Just got yelled at for leaving my kid alone in in the car while I went to the pharmacy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, this thread.

I am curious what the security guard's behavior would have been if OP was a man.

I also used to read in the car at this age while my mom ran errands. She generally gave me a choice. She would not have left the car running so the choice would have been "stay in the uncomfortably hot car and read or come on the boring errand with AC." I usually chose car because I like being warm and love reading.

Some of you are overstating the risk of carjacking. Also isn't the security guard there to prevent carjacking?

I do this sometimes when I need to run in the house to grab something (we live in an apartment building). If I know it will only be a couple minutes, and I can look out the window to check on DC if I need to. DC knows how to get out of the car and come in the building on their own if they needed to.

It's actually good for kids to earn some independence and trust as they get older. It's good parenting to give them opportunities to be alone in public spaces in small doses. In a few years my kid will be in middle school and will be riding a public bus to school on their own. How will they reach the point where that is possible if they are never left alone in public for even a few minutes before the age of 10?

“She would not have left the car running…”

OP left the car running. OP created an unnecessary risk to her child and others.

OP is an idiot.

PP here. Agree I wouldn't leave the car running.

But if OP had turned the car off and cracked windows people would be yelling that she'd risked hot car death (by leaving a child old enough to get out if the car and come find her inside in a car with open windows for a few minutes).

If we had more sane attitudes about supervision of kids this age OP could have just cracked the windows and this would be socially confined. Heck, In a functional society OP should have been able to tell her son "if there's an emergency, talk to that security guard over there" and then let the guard know her son was in the car and the guard would be like "cool, thanks for letting me know."

But we live in a non functional society where leaving a 7 year old who can walk and talk and read and write alone for a few minutes is "child neglect." Meanwhile there are actual cases of child neglect that never get prosecuted because most neglect happens in private homes.

It's idiotic. Did you know in Denmark parents routinely leave babies in strollers outside store and restaurants so they can finish naps? Because they have a social agreement that children are a collective responsibility. They are happier and more well adjusted people than we are

We are not in Denmark. The couple from Denmark who did this in nyc got in big trouble.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Yikes, this is all really disheartening. Trust me, I am not a “mommy martyr”, and in general I think that a lot of expectations on parents are way too high. But not leaving a young child (or children) alone in a car seems like a no-brainer. It’s disturbing there are posters bragging about doing this. We get it, you’re an irresponsible parent - why is that something you seem proud of? Is it more hassle to bring the kid in with you? Sure. But oh well, that’s going to happen sometimes.

OP’s kid is 7. That means he’s in 2nd grade. If you can’t leave your 2nd grader alone in car for 10 minutes, it’s either because they have profound special needs, or more likely it means that you are absolutely failing as a parent.

And everyone needs to be real - I’m not looking up the dumb@$$ arbitrary laws of whatever state I happen to be in before I use *my own judgement* to determine what I think my child can handle before I pop into a store for a few minutes.

Some of you really need to grow a spine.

It’s not about your spine or your kid’s spine. It’s about what other people can do to 7 year olds.

If you want to talk about what people "can" do to other people then almost no one should be left in a car alone. I'm 5' tall and weigh 100 lbs. People can do all kinds of things to me if they want and yet I am alone in public all the time.

In MD the law says you can't leave a 7 yr old alone in a car but you can leave an 8 yr old alone in a car. Are 8 yr olds more impervious to what other people can do? Of course not.

This is about the maturity level of the child. Most states have determined a 7 yr old is mature enough to sit in a car alone. Because they are. Just because you can imagine all kinds of crazy things that could happen to that 7 yr old doesn't mean they have even a remote chance of them happening.

I’m sure some 15 yr olds would be very safe drivers. And some 19 year olds can drink safely. But we live in a society here, whether or not you agree with every rule.

Yes and in VA where OP lines and in 42 of 50 US states it is legal to leave a 7 year old alone in a car. Yet we have many posters in this thread arguing OP is a bad person for doing it.

What's next? Yelling at parents who let their kids get drivers licenses when they can legally do so? Getting mad at colleges that permit 21 year old students to drink at campus events with alcohol?

Which is it? You have to follow the law (in which case OP is fine and the security guard was out if line) or you have to use your own judgment (in which case you need to accept people may have different judgment than you)?

OP leaves that out until page 5 that she was in VA. Multiple people asked where knowing the rules were different but curiously no answer for 5 pages. But, no I don’t trust people and their own judgment and prefer rules and laws to protect the rest of us.

OP put the jurisdiction in her second post. Some people don't spend hours on DCUM-- they post and then do other things and come back. It's not like OP was maliciously withholding this info. She didn't realize people would care and then provided it when it was asked.

And if you prefer rules and laws then your in luck! OP was following the law and the security guard was the one trying to impose his judgment on OP. So it sounds like you are on OP's side.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:YES, it is a crime here.

The guard did an excellent job. Good for him.

No, it’s not a “crime”.

What do you call it when something is "against the law" ? Are you trying to be cutesy and call it "non-lawful" or something? Yes, it's a crime.

It’s not a crime.

In Maryland, it is a crime. I don't necessarily agree that it's unsafe at seven, but it is a misdemeanor, so I didn't do it.

No it’s not, unless child is under 4.

https://law.justia.com/codes/maryland/2005/gfl/5-801.html

(a) A person who is charged with the care of a child under the age of 8 years may not allow the child to be locked or confined in a dwelling, building, enclosure, or motor vehicle while the person charged is absent and the dwelling, building, enclosure, or motor vehicle is out of the sight of the person charged unless the person charged provides a reliable person at least 13 years old to remain with the child to protect the child.

(b) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to a fine not exceeding $500 or imprisonment not exceeding 30 days, or both

I've represented people who were charged under this section. It's absolutely a crime, up to age 8.

Crazy. I was a paid baby sitter at 11 in the great state of Maryland.

Do you use an 11 (or even 12 yo) babysitter for your kids today?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can totally leave it running for the AC, leave the key fob with the kid and have them lock the door. Then when you get back, they unlock it for you. 7 is plenty old to do this.

So that’s what you do with your 7 year old?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Yikes, this is all really disheartening. Trust me, I am not a “mommy martyr”, and in general I think that a lot of expectations on parents are way too high. But not leaving a young child (or children) alone in a car seems like a no-brainer. It’s disturbing there are posters bragging about doing this. We get it, you’re an irresponsible parent - why is that something you seem proud of? Is it more hassle to bring the kid in with you? Sure. But oh well, that’s going to happen sometimes.

OP’s kid is 7. That means he’s in 2nd grade. If you can’t leave your 2nd grader alone in car for 10 minutes, it’s either because they have profound special needs, or more likely it means that you are absolutely failing as a parent.

And everyone needs to be real - I’m not looking up the dumb@$$ arbitrary laws of whatever state I happen to be in before I use *my own judgement* to determine what I think my child can handle before I pop into a store for a few minutes.

Some of you really need to grow a spine.

It’s not about your spine or your kid’s spine. It’s about what other people can do to 7 year olds.

If you want to talk about what people "can" do to other people then almost no one should be left in a car alone. I'm 5' tall and weigh 100 lbs. People can do all kinds of things to me if they want and yet I am alone in public all the time.

In MD the law says you can't leave a 7 yr old alone in a car but you can leave an 8 yr old alone in a car. Are 8 yr olds more impervious to what other people can do? Of course not.

This is about the maturity level of the child. Most states have determined a 7 yr old is mature enough to sit in a car alone. Because they are. Just because you can imagine all kinds of crazy things that could happen to that 7 yr old doesn't mean they have even a remote chance of them happening.

I’m sure some 15 yr olds would be very safe drivers. And some 19 year olds can drink safely. But we live in a society here, whether or not you agree with every rule.

Yes and in VA where OP lines and in 42 of 50 US states it is legal to leave a 7 year old alone in a car. Yet we have many posters in this thread arguing OP is a bad person for doing it.

What's next? Yelling at parents who let their kids get drivers licenses when they can legally do so? Getting mad at colleges that permit 21 year old students to drink at campus events with alcohol?

Which is it? You have to follow the law (in which case OP is fine and the security guard was out if line) or you have to use your own judgment (in which case you need to accept people may have different judgment than you)?

OP leaves that out until page 5 that she was in VA. Multiple people asked where knowing the rules were different but curiously no answer for 5 pages. But, no I don’t trust people and their own judgment and prefer rules and laws to protect the rest of us.

OP put the jurisdiction in her second post. Some people don't spend hours on DCUM-- they post and then do other things and come back. It's not like OP was maliciously withholding this info. She didn't realize people would care and then provided it when it was asked.

And if you prefer rules and laws then your in luck! OP was following the law and the security guard was the one trying to impose his judgment on OP. So it sounds like you are on OP's side.

OP could have plainly written her entire OP saying “In VA this is legal that guard was WRONG” but instead wrote a vague post and also clearly never discussed this with the guard and put a stop to it why not? And also no clue what post is the 2nd post. Are you OP sockpuppeting. OP clearly identifies herself on page 5 as OP and this is in VA. Did OP identify in the post you’re talking about?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You can totally leave it running for the AC, leave the key fob with the kid and have them lock the door. Then when you get back, they unlock it for you. 7 is plenty old to do this.

I worry about a car jacker showing up with a gun and demanding that the car be unlocked.

You are worrying about a fantasy that will never happen.

Yeah. You tell ‘em.

Or…

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/two-juveniles-sought-in-car-theft-with-child-inside-in-northwest-dc-police/3172083/

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/4-month-old-girl-found-after-being-taken-in-georgetown-car-theft/3508529/

Those cars were not parked in parking lots with security guards-- they were parked on the street.

The kids in those cases were much younger. In the case of the infant, the carjacker likely did not even realize the baby was in the car for some time.

It's also not clear how long those cars were left idling. In the infant case the mom left the car to go into a perfume store (wtf). Are these cases of people running short errands nearby or are they cases of people using leaving kids in idling cars for 30 or 60 minutes?

The PP is envisioning a situation where a carjacker approaches a locked car with a 7 year old visible in the back seat, and in full view of the security guard and what I'm sure are security cameras outside the pharmacy, points a gun at the child and demands they unlock the car. In the 3-5 minutes the mom was inside the pharmacy.

This will not happen.

So the security guard was babysitting the child? Is that his job?

I actually do think it's his job. It was a few minutes and the mom was right inside. The child is 7, not 2.

The other day I was at the grocery store with my 8 yr old and it started pouring rain while we were in the store. DD was in flipflops (post swim class) and I decided to run and get the car and pick her up at the curb. I left her in the vestibule next to the door. I did consider this a reasonably safe option in part because there was a security guard posted near the door and the area is monitored by cameras.

Am I a derelict parent for leaving an elementary kid alone in public for a few minutes?

It is your primary responsibility as a parent to keep your child safe. You make the guard’s job harder by handing over that job to the guard because you can’t turn off the car while you run into the store. So self-centered.

Again -- in a functional society no one considers a security guard keeping an eye on an older kid in a car for 10 minutes to be "baby-sitting." It's just being a person in society. But the US is not functional around families and children so we have this deranged idea that from birth until like 12 or 13 a parent must have eyes on their child at all times OR be paying a professional child minder to watch their kid. It is nonsensical and is actually BAD for kids in the long run.

The point is that a 7 year old is actually perfectly capable of handling themselves in a car for a few minutes. The security guard is not a baby-sitter (it's not a baby!) but is a layer of social protection against some of the rare and unlikely circumstances people are fretting about -- a carjacking or car accident. Those things are almost definitely not going to happen and the presence of a security guard makes them less likely.

This is how watching kids works in normal societies where kids are viewed as normal and necessary. People in other countries do not freak out when they see an unattended 7 year old in a public space where there are responsible adults present because why would they -- that kid is safe. It is only in the US where we have all been convinced that this is a dangerous situation thanks to the efforts of scare mongers who are mostly trying to rally hatred of working mothers and poor people (if it's illegal to leave any child alone for any length of time for any reason then I guess women have to stay home with kids for 18 years and poor people should not have kids at all right).

It’s not his job. If he’s busy watching the kid then he’s not doing his actual job. What a selfish viewpoint. It’s your job to keep an eye on your own kids and you’re neglecting it. Why aren’t you doing the job youself?

It’s not a job! It’s a child living their life in a public space. It’s perfectly safe.

But I won’t do it. Because of people like you. And it adds to the stress of parenting.

The birth rate will continue to decline. The high costs combined with the intense expectations are just unbearable.

I did my part. I had 3 kids. And I made them come with me to run errands and into the store and carried my tantrum prone daughter like a football to drop her older brother off in preschool because we weren’t allowed to leave them in the car. My daughter wanted to stay and play too, so dragging her in for drop off was a nightmare but i had no choice. Everyone gets through it. Luckily my kids are legit old enough to stay at home. I don’t leave them in the car because they will for sure fight. Mostly I just plan my errands for when the kids aren’t with me. Your 7 yr olds aren’t old enough yet but will be soon.

Every time you take a little kid through a busy parking lot you are putting them at greater risk of bodily harm than just leaving them in the car for a few minutes.

Idiots.

Point is, I don’t make the rules. I follow them and don’t ask for exceptions. I personally know a mom who had CPS visit her after leaving her kid in a car to pick up a pizza. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

That’s the American spirit!! Personally I’d rather be arrested than follow stupid rules (which are not based on evidence) that I think are actually detrimental to me raising my kids to be confident, capable adults someday. Bit YMMV.

You follow stupid rules every day. Been arrested yet?

Why would I be arrested for following stupid rules? You’re not very bright.

I do break stupid rules (I don’t know about every day, though). For example, I cross the street wherever the F I want to cross the street. I drink sangria in the state of Virginia before 2008. I even “lived in sin” with my then-boyfriend in the state of Virginia before the law was repealed!!!

And no, I haven’t been arrested yet.

Interesting. Jaywalking is now a safe practice necessary for raising capable confident adults? Interesting. I thought you liked evidenced based rules.

dp If you get hit by jaywalking guess who is going to get in trouble? If you were acting in an unsafe way than it might not be the driver!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, this thread.

I am curious what the security guard's behavior would have been if OP was a man.

I also used to read in the car at this age while my mom ran errands. She generally gave me a choice. She would not have left the car running so the choice would have been "stay in the uncomfortably hot car and read or come on the boring errand with AC." I usually chose car because I like being warm and love reading.

Some of you are overstating the risk of carjacking. Also isn't the security guard there to prevent carjacking?

I do this sometimes when I need to run in the house to grab something (we live in an apartment building). If I know it will only be a couple minutes, and I can look out the window to check on DC if I need to. DC knows how to get out of the car and come in the building on their own if they needed to.

It's actually good for kids to earn some independence and trust as they get older. It's good parenting to give them opportunities to be alone in public spaces in small doses. In a few years my kid will be in middle school and will be riding a public bus to school on their own. How will they reach the point where that is possible if they are never left alone in public for even a few minutes before the age of 10?

So for all of you folks arguing that OP was fine, how many of you leave your 7 year old in a running car? Sadly I still have to run errands in person on occasion. I have never seen this but I see ton of kids in the store, I think most of you don’t actually live what you are saying.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Let’s remember there’s not some magical thing that happens upon midnight on a child’s 8th birthday. They are not sprinkled with fairy dust and determined to be safe at that time.

I mean, the magical thing that happens is they can legally be left alone. It’s sort of like the magic about drinking when you turn 21.

Right. So some of us actually get be our kid's alcohol before they turn 21, even though it's illegal, specifically because we want to teach them about alcohol and how to create name it responsibly before they are 21 yr old college kids.

Like some of us want to be able to guide and prepare our kids for increasing levels of independence and responsibility. Leave them in a car alone for 3 minutes in a pharmacy parking lot with a security guard in a safe neighborhood while I run inside. Give a 17 yr old a half glass of wine with dinner on vacation so they can learn how alcohol impacts them in a safe environment. These laws don't help you actually raise kids. A drinking and of 21 is idiotic and we all know it-- kids legally can't drink until they've been adults for 3 years? What? A 7 year old can't wait in outside in a car fir a few minutes? These are nonsensical provisions for good patents because obviously part of parenting is slowly introducing your child to greater levels of independence and responsibility. You have to TEACH kids how to be in the world. They don't magically gain this knowledge on their birthday.

Mydh and my family is riddled with alcoholics so no I did not encourage them to 'belly up to the bar' there is need for alcohol. I've seen too many lives ruined. Same for pot and other drugs.

You can teach independence but not this way.

My parents were like this (zero tolerance on drugs and alcohol) because they had parents who were alcoholics and it didn't work-- both my brothers developed substance abuse issues and also just lied to my parents constantly because they knew they'd get in trouble if they revealed they'd been drinking or using drugs.

Meanwhile I know families who allowed older teems small points of alcohol at family functions starting around 15 or so, and had family discussions about alcohol use and talked through how to keep yourself from drinking too much and also how to decline drinking at all in situations like when you are driving or you just don't want to. The kids in these families became responsible adults with functional attitudes toward alcohol and other substances.

In general I think it's better to introduce kids to new responsibilities slowly over time instead of all at once.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You can totally leave it running for the AC, leave the key fob with the kid and have them lock the door. Then when you get back, they unlock it for you. 7 is plenty old to do this.

I worry about a car jacker showing up with a gun and demanding that the car be unlocked.

You are worrying about a fantasy that will never happen.

Yeah. You tell ‘em.

Or…

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/two-juveniles-sought-in-car-theft-with-child-inside-in-northwest-dc-police/3172083/

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/4-month-old-girl-found-after-being-taken-in-georgetown-car-theft/3508529/

Those cars were not parked in parking lots with security guards-- they were parked on the street.

The kids in those cases were much younger. In the case of the infant, the carjacker likely did not even realize the baby was in the car for some time.

It's also not clear how long those cars were left idling. In the infant case the mom left the car to go into a perfume store (wtf). Are these cases of people running short errands nearby or are they cases of people using leaving kids in idling cars for 30 or 60 minutes?

The PP is envisioning a situation where a carjacker approaches a locked car with a 7 year old visible in the back seat, and in full view of the security guard and what I'm sure are security cameras outside the pharmacy, points a gun at the child and demands they unlock the car. In the 3-5 minutes the mom was inside the pharmacy.

This will not happen.

So the security guard was babysitting the child? Is that his job?

I actually do think it's his job. It was a few minutes and the mom was right inside. The child is 7, not 2.

The other day I was at the grocery store with my 8 yr old and it started pouring rain while we were in the store. DD was in flipflops (post swim class) and I decided to run and get the car and pick her up at the curb. I left her in the vestibule next to the door. I did consider this a reasonably safe option in part because there was a security guard posted near the door and the area is monitored by cameras.

Am I a derelict parent for leaving an elementary kid alone in public for a few minutes?

It is your primary responsibility as a parent to keep your child safe. You make the guard’s job harder by handing over that job to the guard because you can’t turn off the car while you run into the store. So self-centered.

Again -- in a functional society no one considers a security guard keeping an eye on an older kid in a car for 10 minutes to be "baby-sitting." It's just being a person in society. But the US is not functional around families and children so we have this deranged idea that from birth until like 12 or 13 a parent must have eyes on their child at all times OR be paying a professional child minder to watch their kid. It is nonsensical and is actually BAD for kids in the long run.

The point is that a 7 year old is actually perfectly capable of handling themselves in a car for a few minutes. The security guard is not a baby-sitter (it's not a baby!) but is a layer of social protection against some of the rare and unlikely circumstances people are fretting about -- a carjacking or car accident. Those things are almost definitely not going to happen and the presence of a security guard makes them less likely.

This is how watching kids works in normal societies where kids are viewed as normal and necessary. People in other countries do not freak out when they see an unattended 7 year old in a public space where there are responsible adults present because why would they -- that kid is safe. It is only in the US where we have all been convinced that this is a dangerous situation thanks to the efforts of scare mongers who are mostly trying to rally hatred of working mothers and poor people (if it's illegal to leave any child alone for any length of time for any reason then I guess women have to stay home with kids for 18 years and poor people should not have kids at all right).

It’s not his job. If he’s busy watching the kid then he’s not doing his actual job. What a selfish viewpoint. It’s your job to keep an eye on your own kids and you’re neglecting it. Why aren’t you doing the job youself?

It’s not a job! It’s a child living their life in a public space. It’s perfectly safe.

But I won’t do it. Because of people like you. And it adds to the stress of parenting.

The birth rate will continue to decline. The high costs combined with the intense expectations are just unbearable.

I did my part. I had 3 kids. And I made them come with me to run errands and into the store and carried my tantrum prone daughter like a football to drop her older brother off in preschool because we weren’t allowed to leave them in the car. My daughter wanted to stay and play too, so dragging her in for drop off was a nightmare but i had no choice. Everyone gets through it. Luckily my kids are legit old enough to stay at home. I don’t leave them in the car because they will for sure fight. Mostly I just plan my errands for when the kids aren’t with me. Your 7 yr olds aren’t old enough yet but will be soon.

Every time you take a little kid through a busy parking lot you are putting them at greater risk of bodily harm than just leaving them in the car for a few minutes.

Idiots.

Point is, I don’t make the rules. I follow them and don’t ask for exceptions. I personally know a mom who had CPS visit her after leaving her kid in a car to pick up a pizza. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

That’s the American spirit!! Personally I’d rather be arrested than follow stupid rules (which are not based on evidence) that I think are actually detrimental to me raising my kids to be confident, capable adults someday. Bit YMMV.

You follow stupid rules every day. Been arrested yet?

Why would I be arrested for following stupid rules? You’re not very bright.

I do break stupid rules (I don’t know about every day, though). For example, I cross the street wherever the F I want to cross the street. I drink sangria in the state of Virginia before 2008. I even “lived in sin” with my then-boyfriend in the state of Virginia before the law was repealed!!!

And no, I haven’t been arrested yet.

Interesting. Jaywalking is now a safe practice necessary for raising capable confident adults? Interesting. I thought you liked evidenced based rules.

Shockingly you have completely missed the point. “Jaywalking” isn’t a real thing - it’s just a stupid rule made up to protect operators of motor vehicles from liability when they (inevitably) don’t pay attention to what they’re doing. So rather than following this stupid rule, I teach my kids to pay attention when they’re walking and use their perfectly capable brains to make judgement calls.

[Anonymous]

It's not so much that bringing a 7 year old with you is that difficult. It's the accumulation of stress and expectations on the parent.

For example, my 7 year old rides a 2 wheeler very well. However, even though she lives in an area where there would be no major streets to cross to get to school, she's not allowed to bike until 3rd grade. So that's another year of school drop off and pick up stress.

The list of those things in the US gigantic and ever growing it seems.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:YES, it is a crime here.

The guard did an excellent job. Good for him.

No, it’s not a “crime”.

What do you call it when something is "against the law" ? Are you trying to be cutesy and call it "non-lawful" or something? Yes, it's a crime.

It’s not a crime.

In Maryland, it is a crime. I don't necessarily agree that it's unsafe at seven, but it is a misdemeanor, so I didn't do it.

No it’s not, unless child is under 4.

https://law.justia.com/codes/maryland/2005/gfl/5-801.html

(a) A person who is charged with the care of a child under the age of 8 years may not allow the child to be locked or confined in a dwelling, building, enclosure, or motor vehicle while the person charged is absent and the dwelling, building, enclosure, or motor vehicle is out of the sight of the person charged unless the person charged provides a reliable person at least 13 years old to remain with the child to protect the child.

(b) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to a fine not exceeding $500 or imprisonment not exceeding 30 days, or both

I've represented people who were charged under this section. It's absolutely a crime, up to age 8.

Crazy. I was a paid baby sitter at 11 in the great state of Maryland.

Do you use an 11 (or even 12 yo) babysitter for your kids today?

I do!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Yikes, this is all really disheartening. Trust me, I am not a “mommy martyr”, and in general I think that a lot of expectations on parents are way too high. But not leaving a young child (or children) alone in a car seems like a no-brainer. It’s disturbing there are posters bragging about doing this. We get it, you’re an irresponsible parent - why is that something you seem proud of? Is it more hassle to bring the kid in with you? Sure. But oh well, that’s going to happen sometimes.

OP’s kid is 7. That means he’s in 2nd grade. If you can’t leave your 2nd grader alone in car for 10 minutes, it’s either because they have profound special needs, or more likely it means that you are absolutely failing as a parent.

And everyone needs to be real - I’m not looking up the dumb@$$ arbitrary laws of whatever state I happen to be in before I use *my own judgement* to determine what I think my child can handle before I pop into a store for a few minutes.

Some of you really need to grow a spine.

It’s not about your spine or your kid’s spine. It’s about what other people can do to 7 year olds.

If you want to talk about what people "can" do to other people then almost no one should be left in a car alone. I'm 5' tall and weigh 100 lbs. People can do all kinds of things to me if they want and yet I am alone in public all the time.

In MD the law says you can't leave a 7 yr old alone in a car but you can leave an 8 yr old alone in a car. Are 8 yr olds more impervious to what other people can do? Of course not.

This is about the maturity level of the child. Most states have determined a 7 yr old is mature enough to sit in a car alone. Because they are. Just because you can imagine all kinds of crazy things that could happen to that 7 yr old doesn't mean they have even a remote chance of them happening.

I’m sure some 15 yr olds would be very safe drivers. And some 19 year olds can drink safely. But we live in a society here, whether or not you agree with every rule.

Yes and in VA where OP lines and in 42 of 50 US states it is legal to leave a 7 year old alone in a car. Yet we have many posters in this thread arguing OP is a bad person for doing it.

What's next? Yelling at parents who let their kids get drivers licenses when they can legally do so? Getting mad at colleges that permit 21 year old students to drink at campus events with alcohol?

Which is it? You have to follow the law (in which case OP is fine and the security guard was out if line) or you have to use your own judgment (in which case you need to accept people may have different judgment than you)?

OP leaves that out until page 5 that she was in VA. Multiple people asked where knowing the rules were different but curiously no answer for 5 pages. But, no I don’t trust people and their own judgment and prefer rules and laws to protect the rest of us.

OP put the jurisdiction in her second post. Some people don't spend hours on DCUM-- they post and then do other things and come back. It's not like OP was maliciously withholding this info. She didn't realize people would care and then provided it when it was asked.

And if you prefer rules and laws then your in luck! OP was following the law and the security guard was the one trying to impose his judgment on OP. So it sounds like you are on OP's side.

OP could have plainly written her entire OP saying “In VA this is legal that guard was WRONG” but instead wrote a vague post and also clearly never discussed this with the guard and put a stop to it why not? And also no clue what post is the 2nd post. Are you OP sockpuppeting. OP clearly identifies herself on page 5 as OP and this is in VA. Did OP identify in the post you’re talking about?

OP may not have realized this is illegal in certain states (there are only 8 states where it happens to be illegal so this is a reasonable misunderstanding).

I am not the OP but after you said she identified the state on page 5 I went back and looked and saw that OP identified herself in each of her posts and also that only a couple hours passed between her first and second post. You are trying to make it seem like OP was stringing people along and trolling but that's not how it looks to me at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s remember there’s not some magical thing that happens upon midnight on a child’s 8th birthday. They are not sprinkled with fairy dust and determined to be safe at that time.

I mean, the magical thing that happens is they can legally be left alone. It’s sort of like the magic about drinking when you turn 21.

Right. So some of us actually get be our kid's alcohol before they turn 21, even though it's illegal, specifically because we want to teach them about alcohol and how to create name it responsibly before they are 21 yr old college kids.

Like some of us want to be able to guide and prepare our kids for increasing levels of independence and responsibility. Leave them in a car alone for 3 minutes in a pharmacy parking lot with a security guard in a safe neighborhood while I run inside. Give a 17 yr old a half glass of wine with dinner on vacation so they can learn how alcohol impacts them in a safe environment. These laws don't help you actually raise kids. A drinking and of 21 is idiotic and we all know it-- kids legally can't drink until they've been adults for 3 years? What? A 7 year old can't wait in outside in a car fir a few minutes? These are nonsensical provisions for good patents because obviously part of parenting is slowly introducing your child to greater levels of independence and responsibility. You have to TEACH kids how to be in the world. They don't magically gain this knowledge on their birthday.

Mydh and my family is riddled with alcoholics so no I did not encourage them to 'belly up to the bar' there is need for alcohol. I've seen too many lives ruined. Same for pot and other drugs.

You can teach independence but not this way.

My parents were like this (zero tolerance on drugs and alcohol) because they had parents who were alcoholics and it didn't work-- both my brothers developed substance abuse issues and also just lied to my parents constantly because they knew they'd get in trouble if they revealed they'd been drinking or using drugs.

Meanwhile I know families who allowed older teems small points of alcohol at family functions starting around 15 or so, and had family discussions about alcohol use and talked through how to keep yourself from drinking too much and also how to decline drinking at all in situations like when you are driving or you just don't want to. The kids in these families became responsible adults with functional attitudes toward alcohol and other substances.

In general I think it's better to introduce kids to new responsibilities slowly over time instead of all at once.

There is a genetic predisposition for alcoholism. I don’t see how a family of alcoholics can responsibly and safely introduce alcohol to a minor. They might become alcoholics later but better to not get that ball rolling at 17 with your permission.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yikes, this is all really disheartening. Trust me, I am not a “mommy martyr”, and in general I think that a lot of expectations on parents are way too high. But not leaving a young child (or children) alone in a car seems like a no-brainer. It’s disturbing there are posters bragging about doing this. We get it, you’re an irresponsible parent - why is that something you seem proud of? Is it more hassle to bring the kid in with you? Sure. But oh well, that’s going to happen sometimes.

OP’s kid is 7. That means he’s in 2nd grade. If you can’t leave your 2nd grader alone in car for 10 minutes, it’s either because they have profound special needs, or more likely it means that you are absolutely failing as a parent.

And everyone needs to be real - I’m not looking up the dumb@$$ arbitrary laws of whatever state I happen to be in before I use *my own judgement* to determine what I think my child can handle before I pop into a store for a few minutes.

Some of you really need to grow a spine.

It’s not about your spine or your kid’s spine. It’s about what other people can do to 7 year olds.

If you want to talk about what people "can" do to other people then almost no one should be left in a car alone. I'm 5' tall and weigh 100 lbs. People can do all kinds of things to me if they want and yet I am alone in public all the time.

In MD the law says you can't leave a 7 yr old alone in a car but you can leave an 8 yr old alone in a car. Are 8 yr olds more impervious to what other people can do? Of course not.

This is about the maturity level of the child. Most states have determined a 7 yr old is mature enough to sit in a car alone. Because they are. Just because you can imagine all kinds of crazy things that could happen to that 7 yr old doesn't mean they have even a remote chance of them happening.

I’m sure some 15 yr olds would be very safe drivers. And some 19 year olds can drink safely. But we live in a society here, whether or not you agree with every rule.

Yes and in VA where OP lines and in 42 of 50 US states it is legal to leave a 7 year old alone in a car. Yet we have many posters in this thread arguing OP is a bad person for doing it.

What's next? Yelling at parents who let their kids get drivers licenses when they can legally do so? Getting mad at colleges that permit 21 year old students to drink at campus events with alcohol?

Which is it? You have to follow the law (in which case OP is fine and the security guard was out if line) or you have to use your own judgment (in which case you need to accept people may have different judgment than you)?

OP leaves that out until page 5 that she was in VA. Multiple people asked where knowing the rules were different but curiously no answer for 5 pages. But, no I don’t trust people and their own judgment and prefer rules and laws to protect the rest of us.

OP put the jurisdiction in her second post. Some people don't spend hours on DCUM-- they post and then do other things and come back. It's not like OP was maliciously withholding this info. She didn't realize people would care and then provided it when it was asked.

And if you prefer rules and laws then your in luck! OP was following the law and the security guard was the one trying to impose his judgment on OP. So it sounds like you are on OP's side.

OP could have plainly written her entire OP saying “In VA this is legal that guard was WRONG” but instead wrote a vague post and also clearly never discussed this with the guard and put a stop to it why not? And also no clue what post is the 2nd post. Are you OP sockpuppeting. OP clearly identifies herself on page 5 as OP and this is in VA. Did OP identify in the post you’re talking about?

OP may not have realized this is illegal in certain states (there are only 8 states where it happens to be illegal so this is a reasonable misunderstanding).

I am not the OP but after you said she identified the state on page 5 I went back and looked and saw that OP identified herself in each of her posts and also that only a couple hours passed between her first and second post. You are trying to make it seem like OP was stringing people along and trolling but that's not how it looks to me at all.

There are pages and pages of people asking “where?” It’s not far fetched to presume OP is a drama loving troll trying to drag this out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yikes, this is all really disheartening. Trust me, I am not a “mommy martyr”, and in general I think that a lot of expectations on parents are way too high. But not leaving a young child (or children) alone in a car seems like a no-brainer. It’s disturbing there are posters bragging about doing this. We get it, you’re an irresponsible parent - why is that something you seem proud of? Is it more hassle to bring the kid in with you? Sure. But oh well, that’s going to happen sometimes.

OP’s kid is 7. That means he’s in 2nd grade. If you can’t leave your 2nd grader alone in car for 10 minutes, it’s either because they have profound special needs, or more likely it means that you are absolutely failing as a parent.

And everyone needs to be real - I’m not looking up the dumb@$$ arbitrary laws of whatever state I happen to be in before I use *my own judgement* to determine what I think my child can handle before I pop into a store for a few minutes.

Some of you really need to grow a spine.

It’s not about your spine or your kid’s spine. It’s about what other people can do to 7 year olds.

If you want to talk about what people "can" do to other people then almost no one should be left in a car alone. I'm 5' tall and weigh 100 lbs. People can do all kinds of things to me if they want and yet I am alone in public all the time.

In MD the law says you can't leave a 7 yr old alone in a car but you can leave an 8 yr old alone in a car. Are 8 yr olds more impervious to what other people can do? Of course not.

This is about the maturity level of the child. Most states have determined a 7 yr old is mature enough to sit in a car alone. Because they are. Just because you can imagine all kinds of crazy things that could happen to that 7 yr old doesn't mean they have even a remote chance of them happening.

I’m sure some 15 yr olds would be very safe drivers. And some 19 year olds can drink safely. But we live in a society here, whether or not you agree with every rule.

Yes and in VA where OP lines and in 42 of 50 US states it is legal to leave a 7 year old alone in a car. Yet we have many posters in this thread arguing OP is a bad person for doing it.

What's next? Yelling at parents who let their kids get drivers licenses when they can legally do so? Getting mad at colleges that permit 21 year old students to drink at campus events with alcohol?

Which is it? You have to follow the law (in which case OP is fine and the security guard was out if line) or you have to use your own judgment (in which case you need to accept people may have different judgment than you)?

OP leaves that out until page 5 that she was in VA. Multiple people asked where knowing the rules were different but curiously no answer for 5 pages. But, no I don’t trust people and their own judgment and prefer rules and laws to protect the rest of us.

Sorry, I’m confused. You feel the need to be *protected* from OP’s 7 year old child sitting in her car? I think you need therapy, honestly. And try online first until you feel safe enough to leave your house…