Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.
That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.
I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.
People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"
Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.
People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.
This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:
When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?
No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.
You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.
In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.
Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.
Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.
MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.
+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.
Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?
Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.
There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.
South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.
Some of it is.
It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.
Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.
28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?
QO students cross 28 all the time.
Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.
There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.
Crown should only be walkable for crown and Rio people. That part of 28 has too much traffic and high speed. Other parts of 2 mile radius would all take 40 min to 1 hour to walk with multiple traffic lights to stop.
Now I know you're making s up.
1. Route 28 runs all the way from Point-of-Rocks to past Leisure World / Olney, so you don't even refer to the correct street name.
2. Your "2 mile radius" assertion is just wrong. There's plenty of residential areas within a two mile radius of Crown that is safely walkable, so it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about.
1. Keywest Ave , not sure why you mention olney.
2. Name one that’s actually safe that you will let your own kids walk everyday.
In other words you don't even know that 28 extends past Leisure World? Let me guess - a Silver Spring or Hungerford CO troll? Here's a news flash.
Nothing near Crown is as dangerous to the car doughnuts that Silver Spring has.
QO: QO is at the corner of Darnestown and Quince Orchard Road and kids walk it all time to head to McDonalds. You would also know it's heavily patroled since the Montgomery County police HQ is up the street.
Crown: I've been visiting Rio since long before it had a safety rail around the lake. To the north, it's not possible to cross 270 on foot and even car traffic can be dangerous when traffic stacks (goes from high speed to low speeds quickly. With one exception. There's a new apartment complex just off of 370/270 and they built a nice overpass there that folks frequently walk and safe since it's not at the off-ramp level. That provides access for walkers near Muddy Branch. To the west there is also the Downtown Crown area which has ample walker housing. To the Southwest (Key West area) there is housing by the hospital. To the South at the Shady Grove 270 on/off ramp - that is the dangerous part near Crown. You've got cars coming on and off 270 with low visibility turns. If you try to bus or have kids walk over the Shady Grove 270 overpass, I believe there's a high chance of an accident if there is ice or snow and it would be very dangerous for kids to walk. I've seen pedestrian adults heading to stores nearly get hit that way by cars trying to get on and off 270.
IMHO, Crown can safely accomodate anything in the 2 mi radius as long as it doesn't involve crossing 270 at Exit 9, or the Shady Grove overpass at Exit 8.
PP - I owe you one. Hate those damn silver spring intersections.
I live near the QO HS/28 crossing. It gets a bit hairy a few times a day with teens staring at their phones and with headphones on crossing the street, nary a fear in the world.
I would have died walking 90 min to and from HS back in the day. I had to lug a full size Cello, backpack with actual textbooks, lunch box and a giant gym bag for sports practice. Maybe it explains my back problems now that I’m old…
Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.
That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.
I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.
People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"
Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.
People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.
This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:
When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?
No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.
You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.
In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.
Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.
Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.
MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.
+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.
Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?
Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.
There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.
South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.
Some of it is.
It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.
Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.
28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?
QO students cross 28 all the time.
Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.
There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.
Crown should only be walkable for crown and Rio people. That part of 28 has too much traffic and high speed. Other parts of 2 mile radius would all take 40 min to 1 hour to walk with multiple traffic lights to stop.
Now I know you're making s up.
1. Route 28 runs all the way from Point-of-Rocks to past Leisure World / Olney, so you don't even refer to the correct street name.
2. Your "2 mile radius" assertion is just wrong. There's plenty of residential areas within a two mile radius of Crown that is safely walkable, so it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about.
1. Keywest Ave , not sure why you mention olney.
2. Name one that’s actually safe that you will let your own kids walk everyday.
In other words you don't even know that 28 extends past Leisure World? Let me guess - a Silver Spring or Hungerford CO troll? Here's a news flash.
Nothing near Crown is as dangerous to the car doughnuts that Silver Spring has.
QO: QO is at the corner of Darnestown and Quince Orchard Road and kids walk it all time to head to McDonalds. You would also know it's heavily patroled since the Montgomery County police HQ is up the street.
Crown: I've been visiting Rio since long before it had a safety rail around the lake. To the north, it's not possible to cross 270 on foot and even car traffic can be dangerous when traffic stacks (goes from high speed to low speeds quickly. With one exception. There's a new apartment complex just off of 370/270 and they built a nice overpass there that folks frequently walk and safe since it's not at the off-ramp level. That provides access for walkers near Muddy Branch. To the west there is also the Downtown Crown area which has ample walker housing. To the Southwest (Key West area) there is housing by the hospital. To the South at the Shady Grove 270 on/off ramp - that is the dangerous part near Crown. You've got cars coming on and off 270 with low visibility turns. If you try to bus or have kids walk over the Shady Grove 270 overpass, I believe there's a high chance of an accident if there is ice or snow and it would be very dangerous for kids to walk. I've seen pedestrian adults heading to stores nearly get hit that way by cars trying to get on and off 270.
IMHO, Crown can safely accomodate anything in the 2 mi radius as long as it doesn't involve crossing 270 at Exit 9, or the Shady Grove overpass at Exit 8.
PP - I owe you one. Hate those damn silver spring intersections.
I live near the QO HS/28 crossing. It gets a bit hairy a few times a day with teens staring at their phones and with headphones on crossing the street, nary a fear in the world.
I would have died walking 90 min to and from HS back in the day. I had to lug a full size Cello, backpack with actual textbooks, lunch box and a giant gym bag for sports practice. Maybe it explains my back problems now that I’m old…
Generally the schools have a cello at school for students to use, so they don't have to lug their cellos back and forth every day.
I'm more worried about drivers staring at their phones, personally. When I'm driving and stopped at a red light, I see at least half of the other drivers doing something with their phone in their hand.
Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.
That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.
I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.
People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"
Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.
People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.
This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:
When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?
No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.
You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.
In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.
Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.
Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.
MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.
+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.
Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?
Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.
There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.
South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.
Some of it is.
It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.
Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.
28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?
QO students cross 28 all the time.
Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.
There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.
Crown should only be walkable for crown and Rio people. That part of 28 has too much traffic and high speed. Other parts of 2 mile radius would all take 40 min to 1 hour to walk with multiple traffic lights to stop.
Now I know you're making s up.
1. Route 28 runs all the way from Point-of-Rocks to past Leisure World / Olney, so you don't even refer to the correct street name.
2. Your "2 mile radius" assertion is just wrong. There's plenty of residential areas within a two mile radius of Crown that is safely walkable, so it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about.
1. Keywest Ave , not sure why you mention olney.
2. Name one that’s actually safe that you will let your own kids walk everyday.
In other words you don't even know that 28 extends past Leisure World? Let me guess - a Silver Spring or Hungerford CO troll? Here's a news flash.
Nothing near Crown is as dangerous to the car doughnuts that Silver Spring has.
QO: QO is at the corner of Darnestown and Quince Orchard Road and kids walk it all time to head to McDonalds. You would also know it's heavily patroled since the Montgomery County police HQ is up the street.
Crown: I've been visiting Rio since long before it had a safety rail around the lake. To the north, it's not possible to cross 270 on foot and even car traffic can be dangerous when traffic stacks (goes from high speed to low speeds quickly. With one exception. There's a new apartment complex just off of 370/270 and they built a nice overpass there that folks frequently walk and safe since it's not at the off-ramp level. That provides access for walkers near Muddy Branch. To the west there is also the Downtown Crown area which has ample walker housing. To the Southwest (Key West area) there is housing by the hospital. To the South at the Shady Grove 270 on/off ramp - that is the dangerous part near Crown. You've got cars coming on and off 270 with low visibility turns. If you try to bus or have kids walk over the Shady Grove 270 overpass, I believe there's a high chance of an accident if there is ice or snow and it would be very dangerous for kids to walk. I've seen pedestrian adults heading to stores nearly get hit that way by cars trying to get on and off 270.
IMHO, Crown can safely accomodate anything in the 2 mi radius as long as it doesn't involve crossing 270 at Exit 9, or the Shady Grove overpass at Exit 8.
PP - I owe you one. Hate those damn silver spring intersections.
I live near the QO HS/28 crossing. It gets a bit hairy a few times a day with teens staring at their phones and with headphones on crossing the street, nary a fear in the world.
I would have died walking 90 min to and from HS back in the day. I had to lug a full size Cello, backpack with actual textbooks, lunch box and a giant gym bag for sports practice. Maybe it explains my back problems now that I’m old…
Generally the schools have a cello at school for students to use, so they don't have to lug their cellos back and forth every day.
I'm more worried about drivers staring at their phones, personally. When I'm driving and stopped at a red light, I see at least half of the other drivers doing something with their phone in their hand.
The other stopped drivers, or the driving across drivers?
Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.
That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.
I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.
People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"
Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.
People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.
This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:
When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?
No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.
You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.
In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.
Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.
Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.
MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.
+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.
Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?
Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.
There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.
South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.
Some of it is.
It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.
Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.
28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?
QO students cross 28 all the time.
Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.
There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.
I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.
That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.
No one from King Farm is walking to RM either...
Of course, King farm is more than 2 miles away from RM.
Anyway, expecting kids to walk 2 miles each way is unreasonable too. It really should be reduced to 1 mile.
Portions of RM neighborhood west of 270 is less than 2 miles, and they take the bus. No one is crossing a freeway entrance/exit to get to school on foot even if it's less than 2mi.
However, HS students within a 2 mil radius who do not have to cross a freeway exit/entrance can and do walk to school.
Who rides the bus?
High school students living more than 2.0 miles of walking distance from school.*
Students who face hazardous walking conditions regardless of distance from school (multilane highways, construction areas, etc.) as determined by the MCPS Department of Transportation.
*A tenth of a mile may be added to establish a reasonable boundary.
Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.
That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.
I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.
People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"
Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.
People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.
This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:
When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?
No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.
You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.
In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.
Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.
Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.
MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.
+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.
Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?
Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.
There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.
South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.
Some of it is.
It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.
Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.
28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?
QO students cross 28 all the time.
Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.
There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.
Crown should only be walkable for crown and Rio people. That part of 28 has too much traffic and high speed. Other parts of 2 mile radius would all take 40 min to 1 hour to walk with multiple traffic lights to stop.
Now I know you're making s up.
1. Route 28 runs all the way from Point-of-Rocks to past Leisure World / Olney, so you don't even refer to the correct street name.
2. Your "2 mile radius" assertion is just wrong. There's plenty of residential areas within a two mile radius of Crown that is safely walkable, so it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about.
1. Keywest Ave , not sure why you mention olney.
2. Name one that’s actually safe that you will let your own kids walk everyday.
In other words you don't even know that 28 extends past Leisure World? Let me guess - a Silver Spring or Hungerford CO troll? Here's a news flash.
Nothing near Crown is as dangerous to the car doughnuts that Silver Spring has.
QO: QO is at the corner of Darnestown and Quince Orchard Road and kids walk it all time to head to McDonalds. You would also know it's heavily patroled since the Montgomery County police HQ is up the street.
Crown: I've been visiting Rio since long before it had a safety rail around the lake. To the north, it's not possible to cross 270 on foot and even car traffic can be dangerous when traffic stacks (goes from high speed to low speeds quickly. With one exception. There's a new apartment complex just off of 370/270 and they built a nice overpass there that folks frequently walk and safe since it's not at the off-ramp level. That provides access for walkers near Muddy Branch. To the west there is also the Downtown Crown area which has ample walker housing. To the Southwest (Key West area) there is housing by the hospital. To the South at the Shady Grove 270 on/off ramp - that is the dangerous part near Crown. You've got cars coming on and off 270 with low visibility turns. If you try to bus or have kids walk over the Shady Grove 270 overpass, I believe there's a high chance of an accident if there is ice or snow and it would be very dangerous for kids to walk. I've seen pedestrian adults heading to stores nearly get hit that way by cars trying to get on and off 270.
IMHO, Crown can safely accomodate anything in the 2 mi radius as long as it doesn't involve crossing 270 at Exit 9, or the Shady Grove overpass at Exit 8.
PP - I owe you one. Hate those damn silver spring intersections.
I live near the QO HS/28 crossing. It gets a bit hairy a few times a day with teens staring at their phones and with headphones on crossing the street, nary a fear in the world.
I would have died walking 90 min to and from HS back in the day. I had to lug a full size Cello, backpack with actual textbooks, lunch box and a giant gym bag for sports practice. Maybe it explains my back problems now that I’m old…
Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.
That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.
I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.
People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"
Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.
People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.
This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:
When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?
No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.
You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.
In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.
Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.
Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.
MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.
+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.
Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?
Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.
There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.
South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.
Some of it is.
It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.
Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.
28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?
QO students cross 28 all the time.
Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.
There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.
Crown should only be walkable for crown and Rio people. That part of 28 has too much traffic and high speed. Other parts of 2 mile radius would all take 40 min to 1 hour to walk with multiple traffic lights to stop.
Now I know you're making s up.
1. Route 28 runs all the way from Point-of-Rocks to past Leisure World / Olney, so you don't even refer to the correct street name.
2. Your "2 mile radius" assertion is just wrong. There's plenty of residential areas within a two mile radius of Crown that is safely walkable, so it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about.
1. Keywest Ave , not sure why you mention olney.
2. Name one that’s actually safe that you will let your own kids walk everyday.
In other words you don't even know that 28 extends past Leisure World? Let me guess - a Silver Spring or Hungerford CO troll? Here's a news flash.
Nothing near Crown is as dangerous to the car doughnuts that Silver Spring has.
QO: QO is at the corner of Darnestown and Quince Orchard Road and kids walk it all time to head to McDonalds. You would also know it's heavily patroled since the Montgomery County police HQ is up the street.
Crown: I've been visiting Rio since long before it had a safety rail around the lake. To the north, it's not possible to cross 270 on foot and even car traffic can be dangerous when traffic stacks (goes from high speed to low speeds quickly. With one exception. There's a new apartment complex just off of 370/270 and they built a nice overpass there that folks frequently walk and safe since it's not at the off-ramp level. That provides access for walkers near Muddy Branch. To the west there is also the Downtown Crown area which has ample walker housing. To the Southwest (Key West area) there is housing by the hospital. To the South at the Shady Grove 270 on/off ramp - that is the dangerous part near Crown. You've got cars coming on and off 270 with low visibility turns. If you try to bus or have kids walk over the Shady Grove 270 overpass, I believe there's a high chance of an accident if there is ice or snow and it would be very dangerous for kids to walk. I've seen pedestrian adults heading to stores nearly get hit that way by cars trying to get on and off 270.
IMHO, Crown can safely accomodate anything in the 2 mi radius as long as it doesn't involve crossing 270 at Exit 9, or the Shady Grove overpass at Exit 8.
PP - I owe you one. Hate those damn silver spring intersections.
I live near the QO HS/28 crossing. It gets a bit hairy a few times a day with teens staring at their phones and with headphones on crossing the street, nary a fear in the world.
I would have died walking 90 min to and from HS back in the day. I had to lug a full size Cello, backpack with actual textbooks, lunch box and a giant gym bag for sports practice. Maybe it explains my back problems now that I’m old…
Generally the schools have a cello at school for students to use, so they don't have to lug their cellos back and forth every day.
I'm more worried about drivers staring at their phones, personally. When I'm driving and stopped at a red light, I see at least half of the other drivers doing something with their phone in their hand.
The other stopped drivers, or the driving across drivers?
Well, both, but it's easier to see the stopped drivers doing it, because they're stopped.
Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.
That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.
I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.
People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"
Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.
People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.
This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:
When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?
No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.
You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.
In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.
Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.
Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.
MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.
+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.
Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?
Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.
There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.
South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.
Some of it is.
It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.
Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.
28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?
QO students cross 28 all the time.
Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.
There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.
Crown should only be walkable for crown and Rio people. That part of 28 has too much traffic and high speed. Other parts of 2 mile radius would all take 40 min to 1 hour to walk with multiple traffic lights to stop.
Now I know you're making s up.
1. Route 28 runs all the way from Point-of-Rocks to past Leisure World / Olney, so you don't even refer to the correct street name.
2. Your "2 mile radius" assertion is just wrong. There's plenty of residential areas within a two mile radius of Crown that is safely walkable, so it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about.
1. Keywest Ave , not sure why you mention olney.
2. Name one that’s actually safe that you will let your own kids walk everyday.
In other words you don't even know that 28 extends past Leisure World? Let me guess - a Silver Spring or Hungerford CO troll? Here's a news flash.
Nothing near Crown is as dangerous to the car doughnuts that Silver Spring has.
QO: QO is at the corner of Darnestown and Quince Orchard Road and kids walk it all time to head to McDonalds. You would also know it's heavily patroled since the Montgomery County police HQ is up the street.
Crown: I've been visiting Rio since long before it had a safety rail around the lake. To the north, it's not possible to cross 270 on foot and even car traffic can be dangerous when traffic stacks (goes from high speed to low speeds quickly. With one exception. There's a new apartment complex just off of 370/270 and they built a nice overpass there that folks frequently walk and safe since it's not at the off-ramp level. That provides access for walkers near Muddy Branch. To the west there is also the Downtown Crown area which has ample walker housing. To the Southwest (Key West area) there is housing by the hospital. To the South at the Shady Grove 270 on/off ramp - that is the dangerous part near Crown. You've got cars coming on and off 270 with low visibility turns. If you try to bus or have kids walk over the Shady Grove 270 overpass, I believe there's a high chance of an accident if there is ice or snow and it would be very dangerous for kids to walk. I've seen pedestrian adults heading to stores nearly get hit that way by cars trying to get on and off 270.
IMHO, Crown can safely accomodate anything in the 2 mi radius as long as it doesn't involve crossing 270 at Exit 9, or the Shady Grove overpass at Exit 8.
PP - I owe you one. Hate those damn silver spring intersections.
I live near the QO HS/28 crossing. It gets a bit hairy a few times a day with teens staring at their phones and with headphones on crossing the street, nary a fear in the world.
I would have died walking 90 min to and from HS back in the day. I had to lug a full size Cello, backpack with actual textbooks, lunch box and a giant gym bag for sports practice. Maybe it explains my back problems now that I’m old…
Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.
That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.
I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.
People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"
Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.
People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.
This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:
When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?
No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.
You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.
In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.
Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.
Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.
MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.
+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.
Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?
Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.
There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.
South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.
Some of it is.
It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.
Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.
28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?
QO students cross 28 all the time.
Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.
There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.
Crown should only be walkable for crown and Rio people. That part of 28 has too much traffic and high speed. Other parts of 2 mile radius would all take 40 min to 1 hour to walk with multiple traffic lights to stop.
Now I know you're making s up.
1. Route 28 runs all the way from Point-of-Rocks to past Leisure World / Olney, so you don't even refer to the correct street name.
2. Your "2 mile radius" assertion is just wrong. There's plenty of residential areas within a two mile radius of Crown that is safely walkable, so it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about.
1. Keywest Ave , not sure why you mention olney.
2. Name one that’s actually safe that you will let your own kids walk everyday.
In other words you don't even know that 28 extends past Leisure World? Let me guess - a Silver Spring or Hungerford CO troll? Here's a news flash.
Nothing near Crown is as dangerous to the car doughnuts that Silver Spring has.
QO: QO is at the corner of Darnestown and Quince Orchard Road and kids walk it all time to head to McDonalds. You would also know it's heavily patroled since the Montgomery County police HQ is up the street.
Crown: I've been visiting Rio since long before it had a safety rail around the lake. To the north, it's not possible to cross 270 on foot and even car traffic can be dangerous when traffic stacks (goes from high speed to low speeds quickly. With one exception. There's a new apartment complex just off of 370/270 and they built a nice overpass there that folks frequently walk and safe since it's not at the off-ramp level. That provides access for walkers near Muddy Branch. To the west there is also the Downtown Crown area which has ample walker housing. To the Southwest (Key West area) there is housing by the hospital. To the South at the Shady Grove 270 on/off ramp - that is the dangerous part near Crown. You've got cars coming on and off 270 with low visibility turns. If you try to bus or have kids walk over the Shady Grove 270 overpass, I believe there's a high chance of an accident if there is ice or snow and it would be very dangerous for kids to walk. I've seen pedestrian adults heading to stores nearly get hit that way by cars trying to get on and off 270.
IMHO, Crown can safely accomodate anything in the 2 mi radius as long as it doesn't involve crossing 270 at Exit 9, or the Shady Grove overpass at Exit 8.
PP - I owe you one. Hate those damn silver spring intersections.
I live near the QO HS/28 crossing. It gets a bit hairy a few times a day with teens staring at their phones and with headphones on crossing the street, nary a fear in the world.
I would have died walking 90 min to and from HS back in the day. I had to lug a full size Cello, backpack with actual textbooks, lunch box and a giant gym bag for sports practice. Maybe it explains my back problems now that I’m old…
Walking is great exercise.
Especially in the snow, uphill both ways.
please.. if there's an inch of snow, school gets canceled.
Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.
That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.
I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.
People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"
Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.
People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.
This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:
When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?
No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.
You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.
In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.
Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.
Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.
MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.
+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.
Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?
Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.
There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.
South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.
Some of it is.
It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.
Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.
28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?
QO students cross 28 all the time.
Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.
There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.
I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.
That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.
No one from King Farm is walking to RM either...
Of course, King farm is more than 2 miles away from RM.
Anyway, expecting kids to walk 2 miles each way is unreasonable too. It really should be reduced to 1 mile.
No, Kings Farm is within a 2 mile radius of Crown. It's 2.5 miles by walking, bicycle or car; which is why it's looks longer in Google.
You missed the point - it's dangerous and kids might be encouraged to bike or walk - especially if they hang out at Rio at night after school.
But if you dont think that could ever happen and kids are wise enough never to walk up Omega Drive to cross the bridge heading home, nothing I can really say.
Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.
That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.
I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.
People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"
Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.
People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.
This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:
When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?
No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.
You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.
In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.
Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.
Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.
MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.
+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.
Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?
Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.
There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.
South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.
Some of it is.
It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.
Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.
28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?
QO students cross 28 all the time.
Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.
There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.
I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.
That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.
No one from King Farm is walking to RM either...
Of course, King farm is more than 2 miles away from RM.
Anyway, expecting kids to walk 2 miles each way is unreasonable too. It really should be reduced to 1 mile.
No, Kings Farm is within a 2 mile radius of Crown. It's 2.5 miles by walking, bicycle or car; which is why it's looks longer in Google.
You missed the point - it's dangerous and kids might be encouraged to bike or walk - especially if they hang out at Rio at night after school.
But if you dont think that could ever happen and kids are wise enough never to walk up Omega Drive to cross the bridge heading home, nothing I can really say.
Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.
That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.
I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.
People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"
Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.
People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.
This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:
When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?
No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.
You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.
In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.
Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.
Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.
MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.
+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.
Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?
Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.
There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.
South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.
Some of it is.
It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.
Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.
28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?
QO students cross 28 all the time.
Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.
There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.
I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.
That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.
No one from King Farm is walking to RM either...
Of course, King farm is more than 2 miles away from RM.
Anyway, expecting kids to walk 2 miles each way is unreasonable too. It really should be reduced to 1 mile.
No, Kings Farm is within a 2 mile radius of Crown. It's 2.5 miles by walking, bicycle or car; which is why it's looks longer in Google.
You missed the point - it's dangerous and kids might be encouraged to bike or walk - especially if they hang out at Rio at night after school.
But if you dont think that could ever happen and kids are wise enough never to walk up Omega Drive to cross the bridge heading home, nothing I can really say.
MCPS uses walking distance, not radius.
I wonder how they determine the walking route. Google map sometimes give shorter walking route but has to walk through some weird private paths which are not paved roads
Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.
That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.
I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.
People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"
Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.
People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.
This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:
When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?
No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.
You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.
In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.
Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.
Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.
MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.
+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.
Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?
Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.
There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.
South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.
Some of it is.
It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.
Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.
28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?
QO students cross 28 all the time.
Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.
There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.
I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.
That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.
No one from King Farm is walking to RM either...
Of course, King farm is more than 2 miles away from RM.
Anyway, expecting kids to walk 2 miles each way is unreasonable too. It really should be reduced to 1 mile.
No, Kings Farm is within a 2 mile radius of Crown. It's 2.5 miles by walking, bicycle or car; which is why it's looks longer in Google.
You missed the point - it's dangerous and kids might be encouraged to bike or walk - especially if they hang out at Rio at night after school.
But if you dont think that could ever happen and kids are wise enough never to walk up Omega Drive to cross the bridge heading home, nothing I can really say.
MCPS uses walking distance, not radius.
I wonder how they determine the walking route. Google map sometimes give shorter walking route but has to walk through some weird private paths which are not paved roads
In the 20 years I've been using Google Maps for finding walkable routes I haven't seen that yet.
Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.
That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.
I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.
People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"
Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.
People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.
This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:
When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?
No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.
You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.
In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.
Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.
Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.
MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.
+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.
Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?
Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.
There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.
South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.
Some of it is.
It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.
Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.
28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?
QO students cross 28 all the time.
Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.
There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.
I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.
That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.
No one from King Farm is walking to RM either...
Of course, King farm is more than 2 miles away from RM.
Anyway, expecting kids to walk 2 miles each way is unreasonable too. It really should be reduced to 1 mile.
No, Kings Farm is within a 2 mile radius of Crown. It's 2.5 miles by walking, bicycle or car; which is why it's looks longer in Google.
You missed the point - it's dangerous and kids might be encouraged to bike or walk - especially if they hang out at Rio at night after school.
But if you dont think that could ever happen and kids are wise enough never to walk up Omega Drive to cross the bridge heading home, nothing I can really say.
MCPS uses walking distance, not radius.
I wonder how they determine the walking route. Google map sometimes give shorter walking route but has to walk through some weird private paths which are not paved roads
In the 20 years I've been using Google Maps for finding walkable routes I haven't seen that yet.
Many posters here are looking for excuses not solutions.
Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.
That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.
I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.
People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"
Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.
People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.
This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:
When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?
No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.
You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.
In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.
Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.
Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.
MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.
+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.
Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?
Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.
There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.
South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.
Some of it is.
It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.
Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.
28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?
QO students cross 28 all the time.
Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.
There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.
I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.
That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.
No one from King Farm is walking to RM either...
Of course, King farm is more than 2 miles away from RM.
Anyway, expecting kids to walk 2 miles each way is unreasonable too. It really should be reduced to 1 mile.
No, Kings Farm is within a 2 mile radius of Crown. It's 2.5 miles by walking, bicycle or car; which is why it's looks longer in Google.
You missed the point - it's dangerous and kids might be encouraged to bike or walk - especially if they hang out at Rio at night after school.
But if you dont think that could ever happen and kids are wise enough never to walk up Omega Drive to cross the bridge heading home, nothing I can really say.
MCPS uses walking distance, not radius.
I wonder how they determine the walking route. Google map sometimes give shorter walking route but has to walk through some weird private paths which are not paved roads
In the 20 years I've been using Google Maps for finding walkable routes I haven't seen that yet.
DP. It's a thing. For example, try the Google Maps walking route between MLK M.S. and Waters Landing E.S. in Germantown.
Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.
That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.
I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.
People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"
Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.
People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.
This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:
When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?
No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.
You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.
In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.
Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.
Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.
MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.
+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.
Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?
Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.
There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.
South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.
Some of it is.
It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.
Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.
28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?
QO students cross 28 all the time.
Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.
There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.
I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.
That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.
No one from King Farm is walking to RM either...
Of course, King farm is more than 2 miles away from RM.
Anyway, expecting kids to walk 2 miles each way is unreasonable too. It really should be reduced to 1 mile.
No, Kings Farm is within a 2 mile radius of Crown. It's 2.5 miles by walking, bicycle or car; which is why it's looks longer in Google.
You missed the point - it's dangerous and kids might be encouraged to bike or walk - especially if they hang out at Rio at night after school.
But if you dont think that could ever happen and kids are wise enough never to walk up Omega Drive to cross the bridge heading home, nothing I can really say.
MCPS uses walking distance, not radius.
I wonder how they determine the walking route. Google map sometimes give shorter walking route but has to walk through some weird private paths which are not paved roads
In the 20 years I've been using Google Maps for finding walkable routes I haven't seen that yet.
DP. It's a thing. For example, try the Google Maps walking route between MLK M.S. and Waters Landing E.S. in Germantown.
^^^though I wouldn't call them "weird" private paths, they're just plain paved paths.
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