Missing middle- Arlington

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So begins the decline of Arlington. More people will choose McLean or Bethesda once they see how neighborhoods get transformed by this stupidity.

I don’t think this will happen. I think people will continue to want Arlington for their commutes, or being near amenities, etc. Many of us may go private (like our family). But Arlington is still going to be desirable.

For many people, the dream of owning a SFH is about being on a quiet, peaceful street relatively free of density, not one clogged with cars and people. If people want density, they choose a townhouse or condo. Make no mistake, many people's property values will be negatively impacted.

It's like when you're considering buying a house, but the one next door has all the hallmarks of being inhabited by a hoarder (stuff all over the lawn and backyard, poorly cared for) -- you take a pass and wait for something better to come along. No different here.

Yesterday I literally had someone tell me they chose a SFH in Arlington bc it reminded them of a “city.” The home buying demographic is changing. People are valuing different things.

Perhaps they were looking more over in Lyon Village, which does feel like the city as opposed to homes in the Williamsburg, country club Hills, etc. neighborhoods.

DP. I don’t see the incentives for MM housing in those neighborhoods and if you look at the map most of the MM projects are near amenities. I live in a SFH in 22207 because when we outgrew our condo in LV we couldn’t afford a SFH in that neighborhood. I would never rent here or buy a duplex or multi family housing (unless I could purchase the whole building). It’s not walkable. The rents in the R-B corridor are higher than in other parts of the county. So if I were a developer looking to build a rental that’s where it would make sense to focus.

I agree with this. And to put an even finer point on it, the developers will look for land alone the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor that’s the cheapest. Which means not Lyon Village. That neighborhood is the most expensive per square foot in all of Arlington County. If the developers want to build plexes to rent out, they will target places like Virginia Square and Lyon Park where the land prices are lower. Maybe duplexes make sense in LV, but I think the building lots are too expensive for a 4-6 plex of rental units. There are other metro-accessible neighborhoods with cheaper lots.

Two of the MM projects are in Lyon Village. One on Danvilel St.and one on Jackson St.

No there’s one duplex on N Jackson. Unless Danville just got filed. What’s the Danville address?

Just filed and will not give specific address but between 1500 and 1700 block.

There’s no record of this Danville filing on the EHO tracker. I would think it would have shown up by now.

A house that meets that criteria and was sold last year was recently rented so maybe they decided to wait or realized MM wasn’t the free money they thought it would be

Interesting!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone repost the link to the database? I can’t find it in the thread.

https://www.arlingtonva.us/Government/Programs/Building/Permits/EHO/Tracker

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Tracker update today shows a lot of 6-plexes -- including two that appear to be next door to each other. I project parking challenges!

There is already construction at or near that location on 7th St S. I wonder if they were originally planning on SFHs and are pausing now. There is plenty of off street parking near that block.

Two sixplexes is 12 units, obvioulsy. Twelve units occupied by at least two people is 24 cars.

Twenty four cars avergang 15 feet long is 360 feet. Thats a 1.2 football fields. Good luck finding that much parking.

I don't think that section of 7th St S is even 360 feet long.

Whatever this development turns out to look like, it will encapsulate both the pros and cons of MM in one tidy package. Two 6-plexes right next to each other!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tracker update today shows a lot of 6-plexes -- including two that appear to be next door to each other. I project parking challenges!

There is already construction at or near that location on 7th St S. I wonder if they were originally planning on SFHs and are pausing now. There is plenty of off street parking near that block.

Two sixplexes is 12 units, obvioulsy. Twelve units occupied by at least two people is 24 cars.

Twenty four cars avergang 15 feet long is 360 feet. Thats a 1.2 football fields. Good luck finding that much parking.

I don't think that section of 7th St S is even 360 feet long.

Whatever this development turns out to look like, it will encapsulate both the pros and cons of MM in one tidy package. Two 6-plexes right next to each other!

There is parking available on Quincy and 8th, each 1/2 block away. I believe all the SFHs have driveways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tracker update today shows a lot of 6-plexes -- including two that appear to be next door to each other. I project parking challenges!

There is already construction at or near that location on 7th St S. I wonder if they were originally planning on SFHs and are pausing now. There is plenty of off street parking near that block.

Two sixplexes is 12 units, obvioulsy. Twelve units occupied by at least two people is 24 cars.

Twenty four cars avergang 15 feet long is 360 feet. Thats a 1.2 football fields. Good luck finding that much parking.

I don't think that section of 7th St S is even 360 feet long.

Whatever this development turns out to look like, it will encapsulate both the pros and cons of MM in one tidy package. Two 6-plexes right next to each other!

There is parking available on Quincy and 8th, each 1/2 block away. I believe all the SFHs have driveways.

Quincy and 8th isn't "that section of 7th St S". Thanks for proving my point.

Driveways are certainly a naïve and dishonest argument:

Each driveway means one less parking space due to the curb cutout

Look at Street View on Google - notice how many other cars aren't neatly parked in a driveway?

Just play this MM thought experiment forward a bit. A SFH sells and a 2/4/6-plex takes its place, as MM encourages. What happens with parking next?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tracker update today shows a lot of 6-plexes -- including two that appear to be next door to each other. I project parking challenges!

There is already construction at or near that location on 7th St S. I wonder if they were originally planning on SFHs and are pausing now. There is plenty of off street parking near that block.

Two sixplexes is 12 units, obvioulsy. Twelve units occupied by at least two people is 24 cars.

Twenty four cars avergang 15 feet long is 360 feet. Thats a 1.2 football fields. Good luck finding that much parking.

I don't think that section of 7th St S is even 360 feet long.

Whatever this development turns out to look like, it will encapsulate both the pros and cons of MM in one tidy package. Two 6-plexes right next to each other!

There is parking available on Quincy and 8th, each 1/2 block away. I believe all the SFHs have driveways.

Quincy and 8th isn't "that section of 7th St S". Thanks for proving my point.

Driveways are certainly a naïve and dishonest argument:

Each driveway means one less parking space due to the curb cutout

Look at Street View on Google - notice how many other cars aren't neatly parked in a driveway?

Just play this MM thought experiment forward a bit. A SFH sells and a 2/4/6-plex takes its place, as MM encourages. What happens with parking next?

I don’t need to look at street view because I drive or walk this block daily. There isn’t a shortage of parking in this area of the neighborhood. It’s possible not everyone will fit on 7th cause it’s a short block, but there are many spaces nearby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tracker update today shows a lot of 6-plexes -- including two that appear to be next door to each other. I project parking challenges!

There is already construction at or near that location on 7th St S. I wonder if they were originally planning on SFHs and are pausing now. There is plenty of off street parking near that block.

Two sixplexes is 12 units, obvioulsy. Twelve units occupied by at least two people is 24 cars.

Twenty four cars avergang 15 feet long is 360 feet. Thats a 1.2 football fields. Good luck finding that much parking.

The plexes will be rentals so may have fewer cars, particularly if a non profit buys them and makes them affordable

What nonprofit is buying and developing land? Even the big affordable housing developers have to redevelop land they already own and get financing and loans just to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was surprised that so many filings were for plexes that will be rented. Looks like the townhouses are in so so areas. What’s the point?

It’s somewhat complex to create a condo association (HOA) for a 6-unit condo building, and it’s a pain for the developer to manage and transition the HOA over to the owners, especially if a few of the units struggle to sell.

Renting the 6 units out will be profitable and there will always be a steady stream of well-paid renters wanting to live in Arlington.

I agree it is dumb to disrupt SFH neighborhoods and create parking issues if these are going to be 6-plex rentals. A 6-pled could easily add 9 cars. Build a real high rise apartment or condo building in already-dense neighborhoods instead (something Arlington is already doing and should continue to do).

I’m for MM but this is why I think it should be capped at duplexes or 3 rowhomes (no HOA) for purchase only.

I told Katie Cristol at one of the meetings at Lubber Run. She told me the owners could “get together” and manage the building. I said that was fine as long as the sales were cash. No lender would permit that. She huffed and ignored me. She was the expert on MM housing who wanted it in Arlington and had no understanding of real estate financing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tracker update today shows a lot of 6-plexes -- including two that appear to be next door to each other. I project parking challenges!

There is already construction at or near that location on 7th St S. I wonder if they were originally planning on SFHs and are pausing now. There is plenty of off street parking near that block.

Two sixplexes is 12 units, obvioulsy. Twelve units occupied by at least two people is 24 cars.

Twenty four cars avergang 15 feet long is 360 feet. Thats a 1.2 football fields. Good luck finding that much parking.

The plexes will be rentals so may have fewer cars, particularly if a non profit buys them and makes them affordable

What nonprofit is buying and developing land? Even the big affordable housing developers have to redevelop land they already own and get financing and loans just to do so.

Arlington's Alliance for Housing Solutions is working with Habitat for Humanity to develop Missing Middle housing in Arlington. They are not developing land, they are developing tear down lots. It is very expensive to develop vacant lots for residences in Arlington because they generally have no impervious surfaces and need much more expensive storm water management.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tracker update today shows a lot of 6-plexes -- including two that appear to be next door to each other. I project parking challenges!

There is already construction at or near that location on 7th St S. I wonder if they were originally planning on SFHs and are pausing now. There is plenty of off street parking near that block.

Two sixplexes is 12 units, obvioulsy. Twelve units occupied by at least two people is 24 cars.

Twenty four cars avergang 15 feet long is 360 feet. Thats a 1.2 football fields. Good luck finding that much parking.

The plexes will be rentals so may have fewer cars, particularly if a non profit buys them and makes them affordable

What nonprofit is buying and developing land? Even the big affordable housing developers have to redevelop land they already own and get financing and loans just to do so.

Arlington's Alliance for Housing Solutions is working with Habitat for Humanity to develop Missing Middle housing in Arlington. They are not developing land, they are developing tear down lots. It is very expensive to develop vacant lots for residences in Arlington because they generally have no impervious surfaces and need much more expensive storm water management.

Which tear downs have they purchased for MM housing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tracker update today shows a lot of 6-plexes -- including two that appear to be next door to each other. I project parking challenges!

There is already construction at or near that location on 7th St S. I wonder if they were originally planning on SFHs and are pausing now. There is plenty of off street parking near that block.

Two sixplexes is 12 units, obvioulsy. Twelve units occupied by at least two people is 24 cars.

Twenty four cars avergang 15 feet long is 360 feet. Thats a 1.2 football fields. Good luck finding that much parking.

The plexes will be rentals so may have fewer cars, particularly if a non profit buys them and makes them affordable

What nonprofit is buying and developing land? Even the big affordable housing developers have to redevelop land they already own and get financing and loans just to do so.

Arlington's Alliance for Housing Solutions is working with Habitat for Humanity to develop Missing Middle housing in Arlington. They are not developing land, they are developing tear down lots. It is very expensive to develop vacant lots for residences in Arlington because they generally have no impervious surfaces and need much more expensive storm water management.

Which tear downs have they purchased for MM housing?

None. AHS is working with Habitat. Do you think things like this happen overnight? It will take years, but they are trying to make a difference for all the single moms who need housing in Arlington and can't afford it. Arlington should not just be for people with husbands.

[Anonymous]

Single mom here. I take offense to your statement that a single mom can’t afford Arlington without a husband. What a sexist statement. I can afford a house in Arlington just fine and so can many others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tracker update today shows a lot of 6-plexes -- including two that appear to be next door to each other. I project parking challenges!

There is already construction at or near that location on 7th St S. I wonder if they were originally planning on SFHs and are pausing now. There is plenty of off street parking near that block.

Two sixplexes is 12 units, obvioulsy. Twelve units occupied by at least two people is 24 cars.

Twenty four cars avergang 15 feet long is 360 feet. Thats a 1.2 football fields. Good luck finding that much parking.

The plexes will be rentals so may have fewer cars, particularly if a non profit buys them and makes them affordable

What nonprofit is buying and developing land? Even the big affordable housing developers have to redevelop land they already own and get financing and loans just to do so.

Arlington's Alliance for Housing Solutions is working with Habitat for Humanity to develop Missing Middle housing in Arlington. They are not developing land, they are developing tear down lots. It is very expensive to develop vacant lots for residences in Arlington because they generally have no impervious surfaces and need much more expensive storm water management.

Which tear downs have they purchased for MM housing?

None. AHS is working with Habitat. Do you think things like this happen overnight? It will take years, but they are trying to make a difference for all the single moms who need housing in Arlington and can't afford it. Arlington should not just be for people with husbands.

That's what Section 8 vouchers are for. If these "single moms" are truly financially deserving, they should qualify for a voucher. Can't say that I understand the logic of spending $850K for a teardown lot, then at least another $1 million in construction costs, so that maybe 6 "single moms" can get a unit in a brand new six-plex.

[Anonymous]

I hope after these first several dozen new MM dwellings are marketed that a study is done to determine if they are hitting the demographic the board claimed would be served. Or, is it just a developers dream and high priced housing. And, how the parking situation goes. I live in a neighborhood with serious parking issues. It will be war of a bunch of rentals are out in and no one can find any parking. As it is we often park blocks away. Have to dump off the groceries at the curb and walk back home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hope after these first several dozen new MM dwellings are marketed that a study is done to determine if they are hitting the demographic the board claimed would be served. Or, is it just a developers dream and high priced housing.

This is why they rebranded the whole thing from “missing middle income” to “expanded housing options” part of the way through.

They knew the new units wouldn’t be affordable for the schoolteacher/firefighter/moderate-income household, so that objective was swept to the side and the stated goal is now expanded (expensive) housing options.