutes would be seen by most as okay whereas leaving a kid outside a casino to go gamble would not. There are judgment calls here but unless you were in a state with a blanket ban on leaving a 7 yr old in a car (very few states) OP would be legally fine.

Y'all need to chill.

This doesn’t need to rise to the level of CPS case to be a dumb decision.

[Anonymous]

I understand this is illegal now and not advocating doing it, just curious....didn't we all do this as kids? What happened that made the world so much more dangerous?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:If your car got carjacked…… !!!!

How many kids are getting carjacked? In what reality is this a likely outcome?

It's not a likely outcome -- it's not even an unlikely outcome. But people will see one news story about a car with a kid in it being carjacked and assume that this is a thing that is going to happen. They don't pay attention to things like where that carjacking happened or other circumstances nor do they consider the likelihood of this happening on any given day. The truth is that you are more likely to be in a fatal car accident on any day than your car is to be carjacked. But do people stop driving places with their kids in the car. Of course not.

Recently I saw a news story of a terrible tragedy where a bounce house at a minor league baseball game was blown down onto the field and a small child was killed. Absolutely gut wrenching. Literally the next week we were at an event with a bounce house. I had a moment of considering not letting my kid use the bounce house and then I reasoned that this bounce house was not up on a raised platform like the one at the ball game. I looked to see if the bounce house was staked into the ground. I hung out near the bounce house while my kid was in it. But I still let her get in it.

You can't just wrap your kids in bubble wrap until they are 18. You have to learn how to calculate risk and how to mitigate risk. And also what risks are ok -- my kid could get hurt bouncing in a bounce house or riding her bike or goofing off with friends but living a full and meaningful life carries inherent risk so I have to accept that.

The risk to OP's kid was practically nil. An incredibly low risk of a criminal approaching at just that moment and stealing her car. A similarly low risk of someone trying to abduct her kid. A higher risk of a bystander harassing her son or her out of a misguided effort to protect him (which is what happened).

On the other hand the risk of never leaving a kid in a car alone is that they will grow thinking they are incapable of being left alone for any length of time. They will lack skills of resilience and self-reliance. They will no trust themselves and may feel anxious when older when they are expected to do things on their own.

If the only way you can think to teach your children resilience is to leave them alone in a car, you have much bigger problems. Not leaving a kid alone in a car will do nothing to harm them or their sense of self-reliance. What nonsense.

You see this as a one off situation, a kid in a car. Some of us are using this situation as one example of the hyper involved, overly anxious attitude we have generated parenting in this country. It does seep into the kids. If they are never given the freedom to try something on their own without adult supervision, they learn that they shouldn’t take risks.

An infant car seat, designed to protect your child has death and improper use warnings written all over it. This is to protect the company, but it aLso has subtle effects on the parents who do see it (most likely unconsciously) every time they use the seat. Yes is just one more example of the attitude of anxiety and protection parents are indoctrinated into from birth.

Maybe it’s better that people who are so hypersensitive that car seat warning negatively affect them not have children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yikes, this is all really disheartening. Trust me, I am not a “mommy martyr”, and in general I think that a lot of expectations on parents are way too high. But not leaving a young child (or children) alone in a car seems like a no-brainer. It’s disturbing there are posters bragging about doing this. We get it, you’re an irresponsible parent - why is that something you seem proud of? Is it more hassle to bring the kid in with you? Sure. But oh well, that’s going to happen sometimes.

OP’s kid is 7. That means he’s in 2nd grade. If you can’t leave your 2nd grader alone in car for 10 minutes, it’s either because they have profound special needs, or more likely it means that you are absolutely failing as a parent.

And everyone needs to be real - I’m not looking up the dumb@$$ arbitrary laws of whatever state I happen to be in before I use *my own judgement* to determine what I think my child can handle before I pop into a store for a few minutes.

Some of you really need to grow a spine.

Do you leave the engine running? Why?

Yeah, if it’s 100 GD degrees outside I might leave the engine running and ALSO lock the doors. My kid isn’t going to try to drive the car. It’s fine.

If it’s 100 degrees, take your kid into the air conditioned store. Geez.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:If your car got carjacked…… !!!!

Which has happened. A woman left a disabled toddler in the car. Left it running with a key in the car. Someone stole the car with her disabled child in it.

OP's child was not disabled

OP's car was locked

What is your point?

The car was locked? Since when does a locked car keep thieves and carjackers out? You know it’s pretty easy to get in a locked car right? Do you live in some kind of leafy suburb with zero crime?

Why would a carjacker choose to jack a car that is (1) locked and (2) has a 7 year old WITNESS in the back seat?

In every case I've ever heard of where a child was involved in a carjacking, the carjackers were unaware the child was there, the child was very young (which is part of why the carjackers didn't know they were there-- they were small and sleeping or not old enough to talk), and the git rid of the car or got the child out of the car when they realized the child was there because they don't want to get caught kidnapping, which carries much stiffer sentences than carjacking.

So the mere presence of a 7 yr old in a car, by itself, is a deterrent to a car jacking because carjackers don't want anything to do with kids and especially not kids capable of yelling for help or identifying them in a line up.

The fact that the car is ALSO locked is another deterrent-- you think a car jacker is going to break into a car in a parking lot right outside a business with a security guard nearby and a 7 yr old kid in the backseat? Just because the car is on?

Look, carjackers are mostly absolute morons but they are not trying to get rung up for kidnapping kids and they avoid cars that are more trouble than they are worth. This chance if a carjacker doing what you suggest is nil.

-- prosecutor who lives in a neighborhood with a statistically high number of car jackings

You forgot the most important part. Please factor in running vehicle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw this is legal in many states. In California and Pennsylvania you can leave a child over age 6 alone in a car. In VA it's age 4. In Texas and Hawaii you can actually leave even younger kids in the car as long as you are not gone for more than 5 minutes. Some states allow it if there is an older child in the car.

So the blanket reprobation OP is receiving from many of you on this thread is no consistent with the legal landscape or social norms across the country. Ok if OP were in maryland she'd be violating the law (by a few months!). In WA state you can't leave kids in cars alone until age 12 (wow). But obviously in a lot of places in the US it is legal and acceptable to leave a 7 yr old in a car. So it's weird that some of you are acting like this is a horribly negligent behavior when it's pretty much in line with how much of the country thinks about child safety and the maturity level needed to leave a kid in a car alone.

Only 20 states have laws against leaving kids alone in cars and in even many of those states a 7 year old is above the age where it is allowed: https://www.kidsandcars.org/laws/unattended-children-in-vehicle

I will note (I am an attorney who has worked on child abuse and neglect cases) that you could still violate the law if you left a kid alone in a car in a way that put them in obvious danger. But leaving the car running is actually unlikely to be viewed as neglect especially since in this case it was obviously done to keep the kid from getting too hot. I think it would have to be something like leaving the child for a long period of time or in a location where a car would be very likely to be hit (like the shoulder of a highway). I know a judge would also look critically at the reason the child was left. Running into a pharmacy for a few minutes would be seen by most as okay whereas leaving a kid outside a casino to go gamble would not. There are judgment calls here but unless you were in a state with a blanket ban on leaving a 7 yr old in a car (very few states) OP would be legally fine.

Y'all need to chill.

This doesn’t need to rise to the level of CPS case to be a dumb decision.

Actually it does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not so much that bringing a 7 year old with you is that difficult. It's the accumulation of stress and expectations on the parent.

For example, my 7 year old rides a 2 wheeler very well. However, even though she lives in an area where there would be no major streets to cross to get to school, she's not allowed to bike until 3rd grade. So that's another year of school drop off and pick up stress.

The list of those things in the US gigantic and ever growing it seems.

You chose this house and school. Stop acting like these decisions were thrust upon you.

[Anonymous]

In a normal place this may have been fine. I would never do that in DC or any close in suburb. Carjackings are out of control in DC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:It's against the law where I am but I do it occasionally. My toddler was sick, fell asleep in the car, older siblings had an outdoor swim lesson. I double parked where I shouldn't have and kept checking on him for drop off/pick up. Sue me!

So you illegally parked and illegally left your child in the car? Wow parent of the year here

Should I have blown off the last swim lesson where I would have found out if they passed the level or should I have drug the sick toddler out of the car?

You seem awfully proud of what you did. Hope the yelling made your day. You deserved it.

I'm not OP. Nothing happened.

Now, would you please answer the question?

As if you couldn’t make up a swim lesson. Dumb ass.

It was the last one of the session. Dumb ass.

So were you signing up for the nest session? Because they could have evaluated then if not then who cares if he goes from jellyfish to crab?

He took the same level 3x. I would not want to sign him up a 4th time unless he failed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's against the law where I am but I do it occasionally. My toddler was sick, fell asleep in the car, older siblings had an outdoor swim lesson. I double parked where I shouldn't have and kept checking on him for drop off/pick up. Sue me!

So you illegally parked and illegally left your child in the car? Wow parent of the year here

Should I have blown off the last swim lesson where I would have found out if they passed the level or should I have drug the sick toddler out of the car?

You seem awfully proud of what you did. Hope the yelling made your day. You deserved it.

I'm not OP. Nothing happened.

Now, would you please answer the question?

As if you couldn’t make up a swim lesson. Dumb ass.

It was the last one of the session. Dumb ass.

So were you signing up for the nest session? Because they could have evaluated then if not then who cares if he goes from jellyfish to crab?

He took the same level 3x. I would not want to sign him up a 4th time unless he failed.

Wow so this was a serious thing. His whole future depended on it. I can see how this was worth the risk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parenting standards have changed so much. In the 80s nobody would question a 7 year old left in the car. Now we do. I won't be surprised when there are fewer babies born as the laws and requirements become even stricter for the next generation.

Already happened at a statistically measurable rate with child careseat laws. More kids were not born by far than were saved from car accidents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not so much that bringing a 7 year old with you is that difficult. It's the accumulation of stress and expectations on the parent.

For example, my 7 year old rides a 2 wheeler very well. However, even though she lives in an area where there would be no major streets to cross to get to school, she's not allowed to bike until 3rd grade. So that's another year of school drop off and pick up stress.

The list of those things in the US gigantic and ever growing it seems.

You chose this house and school. Stop acting like these decisions were thrust upon you.

Not PP but please shut up. You have no idea the limitations imposed on his/her household.