New boundary study for Churchill, Clarksburg, Damascus, Gaithersburg, RM, Northwest, Poolesville, QO, SV, WM, Wootton

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.

That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.

I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.

People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"

Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.

People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.

This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:

SVHS- 49.9%
Gaithersburg- 57.6%
Watkins Mill- 64.4%

Seneca Valley High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 51.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0104/2023

Gaithersburg High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 55.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0551/2023

Watkins Mills High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 58.9%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0545/2023

When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?

No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.

You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.

In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.

Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.

Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.

MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.

+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.

Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?

Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/WoottonHS.pdf

There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.

South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.

Some of it is.

It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.

Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.

28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?

QO students cross 28 all the time.

Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.

There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.

I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.

That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.

Why is it "insane" there but not in similar situations in other areas of the county?

Other areas have 7 lane wide HW to cross?

Yes, it's 8 lanes to cross MD28 at Quince Orchard HS. Yes, MCPS expects QO students to do that. Yes, QO students do that.

The roads near QO have significantly less traffic and not as dangerous as near crown.

There are many smaller roads MCPS deemed unsafe to walk. So don’t assume the highways crown HS connect to are definitely walkable, even if some unsafe roads in other HS have been designated walkable.

You are free to take the position that 28 at Quince Orchard is safer than 28 at Medical Center Way and Omega Drive, a whole three and a half miles away. And I, as someone who has actually frequently crossed 28 at both intersections on foot, am free to say: no, not in my experience.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.

That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.

I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.

People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"

Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.

People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.

This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:

SVHS- 49.9%
Gaithersburg- 57.6%
Watkins Mill- 64.4%

Seneca Valley High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 51.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0104/2023

Gaithersburg High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 55.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0551/2023

Watkins Mills High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 58.9%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0545/2023

When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?

No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.

You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.

In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.

Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.

Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.

MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.

+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.

Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?

Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/WoottonHS.pdf

There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.

South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.

Some of it is.

It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.

Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.

28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?

QO students cross 28 all the time.

Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.

There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.

Crown should only be walkable for crown and Rio people. That part of 28 has too much traffic and high speed. Other parts of 2 mile radius would all take 40 min to 1 hour to walk with multiple traffic lights to stop.

Now I know you're making s up.

1. Route 28 runs all the way from Point-of-Rocks to past Leisure World / Olney, so you don't even refer to the correct street name.
2. Your "2 mile radius" assertion is just wrong. There's plenty of residential areas within a two mile radius of Crown that is safely walkable, so it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about.

1. Keywest Ave , not sure why you mention olney.
2. Name one that’s actually safe that you will let your own kids walk everyday.

In other words you don't even know that 28 extends past Leisure World? Let me guess - a Silver Spring or Hungerford CO troll? Here's a news flash.
Nothing near Crown is as dangerous to the car doughnuts that Silver Spring has.

QO: QO is at the corner of Darnestown and Quince Orchard Road and kids walk it all time to head to McDonalds. You would also know it's heavily patroled since the Montgomery County police HQ is up the street.

Crown: I've been visiting Rio since long before it had a safety rail around the lake. To the north, it's not possible to cross 270 on foot and even car traffic can be dangerous when traffic stacks (goes from high speed to low speeds quickly. With one exception. There's a new apartment complex just off of 370/270 and they built a nice overpass there that folks frequently walk and safe since it's not at the off-ramp level. That provides access for walkers near Muddy Branch. To the west there is also the Downtown Crown area which has ample walker housing. To the Southwest (Key West area) there is housing by the hospital. To the South at the Shady Grove 270 on/off ramp - that is the dangerous part near Crown. You've got cars coming on and off 270 with low visibility turns. If you try to bus or have kids walk over the Shady Grove 270 overpass, I believe there's a high chance of an accident if there is ice or snow and it would be very dangerous for kids to walk. I've seen pedestrian adults heading to stores nearly get hit that way by cars trying to get on and off 270.

IMHO, Crown can safely accomodate anything in the 2 mi radius as long as it doesn't involve crossing 270 at Exit 9, or the Shady Grove overpass at Exit 8.

[Anonymous]

That Omega Drive off ramp from 270 to Fields Road is bad, and it's going to be right by the Crown high school.

There better also be a new sidewalk on the west side of Omega Drive, where currently there is no sidewalk.

Anyone coming from the west side of Sam Eig will cross at Diamondback or Fields (or in between). People are not going to go out of their way to cross Sam Eig at the overpass at Washingtonian Boulevard.

The Shady Grove overpass over 270 is terrible for pedestrians.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.

That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.

I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.

People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"

Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.

People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.

This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:

SVHS- 49.9%
Gaithersburg- 57.6%
Watkins Mill- 64.4%

Seneca Valley High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 51.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0104/2023

Gaithersburg High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 55.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0551/2023

Watkins Mills High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 58.9%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0545/2023

When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?

No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.

You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.

In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.

Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.

Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.

MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.

+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.

Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?

Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/WoottonHS.pdf

There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.

South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.

Some of it is.

It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.

Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.

28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?

QO students cross 28 all the time.

Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.

There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.

I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.

That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.

No one from King Farm is walking to RM either...

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.

That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.

I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.

People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"

Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.

People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.

This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:

SVHS- 49.9%
Gaithersburg- 57.6%
Watkins Mill- 64.4%

Seneca Valley High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 51.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0104/2023

Gaithersburg High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 55.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0551/2023

Watkins Mills High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 58.9%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0545/2023

When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?

No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.

You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.

In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.

Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.

Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.

MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.

+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.

Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?

Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/WoottonHS.pdf

There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.

South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.

Some of it is.

It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.

Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.

28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?

QO students cross 28 all the time.

Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.

There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.

I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.

That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.

No one from King Farm is walking to RM either...

Of course, King farm is more than 2 miles away from RM.

Anyway, expecting kids to walk 2 miles each way is unreasonable too. It really should be reduced to 1 mile.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.

That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.

I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.

People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"

Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.

People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.

This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:

SVHS- 49.9%
Gaithersburg- 57.6%
Watkins Mill- 64.4%

Seneca Valley High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 51.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0104/2023

Gaithersburg High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 55.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0551/2023

Watkins Mills High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 58.9%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0545/2023

When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?

No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.

You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.

In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.

Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.

Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.

MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.

+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.

Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?

Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/WoottonHS.pdf

There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.

South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.

Some of it is.

It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.

Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.

28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?

QO students cross 28 all the time.

Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.

There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.

I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.

That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.

No one from King Farm is walking to RM either...

Of course, King farm is more than 2 miles away from RM.

Anyway, expecting kids to walk 2 miles each way is unreasonable too. It really should be reduced to 1 mile.

High school kids can't walk 40 minutes twice a day (or ride a bike 15 minutes twice a day)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.

That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.

I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.

People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"

Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.

People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.

This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:

SVHS- 49.9%
Gaithersburg- 57.6%
Watkins Mill- 64.4%

Seneca Valley High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 51.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0104/2023

Gaithersburg High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 55.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0551/2023

Watkins Mills High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 58.9%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0545/2023

When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?

No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.

You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.

In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.

Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.

Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.

MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.

+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.

Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?

Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/WoottonHS.pdf

There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.

South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.

Some of it is.

It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.

Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.

28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?

QO students cross 28 all the time.

Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.

There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.

I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.

That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.

No one from King Farm is walking to RM either...

Of course, King farm is more than 2 miles away from RM.

Anyway, expecting kids to walk 2 miles each way is unreasonable too. It really should be reduced to 1 mile.

High school kids can't walk 40 minutes twice a day (or ride a bike 15 minutes twice a day)?

Larla might sweat!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.

That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.

I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.

People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"

Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.

People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.

This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:

SVHS- 49.9%
Gaithersburg- 57.6%
Watkins Mill- 64.4%

Seneca Valley High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 51.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0104/2023

Gaithersburg High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 55.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0551/2023

Watkins Mills High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 58.9%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0545/2023

When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?

No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.

You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.

In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.

Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.

Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.

MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.

+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.

Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?

Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/WoottonHS.pdf

There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.

South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.

Some of it is.

It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.

Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.

28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?

QO students cross 28 all the time.

Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.

There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.

I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.

That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.

No one from King Farm is walking to RM either...

Of course, King farm is more than 2 miles away from RM.

Anyway, expecting kids to walk 2 miles each way is unreasonable too. It really should be reduced to 1 mile.

High school kids can't walk 40 minutes twice a day (or ride a bike 15 minutes twice a day)?

Who spends 1.5 hour walking to school? Do you walk that long to work?? Like a third world country? What a shame that US can’t offer bus to these poor kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.

That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.

I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.

People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"

Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.

People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.

This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:

SVHS- 49.9%
Gaithersburg- 57.6%
Watkins Mill- 64.4%

Seneca Valley High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 51.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0104/2023

Gaithersburg High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 55.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0551/2023

Watkins Mills High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 58.9%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0545/2023

When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?

No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.

You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.

In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.

Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.

Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.

MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.

+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.

Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?

Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/WoottonHS.pdf

There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.

South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.

Some of it is.

It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.

Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.

28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?

QO students cross 28 all the time.

Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.

There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.

I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.

That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.

No one from King Farm is walking to RM either...

Of course, King farm is more than 2 miles away from RM.

Anyway, expecting kids to walk 2 miles each way is unreasonable too. It really should be reduced to 1 mile.

High school kids can't walk 40 minutes twice a day (or ride a bike 15 minutes twice a day)?

HW 28 is definitely not for biking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.

That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.

I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.

People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"

Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.

People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.

This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:

SVHS- 49.9%
Gaithersburg- 57.6%
Watkins Mill- 64.4%

Seneca Valley High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 51.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0104/2023

Gaithersburg High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 55.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0551/2023

Watkins Mills High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 58.9%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0545/2023

When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?

No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.

You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.

In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.

Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.

Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.

MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.

+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.

Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?

Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/WoottonHS.pdf

There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.

South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.

Some of it is.

It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.

Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.

28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?

QO students cross 28 all the time.

Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.

There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.

I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.

That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.

No one from King Farm is walking to RM either...

Of course, King farm is more than 2 miles away from RM.

Anyway, expecting kids to walk 2 miles each way is unreasonable too. It really should be reduced to 1 mile.

Well on average many people will live between the two and 1 mile seems pretty reasonable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.

That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.

I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.

People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"

Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.

People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.

This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:

SVHS- 49.9%
Gaithersburg- 57.6%
Watkins Mill- 64.4%

Seneca Valley High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 51.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0104/2023

Gaithersburg High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 55.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0551/2023

Watkins Mills High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 58.9%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0545/2023

When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?

No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.

You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.

In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.

Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.

Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.

MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.

+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.

Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?

Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/WoottonHS.pdf

There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.

South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.

Some of it is.

It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.

Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.

28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?

QO students cross 28 all the time.

Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.

There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.

I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.

That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.

No one from King Farm is walking to RM either...

Of course, King farm is more than 2 miles away from RM.

Anyway, expecting kids to walk 2 miles each way is unreasonable too. It really should be reduced to 1 mile.

High school kids can't walk 40 minutes twice a day (or ride a bike 15 minutes twice a day)?

HW 28 is definitely not for biking.

But hardly an insurmountable obstacle if sending kids across makes the most sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.

That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.

I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.

People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"

Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.

People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.

This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:

SVHS- 49.9%
Gaithersburg- 57.6%
Watkins Mill- 64.4%

Seneca Valley High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 51.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0104/2023

Gaithersburg High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 55.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0551/2023

Watkins Mills High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 58.9%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0545/2023

When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?

No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.

You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.

In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.

Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.

Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.

MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.

+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.

Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?

Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/WoottonHS.pdf

There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.

South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.

Some of it is.

It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.

Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.

28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?

QO students cross 28 all the time.

Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.

There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.

I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.

That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.

No one from King Farm is walking to RM either...

Of course, King farm is more than 2 miles away from RM.

Anyway, expecting kids to walk 2 miles each way is unreasonable too. It really should be reduced to 1 mile.

High school kids can't walk 40 minutes twice a day (or ride a bike 15 minutes twice a day)?

Who spends 1.5 hour walking to school? Do you walk that long to work?? Like a third world country? What a shame that US can’t offer bus to these poor kids.

It takes you 90 minutes to walk 2 miles?

But you're right, a lot of kids in the walk zone, who don't want to walk the whole way there or the whole way back, take the bus instead. Fortunately Montgomery County has the "kids ride free" program for RideOn and Metrobus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.

That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.

I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.

People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"

Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.

People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.

This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:

SVHS- 49.9%
Gaithersburg- 57.6%
Watkins Mill- 64.4%

Seneca Valley High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 51.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0104/2023

Gaithersburg High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 55.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0551/2023

Watkins Mills High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 58.9%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0545/2023

When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?

No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.

You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.

In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.

Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.

Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.

MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.

+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.

Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?

Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/WoottonHS.pdf

There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.

South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.

Some of it is.

It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.

Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.

28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?

QO students cross 28 all the time.

Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.

There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.

I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.

That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.

No one from King Farm is walking to RM either...

Of course, King farm is more than 2 miles away from RM.

Anyway, expecting kids to walk 2 miles each way is unreasonable too. It really should be reduced to 1 mile.

High school kids can't walk 40 minutes twice a day (or ride a bike 15 minutes twice a day)?

HW 28 is definitely not for biking.

People bike on 28. Including kids. The sidewalk on one side of 28 is a bike path, all the way from QO HS to 270. Keep an eye out, you'll see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.

That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.

I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.

People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"

Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.

People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.

This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:

SVHS- 49.9%
Gaithersburg- 57.6%
Watkins Mill- 64.4%

Seneca Valley High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 51.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0104/2023

Gaithersburg High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 55.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0551/2023

Watkins Mills High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 58.9%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0545/2023

When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?

No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.

You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.

In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.

Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.

Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.

MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.

+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.

Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?

Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/WoottonHS.pdf

There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.

South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.

Some of it is.

It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.

Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.

28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?

QO students cross 28 all the time.

Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.

There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.

I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.

That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.

No one from King Farm is walking to RM either...

Of course, King farm is more than 2 miles away from RM.

Anyway, expecting kids to walk 2 miles each way is unreasonable too. It really should be reduced to 1 mile.

High school kids can't walk 40 minutes twice a day (or ride a bike 15 minutes twice a day)?

Who spends 1.5 hour walking to school? Do you walk that long to work?? Like a third world country? What a shame that US can’t offer bus to these poor kids.

It takes you 90 minutes to walk 2 miles?

But you're right, a lot of kids in the walk zone, who don't want to walk the whole way there or the whole way back, take the bus instead. Fortunately Montgomery County has the "kids ride free" program for RideOn and Metrobus.

90 min a day. That’s a lot of time to waste for high schoolers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.

That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.

I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.

People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"

Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.

People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.

This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:

SVHS- 49.9%
Gaithersburg- 57.6%
Watkins Mill- 64.4%

Seneca Valley High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 51.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0104/2023

Gaithersburg High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 55.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0551/2023

Watkins Mills High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 58.9%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0545/2023

When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?

No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.

You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.

In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.

Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.

Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.

MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.

+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.

Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?

Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/WoottonHS.pdf

There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.

South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.

Some of it is.

It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.

Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.

28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?

QO students cross 28 all the time.

Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.

There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.

I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.

That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.

No one from King Farm is walking to RM either...

Of course, King farm is more than 2 miles away from RM.

Anyway, expecting kids to walk 2 miles each way is unreasonable too. It really should be reduced to 1 mile.

High school kids can't walk 40 minutes twice a day (or ride a bike 15 minutes twice a day)?

Who spends 1.5 hour walking to school? Do you walk that long to work?? Like a third world country? What a shame that US can’t offer bus to these poor kids.

It takes you 90 minutes to walk 2 miles?

But you're right, a lot of kids in the walk zone, who don't want to walk the whole way there or the whole way back, take the bus instead. Fortunately Montgomery County has the "kids ride free" program for RideOn and Metrobus.

I think they mean 45 minutes each way.

Don’t forget that buses take longer than just the ride. My son gets on the school bus at one of the later stops. He has to leave the house at 7:45 am to catch the bus that comes at around 7:52, since it takes a couple minutes to walk to the stop and the bus could always come early. He gets to school at 8:10. That means, he leaves the house at 7:45 to get to school at 8:10, which is 25 minutes door to door. Again, he has a late stop. The first stop arrives at 7:35, so he would have to get out of the house at 7:27 to get to school at 8:10, which is 33 minutes, approaching the 45 minutes quoted above.