Ukrainian victory over Russia is inevitable

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you’re saying they only have anti ship ones? And you’re saying they can destroy everything if they wanted but it’s “expensive? Lol the logic is amazing. Wake up and realize we are caught up in another decades long war.

“We” aren’t caught up in anything.
Ukraine is defending itself from a foreign invader.
I sleep great at night knowing which side I support.

How was your sleep twenty years ago when we invaded Iraq? Did you sleep well then?

Maybe your sleep quality just isn’t a great indicator you think it is.

No. The war in Iraq was a scam and plenty of people know it and say it. That is a dumb argument.

It’s not true that plenty of people said it “at the time”. Mainstream media on both sides cheered it on, and there was never really any mea culpa about it. There isn’t now, either.

Says you. In any case. Russia invaded Ukraine for some stupid reason and it was a mistake. I would say the same for the war in Iraq. Us made a big mistake

Both are mistakes but the fallout was markedly different, don’t you think?

Further enrich us defense contractors? Seems similar. Don't know why Russia and china want to do that but I am ignorant of these things. Maybe someone gets a kickback or something?

There were no consequences whatsoever to the American statesmen and war cheerleaders. And certainly not to average Americans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you’re saying they only have anti ship ones? And you’re saying they can destroy everything if they wanted but it’s “expensive? Lol the logic is amazing. Wake up and realize we are caught up in another decades long war.

“We” aren’t caught up in anything.
Ukraine is defending itself from a foreign invader.
I sleep great at night knowing which side I support.

How was your sleep twenty years ago when we invaded Iraq? Did you sleep well then?

Maybe your sleep quality just isn’t a great indicator you think it is.

No. The war in Iraq was a scam and plenty of people know it and say it. That is a dumb argument.

It’s not true that plenty of people said it “at the time”. Mainstream media on both sides cheered it on, and there was never really any mea culpa about it. There isn’t now, either.

Says you. In any case. Russia invaded Ukraine for some stupid reason and it was a mistake. I would say the same for the war in Iraq. Us made a big mistake

Both are mistakes but the fallout was markedly different, don’t you think?

Further enrich us defense contractors? Seems similar. Don't know why Russia and china want to do that but I am ignorant of these things. Maybe someone gets a kickback or something?

There were no consequences whatsoever to the American statesmen and war cheerleaders. And certainly not to average Americans.

It was a boondoggle for defense contractors and they got a lot of our money. Now they are getting a lot of money again. Why Putin wants to make them even more rich and powerful is a mystery. He seems to be getting nothing at all. It is hard to understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how you blame Russia for using WWII equipment and then say “most of the material support we gave Ukraine was old and due to be scrapped anyway” in the same sentence. Sounds like it’s a battle of equals then ))))

Different eras of "old". Russia is practically digging into their museums for equipment now. BTW, the T-54 has extremely limited gun range, no optics/range finders, needs to be auto-loaded, and stores its excess shells in wet storage inside the fuel tanks. Essentially, these are just coffins on treads.

If this was as bad as you describe, the war would be over by now.

It’s also worth noting Ukraine never made their battlefield losses public. Important context when discussing the Russian losses, don’t you think?

Not really. Russia has thrown an extraordinary amount of material at this over the past year. Their hyped winter offensive completely failed to gain any ground. Their war crime missile and artillery shelling strategy has dramatically ramped down. Their current strategy of human body waves can only go so far.

[Anonymous]

The exact same rhetoric was made about Iraq twenty years ago. And about Afghanistan earlier.

What are you even talking about? These are completely different situations. Besides material support and limited intelligence, the US and its NATO allies are not fighting in Ukraine. If they were, this war would be done in two weeks. F-22s, F-35s, B-2s, followed by combined armor and infantry with air support. Finished. But it's better that the Ukrainians break Russia. Let the humiliation sink in. Maybe then Russians will change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I find amusing with you guys who support this and thinking Russia is getting their butts kicked is that you have no idea what Russia can do. Do you remember Syria? They flattened the land there. They are strong. They are really playing games, yes it’s terrible but that’s what it is. Ukrain is a baby compared to them. You guys honestly think Russia is going balls to the wall trying to win? If they send it their fighter jets, it will be over in a few days. They are only disturbing the area and causing trouble. It’s the sad truth.

Russia's military is a blunt object. They completely suck at combined arms. In Ukraine, Russia has not managed to gain air superiority and have already lost over 300 aircraft and almost as many helicopters due to MANPADS and Ukrainian anti-aircraft weaponry. After the sinking of the Moskva, the Russian naval forces learned they have to keep their distance as well and the best they can do is launch long range missiles, whether from Russian bombers or from the Black Sea Fleet or wherever else far behind the front. At the front itself, their tanks and armor have been getting chewed up (as a poster upthread notes, more than half of their most modern and capable tanks have already been destroyed in Ukraine, they are now sending antiques that don't have ballistic computers, have antique gun sights, and poor armor), Russia has also lost most of their most trained and elite troops - the Spetznaz of various groups, VDV Airborne, Guard, 155th Naval Infantry and others have gotten completely wrecked in Ukraine. The one big battlefront asset that Russia does have - (or did, but may now be running out of) is a lot of artillery. They just used imprecise artillery to blast everything into smithereens - and then send wave after wave of bodies, most of whom are at this point conscripts with minimal training and rusty old weapons. Wagner Group is likewise at its breaking point.

[Anonymous]

If you look at discussions here, Russia and its military has been on the brink for years. It’s a very stable brink , it seems!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how you blame Russia for using WWII equipment and then say “most of the material support we gave Ukraine was old and due to be scrapped anyway” in the same sentence. Sounds like it’s a battle of equals then ))))

Different eras of "old". Russia is practically digging into their museums for equipment now. BTW, the T-54 has extremely limited gun range, no optics/range finders, needs to be auto-loaded, and stores its excess shells in wet storage inside the fuel tanks. Essentially, these are just coffins on treads.

If this was as bad as you describe, the war would be over by now.

It’s also worth noting Ukraine never made their battlefield losses public. Important context when discussing the Russian losses, don’t you think?

Not really. Russia has thrown an extraordinary amount of material at this over the past year. Their hyped winter offensive completely failed to gain any ground. Their war crime missile and artillery shelling strategy has dramatically ramped down. Their current strategy of human body waves can only go so far.

You know what else was hyped? The Ukrainian counteroffensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I find amusing with you guys who support this and thinking Russia is getting their butts kicked is that you have no idea what Russia can do. Do you remember Syria? They flattened the land there. They are strong. They are really playing games, yes it’s terrible but that’s what it is. Ukrain is a baby compared to them. You guys honestly think Russia is going balls to the wall trying to win? If they send it their fighter jets, it will be over in a few days. They are only disturbing the area and causing trouble. It’s the sad truth.

Russia's military is a blunt object. They completely suck at combined arms. In Ukraine, Russia has not managed to gain air superiority and have already lost over 300 aircraft and almost as many helicopters due to MANPADS and Ukrainian anti-aircraft weaponry. After the sinking of the Moskva, the Russian naval forces learned they have to keep their distance as well and the best they can do is launch long range missiles, whether from Russian bombers or from the Black Sea Fleet or wherever else far behind the front. At the front itself, their tanks and armor have been getting chewed up (as a poster upthread notes, more than half of their most modern and capable tanks have already been destroyed in Ukraine, they are now sending antiques that don't have ballistic computers, have antique gun sights, and poor armor), Russia has also lost most of their most trained and elite troops - the Spetznaz of various groups, VDV Airborne, Guard, 155th Naval Infantry and others have gotten completely wrecked in Ukraine. The one big battlefront asset that Russia does have - (or did, but may now be running out of) is a lot of artillery. They just used imprecise artillery to blast everything into smithereens - and then send wave after wave of bodies, most of whom are at this point conscripts with minimal training and rusty old weapons. Wagner Group is likewise at its breaking point.

If that's the case then, we don't need to send F-16s, 100s of Billions and whatever else Zelensky is asking for these days then? There is absolutely no danger to Poland, the Baltic states or Paris.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you look at discussions here, Russia and its military has been on the brink for years. It’s a very stable brink , it seems!

How to make a post when you have no counter argument…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how you blame Russia for using WWII equipment and then say “most of the material support we gave Ukraine was old and due to be scrapped anyway” in the same sentence. Sounds like it’s a battle of equals then ))))

Different eras of "old". Russia is practically digging into their museums for equipment now. BTW, the T-54 has extremely limited gun range, no optics/range finders, needs to be auto-loaded, and stores its excess shells in wet storage inside the fuel tanks. Essentially, these are just coffins on treads.

If this was as bad as you describe, the war would be over by now.

It’s also worth noting Ukraine never made their battlefield losses public. Important context when discussing the Russian losses, don’t you think?

Not really. Russia has thrown an extraordinary amount of material at this over the past year. Their hyped winter offensive completely failed to gain any ground. Their war crime missile and artillery shelling strategy has dramatically ramped down. Their current strategy of human body waves can only go so far.

You know what else was hyped? The Ukrainian counteroffensive.

The one that took back an embarrassing amount of territory from an alleged military superpower in the Fall and is gearing up for the Spring?

[Anonymous]

Spring will be here be here before you know it. And with Spring, comes the big Spring offensive!

Tick tock, Vlad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you’re saying they only have anti ship ones? And you’re saying they can destroy everything if they wanted but it’s “expensive? Lol the logic is amazing. Wake up and realize we are caught up in another decades long war.

“We” aren’t caught up in anything.
Ukraine is defending itself from a foreign invader.
I sleep great at night knowing which side I support.

How was your sleep twenty years ago when we invaded Iraq? Did you sleep well then?

Maybe your sleep quality just isn’t a great indicator you think it is.

No. The war in Iraq was a scam and plenty of people know it and say it. That is a dumb argument.

It’s not true that plenty of people said it “at the time”. Mainstream media on both sides cheered it on, and there was never really any mea culpa about it. There isn’t now, either.

Says you. In any case. Russia invaded Ukraine for some stupid reason and it was a mistake. I would say the same for the war in Iraq. Us made a big mistake

Both are mistakes but the fallout was markedly different, don’t you think?

Further enrich us defense contractors? Seems similar. Don't know why Russia and china want to do that but I am ignorant of these things. Maybe someone gets a kickback or something?

There were no consequences whatsoever to the American statesmen and war cheerleaders. And certainly not to average Americans.

It was a boondoggle for defense contractors and they got a lot of our money. Now they are getting a lot of money again. Why Putin wants to make them even more rich and powerful is a mystery. He seems to be getting nothing at all. It is hard to understand.

You're deliberately avoiding the issue. The Iraq war was just as illegal and much, much bloodier than the one in Ukraine. The amount of propaganda and lies the American state machinery has pumped into it was just as revolting. Yet America the state was never held accountable for this criminal war in whatever passes for "international community". There were no sanctions, no prosecutions, no warrants. Not even domestically! No one lost their jobs on account of pushing the nation into war. Not a single journalist or government official had to hang their head in shame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how you blame Russia for using WWII equipment and then say “most of the material support we gave Ukraine was old and due to be scrapped anyway” in the same sentence. Sounds like it’s a battle of equals then ))))

Different eras of "old". Russia is practically digging into their museums for equipment now. BTW, the T-54 has extremely limited gun range, no optics/range finders, needs to be auto-loaded, and stores its excess shells in wet storage inside the fuel tanks. Essentially, these are just coffins on treads.

If this was as bad as you describe, the war would be over by now.

It’s also worth noting Ukraine never made their battlefield losses public. Important context when discussing the Russian losses, don’t you think?

Not really. Russia has thrown an extraordinary amount of material at this over the past year. Their hyped winter offensive completely failed to gain any ground. Their war crime missile and artillery shelling strategy has dramatically ramped down. Their current strategy of human body waves can only go so far.

You know what else was hyped? The Ukrainian counteroffensive.

The one that took back an embarrassing amount of territory from an alleged military superpower in the Fall and is gearing up for the Spring?

Is it though?

This isn't a movie you know. Redemption doesn't always come.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you’re saying they only have anti ship ones? And you’re saying they can destroy everything if they wanted but it’s “expensive? Lol the logic is amazing. Wake up and realize we are caught up in another decades long war.

“We” aren’t caught up in anything.
Ukraine is defending itself from a foreign invader.
I sleep great at night knowing which side I support.

How was your sleep twenty years ago when we invaded Iraq? Did you sleep well then?

Maybe your sleep quality just isn’t a great indicator you think it is.

No. The war in Iraq was a scam and plenty of people know it and say it. That is a dumb argument.

It’s not true that plenty of people said it “at the time”. Mainstream media on both sides cheered it on, and there was never really any mea culpa about it. There isn’t now, either.

Says you. In any case. Russia invaded Ukraine for some stupid reason and it was a mistake. I would say the same for the war in Iraq. Us made a big mistake

Both are mistakes but the fallout was markedly different, don’t you think?

Further enrich us defense contractors? Seems similar. Don't know why Russia and china want to do that but I am ignorant of these things. Maybe someone gets a kickback or something?

There were no consequences whatsoever to the American statesmen and war cheerleaders. And certainly not to average Americans.

It was a boondoggle for defense contractors and they got a lot of our money. Now they are getting a lot of money again. Why Putin wants to make them even more rich and powerful is a mystery. He seems to be getting nothing at all. It is hard to understand.

You're deliberately avoiding the issue. The Iraq war was just as illegal and much, much bloodier than the one in Ukraine. The amount of propaganda and lies the American state machinery has pumped into it was just as revolting. Yet America the state was never held accountable for this criminal war in whatever passes for "international community". There were no sanctions, no prosecutions, no warrants. Not even domestically! No one lost their jobs on account of pushing the nation into war. Not a single journalist or government official had to hang their head in shame.

How am I avoiding any issue? I don't understand the point of either conflict except as a way to enrich folks making guns and bombs and tanks etc. That is who benefits as best I can figure out

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you’re saying they only have anti ship ones? And you’re saying they can destroy everything if they wanted but it’s “expensive? Lol the logic is amazing. Wake up and realize we are caught up in another decades long war.

“We” aren’t caught up in anything.
Ukraine is defending itself from a foreign invader.
I sleep great at night knowing which side I support.

How was your sleep twenty years ago when we invaded Iraq? Did you sleep well then?

Maybe your sleep quality just isn’t a great indicator you think it is.

No. The war in Iraq was a scam and plenty of people know it and say it. That is a dumb argument.

It’s not true that plenty of people said it “at the time”. Mainstream media on both sides cheered it on, and there was never really any mea culpa about it. There isn’t now, either.

Says you. In any case. Russia invaded Ukraine for some stupid reason and it was a mistake. I would say the same for the war in Iraq. Us made a big mistake

Both are mistakes but the fallout was markedly different, don’t you think?

Further enrich us defense contractors? Seems similar. Don't know why Russia and china want to do that but I am ignorant of these things. Maybe someone gets a kickback or something?

There were no consequences whatsoever to the American statesmen and war cheerleaders. And certainly not to average Americans.

It was a boondoggle for defense contractors and they got a lot of our money. Now they are getting a lot of money again. Why Putin wants to make them even more rich and powerful is a mystery. He seems to be getting nothing at all. It is hard to understand.

You're deliberately avoiding the issue. The Iraq war was just as illegal and much, much bloodier than the one in Ukraine. The amount of propaganda and lies the American state machinery has pumped into it was just as revolting. Yet America the state was never held accountable for this criminal war in whatever passes for "international community". There were no sanctions, no prosecutions, no warrants. Not even domestically! No one lost their jobs on account of pushing the nation into war. Not a single journalist or government official had to hang their head in shame.

How am I avoiding any issue? I don't understand the point of either conflict except as a way to enrich folks making guns and bombs and tanks etc. That is who benefits as best I can figure out

By refusing to acknowledge that Americans were never punished for the Iraq war - an enterprise just as criminal and much bloodier than the current invasion of Ukraine.

I am pissed off that my money got spent on that and that it was a con. I did not lose any family members but many families did. I don't know the exact calculation of who is punished more for the sins of their leaders ..the average American or the average Russian.