Stop asking student tour guides where they're applying to college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All you people on this board arguing it is a fair question, just ask the Admission Office where the student tour guides are applying to college instead of the children leading the tour. You think the question is fine, we don’t, so ask the adults if it’s so important to you. And then we will know exactly who to exclude. And if you are too scared to ask the admissions office because you realize what an a** you are being then you are a coward for asking it of the child leading your tour.

Actually we want to know how the students handle themselves, not the adults who are selling us something.

I was trying to think of a good adult equivalent of this tour guide situation feeling wise. The best I can think of in terms of comfort would be a stranger who is interviewing at your company/place of work asking you directly how much money you make and then asking follow-ups at a casual lunch you're assigned to do with them.

Nah, it's more like a stranger interviewing at a company and asking if there are progression opportunities amd what thay individuals' or similar path would be. Totally relevant.

Is it small talk or the most important question you have? You know the school publishes lists of where all the grads go right? The opportunities and paths are readily available if you ask. But its more about putting a kid on the hot seat to see if they can pass the test isn’t it?

I think this is a major part of the problem. Many schools actually don’t publish lists or they just list the schools where at least one member of last year’s or last 3 year’s graduating class is attending.

Just publish the complete facts. It is important to parents…indicate how many kids are attending which school, so you know if only 1 kid is attending Harvard and actually 30 are attending UMD or vice versa.

If they handed out this list then when any adult asked the tour guide, the guide could just point to the one-sheet and that would be it.

Many schools don't publish the list? Which ones? I haven't seen this issue. Heck even my public high school did this when I graduated. If you can't find the data, don't bother with the school. Quizzing the tour guide isn't going to answer the question anyway.

I don’t know what to tell you…most schools don’t publish this list in any detail to be of use…at least they didn’t 3 years ago when going through the open house process.

I have only seen Bullis in the close-in DMV publish a list in the detail parents honestly want to see. I have seen postings for STA on DCUM from parents, but nothing officially from the school so no idea if it is accurate or not.

So you haven't actually looked. The information is out there. But now it's "in any detail to be of use" so the goal posts are shifting. What detail could the tour guide provide that make this a necessary question to ask?

I don't understand your point...the information is NOT out there. Why should anyone attending a private school open house have to do anything except receive a one-sheet with the information. Look at what Harvard-Westlake has no problem providing in the above link...that is what people want.

https://www.stalbansschool.org/academics/college-counseling/college-matriculations
https://www.bullis.org/academics/college-counseling/college-matriculation
https://www.sidwell.edu/academics/college-counseling/college-matriculation
https://www.gds.org/academics/college-counseling/matriculation

What school are you particularly interested in? Name it and I'm sure people can find you the information.

This is useless and completely generic...exactly what I said. How is it at all helpful to know that yes at least one Sidwell kid in the last 4 years has matriculated at one of those schools. Parents want to know how many kids matriculated at those schools. Was there only 1 at Harvard, or 20? Did 20 Sidwell kids go to the University of Alabama or 1? Would definitely be nice to know how the class of 2022 fared on its own vs. the class of 2018.

Go look at the Harvard-Westlake data, that is what parents really want to know. If one of the most elite private schools in the US is willing to publish this data, no reason DMV schools wouldn't.

The point of this thread is "stop asking the tour guides where they are applying" seems like you agree that parents should stop doing that because obviously the guide won't have this information or answer these question. Glad we resolved that issue.

I agree with you...except parents are trying to fill the information void that the schools for some reason just won't provide. They are handed a fairly meaningless list, and want to know more. The administration won't provide it, so maybe the tour guide will give us some "real" answers. If they bite and answer where they are applying, well now you ask...do many Sidwell/GDS/STA kids apply to School X or schools like that? How many seem to get accepted? Does Sidwell/GDS/STA counseling encourage applying to those schools over others? You name it. The floodgate is open.

My point is the schools themselves are putting these student tour guides in very uncomfortable situations for absolutely no reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All you people on this board arguing it is a fair question, just ask the Admission Office where the student tour guides are applying to college instead of the children leading the tour. You think the question is fine, we don’t, so ask the adults if it’s so important to you. And then we will know exactly who to exclude. And if you are too scared to ask the admissions office because you realize what an a** you are being then you are a coward for asking it of the child leading your tour.

Actually we want to know how the students handle themselves, not the adults who are selling us something.

I was trying to think of a good adult equivalent of this tour guide situation feeling wise. The best I can think of in terms of comfort would be a stranger who is interviewing at your company/place of work asking you directly how much money you make and then asking follow-ups at a casual lunch you're assigned to do with them.

Nah, it's more like a stranger interviewing at a company and asking if there are progression opportunities amd what thay individuals' or similar path would be. Totally relevant.

Is it small talk or the most important question you have? You know the school publishes lists of where all the grads go right? The opportunities and paths are readily available if you ask. But its more about putting a kid on the hot seat to see if they can pass the test isn’t it?

I think this is a major part of the problem. Many schools actually don’t publish lists or they just list the schools where at least one member of last year’s or last 3 year’s graduating class is attending.

Just publish the complete facts. It is important to parents…indicate how many kids are attending which school, so you know if only 1 kid is attending Harvard and actually 30 are attending UMD or vice versa.

If they handed out this list then when any adult asked the tour guide, the guide could just point to the one-sheet and that would be it.

Many schools don't publish the list? Which ones? I haven't seen this issue. Heck even my public high school did this when I graduated. If you can't find the data, don't bother with the school. Quizzing the tour guide isn't going to answer the question anyway.

I don’t know what to tell you…most schools don’t publish this list in any detail to be of use…at least they didn’t 3 years ago when going through the open house process.

I have only seen Bullis in the close-in DMV publish a list in the detail parents honestly want to see. I have seen postings for STA on DCUM from parents, but nothing officially from the school so no idea if it is accurate or not.

So you haven't actually looked. The information is out there. But now it's "in any detail to be of use" so the goal posts are shifting. What detail could the tour guide provide that make this a necessary question to ask?

I don't understand your point...the information is NOT out there. Why should anyone attending a private school open house have to do anything except receive a one-sheet with the information. Look at what Harvard-Westlake has no problem providing in the above link...that is what people want.

https://www.stalbansschool.org/academics/college-counseling/college-matriculations
https://www.bullis.org/academics/college-counseling/college-matriculation
https://www.sidwell.edu/academics/college-counseling/college-matriculation
https://www.gds.org/academics/college-counseling/matriculation

What school are you particularly interested in? Name it and I'm sure people can find you the information.

This is useless and completely generic...exactly what I said. How is it at all helpful to know that yes at least one Sidwell kid in the last 4 years has matriculated at one of those schools. Parents want to know how many kids matriculated at those schools. Was there only 1 at Harvard, or 20? Did 20 Sidwell kids go to the University of Alabama or 1? Would definitely be nice to know how the class of 2022 fared on its own vs. the class of 2018.

Go look at the Harvard-Westlake data, that is what parents really want to know. If one of the most elite private schools in the US is willing to publish this data, no reason DMV schools wouldn't.

The point of this thread is "stop asking the tour guides where they are applying" seems like you agree that parents should stop doing that because obviously the guide won't have this information or answer these question. Glad we resolved that issue.

I agree with you...except parents are trying to fill the information void that the schools for some reason just won't provide. They are handed a fairly meaningless list, and want to know more. The administration won't provide it, so maybe the tour guide will give us some "real" answers. If they bite and answer where they are applying, well now you ask...do many Sidwell/GDS/STA kids apply to School X or schools like that? How many seem to get accepted? Does Sidwell/GDS/STA counseling encourage applying to those schools over others? You name it. The floodgate is open.

My point is the schools themselves are putting these student tour guides in very uncomfortable situations for absolutely no reason.

Since the kids don't talk amongst themselves you are still going to leave disappointed.

[Anonymous]

The other thing to consider (of course) is that where kids are applying and where they go are two entirely different things.

My Big3 kid knows at least 6 kids who put in an ED application to Duke this year. Historically 0-1 kids from this school will get accepted to Duke (at any point in the admissions season) while at least 10-15 will apply.

So what a kid tells you during the fall tour season has almost ZERO bearing on where he or she will end up getting in or matriculating. They might as well all say "Harvard and Duke." LOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All you people on this board arguing it is a fair question, just ask the Admission Office where the student tour guides are applying to college instead of the children leading the tour. You think the question is fine, we don’t, so ask the adults if it’s so important to you. And then we will know exactly who to exclude. And if you are too scared to ask the admissions office because you realize what an a** you are being then you are a coward for asking it of the child leading your tour.

Actually we want to know how the students handle themselves, not the adults who are selling us something.

I was trying to think of a good adult equivalent of this tour guide situation feeling wise. The best I can think of in terms of comfort would be a stranger who is interviewing at your company/place of work asking you directly how much money you make and then asking follow-ups at a casual lunch you're assigned to do with them.

Nah, it's more like a stranger interviewing at a company and asking if there are progression opportunities amd what thay individuals' or similar path would be. Totally relevant.

Is it small talk or the most important question you have? You know the school publishes lists of where all the grads go right? The opportunities and paths are readily available if you ask. But its more about putting a kid on the hot seat to see if they can pass the test isn’t it?

I think this is a major part of the problem. Many schools actually don’t publish lists or they just list the schools where at least one member of last year’s or last 3 year’s graduating class is attending.

Just publish the complete facts. It is important to parents…indicate how many kids are attending which school, so you know if only 1 kid is attending Harvard and actually 30 are attending UMD or vice versa.

If they handed out this list then when any adult asked the tour guide, the guide could just point to the one-sheet and that would be it.

Many schools don't publish the list? Which ones? I haven't seen this issue. Heck even my public high school did this when I graduated. If you can't find the data, don't bother with the school. Quizzing the tour guide isn't going to answer the question anyway.

I don’t know what to tell you…most schools don’t publish this list in any detail to be of use…at least they didn’t 3 years ago when going through the open house process.

I have only seen Bullis in the close-in DMV publish a list in the detail parents honestly want to see. I have seen postings for STA on DCUM from parents, but nothing officially from the school so no idea if it is accurate or not.

So you haven't actually looked. The information is out there. But now it's "in any detail to be of use" so the goal posts are shifting. What detail could the tour guide provide that make this a necessary question to ask?

I don't understand your point...the information is NOT out there. Why should anyone attending a private school open house have to do anything except receive a one-sheet with the information. Look at what Harvard-Westlake has no problem providing in the above link...that is what people want.

https://www.stalbansschool.org/academics/college-counseling/college-matriculations
https://www.bullis.org/academics/college-counseling/college-matriculation
https://www.sidwell.edu/academics/college-counseling/college-matriculation
https://www.gds.org/academics/college-counseling/matriculation

What school are you particularly interested in? Name it and I'm sure people can find you the information.

This is useless and completely generic...exactly what I said. How is it at all helpful to know that yes at least one Sidwell kid in the last 4 years has matriculated at one of those schools. Parents want to know how many kids matriculated at those schools. Was there only 1 at Harvard, or 20? Did 20 Sidwell kids go to the University of Alabama or 1? Would definitely be nice to know how the class of 2022 fared on its own vs. the class of 2018.

Go look at the Harvard-Westlake data, that is what parents really want to know. If one of the most elite private schools in the US is willing to publish this data, no reason DMV schools wouldn't.

The point of this thread is "stop asking the tour guides where they are applying" seems like you agree that parents should stop doing that because obviously the guide won't have this information or answer these question. Glad we resolved that issue.

I agree with you...except parents are trying to fill the information void that the schools for some reason just won't provide. They are handed a fairly meaningless list, and want to know more. The administration won't provide it, so maybe the tour guide will give us some "real" answers. If they bite and answer where they are applying, well now you ask...do many Sidwell/GDS/STA kids apply to School X or schools like that? How many seem to get accepted? Does Sidwell/GDS/STA counseling encourage applying to those schools over others? You name it. The floodgate is open.

My point is the schools themselves are putting these student tour guides in very uncomfortable situations for absolutely no reason.

So parents whose kids are applying understand the uncomfortable position the tour guides are in and yet they ask the Qs anyway, hoping to get the student to bite and take advantage of the opening to press for more info?

These parents have no self-control? They have no consideration for the child they hope to take advantage of? They are out only for themselves and their kid?

They will fit right in!

[Anonymous]

These lists are in the school magazine, which is usually laying around the admissions office.

Grab one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess I am a boomer, because it never occurred to me that this is an inappropriate question. without being sarcastic or snotty, can someone explain what is wrong with asking this?

Boomer - can you think of anything else that was commonly said or spoken out loud "back in your day" that is no longer appropriate now? LOTS. When people are giving you a cue that times have changed - take the advice and reflect on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't be serious. That's the tour guide equivalent of cocktail party question. Where do you live/work. Good lord.

+1
I will continue to ask. If the tour guide is too sensitive about their personal experiences at the school, they need a different role.

You keep missing the point. Nobody ever said the kids can't handle it - the point is that you are being rude by asking. Period. Of course kids (and their parents) field these questions all the time. We all know how to deflect.

Several admissions adults SAY UP FRONT to leave the kids alone RE college applications - it's not acceptable small talk, not acceptable probing. If you are too afraid to ask admissions for the information you need and/or are too dense to get up to speed - this is your issue...not a sign of a snowflake tour guide (who will be just fine but chalk you up as "one of THOSE parents")

[Anonymous]

For those of you having an issue understanding the inappropriate question - here are others I suspect you would never ask because they are highly personal:

-Do you get financial aid - how much?
-How hard do you find the classes, do you get A's?
-What's your GPA? What's your SAT/ACT score?
- Do you take APs? What were your scores on the test?
- Do you have tutors? How many of your friends do?
- Do you have an accommodation recognized by the school - and what do they do to help you?

[Anonymous]

“If you are interested in our matriculations I can point you to our cc office. Next on our tour…” People can ask any question they want, you decide the answer youre comfortable giving. I am particularly fond of smiling and saying well I wont share that but (insert positive redirect).

[Anonymous]

Maybe it is more in line with asking a 28 year old woman who has always said she wants kids, “so are you planning to have a baby soon?” Assume they are not close to you.
I have come to decide upon reflection that I will not ask where kids are applying to school, even my kids’ good friends or cousins. I will wait until the kid makes an announcement and then be thrilled for them whatever the outcome, same as I would if my neighbors told me they were having a baby, after they were ready to share.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those of you having an issue understanding the inappropriate question - here are others I suspect you would never ask because they are highly personal:

-Do you get financial aid - how much?
-How hard do you find the classes, do you get A's?
-What's your GPA? What's your SAT/ACT score?
- Do you take APs? What were your scores on the test?
- Do you have tutors? How many of your friends do?
- Do you have an accommodation recognized by the school - and what do they do to help you?

I would absolutely ask if they found the classes hard and if few or many kids get As, would also ask if tutors are commonplace, would ask if they take APs and to their knowledge do kids do well on the AP tests. If my kid needed an accommodation, would ask if they knew anything about how the school may actually handle those vs what Admin claims.

So, many of those are good questions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you having an issue understanding the inappropriate question - here are others I suspect you would never ask because they are highly personal:

-Do you get financial aid - how much?
-How hard do you find the classes, do you get A's?
-What's your GPA? What's your SAT/ACT score?
- Do you take APs? What were your scores on the test?
- Do you have tutors? How many of your friends do?
- Do you have an accommodation recognized by the school - and what do they do to help you?

I would absolutely ask if they found the classes hard and if few or many kids get As, would also ask if tutors are commonplace, would ask if they take APs and to their knowledge do kids do well on the AP tests. If my kid needed an accommodation, would ask if they knew anything about how the school may actually handle those vs what Admin claims.

So, many of those are good questions.

You made those questions general. No longer "what is your GPA." If you extend that to the original situation then you would agree to not ask an individual where did *you* apply but more generally "how many schools do seniors generally apply to?" Which I think many would agree is a fair question. Asking specific questions about the guide's GPA, accommodations, applications, rejections, financial aid, etc are all terrible questions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you having an issue understanding the inappropriate question - here are others I suspect you would never ask because they are highly personal:

-Do you get financial aid - how much?
-How hard do you find the classes, do you get A's?
-What's your GPA? What's your SAT/ACT score?
- Do you take APs? What were your scores on the test?
- Do you have tutors? How many of your friends do?
- Do you have an accommodation recognized by the school - and what do they do to help you?

I would absolutely ask if they found the classes hard and if few or many kids get As, would also ask if tutors are commonplace, would ask if they take APs and to their knowledge do kids do well on the AP tests. If my kid needed an accommodation, would ask if they knew anything about how the school may actually handle those vs what Admin claims.

So, many of those are good questions.

You made those questions general. No longer "what is your GPA." If you extend that to the original situation then you would agree to not ask an individual where did *you* apply but more generally "how many schools do seniors generally apply to?" Which I think many would agree is a fair question. Asking specific questions about the guide's GPA, accommodations, applications, rejections, financial aid, etc are all terrible questions.

Exactly.

“Do you get financial aid?” Not okay.
“What percentage of the student body gets financial aid?” Okay.

“What is your GPA?” Not okay.
“What is the average GPA?” Okay.

“Where are you applying to college?” Not okay.
“Where do seniors apply to college?” Okay.

This should be very easy. Shocking that people don’t get it but basic manners are no longer taught, I guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you having an issue understanding the inappropriate question - here are others I suspect you would never ask because they are highly personal:

-Do you get financial aid - how much?
-How hard do you find the classes, do you get A's?
-What's your GPA? What's your SAT/ACT score?
- Do you take APs? What were your scores on the test?
- Do you have tutors? How many of your friends do?
- Do you have an accommodation recognized by the school - and what do they do to help you?

I would absolutely ask if they found the classes hard and if few or many kids get As, would also ask if tutors are commonplace, would ask if they take APs and to their knowledge do kids do well on the AP tests. If my kid needed an accommodation, would ask if they knew anything about how the school may actually handle those vs what Admin claims.

So, many of those are good questions.

My point is that "yes - many people would love to know the answer to these questions" - but it is highly inappropriate to ask such personal information from a teenager giving you at tour!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you having an issue understanding the inappropriate question - here are others I suspect you would never ask because they are highly personal:

-Do you get financial aid - how much?
-How hard do you find the classes, do you get A's?
-What's your GPA? What's your SAT/ACT score?
- Do you take APs? What were your scores on the test?
- Do you have tutors? How many of your friends do?
- Do you have an accommodation recognized by the school - and what do they do to help you?

I would absolutely ask if they found the classes hard and if few or many kids get As, would also ask if tutors are commonplace, would ask if they take APs and to their knowledge do kids do well on the AP tests. If my kid needed an accommodation, would ask if they knew anything about how the school may actually handle those vs what Admin claims.

So, many of those are good questions.

You made those questions general. No longer "what is your GPA." If you extend that to the original situation then you would agree to not ask an individual where did *you* apply but more generally "how many schools do seniors generally apply to?" Which I think many would agree is a fair question. Asking specific questions about the guide's GPA, accommodations, applications, rejections, financial aid, etc are all terrible questions.

Exactly.

“Do you get financial aid?” Not okay.
“What percentage of the student body gets financial aid?” Okay.

“What is your GPA?” Not okay.
“What is the average GPA?” Okay.

“Where are you applying to college?” Not okay.
“Where do seniors apply to college?” Okay.

This should be very easy. Shocking that people don’t get it but basic manners are no longer taught, I guess.

So..what about: what non-ivy schools are poplar this year? Are you hearing that a lot of kids are going test optional? can you share any of the factors kids your year are using to decide where to apply?