I hate Trump, but I get why a huge part of middle America loves him

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a typical educated and wealthy DC-area striver. Atheist, support women's right to choose, value the diversity of cultures in this world, etc. I wouldn't say no to a tax cut, lol. I'm going to be good whoever gets elected.

We gotta face facts, though. Most of America is not like DC. It's hugely white, under-educated, under-employed people, who have been truly screwed over by progressive policies.

They have to compete with millions upon millions of lower cost illegal migrants flooding across the borders. They have been penalized by the color of their skin when applying to college and jobs. Suicide, depression, opioids, wars they have to fight and die in...it has gotten quite bad.

Once upon a time, democrats valued this massive part of America. Do they still? Can they?

and it would be so EASY for Democrats to win elections but instead of helping the deplorables Democrats focus on expanding immigration.

stupid

Bullshit. We subsidize the hell out of the deplorables. Most of them would not have all this free time and money to give to Trump without some kind of government assistance.

This is actually the problem. Middle America doesn't want welfare. They want to be able to work to support their families as previous generations did. Saying, "what's it to you, your SNAP check bounced or something?" demonstrates the enormous disconnect between elites and the working class.

Just stop gaslighting. Trump’s people aren’t poor and they aren’t mistreated. They all have the jobs and the lifestyles and the standards of living they chose and earned. Nobody held them back. We subsidize their healthcare and retirement and education and water, sewer, and transportation infrastructure so they can live in a 95% white rural community or small town or exurb with low taxes and few services, just the way they like it. Every one of them is exactly who, what, and where they chose to be. That’s why all their grievances are imaginary problems and conspiracy theories. There real lives are boring and uneventful.

This so perfectly encapsulates so many Trump supporters. I'll add that MANY Trump supporters live in very blue areas (just look at Jan. 6 geolocation data), benefiting from good public schools, infrastructure, and healthcare. They don't like that people who look "different" (code, non-white/female, gay) are having success. Trump supporters have bought into the myth that THOSE PEOPLE got a hand up/diversity hire/takers etc. They just can't imagine that non-white men could have success. And they ignore that EVERY Black parent has to have The Talk with their sons, women make up are a tiny fraction of top executives, and Latinos, especially women, are often assumed to be uneducated and possibly illegal.

Sorry, it really comes down to the feeling that THEY are getting shivved because Murica is for White folks.

How does that explain the support Trump has among Latino and Black voters?

In any event, I find the myopia in this thread about who Trump supporters are to be fascinating. It’s as if you’ve all forgotten that 2016 happened. I don’t think it’s as much of a foregone conclusion that he will win as it was by summer 2016. People hate Trump more than they did in 2016 and that might motivate voters. J6 and Trump’s dementia might dissuade some potential Trump voters. But the flip side is that a lot of people of all races are alienated from the Democrats now. Reproductive rights might drive some voters but there are also plenty of disaffected voters alienated by crime (the repeated “it’s down” doesn’t help), immigration, Israel policy, some aspects of transgender rights, job losses, inflation, and lingering resentment about covid policies. It’s a complex picture and at this point I don’t think it’s as clear as it was summer 2016.

Yet all you just keep on screaming “deplorables” over and over. It’s nuts.

Trump is the essence of deplorable.

Trump only became prominent because of his birther movement against our first Black president.

Trump refused to apologize for taking out four full-page ads in NYC newspapers calling for the death penalty of the Central Park 5, who were exonerated.

Trump defended his comment about "very fine people" at the Charlottesville white supremacist rally.

Who CARES MY GOD.

We all know Trump is disgusting. That’s not the point of this discussion! Boy do I hope the Biden strategists have actual excellent plans for marketing him to swing states.

PP was talking about Black voters flocking to Trump. I’m just saying that I would think/hope many Black voters may have decent memories. He has repeatedly told them what he thinks of them, so why not rehash who he really is. But, sure let’s blame the Dems marketing. To people who voted for NOTHING in 2020—no GOP platform, save the whims of the president.

I cannot stand this argument. The economy is strong and is benefiting the middle class. Nothing will convince them. Hillary talked policy ad nauseum. She’s a total wonk who won the popular vote, but in the end that didn’t matter.

The media scared minorities and warned black people that Trump would be a draconian and brutal return to olden days and that didn’t happen. It turns out black unemployment was a record low in the Trump years due to immigration crackdowns, the black poverty rate decreased for the first time since 2002 during his administration, black homeownership increased significantly with the low interest rates cut, black businesses and entrepreneurship were significantly helped by the PPP loans, Chicago violence got better after peak Obama years due to Trump sending national guards/feds to Chicago. The media bashed him for this but that just shows that black lives do matter to him. Obama couldn’t care less and hasn’t been to Chicago since has he? He also granted clemency and released more African Americans from jail than Obama, and signed the First Step Act -the first real prison/ criminal justice reform correcting the Biden /Clinton 1994 acts despite the media criticising his work with Kim K on prison reform . He also provided more funding to HBCUS who were begging Obama for money for years. Many HBCUS went bankrupt during the post recession Obama years and they couldn’t get any piece of the pie (stimulus money) because Obamas administration didn’t divvy it up which is a shame because many black colleges were huge donation drivers for Obamas campaign.

Ridiculous. The reason people are so upset about Trump and Biden being the likely nominees has nothing to do with skin color. They are too old to be trusted with the demands of the most powerful job in the world until 2029 and most people realize that. It's as simple as this.

BoThSiDeS!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a typical educated and wealthy DC-area striver. Atheist, support women's right to choose, value the diversity of cultures in this world, etc. I wouldn't say no to a tax cut, lol. I'm going to be good whoever gets elected.

We gotta face facts, though. Most of America is not like DC. It's hugely white, under-educated, under-employed people, who have been truly screwed over by progressive policies.

They have to compete with millions upon millions of lower cost illegal migrants flooding across the borders. They have been penalized by the color of their skin when applying to college and jobs. Suicide, depression, opioids, wars they have to fight and die in...it has gotten quite bad.

Once upon a time, democrats valued this massive part of America. Do they still? Can they?

and it would be so EASY for Democrats to win elections but instead of helping the deplorables Democrats focus on expanding immigration.

stupid

Bullshit. We subsidize the hell out of the deplorables. Most of them would not have all this free time and money to give to Trump without some kind of government assistance.

This is actually the problem. Middle America doesn't want welfare. They want to be able to work to support their families as previous generations did. Saying, "what's it to you, your SNAP check bounced or something?" demonstrates the enormous disconnect between elites and the working class.

Just stop gaslighting. Trump’s people aren’t poor and they aren’t mistreated. They all have the jobs and the lifestyles and the standards of living they chose and earned. Nobody held them back. We subsidize their healthcare and retirement and education and water, sewer, and transportation infrastructure so they can live in a 95% white rural community or small town or exurb with low taxes and few services, just the way they like it. Every one of them is exactly who, what, and where they chose to be. That’s why all their grievances are imaginary problems and conspiracy theories. There real lives are boring and uneventful.

This so perfectly encapsulates so many Trump supporters. I'll add that MANY Trump supporters live in very blue areas (just look at Jan. 6 geolocation data), benefiting from good public schools, infrastructure, and healthcare. They don't like that people who look "different" (code, non-white/female, gay) are having success. Trump supporters have bought into the myth that THOSE PEOPLE got a hand up/diversity hire/takers etc. They just can't imagine that non-white men could have success. And they ignore that EVERY Black parent has to have The Talk with their sons, women make up are a tiny fraction of top executives, and Latinos, especially women, are often assumed to be uneducated and possibly illegal.

Sorry, it really comes down to the feeling that THEY are getting shivved because Murica is for White folks.

How does that explain the support Trump has among Latino and Black voters?

In any event, I find the myopia in this thread about who Trump supporters are to be fascinating. It’s as if you’ve all forgotten that 2016 happened. I don’t think it’s as much of a foregone conclusion that he will win as it was by summer 2016. People hate Trump more than they did in 2016 and that might motivate voters. J6 and Trump’s dementia might dissuade some potential Trump voters. But the flip side is that a lot of people of all races are alienated from the Democrats now. Reproductive rights might drive some voters but there are also plenty of disaffected voters alienated by crime (the repeated “it’s down” doesn’t help), immigration, Israel policy, some aspects of transgender rights, job losses, inflation, and lingering resentment about covid policies. It’s a complex picture and at this point I don’t think it’s as clear as it was summer 2016.

Yet all you just keep on screaming “deplorables” over and over. It’s nuts.

Trump is the essence of deplorable.

Trump only became prominent because of his birther movement against our first Black president.

Trump refused to apologize for taking out four full-page ads in NYC newspapers calling for the death penalty of the Central Park 5, who were exonerated.

Trump defended his comment about "very fine people" at the Charlottesville white supremacist rally.

Who CARES MY GOD.

We all know Trump is disgusting. That’s not the point of this discussion! Boy do I hope the Biden strategists have actual excellent plans for marketing him to swing states.

PP was talking about Black voters flocking to Trump. I’m just saying that I would think/hope many Black voters may have decent memories. He has repeatedly told them what he thinks of them, so why not rehash who he really is. But, sure let’s blame the Dems marketing. To people who voted for NOTHING in 2020—no GOP platform, save the whims of the president.

I cannot stand this argument. The economy is strong and is benefiting the middle class. Nothing will convince them. Hillary talked policy ad nauseum. She’s a total wonk who won the popular vote, but in the end that didn’t matter.

The media scared minorities and warned black people that Trump would be a draconian and brutal return to olden days and that didn’t happen. It turns out black unemployment was a record low in the Trump years due to immigration crackdowns, the black poverty rate decreased for the first time since 2002 during his administration, black homeownership increased significantly with the low interest rates cut, black businesses and entrepreneurship were significantly helped by the PPP loans, Chicago violence got better after peak Obama years due to Trump sending national guards/feds to Chicago. The media bashed him for this but that just shows that black lives do matter to him. Obama couldn’t care less and hasn’t been to Chicago since has he? He also granted clemency and released more African Americans from jail than Obama, and signed the First Step Act -the first real prison/ criminal justice reform correcting the Biden /Clinton 1994 acts despite the media criticising his work with Kim K on prison reform . He also provided more funding to HBCUS who were begging Obama for money for years. Many HBCUS went bankrupt during the post recession Obama years and they couldn’t get any piece of the pie (stimulus money) because Obamas administration didn’t divvy it up which is a shame because many black colleges were huge donation drivers for Obamas campaign.

Ridiculous. The reason people are so upset about Trump and Biden being the likely nominees has nothing to do with skin color. They are too old to be trusted with the demands of the most powerful job in the world until 2029 and most people realize that. It's as simple as this.

BoThSiDeS!

Exactly, you'd think one of them would take this opportunity to completely destroy the other side by running a viable candidate but they instead prefer to play down to the level of the competition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a typical educated and wealthy DC-area striver. Atheist, support women's right to choose, value the diversity of cultures in this world, etc. I wouldn't say no to a tax cut, lol. I'm going to be good whoever gets elected.

We gotta face facts, though. Most of America is not like DC. It's hugely white, under-educated, under-employed people, who have been truly screwed over by progressive policies.

They have to compete with millions upon millions of lower cost illegal migrants flooding across the borders. They have been penalized by the color of their skin when applying to college and jobs. Suicide, depression, opioids, wars they have to fight and die in...it has gotten quite bad.

Once upon a time, democrats valued this massive part of America. Do they still? Can they?

and it would be so EASY for Democrats to win elections but instead of helping the deplorables Democrats focus on expanding immigration.

stupid

Bullshit. We subsidize the hell out of the deplorables. Most of them would not have all this free time and money to give to Trump without some kind of government assistance.

This is actually the problem. Middle America doesn't want welfare. They want to be able to work to support their families as previous generations did. Saying, "what's it to you, your SNAP check bounced or something?" demonstrates the enormous disconnect between elites and the working class.

Just stop gaslighting. Trump’s people aren’t poor and they aren’t mistreated. They all have the jobs and the lifestyles and the standards of living they chose and earned. Nobody held them back. We subsidize their healthcare and retirement and education and water, sewer, and transportation infrastructure so they can live in a 95% white rural community or small town or exurb with low taxes and few services, just the way they like it. Every one of them is exactly who, what, and where they chose to be. That’s why all their grievances are imaginary problems and conspiracy theories. There real lives are boring and uneventful.

This so perfectly encapsulates so many Trump supporters. I'll add that MANY Trump supporters live in very blue areas (just look at Jan. 6 geolocation data), benefiting from good public schools, infrastructure, and healthcare. They don't like that people who look "different" (code, non-white/female, gay) are having success. Trump supporters have bought into the myth that THOSE PEOPLE got a hand up/diversity hire/takers etc. They just can't imagine that non-white men could have success. And they ignore that EVERY Black parent has to have The Talk with their sons, women make up are a tiny fraction of top executives, and Latinos, especially women, are often assumed to be uneducated and possibly illegal.

Sorry, it really comes down to the feeling that THEY are getting shivved because Murica is for White folks.

How does that explain the support Trump has among Latino and Black voters?

In any event, I find the myopia in this thread about who Trump supporters are to be fascinating. It’s as if you’ve all forgotten that 2016 happened. I don’t think it’s as much of a foregone conclusion that he will win as it was by summer 2016. People hate Trump more than they did in 2016 and that might motivate voters. J6 and Trump’s dementia might dissuade some potential Trump voters. But the flip side is that a lot of people of all races are alienated from the Democrats now. Reproductive rights might drive some voters but there are also plenty of disaffected voters alienated by crime (the repeated “it’s down” doesn’t help), immigration, Israel policy, some aspects of transgender rights, job losses, inflation, and lingering resentment about covid policies. It’s a complex picture and at this point I don’t think it’s as clear as it was summer 2016.

Yet all you just keep on screaming “deplorables” over and over. It’s nuts.

Trump is the essence of deplorable.

Trump only became prominent because of his birther movement against our first Black president.

Trump refused to apologize for taking out four full-page ads in NYC newspapers calling for the death penalty of the Central Park 5, who were exonerated.

Trump defended his comment about "very fine people" at the Charlottesville white supremacist rally.

Who CARES MY GOD.

We all know Trump is disgusting. That’s not the point of this discussion! Boy do I hope the Biden strategists have actual excellent plans for marketing him to swing states.

PP was talking about Black voters flocking to Trump. I’m just saying that I would think/hope many Black voters may have decent memories. He has repeatedly told them what he thinks of them, so why not rehash who he really is. But, sure let’s blame the Dems marketing. To people who voted for NOTHING in 2020—no GOP platform, save the whims of the president.

I cannot stand this argument. The economy is strong and is benefiting the middle class. Nothing will convince them. Hillary talked policy ad nauseum. She’s a total wonk who won the popular vote, but in the end that didn’t matter.

The media scared minorities and warned black people that Trump would be a draconian and brutal return to olden days and that didn’t happen. It turns out black unemployment was a record low in the Trump years due to immigration crackdowns, the black poverty rate decreased for the first time since 2002 during his administration, black homeownership increased significantly with the low interest rates cut, black businesses and entrepreneurship were significantly helped by the PPP loans, Chicago violence got better after peak Obama years due to Trump sending national guards/feds to Chicago. The media bashed him for this but that just shows that black lives do matter to him. Obama couldn’t care less and hasn’t been to Chicago since has he? He also granted clemency and released more African Americans from jail than Obama, and signed the First Step Act -the first real prison/ criminal justice reform correcting the Biden /Clinton 1994 acts despite the media criticising his work with Kim K on prison reform . He also provided more funding to HBCUS who were begging Obama for money for years. Many HBCUS went bankrupt during the post recession Obama years and they couldn’t get any piece of the pie (stimulus money) because Obamas administration didn’t divvy it up which is a shame because many black colleges were huge donation drivers for Obamas campaign.

Ridiculous. The reason people are so upset about Trump and Biden being the likely nominees has nothing to do with skin color. They are too old to be trusted with the demands of the most powerful job in the world until 2029 and most people realize that. It's as simple as this.

BoThSiDeS!

One side is offering flavorless oatmeal and the other side is offering tire rims and arsenic. Both sides are disappointing dinner options!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a typical educated and wealthy DC-area striver. Atheist, support women's right to choose, value the diversity of cultures in this world, etc. I wouldn't say no to a tax cut, lol. I'm going to be good whoever gets elected.

We gotta face facts, though. Most of America is not like DC. It's hugely white, under-educated, under-employed people, who have been truly screwed over by progressive policies.

They have to compete with millions upon millions of lower cost illegal migrants flooding across the borders. They have been penalized by the color of their skin when applying to college and jobs. Suicide, depression, opioids, wars they have to fight and die in...it has gotten quite bad.

Once upon a time, democrats valued this massive part of America. Do they still? Can they?

and it would be so EASY for Democrats to win elections but instead of helping the deplorables Democrats focus on expanding immigration.

stupid

Bullshit. We subsidize the hell out of the deplorables. Most of them would not have all this free time and money to give to Trump without some kind of government assistance.

This is actually the problem. Middle America doesn't want welfare. They want to be able to work to support their families as previous generations did. Saying, "what's it to you, your SNAP check bounced or something?" demonstrates the enormous disconnect between elites and the working class.

Just stop gaslighting. Trump’s people aren’t poor and they aren’t mistreated. They all have the jobs and the lifestyles and the standards of living they chose and earned. Nobody held them back. We subsidize their healthcare and retirement and education and water, sewer, and transportation infrastructure so they can live in a 95% white rural community or small town or exurb with low taxes and few services, just the way they like it. Every one of them is exactly who, what, and where they chose to be. That’s why all their grievances are imaginary problems and conspiracy theories. There real lives are boring and uneventful.

This so perfectly encapsulates so many Trump supporters. I'll add that MANY Trump supporters live in very blue areas (just look at Jan. 6 geolocation data), benefiting from good public schools, infrastructure, and healthcare. They don't like that people who look "different" (code, non-white/female, gay) are having success. Trump supporters have bought into the myth that THOSE PEOPLE got a hand up/diversity hire/takers etc. They just can't imagine that non-white men could have success. And they ignore that EVERY Black parent has to have The Talk with their sons, women make up are a tiny fraction of top executives, and Latinos, especially women, are often assumed to be uneducated and possibly illegal.

Sorry, it really comes down to the feeling that THEY are getting shivved because Murica is for White folks.

How does that explain the support Trump has among Latino and Black voters?

In any event, I find the myopia in this thread about who Trump supporters are to be fascinating. It’s as if you’ve all forgotten that 2016 happened. I don’t think it’s as much of a foregone conclusion that he will win as it was by summer 2016. People hate Trump more than they did in 2016 and that might motivate voters. J6 and Trump’s dementia might dissuade some potential Trump voters. But the flip side is that a lot of people of all races are alienated from the Democrats now. Reproductive rights might drive some voters but there are also plenty of disaffected voters alienated by crime (the repeated “it’s down” doesn’t help), immigration, Israel policy, some aspects of transgender rights, job losses, inflation, and lingering resentment about covid policies. It’s a complex picture and at this point I don’t think it’s as clear as it was summer 2016.

Yet all you just keep on screaming “deplorables” over and over. It’s nuts.

Trump is the essence of deplorable.

Trump only became prominent because of his birther movement against our first Black president.

Trump refused to apologize for taking out four full-page ads in NYC newspapers calling for the death penalty of the Central Park 5, who were exonerated.

Trump defended his comment about "very fine people" at the Charlottesville white supremacist rally.

Who CARES MY GOD.

We all know Trump is disgusting. That’s not the point of this discussion! Boy do I hope the Biden strategists have actual excellent plans for marketing him to swing states.

If I'm following the source of your frustration, it's that Democrats should just accept that middle America loves Trump even though he's a disgusting person who supports white supremacy and promoted the execution of black kids for something they didn't do? You've got to understand that it's tough to overlook that kind of indifference from fellow citizens. Like, how do we find common ground with people for whom rape and trying to overthrow the government isn't a deal breaker?

Like, you don’t want to win badly enough. What is the point, what is the fundamental utility in post after post airily proclaiming your ethical and moral superiority to a Trump lover. There is none. My fear is that the comfort of that sense of superiority - however legit - is not only kept to annoying and addictive internet boards like this one, but animate how the Democratic Party approaches critical campaigns. I don’t care at all what others believe - their grave and petty prejudices - as it has zero material impact on me and on my votes and my life. I live in a blue bubble without immediate want and need surrounding me- and I am guessing the same is true for you.

It’s irritating to the point of galling to have purportedly serious political chat always devolve into “bbbutt we’re better than them.” SFW. SFW?? Can we not talk about the ways the campaign can tackle the misrepresentations made about immigration or how to defend or change the support of Israel in order to not lose a segment of voters forever? Can we not talk about how to make the big tent big again? No, we can’t, and I don’t get why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a typical educated and wealthy DC-area striver. Atheist, support women's right to choose, value the diversity of cultures in this world, etc. I wouldn't say no to a tax cut, lol. I'm going to be good whoever gets elected.

We gotta face facts, though. Most of America is not like DC. It's hugely white, under-educated, under-employed people, who have been truly screwed over by progressive policies.

They have to compete with millions upon millions of lower cost illegal migrants flooding across the borders. They have been penalized by the color of their skin when applying to college and jobs. Suicide, depression, opioids, wars they have to fight and die in...it has gotten quite bad.

Once upon a time, democrats valued this massive part of America. Do they still? Can they?

and it would be so EASY for Democrats to win elections but instead of helping the deplorables Democrats focus on expanding immigration.

stupid

Bullshit. We subsidize the hell out of the deplorables. Most of them would not have all this free time and money to give to Trump without some kind of government assistance.

This is actually the problem. Middle America doesn't want welfare. They want to be able to work to support their families as previous generations did. Saying, "what's it to you, your SNAP check bounced or something?" demonstrates the enormous disconnect between elites and the working class.

Just stop gaslighting. Trump’s people aren’t poor and they aren’t mistreated. They all have the jobs and the lifestyles and the standards of living they chose and earned. Nobody held them back. We subsidize their healthcare and retirement and education and water, sewer, and transportation infrastructure so they can live in a 95% white rural community or small town or exurb with low taxes and few services, just the way they like it. Every one of them is exactly who, what, and where they chose to be. That’s why all their grievances are imaginary problems and conspiracy theories. There real lives are boring and uneventful.

This so perfectly encapsulates so many Trump supporters. I'll add that MANY Trump supporters live in very blue areas (just look at Jan. 6 geolocation data), benefiting from good public schools, infrastructure, and healthcare. They don't like that people who look "different" (code, non-white/female, gay) are having success. Trump supporters have bought into the myth that THOSE PEOPLE got a hand up/diversity hire/takers etc. They just can't imagine that non-white men could have success. And they ignore that EVERY Black parent has to have The Talk with their sons, women make up are a tiny fraction of top executives, and Latinos, especially women, are often assumed to be uneducated and possibly illegal.

Sorry, it really comes down to the feeling that THEY are getting shivved because Murica is for White folks.

How does that explain the support Trump has among Latino and Black voters?

In any event, I find the myopia in this thread about who Trump supporters are to be fascinating. It’s as if you’ve all forgotten that 2016 happened. I don’t think it’s as much of a foregone conclusion that he will win as it was by summer 2016. People hate Trump more than they did in 2016 and that might motivate voters. J6 and Trump’s dementia might dissuade some potential Trump voters. But the flip side is that a lot of people of all races are alienated from the Democrats now. Reproductive rights might drive some voters but there are also plenty of disaffected voters alienated by crime (the repeated “it’s down” doesn’t help), immigration, Israel policy, some aspects of transgender rights, job losses, inflation, and lingering resentment about covid policies. It’s a complex picture and at this point I don’t think it’s as clear as it was summer 2016.

Yet all you just keep on screaming “deplorables” over and over. It’s nuts.

Trump is the essence of deplorable.

Trump only became prominent because of his birther movement against our first Black president.

Trump refused to apologize for taking out four full-page ads in NYC newspapers calling for the death penalty of the Central Park 5, who were exonerated.

Trump defended his comment about "very fine people" at the Charlottesville white supremacist rally.

Who CARES MY GOD.

We all know Trump is disgusting. That’s not the point of this discussion! Boy do I hope the Biden strategists have actual excellent plans for marketing him to swing states.

PP was talking about Black voters flocking to Trump. I’m just saying that I would think/hope many Black voters may have decent memories. He has repeatedly told them what he thinks of them, so why not rehash who he really is. But, sure let’s blame the Dems marketing. To people who voted for NOTHING in 2020—no GOP platform, save the whims of the president.

I cannot stand this argument. The economy is strong and is benefiting the middle class. Nothing will convince them. Hillary talked policy ad nauseum. She’s a total wonk who won the popular vote, but in the end that didn’t matter.

The media scared minorities and warned black people that Trump would be a draconian and brutal return to olden days and that didn’t happen. It turns out black unemployment was a record low in the Trump years due to immigration crackdowns, the black poverty rate decreased for the first time since 2002 during his administration, black homeownership increased significantly with the low interest rates cut, black businesses and entrepreneurship were significantly helped by the PPP loans, Chicago violence got better after peak Obama years due to Trump sending national guards/feds to Chicago. The media bashed him for this but that just shows that black lives do matter to him. Obama couldn’t care less and hasn’t been to Chicago since has he? He also granted clemency and released more African Americans from jail than Obama, and signed the First Step Act -the first real prison/ criminal justice reform correcting the Biden /Clinton 1994 acts despite the media criticising his work with Kim K on prison reform . He also provided more funding to HBCUS who were begging Obama for money for years. Many HBCUS went bankrupt during the post recession Obama years and they couldn’t get any piece of the pie (stimulus money) because Obamas administration didn’t divvy it up which is a shame because many black colleges were huge donation drivers for Obamas campaign.

Ridiculous. The reason people are so upset about Trump and Biden being the likely nominees has nothing to do with skin color. They are too old to be trusted with the demands of the most powerful job in the world until 2029 and most people realize that. It's as simple as this.

BoThSiDeS!

Exactly, you'd think one of them would take this opportunity to completely destroy the other side by running a viable candidate but they instead prefer to play down to the level of the competition.

See the post immediately below yours for yet another serving of everyone has to shut up and show up when….that motivation doesn’t always motivate. No matter, that’s the party line.

[Anonymous]

The only person who can beat Trump is Biden and I don't care if Biden is 120!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a typical educated and wealthy DC-area striver. Atheist, support women's right to choose, value the diversity of cultures in this world, etc. I wouldn't say no to a tax cut, lol. I'm going to be good whoever gets elected.

We gotta face facts, though. Most of America is not like DC. It's hugely white, under-educated, under-employed people, who have been truly screwed over by progressive policies.

They have to compete with millions upon millions of lower cost illegal migrants flooding across the borders. They have been penalized by the color of their skin when applying to college and jobs. Suicide, depression, opioids, wars they have to fight and die in...it has gotten quite bad.

Once upon a time, democrats valued this massive part of America. Do they still? Can they?

and it would be so EASY for Democrats to win elections but instead of helping the deplorables Democrats focus on expanding immigration.

stupid

Bullshit. We subsidize the hell out of the deplorables. Most of them would not have all this free time and money to give to Trump without some kind of government assistance.

This is actually the problem. Middle America doesn't want welfare. They want to be able to work to support their families as previous generations did. Saying, "what's it to you, your SNAP check bounced or something?" demonstrates the enormous disconnect between elites and the working class.

Just stop gaslighting. Trump’s people aren’t poor and they aren’t mistreated. They all have the jobs and the lifestyles and the standards of living they chose and earned. Nobody held them back. We subsidize their healthcare and retirement and education and water, sewer, and transportation infrastructure so they can live in a 95% white rural community or small town or exurb with low taxes and few services, just the way they like it. Every one of them is exactly who, what, and where they chose to be. That’s why all their grievances are imaginary problems and conspiracy theories. There real lives are boring and uneventful.

This so perfectly encapsulates so many Trump supporters. I'll add that MANY Trump supporters live in very blue areas (just look at Jan. 6 geolocation data), benefiting from good public schools, infrastructure, and healthcare. They don't like that people who look "different" (code, non-white/female, gay) are having success. Trump supporters have bought into the myth that THOSE PEOPLE got a hand up/diversity hire/takers etc. They just can't imagine that non-white men could have success. And they ignore that EVERY Black parent has to have The Talk with their sons, women make up are a tiny fraction of top executives, and Latinos, especially women, are often assumed to be uneducated and possibly illegal.

Sorry, it really comes down to the feeling that THEY are getting shivved because Murica is for White folks.

How does that explain the support Trump has among Latino and Black voters?

In any event, I find the myopia in this thread about who Trump supporters are to be fascinating. It’s as if you’ve all forgotten that 2016 happened. I don’t think it’s as much of a foregone conclusion that he will win as it was by summer 2016. People hate Trump more than they did in 2016 and that might motivate voters. J6 and Trump’s dementia might dissuade some potential Trump voters. But the flip side is that a lot of people of all races are alienated from the Democrats now. Reproductive rights might drive some voters but there are also plenty of disaffected voters alienated by crime (the repeated “it’s down” doesn’t help), immigration, Israel policy, some aspects of transgender rights, job losses, inflation, and lingering resentment about covid policies. It’s a complex picture and at this point I don’t think it’s as clear as it was summer 2016.

Yet all you just keep on screaming “deplorables” over and over. It’s nuts.

Trump is the essence of deplorable.

Trump only became prominent because of his birther movement against our first Black president.

Trump refused to apologize for taking out four full-page ads in NYC newspapers calling for the death penalty of the Central Park 5, who were exonerated.

Trump defended his comment about "very fine people" at the Charlottesville white supremacist rally.

Who CARES MY GOD.

We all know Trump is disgusting. That’s not the point of this discussion! Boy do I hope the Biden strategists have actual excellent plans for marketing him to swing states.

If I'm following the source of your frustration, it's that Democrats should just accept that middle America loves Trump even though he's a disgusting person who supports white supremacy and promoted the execution of black kids for something they didn't do? You've got to understand that it's tough to overlook that kind of indifference from fellow citizens. Like, how do we find common ground with people for whom rape and trying to overthrow the government isn't a deal breaker?

Like, you don’t want to win badly enough. What is the point, what is the fundamental utility in post after post airily proclaiming your ethical and moral superiority to a Trump lover. There is none. My fear is that the comfort of that sense of superiority - however legit - is not only kept to annoying and addictive internet boards like this one, but animate how the Democratic Party approaches critical campaigns. I don’t care at all what others believe - their grave and petty prejudices - as it has zero material impact on me and on my votes and my life. I live in a blue bubble without immediate want and need surrounding me- and I am guessing the same is true for you.

It’s irritating to the point of galling to have purportedly serious political chat always devolve into “bbbutt we’re better than them.” SFW. SFW?? Can we not talk about the ways the campaign can tackle the misrepresentations made about immigration or how to defend or change the support of Israel in order to not lose a segment of voters forever? Can we not talk about how to make the big tent big again? No, we can’t, and I don’t get why.

Great post.

I am terrified that the election will be lost because of all these people who just have to say, over and over, how awful Trump is, how horrible his supporters are, and how much better they are than Trump voters. I do not understand this need to declare their moral superiority over and over and over. Not only is it tedious (and in some cases, shockingly un-self-aware), it bleeds into a failure of messaging that could be catastrophic for Biden.

This is a critical juncture for democracy and a bunch of people in this thread seem to only care about their own egos. Great, you are not a Trump supporter. Nobody effing cares, and certainly not the voters in the swing states that actually matter. I’m sorry but if you are a blue state progressive railing on about how awful Trump voters in swing states are, you need to get the eff over yourself and your massive ego. You are actually irrelevant. Voting-wise, you do not matter. The people who matter live in swing states and they are a mix of races and sexes. Trump is polling higher among that group than he should be, and as far as I can tell the current Democratic campaign response is “hurr hurr deplorables.” Get over yourselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a typical educated and wealthy DC-area striver. Atheist, support women's right to choose, value the diversity of cultures in this world, etc. I wouldn't say no to a tax cut, lol. I'm going to be good whoever gets elected.

We gotta face facts, though. Most of America is not like DC. It's hugely white, under-educated, under-employed people, who have been truly screwed over by progressive policies.

They have to compete with millions upon millions of lower cost illegal migrants flooding across the borders. They have been penalized by the color of their skin when applying to college and jobs. Suicide, depression, opioids, wars they have to fight and die in...it has gotten quite bad.

Once upon a time, democrats valued this massive part of America. Do they still? Can they?

and it would be so EASY for Democrats to win elections but instead of helping the deplorables Democrats focus on expanding immigration.

stupid

Bullshit. We subsidize the hell out of the deplorables. Most of them would not have all this free time and money to give to Trump without some kind of government assistance.

This is actually the problem. Middle America doesn't want welfare. They want to be able to work to support their families as previous generations did. Saying, "what's it to you, your SNAP check bounced or something?" demonstrates the enormous disconnect between elites and the working class.

Just stop gaslighting. Trump’s people aren’t poor and they aren’t mistreated. They all have the jobs and the lifestyles and the standards of living they chose and earned. Nobody held them back. We subsidize their healthcare and retirement and education and water, sewer, and transportation infrastructure so they can live in a 95% white rural community or small town or exurb with low taxes and few services, just the way they like it. Every one of them is exactly who, what, and where they chose to be. That’s why all their grievances are imaginary problems and conspiracy theories. There real lives are boring and uneventful.

This so perfectly encapsulates so many Trump supporters. I'll add that MANY Trump supporters live in very blue areas (just look at Jan. 6 geolocation data), benefiting from good public schools, infrastructure, and healthcare. They don't like that people who look "different" (code, non-white/female, gay) are having success. Trump supporters have bought into the myth that THOSE PEOPLE got a hand up/diversity hire/takers etc. They just can't imagine that non-white men could have success. And they ignore that EVERY Black parent has to have The Talk with their sons, women make up are a tiny fraction of top executives, and Latinos, especially women, are often assumed to be uneducated and possibly illegal.

Sorry, it really comes down to the feeling that THEY are getting shivved because Murica is for White folks.

How does that explain the support Trump has among Latino and Black voters?

In any event, I find the myopia in this thread about who Trump supporters are to be fascinating. It’s as if you’ve all forgotten that 2016 happened. I don’t think it’s as much of a foregone conclusion that he will win as it was by summer 2016. People hate Trump more than they did in 2016 and that might motivate voters. J6 and Trump’s dementia might dissuade some potential Trump voters. But the flip side is that a lot of people of all races are alienated from the Democrats now. Reproductive rights might drive some voters but there are also plenty of disaffected voters alienated by crime (the repeated “it’s down” doesn’t help), immigration, Israel policy, some aspects of transgender rights, job losses, inflation, and lingering resentment about covid policies. It’s a complex picture and at this point I don’t think it’s as clear as it was summer 2016.

Yet all you just keep on screaming “deplorables” over and over. It’s nuts.

Trump is the essence of deplorable.

Trump only became prominent because of his birther movement against our first Black president.

Trump refused to apologize for taking out four full-page ads in NYC newspapers calling for the death penalty of the Central Park 5, who were exonerated.

Trump defended his comment about "very fine people" at the Charlottesville white supremacist rally.

Who CARES MY GOD.

We all know Trump is disgusting. That’s not the point of this discussion! Boy do I hope the Biden strategists have actual excellent plans for marketing him to swing states.

If I'm following the source of your frustration, it's that Democrats should just accept that middle America loves Trump even though he's a disgusting person who supports white supremacy and promoted the execution of black kids for something they didn't do? You've got to understand that it's tough to overlook that kind of indifference from fellow citizens. Like, how do we find common ground with people for whom rape and trying to overthrow the government isn't a deal breaker?

Like, you don’t want to win badly enough. What is the point, what is the fundamental utility in post after post airily proclaiming your ethical and moral superiority to a Trump lover. There is none. My fear is that the comfort of that sense of superiority - however legit - is not only kept to annoying and addictive internet boards like this one, but animate how the Democratic Party approaches critical campaigns. I don’t care at all what others believe - their grave and petty prejudices - as it has zero material impact on me and on my votes and my life. I live in a blue bubble without immediate want and need surrounding me- and I am guessing the same is true for you.

It’s irritating to the point of galling to have purportedly serious political chat always devolve into “bbbutt we’re better than them.” SFW. SFW?? Can we not talk about the ways the campaign can tackle the misrepresentations made about immigration or how to defend or change the support of Israel in order to not lose a segment of voters forever? Can we not talk about how to make the big tent big again? No, we can’t, and I don’t get why.

Again though, how do we find common ground with people for whom rape and trying to overthrow the government aren't deal breakers? That's a serious question. Not an effort to proclaim superiority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a typical educated and wealthy DC-area striver. Atheist, support women's right to choose, value the diversity of cultures in this world, etc. I wouldn't say no to a tax cut, lol. I'm going to be good whoever gets elected.

We gotta face facts, though. Most of America is not like DC. It's hugely white, under-educated, under-employed people, who have been truly screwed over by progressive policies.

They have to compete with millions upon millions of lower cost illegal migrants flooding across the borders. They have been penalized by the color of their skin when applying to college and jobs. Suicide, depression, opioids, wars they have to fight and die in...it has gotten quite bad.

Once upon a time, democrats valued this massive part of America. Do they still? Can they?

and it would be so EASY for Democrats to win elections but instead of helping the deplorables Democrats focus on expanding immigration.

stupid

Bullshit. We subsidize the hell out of the deplorables. Most of them would not have all this free time and money to give to Trump without some kind of government assistance.

This is actually the problem. Middle America doesn't want welfare. They want to be able to work to support their families as previous generations did. Saying, "what's it to you, your SNAP check bounced or something?" demonstrates the enormous disconnect between elites and the working class.

Just stop gaslighting. Trump’s people aren’t poor and they aren’t mistreated. They all have the jobs and the lifestyles and the standards of living they chose and earned. Nobody held them back. We subsidize their healthcare and retirement and education and water, sewer, and transportation infrastructure so they can live in a 95% white rural community or small town or exurb with low taxes and few services, just the way they like it. Every one of them is exactly who, what, and where they chose to be. That’s why all their grievances are imaginary problems and conspiracy theories. There real lives are boring and uneventful.

This so perfectly encapsulates so many Trump supporters. I'll add that MANY Trump supporters live in very blue areas (just look at Jan. 6 geolocation data), benefiting from good public schools, infrastructure, and healthcare. They don't like that people who look "different" (code, non-white/female, gay) are having success. Trump supporters have bought into the myth that THOSE PEOPLE got a hand up/diversity hire/takers etc. They just can't imagine that non-white men could have success. And they ignore that EVERY Black parent has to have The Talk with their sons, women make up are a tiny fraction of top executives, and Latinos, especially women, are often assumed to be uneducated and possibly illegal.

Sorry, it really comes down to the feeling that THEY are getting shivved because Murica is for White folks.

How does that explain the support Trump has among Latino and Black voters?

In any event, I find the myopia in this thread about who Trump supporters are to be fascinating. It’s as if you’ve all forgotten that 2016 happened. I don’t think it’s as much of a foregone conclusion that he will win as it was by summer 2016. People hate Trump more than they did in 2016 and that might motivate voters. J6 and Trump’s dementia might dissuade some potential Trump voters. But the flip side is that a lot of people of all races are alienated from the Democrats now. Reproductive rights might drive some voters but there are also plenty of disaffected voters alienated by crime (the repeated “it’s down” doesn’t help), immigration, Israel policy, some aspects of transgender rights, job losses, inflation, and lingering resentment about covid policies. It’s a complex picture and at this point I don’t think it’s as clear as it was summer 2016.

Yet all you just keep on screaming “deplorables” over and over. It’s nuts.

Trump is the essence of deplorable.

Trump only became prominent because of his birther movement against our first Black president.

Trump refused to apologize for taking out four full-page ads in NYC newspapers calling for the death penalty of the Central Park 5, who were exonerated.

Trump defended his comment about "very fine people" at the Charlottesville white supremacist rally.

Who CARES MY GOD.

We all know Trump is disgusting. That’s not the point of this discussion! Boy do I hope the Biden strategists have actual excellent plans for marketing him to swing states.

If I'm following the source of your frustration, it's that Democrats should just accept that middle America loves Trump even though he's a disgusting person who supports white supremacy and promoted the execution of black kids for something they didn't do? You've got to understand that it's tough to overlook that kind of indifference from fellow citizens. Like, how do we find common ground with people for whom rape and trying to overthrow the government isn't a deal breaker?

Like, you don’t want to win badly enough. What is the point, what is the fundamental utility in post after post airily proclaiming your ethical and moral superiority to a Trump lover. There is none. My fear is that the comfort of that sense of superiority - however legit - is not only kept to annoying and addictive internet boards like this one, but animate how the Democratic Party approaches critical campaigns. I don’t care at all what others believe - their grave and petty prejudices - as it has zero material impact on me and on my votes and my life. I live in a blue bubble without immediate want and need surrounding me- and I am guessing the same is true for you.

It’s irritating to the point of galling to have purportedly serious political chat always devolve into “bbbutt we’re better than them.” SFW. SFW?? Can we not talk about the ways the campaign can tackle the misrepresentations made about immigration or how to defend or change the support of Israel in order to not lose a segment of voters forever? Can we not talk about how to make the big tent big again? No, we can’t, and I don’t get why.

So you want the Democrats to have a tent that holds women, minorities, and trans people with people who want all their rights taken away? How could one party have a single tent that big and serve all?! You are asking for the impossible.

[Anonymous]

Most liberals do not think they are better than conservatives. They think liberal policies are better. Can you make that distinction?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a typical educated and wealthy DC-area striver. Atheist, support women's right to choose, value the diversity of cultures in this world, etc. I wouldn't say no to a tax cut, lol. I'm going to be good whoever gets elected.

We gotta face facts, though. Most of America is not like DC. It's hugely white, under-educated, under-employed people, who have been truly screwed over by progressive policies.

They have to compete with millions upon millions of lower cost illegal migrants flooding across the borders. They have been penalized by the color of their skin when applying to college and jobs. Suicide, depression, opioids, wars they have to fight and die in...it has gotten quite bad.

Once upon a time, democrats valued this massive part of America. Do they still? Can they?

and it would be so EASY for Democrats to win elections but instead of helping the deplorables Democrats focus on expanding immigration.

stupid

Bullshit. We subsidize the hell out of the deplorables. Most of them would not have all this free time and money to give to Trump without some kind of government assistance.

This is actually the problem. Middle America doesn't want welfare. They want to be able to work to support their families as previous generations did. Saying, "what's it to you, your SNAP check bounced or something?" demonstrates the enormous disconnect between elites and the working class.

Just stop gaslighting. Trump’s people aren’t poor and they aren’t mistreated. They all have the jobs and the lifestyles and the standards of living they chose and earned. Nobody held them back. We subsidize their healthcare and retirement and education and water, sewer, and transportation infrastructure so they can live in a 95% white rural community or small town or exurb with low taxes and few services, just the way they like it. Every one of them is exactly who, what, and where they chose to be. That’s why all their grievances are imaginary problems and conspiracy theories. There real lives are boring and uneventful.

This so perfectly encapsulates so many Trump supporters. I'll add that MANY Trump supporters live in very blue areas (just look at Jan. 6 geolocation data), benefiting from good public schools, infrastructure, and healthcare. They don't like that people who look "different" (code, non-white/female, gay) are having success. Trump supporters have bought into the myth that THOSE PEOPLE got a hand up/diversity hire/takers etc. They just can't imagine that non-white men could have success. And they ignore that EVERY Black parent has to have The Talk with their sons, women make up are a tiny fraction of top executives, and Latinos, especially women, are often assumed to be uneducated and possibly illegal.

Sorry, it really comes down to the feeling that THEY are getting shivved because Murica is for White folks.

How does that explain the support Trump has among Latino and Black voters?

In any event, I find the myopia in this thread about who Trump supporters are to be fascinating. It’s as if you’ve all forgotten that 2016 happened. I don’t think it’s as much of a foregone conclusion that he will win as it was by summer 2016. People hate Trump more than they did in 2016 and that might motivate voters. J6 and Trump’s dementia might dissuade some potential Trump voters. But the flip side is that a lot of people of all races are alienated from the Democrats now. Reproductive rights might drive some voters but there are also plenty of disaffected voters alienated by crime (the repeated “it’s down” doesn’t help), immigration, Israel policy, some aspects of transgender rights, job losses, inflation, and lingering resentment about covid policies. It’s a complex picture and at this point I don’t think it’s as clear as it was summer 2016.

Yet all you just keep on screaming “deplorables” over and over. It’s nuts.

Trump is the essence of deplorable.

Trump only became prominent because of his birther movement against our first Black president.

Trump refused to apologize for taking out four full-page ads in NYC newspapers calling for the death penalty of the Central Park 5, who were exonerated.

Trump defended his comment about "very fine people" at the Charlottesville white supremacist rally.

Who CARES MY GOD.

We all know Trump is disgusting. That’s not the point of this discussion! Boy do I hope the Biden strategists have actual excellent plans for marketing him to swing states.

If I'm following the source of your frustration, it's that Democrats should just accept that middle America loves Trump even though he's a disgusting person who supports white supremacy and promoted the execution of black kids for something they didn't do? You've got to understand that it's tough to overlook that kind of indifference from fellow citizens. Like, how do we find common ground with people for whom rape and trying to overthrow the government isn't a deal breaker?

Like, you don’t want to win badly enough. What is the point, what is the fundamental utility in post after post airily proclaiming your ethical and moral superiority to a Trump lover. There is none. My fear is that the comfort of that sense of superiority - however legit - is not only kept to annoying and addictive internet boards like this one, but animate how the Democratic Party approaches critical campaigns. I don’t care at all what others believe - their grave and petty prejudices - as it has zero material impact on me and on my votes and my life. I live in a blue bubble without immediate want and need surrounding me- and I am guessing the same is true for you.

It’s irritating to the point of galling to have purportedly serious political chat always devolve into “bbbutt we’re better than them.” SFW. SFW?? Can we not talk about the ways the campaign can tackle the misrepresentations made about immigration or how to defend or change the support of Israel in order to not lose a segment of voters forever? Can we not talk about how to make the big tent big again? No, we can’t, and I don’t get why.

Again though, how do we find common ground with people for whom rape and trying to overthrow the government aren't deal breakers? That's a serious question. Not an effort to proclaim superiority.

So you and the following posters just don’t get my point at all, because you think you’re making an important point, and you aren’t. I don’t give a damn about “common ground.” What I am addressing in para 2 is the need to animate a CURRENT presidential campaign by Biden and to tackle head-on the deficiencies - what I see as deficiencies- in addressing material concerns that Democratic voters and particularly those who are registered but not feeling like voting for him, as opposed to this immature relitigating of which of these 2 very old, very known, men, is a better person. Instead, TPTB need to present the positive campaign where the perception that the economy isn’t great is confronted, where the migrant crises are fully and publicly discussed, where the war is acknowledged and addressed. That as best as I see is not happening at all, and it frightens me. An actually smart different poster noted that Trump is far more vulnerable and hated than he was in 2016 or 2020, but they - and I - worry that it’s not enough to get sufficient support in critical places for Biden.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a typical educated and wealthy DC-area striver. Atheist, support women's right to choose, value the diversity of cultures in this world, etc. I wouldn't say no to a tax cut, lol. I'm going to be good whoever gets elected.

We gotta face facts, though. Most of America is not like DC. It's hugely white, under-educated, under-employed people, who have been truly screwed over by progressive policies.

They have to compete with millions upon millions of lower cost illegal migrants flooding across the borders. They have been penalized by the color of their skin when applying to college and jobs. Suicide, depression, opioids, wars they have to fight and die in...it has gotten quite bad.

Once upon a time, democrats valued this massive part of America. Do they still? Can they?

and it would be so EASY for Democrats to win elections but instead of helping the deplorables Democrats focus on expanding immigration.

stupid

Bullshit. We subsidize the hell out of the deplorables. Most of them would not have all this free time and money to give to Trump without some kind of government assistance.

This is actually the problem. Middle America doesn't want welfare. They want to be able to work to support their families as previous generations did. Saying, "what's it to you, your SNAP check bounced or something?" demonstrates the enormous disconnect between elites and the working class.

Just stop gaslighting. Trump’s people aren’t poor and they aren’t mistreated. They all have the jobs and the lifestyles and the standards of living they chose and earned. Nobody held them back. We subsidize their healthcare and retirement and education and water, sewer, and transportation infrastructure so they can live in a 95% white rural community or small town or exurb with low taxes and few services, just the way they like it. Every one of them is exactly who, what, and where they chose to be. That’s why all their grievances are imaginary problems and conspiracy theories. There real lives are boring and uneventful.

This so perfectly encapsulates so many Trump supporters. I'll add that MANY Trump supporters live in very blue areas (just look at Jan. 6 geolocation data), benefiting from good public schools, infrastructure, and healthcare. They don't like that people who look "different" (code, non-white/female, gay) are having success. Trump supporters have bought into the myth that THOSE PEOPLE got a hand up/diversity hire/takers etc. They just can't imagine that non-white men could have success. And they ignore that EVERY Black parent has to have The Talk with their sons, women make up are a tiny fraction of top executives, and Latinos, especially women, are often assumed to be uneducated and possibly illegal.

Sorry, it really comes down to the feeling that THEY are getting shivved because Murica is for White folks.

How does that explain the support Trump has among Latino and Black voters?

In any event, I find the myopia in this thread about who Trump supporters are to be fascinating. It’s as if you’ve all forgotten that 2016 happened. I don’t think it’s as much of a foregone conclusion that he will win as it was by summer 2016. People hate Trump more than they did in 2016 and that might motivate voters. J6 and Trump’s dementia might dissuade some potential Trump voters. But the flip side is that a lot of people of all races are alienated from the Democrats now. Reproductive rights might drive some voters but there are also plenty of disaffected voters alienated by crime (the repeated “it’s down” doesn’t help), immigration, Israel policy, some aspects of transgender rights, job losses, inflation, and lingering resentment about covid policies. It’s a complex picture and at this point I don’t think it’s as clear as it was summer 2016.

Yet all you just keep on screaming “deplorables” over and over. It’s nuts.

Trump is the essence of deplorable.

Trump only became prominent because of his birther movement against our first Black president.

Trump refused to apologize for taking out four full-page ads in NYC newspapers calling for the death penalty of the Central Park 5, who were exonerated.

Trump defended his comment about "very fine people" at the Charlottesville white supremacist rally.

Who CARES MY GOD.

We all know Trump is disgusting. That’s not the point of this discussion! Boy do I hope the Biden strategists have actual excellent plans for marketing him to swing states.

If I'm following the source of your frustration, it's that Democrats should just accept that middle America loves Trump even though he's a disgusting person who supports white supremacy and promoted the execution of black kids for something they didn't do? You've got to understand that it's tough to overlook that kind of indifference from fellow citizens. Like, how do we find common ground with people for whom rape and trying to overthrow the government isn't a deal breaker?

Like, you don’t want to win badly enough. What is the point, what is the fundamental utility in post after post airily proclaiming your ethical and moral superiority to a Trump lover. There is none. My fear is that the comfort of that sense of superiority - however legit - is not only kept to annoying and addictive internet boards like this one, but animate how the Democratic Party approaches critical campaigns. I don’t care at all what others believe - their grave and petty prejudices - as it has zero material impact on me and on my votes and my life. I live in a blue bubble without immediate want and need surrounding me- and I am guessing the same is true for you.

It’s irritating to the point of galling to have purportedly serious political chat always devolve into “bbbutt we’re better than them.” SFW. SFW?? Can we not talk about the ways the campaign can tackle the misrepresentations made about immigration or how to defend or change the support of Israel in order to not lose a segment of voters forever? Can we not talk about how to make the big tent big again? No, we can’t, and I don’t get why.

Again though, how do we find common ground with people for whom rape and trying to overthrow the government aren't deal breakers? That's a serious question. Not an effort to proclaim superiority.

So you and the following posters just don’t get my point at all, because you think you’re making an important point, and you aren’t. I don’t give a damn about “common ground.” What I am addressing in para 2 is the need to animate a CURRENT presidential campaign by Biden and to tackle head-on the deficiencies - what I see as deficiencies- in addressing material concerns that Democratic voters and particularly those who are registered but not feeling like voting for him, as opposed to this immature relitigating of which of these 2 very old, very known, men, is a better person. Instead, TPTB need to present the positive campaign where the perception that the economy isn’t great is confronted, where the migrant crises are fully and publicly discussed, where the war is acknowledged and addressed. That as best as I see is not happening at all, and it frightens me. An actually smart different poster noted that Trump is far more vulnerable and hated than he was in 2016 or 2020, but they - and I - worry that it’s not enough to get sufficient support in critical places for Biden.

People are willfully ignoring all economic data. I’m not sure how you sway people who reject actual facts. But yes Biden and the Dems need to counter the GOP misinformation and bad politics. I agree.

Also you could have just posted what you posted above, instead your other long rambling post without insulting folks here because they didn’t address what you wanted them to..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a typical educated and wealthy DC-area striver. Atheist, support women's right to choose, value the diversity of cultures in this world, etc. I wouldn't say no to a tax cut, lol. I'm going to be good whoever gets elected.

We gotta face facts, though. Most of America is not like DC. It's hugely white, under-educated, under-employed people, who have been truly screwed over by progressive policies.

They have to compete with millions upon millions of lower cost illegal migrants flooding across the borders. They have been penalized by the color of their skin when applying to college and jobs. Suicide, depression, opioids, wars they have to fight and die in...it has gotten quite bad.

Once upon a time, democrats valued this massive part of America. Do they still? Can they?

and it would be so EASY for Democrats to win elections but instead of helping the deplorables Democrats focus on expanding immigration.

stupid

Bullshit. We subsidize the hell out of the deplorables. Most of them would not have all this free time and money to give to Trump without some kind of government assistance.

This is actually the problem. Middle America doesn't want welfare. They want to be able to work to support their families as previous generations did. Saying, "what's it to you, your SNAP check bounced or something?" demonstrates the enormous disconnect between elites and the working class.

Just stop gaslighting. Trump’s people aren’t poor and they aren’t mistreated. They all have the jobs and the lifestyles and the standards of living they chose and earned. Nobody held them back. We subsidize their healthcare and retirement and education and water, sewer, and transportation infrastructure so they can live in a 95% white rural community or small town or exurb with low taxes and few services, just the way they like it. Every one of them is exactly who, what, and where they chose to be. That’s why all their grievances are imaginary problems and conspiracy theories. There real lives are boring and uneventful.

This so perfectly encapsulates so many Trump supporters. I'll add that MANY Trump supporters live in very blue areas (just look at Jan. 6 geolocation data), benefiting from good public schools, infrastructure, and healthcare. They don't like that people who look "different" (code, non-white/female, gay) are having success. Trump supporters have bought into the myth that THOSE PEOPLE got a hand up/diversity hire/takers etc. They just can't imagine that non-white men could have success. And they ignore that EVERY Black parent has to have The Talk with their sons, women make up are a tiny fraction of top executives, and Latinos, especially women, are often assumed to be uneducated and possibly illegal.

Sorry, it really comes down to the feeling that THEY are getting shivved because Murica is for White folks.

How does that explain the support Trump has among Latino and Black voters?

In any event, I find the myopia in this thread about who Trump supporters are to be fascinating. It’s as if you’ve all forgotten that 2016 happened. I don’t think it’s as much of a foregone conclusion that he will win as it was by summer 2016. People hate Trump more than they did in 2016 and that might motivate voters. J6 and Trump’s dementia might dissuade some potential Trump voters. But the flip side is that a lot of people of all races are alienated from the Democrats now. Reproductive rights might drive some voters but there are also plenty of disaffected voters alienated by crime (the repeated “it’s down” doesn’t help), immigration, Israel policy, some aspects of transgender rights, job losses, inflation, and lingering resentment about covid policies. It’s a complex picture and at this point I don’t think it’s as clear as it was summer 2016.

Yet all you just keep on screaming “deplorables” over and over. It’s nuts.

Trump is the essence of deplorable.

Trump only became prominent because of his birther movement against our first Black president.

Trump refused to apologize for taking out four full-page ads in NYC newspapers calling for the death penalty of the Central Park 5, who were exonerated.

Trump defended his comment about "very fine people" at the Charlottesville white supremacist rally.

Who CARES MY GOD.

We all know Trump is disgusting. That’s not the point of this discussion! Boy do I hope the Biden strategists have actual excellent plans for marketing him to swing states.

If I'm following the source of your frustration, it's that Democrats should just accept that middle America loves Trump even though he's a disgusting person who supports white supremacy and promoted the execution of black kids for something they didn't do? You've got to understand that it's tough to overlook that kind of indifference from fellow citizens. Like, how do we find common ground with people for whom rape and trying to overthrow the government isn't a deal breaker?

Like, you don’t want to win badly enough. What is the point, what is the fundamental utility in post after post airily proclaiming your ethical and moral superiority to a Trump lover. There is none. My fear is that the comfort of that sense of superiority - however legit - is not only kept to annoying and addictive internet boards like this one, but animate how the Democratic Party approaches critical campaigns. I don’t care at all what others believe - their grave and petty prejudices - as it has zero material impact on me and on my votes and my life. I live in a blue bubble without immediate want and need surrounding me- and I am guessing the same is true for you.

It’s irritating to the point of galling to have purportedly serious political chat always devolve into “bbbutt we’re better than them.” SFW. SFW?? Can we not talk about the ways the campaign can tackle the misrepresentations made about immigration or how to defend or change the support of Israel in order to not lose a segment of voters forever? Can we not talk about how to make the big tent big again? No, we can’t, and I don’t get why.

Again though, how do we find common ground with people for whom rape and trying to overthrow the government aren't deal breakers? That's a serious question. Not an effort to proclaim superiority.

So you and the following posters just don’t get my point at all, because you think you’re making an important point, and you aren’t. I don’t give a damn about “common ground.” What I am addressing in para 2 is the need to animate a CURRENT presidential campaign by Biden and to tackle head-on the deficiencies - what I see as deficiencies- in addressing material concerns that Democratic voters and particularly those who are registered but not feeling like voting for him, as opposed to this immature relitigating of which of these 2 very old, very known, men, is a better person. Instead, TPTB need to present the positive campaign where the perception that the economy isn’t great is confronted, where the migrant crises are fully and publicly discussed, where the war is acknowledged and addressed. That as best as I see is not happening at all, and it frightens me. An actually smart different poster noted that Trump is far more vulnerable and hated than he was in 2016 or 2020, but they - and I - worry that it’s not enough to get sufficient support in critical places for Biden.

Ok. I think my confusion lies in your point being made in this topic which is about "why a huge part of middle America loves Trump."

You are apparently speaking of making an appeal to those parts of America (middle or otherwise) that: a) do not love Trump; but b) are willing to acquiesce to his election despite him being a rapist and having tried to violently overthrow our government.

I mean, I'm all for touting Biden's positive accomplishments: ARPA, Bipartisan Infrastructure, Inflation Reduction Act, CHIPS, avoided the recession everyone said we would have, lower inflation than other Western nations, a reinvigorated NLRB with pro-Labor policies, and international diplomacy that helped Ukraine resist Russia despite predictions that Ukraine would be defeated in weeks. If you are a voter who can sneer at those achievements *and* ignore rape and insurrection to acquiesce to Trump's election, I'm not sure you can be reached.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'm a typical educated and wealthy DC-area striver. Atheist, support women's right to choose, value the diversity of cultures in this world, etc. I wouldn't say no to a tax cut, lol. I'm going to be good whoever gets elected.

We gotta face facts, though. Most of America is not like DC. It's hugely white, under-educated, under-employed people, who have been truly screwed over by progressive policies.

They have to compete with millions upon millions of lower cost illegal migrants flooding across the borders. They have been penalized by the color of their skin when applying to college and jobs. Suicide, depression, opioids, wars they have to fight and die in...it has gotten quite bad.

Once upon a time, democrats valued this massive part of America. Do they still? Can they?

and it would be so EASY for Democrats to win elections but instead of helping the deplorables Democrats focus on expanding immigration.

stupid

Bullshit. We subsidize the hell out of the deplorables. Most of them would not have all this free time and money to give to Trump without some kind of government assistance.

This is actually the problem. Middle America doesn't want welfare. They want to be able to work to support their families as previous generations did. Saying, "what's it to you, your SNAP check bounced or something?" demonstrates the enormous disconnect between elites and the working class.

Just stop gaslighting. Trump’s people aren’t poor and they aren’t mistreated. They all have the jobs and the lifestyles and the standards of living they chose and earned. Nobody held them back. We subsidize their healthcare and retirement and education and water, sewer, and transportation infrastructure so they can live in a 95% white rural community or small town or exurb with low taxes and few services, just the way they like it. Every one of them is exactly who, what, and where they chose to be. That’s why all their grievances are imaginary problems and conspiracy theories. There real lives are boring and uneventful.

This so perfectly encapsulates so many Trump supporters. I'll add that MANY Trump supporters live in very blue areas (just look at Jan. 6 geolocation data), benefiting from good public schools, infrastructure, and healthcare. They don't like that people who look "different" (code, non-white/female, gay) are having success. Trump supporters have bought into the myth that THOSE PEOPLE got a hand up/diversity hire/takers etc. They just can't imagine that non-white men could have success. And they ignore that EVERY Black parent has to have The Talk with their sons, women make up are a tiny fraction of top executives, and Latinos, especially women, are often assumed to be uneducated and possibly illegal.

Sorry, it really comes down to the feeling that THEY are getting shivved because Murica is for White folks.

How does that explain the support Trump has among Latino and Black voters?

In any event, I find the myopia in this thread about who Trump supporters are to be fascinating. It’s as if you’ve all forgotten that 2016 happened. I don’t think it’s as much of a foregone conclusion that he will win as it was by summer 2016. People hate Trump more than they did in 2016 and that might motivate voters. J6 and Trump’s dementia might dissuade some potential Trump voters. But the flip side is that a lot of people of all races are alienated from the Democrats now. Reproductive rights might drive some voters but there are also plenty of disaffected voters alienated by crime (the repeated “it’s down” doesn’t help), immigration, Israel policy, some aspects of transgender rights, job losses, inflation, and lingering resentment about covid policies. It’s a complex picture and at this point I don’t think it’s as clear as it was summer 2016.

Yet all you just keep on screaming “deplorables” over and over. It’s nuts.

Trump is the essence of deplorable.

Trump only became prominent because of his birther movement against our first Black president.

Trump refused to apologize for taking out four full-page ads in NYC newspapers calling for the death penalty of the Central Park 5, who were exonerated.

Trump defended his comment about "very fine people" at the Charlottesville white supremacist rally.

Who CARES MY GOD.

We all know Trump is disgusting. That’s not the point of this discussion! Boy do I hope the Biden strategists have actual excellent plans for marketing him to swing states.

If I'm following the source of your frustration, it's that Democrats should just accept that middle America loves Trump even though he's a disgusting person who supports white supremacy and promoted the execution of black kids for something they didn't do? You've got to understand that it's tough to overlook that kind of indifference from fellow citizens. Like, how do we find common ground with people for whom rape and trying to overthrow the government isn't a deal breaker?

Like, you don’t want to win badly enough. What is the point, what is the fundamental utility in post after post airily proclaiming your ethical and moral superiority to a Trump lover. There is none. My fear is that the comfort of that sense of superiority - however legit - is not only kept to annoying and addictive internet boards like this one, but animate how the Democratic Party approaches critical campaigns. I don’t care at all what others believe - their grave and petty prejudices - as it has zero material impact on me and on my votes and my life. I live in a blue bubble without immediate want and need surrounding me- and I am guessing the same is true for you.

It’s irritating to the point of galling to have purportedly serious political chat always devolve into “bbbutt we’re better than them.” SFW. SFW?? Can we not talk about the ways the campaign can tackle the misrepresentations made about immigration or how to defend or change the support of Israel in order to not lose a segment of voters forever? Can we not talk about how to make the big tent big again? No, we can’t, and I don’t get why.

Again though, how do we find common ground with people for whom rape and trying to overthrow the government aren't deal breakers? That's a serious question. Not an effort to proclaim superiority.

I don’t know but you’d better figure it out soon or you will have the leader of the group trying to overthrow the government as your president.

[Anonymous]

Trump keeps defaming the woman he raped. Surely middle America can't love that.