Started working at an elementary school last week. Shocked and sad. AMA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these posts are making me want to check out my kid’s elementary school. He is in kindergarten through 5th. How would you as a parent even know if these kinds of behaviors are going on? How can I find out about what’s going on at the middle and high school his elementary feeds into?

I know it sounds extreme, but the best way would be to get approved as a sub. Just spend a day or two in each school and you will be seriously considering private school. Also, here are some questions you can ask your child:

Do any kids in the class behave badly or have tantrums or get in trouble a lot? Do other teachers come into the classroom to work with some of the students (this would mean sped or EL teachers are servicing the room.) Do any students get taken out of the room by teachers to go do other things? (This could mean reading specialist, sped teacher, EL teacher, speech therapy, etc.)

Also, at our ES the classes each get a class score or "grade" in specials each day (like PE, art, etc.) and also lunch. You can ask them if their class gets good reports/grades/etc. (whatever their school uses) from the specials teachers and lunch monitors.

But honestly subbing would be the most informative. Until you've done that its ignorate bliss. You won't be able to unsee the things you have seen.

Do you think this is the case at so called top tier publics? I don’t know the ranking but I think our local high school is supposed to be one of the top(ish) public schools in the country.

1000%. Special education is everywhere in public schools. It does not discriminate based upon race or income. Its cute though that you don't think there are any rich kids in special education.

I know that about special education. I'm talking about the (hopefully) extremes that people have mentioned here, including repeated assault, evacuations in class, etc. And I didn't say anything about race or income or wealth.

These are special education issues, and yes they happen at all schools. Sorry to burst your bubble about the "top(ish)" school you are zoned for. They still have to service any child who lives in their district, plus any child that is sent there for a program that doesn't exist at their home school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean by causing the classroom to be evacuated? Is the student hurting other people? If so you need to get involved. Others have posted re how to get results - see posts up thread.

When a student becomes violent, or acts out in a way that is dangerously disruptive, like throwing things and flipping desks, the entire rest of the class has to leave. They don't remove the child; they remove everyone else. It's hugely disruptive and upsetting to many kids.

This is nuts.

Happens weekly in some classes

Damn

[Anonymous]

I thought this was an old post because I had the same exact issue last year. The class was constantly evacuated because of a child with behavioral issue. At least 3x a week for a while.

It’s seriously messed up and really sad, for EVERYONE. Such a bad model. It puts teachers in an impossible situation, affects learning for all the children, and the child with behavioral issues does not get the help they deserve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these posts are making me want to check out my kid’s elementary school. He is in kindergarten through 5th. How would you as a parent even know if these kinds of behaviors are going on? How can I find out about what’s going on at the middle and high school his elementary feeds into?

I know it sounds extreme, but the best way would be to get approved as a sub. Just spend a day or two in each school and you will be seriously considering private school. Also, here are some questions you can ask your child:

Do any kids in the class behave badly or have tantrums or get in trouble a lot? Do other teachers come into the classroom to work with some of the students (this would mean sped or EL teachers are servicing the room.) Do any students get taken out of the room by teachers to go do other things? (This could mean reading specialist, sped teacher, EL teacher, speech therapy, etc.)

Also, at our ES the classes each get a class score or "grade" in specials each day (like PE, art, etc.) and also lunch. You can ask them if their class gets good reports/grades/etc. (whatever their school uses) from the specials teachers and lunch monitors.

But honestly subbing would be the most informative. Until you've done that its ignorate bliss. You won't be able to unsee the things you have seen.

Do you think this is the case at so called top tier publics? I don’t know the ranking but I think our local high school is supposed to be one of the top(ish) public schools in the country.

1000%. Special education is everywhere in public schools. It does not discriminate based upon race or income. Its cute though that you don't think there are any rich kids in special education.

I know that about special education. I'm talking about the (hopefully) extremes that people have mentioned here, including repeated assault, evacuations in class, etc. And I didn't say anything about race or income or wealth.

These are special education issues, and yes they happen at all schools. Sorry to burst your bubble about the "top(ish)" school you are zoned for. They still have to service any child who lives in their district, plus any child that is sent there for a program that doesn't exist at their home school.

I don’t remember any of this happening regularly at my top public high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these posts are making me want to check out my kid’s elementary school. He is in kindergarten through 5th. How would you as a parent even know if these kinds of behaviors are going on? How can I find out about what’s going on at the middle and high school his elementary feeds into?

I know it sounds extreme, but the best way would be to get approved as a sub. Just spend a day or two in each school and you will be seriously considering private school. Also, here are some questions you can ask your child:

Do any kids in the class behave badly or have tantrums or get in trouble a lot? Do other teachers come into the classroom to work with some of the students (this would mean sped or EL teachers are servicing the room.) Do any students get taken out of the room by teachers to go do other things? (This could mean reading specialist, sped teacher, EL teacher, speech therapy, etc.)

Also, at our ES the classes each get a class score or "grade" in specials each day (like PE, art, etc.) and also lunch. You can ask them if their class gets good reports/grades/etc. (whatever their school uses) from the specials teachers and lunch monitors.

But honestly subbing would be the most informative. Until you've done that its ignorate bliss. You won't be able to unsee the things you have seen.

Do you think this is the case at so called top tier publics? I don’t know the ranking but I think our local high school is supposed to be one of the top(ish) public schools in the country.

1000%. Special education is everywhere in public schools. It does not discriminate based upon race or income. Its cute though that you don't think there are any rich kids in special education.

I know that about special education. I'm talking about the (hopefully) extremes that people have mentioned here, including repeated assault, evacuations in class, etc. And I didn't say anything about race or income or wealth.

These are special education issues, and yes they happen at all schools. Sorry to burst your bubble about the "top(ish)" school you are zoned for. They still have to service any child who lives in their district, plus any child that is sent there for a program that doesn't exist at their home school.

I don’t remember any of this happening regularly at my top public high school.

NP. This is a new policy. Non punitive. Protect the child with behavioral issues relationships with the class at all costs. They never send to the principal’s office anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these posts are making me want to check out my kid’s elementary school. He is in kindergarten through 5th. How would you as a parent even know if these kinds of behaviors are going on? How can I find out about what’s going on at the middle and high school his elementary feeds into?

I know it sounds extreme, but the best way would be to get approved as a sub. Just spend a day or two in each school and you will be seriously considering private school. Also, here are some questions you can ask your child:

Do any kids in the class behave badly or have tantrums or get in trouble a lot? Do other teachers come into the classroom to work with some of the students (this would mean sped or EL teachers are servicing the room.) Do any students get taken out of the room by teachers to go do other things? (This could mean reading specialist, sped teacher, EL teacher, speech therapy, etc.)

Also, at our ES the classes each get a class score or "grade" in specials each day (like PE, art, etc.) and also lunch. You can ask them if their class gets good reports/grades/etc. (whatever their school uses) from the specials teachers and lunch monitors.

But honestly subbing would be the most informative. Until you've done that its ignorate bliss. You won't be able to unsee the things you have seen.

Do you think this is the case at so called top tier publics? I don’t know the ranking but I think our local high school is supposed to be one of the top(ish) public schools in the country.

1000%. Special education is everywhere in public schools. It does not discriminate based upon race or income. Its cute though that you don't think there are any rich kids in special education.

I know that about special education. I'm talking about the (hopefully) extremes that people have mentioned here, including repeated assault, evacuations in class, etc. And I didn't say anything about race or income or wealth.

These are special education issues, and yes they happen at all schools. Sorry to burst your bubble about the "top(ish)" school you are zoned for. They still have to service any child who lives in their district, plus any child that is sent there for a program that doesn't exist at their home school.

At tyr school I work at it is not the kids who have IEP’s. Those kids are already in supported classes and have known challenges. The more difficult kids are those with severe gone trauma who are just dumped in classrooms with no support but who disrupt the entire class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these posts are making me want to check out my kid’s elementary school. He is in kindergarten through 5th. How would you as a parent even know if these kinds of behaviors are going on? How can I find out about what’s going on at the middle and high school his elementary feeds into?

I know it sounds extreme, but the best way would be to get approved as a sub. Just spend a day or two in each school and you will be seriously considering private school. Also, here are some questions you can ask your child:

Do any kids in the class behave badly or have tantrums or get in trouble a lot? Do other teachers come into the classroom to work with some of the students (this would mean sped or EL teachers are servicing the room.) Do any students get taken out of the room by teachers to go do other things? (This could mean reading specialist, sped teacher, EL teacher, speech therapy, etc.)

Also, at our ES the classes each get a class score or "grade" in specials each day (like PE, art, etc.) and also lunch. You can ask them if their class gets good reports/grades/etc. (whatever their school uses) from the specials teachers and lunch monitors.

But honestly subbing would be the most informative. Until you've done that its ignorate bliss. You won't be able to unsee the things you have seen.

Do you think this is the case at so called top tier publics? I don’t know the ranking but I think our local high school is supposed to be one of the top(ish) public schools in the country.

1000%. Special education is everywhere in public schools. It does not discriminate based upon race or income. Its cute though that you don't think there are any rich kids in special education.

I know that about special education. I'm talking about the (hopefully) extremes that people have mentioned here, including repeated assault, evacuations in class, etc. And I didn't say anything about race or income or wealth.

These are special education issues, and yes they happen at all schools. Sorry to burst your bubble about the "top(ish)" school you are zoned for. They still have to service any child who lives in their district, plus any child that is sent there for a program that doesn't exist at their home school.

I don’t remember any of this happening regularly at my top public high school.

By high school there’s usually a plethora of data that supports moving an out of control student to an alternative school or at least placing them in small group classes. K-2 always gets boned because parents are a lot more likely to push back when their child is 6 vs when he’s 16. Also, if you’ve been out of high school for at least 25 years, you probably weren’t even in the same building as those kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these posts are making me want to check out my kid’s elementary school. He is in kindergarten through 5th. How would you as a parent even know if these kinds of behaviors are going on? How can I find out about what’s going on at the middle and high school his elementary feeds into?

I know it sounds extreme, but the best way would be to get approved as a sub. Just spend a day or two in each school and you will be seriously considering private school. Also, here are some questions you can ask your child:

Do any kids in the class behave badly or have tantrums or get in trouble a lot? Do other teachers come into the classroom to work with some of the students (this would mean sped or EL teachers are servicing the room.) Do any students get taken out of the room by teachers to go do other things? (This could mean reading specialist, sped teacher, EL teacher, speech therapy, etc.)

Also, at our ES the classes each get a class score or "grade" in specials each day (like PE, art, etc.) and also lunch. You can ask them if their class gets good reports/grades/etc. (whatever their school uses) from the specials teachers and lunch monitors.

But honestly subbing would be the most informative. Until you've done that its ignorate bliss. You won't be able to unsee the things you have seen.

Do you think this is the case at so called top tier publics? I don’t know the ranking but I think our local high school is supposed to be one of the top(ish) public schools in the country.

1000%. Special education is everywhere in public schools. It does not discriminate based upon race or income. Its cute though that you don't think there are any rich kids in special education.

I know that about special education. I'm talking about the (hopefully) extremes that people have mentioned here, including repeated assault, evacuations in class, etc. And I didn't say anything about race or income or wealth.

These are special education issues, and yes they happen at all schools. Sorry to burst your bubble about the "top(ish)" school you are zoned for. They still have to service any child who lives in their district, plus any child that is sent there for a program that doesn't exist at their home school.

I don’t remember any of this happening regularly at my top public high school.

Its recent. It didn't happen when we were growing up. Kids were allowed to be punished and removed back then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these posts are making me want to check out my kid’s elementary school. He is in kindergarten through 5th. How would you as a parent even know if these kinds of behaviors are going on? How can I find out about what’s going on at the middle and high school his elementary feeds into?

I know it sounds extreme, but the best way would be to get approved as a sub. Just spend a day or two in each school and you will be seriously considering private school. Also, here are some questions you can ask your child:

Do any kids in the class behave badly or have tantrums or get in trouble a lot? Do other teachers come into the classroom to work with some of the students (this would mean sped or EL teachers are servicing the room.) Do any students get taken out of the room by teachers to go do other things? (This could mean reading specialist, sped teacher, EL teacher, speech therapy, etc.)

Also, at our ES the classes each get a class score or "grade" in specials each day (like PE, art, etc.) and also lunch. You can ask them if their class gets good reports/grades/etc. (whatever their school uses) from the specials teachers and lunch monitors.

But honestly subbing would be the most informative. Until you've done that its ignorate bliss. You won't be able to unsee the things you have seen.

Do you think this is the case at so called top tier publics? I don’t know the ranking but I think our local high school is supposed to be one of the top(ish) public schools in the country.

Funny. I used to be a private school teacher and my experience led me to go with public for my kids. Private has issues too and less resources for special needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these posts are making me want to check out my kid’s elementary school. He is in kindergarten through 5th. How would you as a parent even know if these kinds of behaviors are going on? How can I find out about what’s going on at the middle and high school his elementary feeds into?

I know it sounds extreme, but the best way would be to get approved as a sub. Just spend a day or two in each school and you will be seriously considering private school. Also, here are some questions you can ask your child:

Do any kids in the class behave badly or have tantrums or get in trouble a lot? Do other teachers come into the classroom to work with some of the students (this would mean sped or EL teachers are servicing the room.) Do any students get taken out of the room by teachers to go do other things? (This could mean reading specialist, sped teacher, EL teacher, speech therapy, etc.)

Also, at our ES the classes each get a class score or "grade" in specials each day (like PE, art, etc.) and also lunch. You can ask them if their class gets good reports/grades/etc. (whatever their school uses) from the specials teachers and lunch monitors.

But honestly subbing would be the most informative. Until you've done that its ignorate bliss. You won't be able to unsee the things you have seen.

Do you think this is the case at so called top tier publics? I don’t know the ranking but I think our local high school is supposed to be one of the top(ish) public schools in the country.

Funny. I used to be a private school teacher and my experience led me to go with public for my kids. Private has issues too and less resources for special needs.

You left private because your own DC have special needs and the private school was trying to counsel you out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these posts are making me want to check out my kid’s elementary school. He is in kindergarten through 5th. How would you as a parent even know if these kinds of behaviors are going on? How can I find out about what’s going on at the middle and high school his elementary feeds into?

I know it sounds extreme, but the best way would be to get approved as a sub. Just spend a day or two in each school and you will be seriously considering private school. Also, here are some questions you can ask your child:

Do any kids in the class behave badly or have tantrums or get in trouble a lot? Do other teachers come into the classroom to work with some of the students (this would mean sped or EL teachers are servicing the room.) Do any students get taken out of the room by teachers to go do other things? (This could mean reading specialist, sped teacher, EL teacher, speech therapy, etc.)

Also, at our ES the classes each get a class score or "grade" in specials each day (like PE, art, etc.) and also lunch. You can ask them if their class gets good reports/grades/etc. (whatever their school uses) from the specials teachers and lunch monitors.

But honestly subbing would be the most informative. Until you've done that its ignorate bliss. You won't be able to unsee the things you have seen.

Do you think this is the case at so called top tier publics? I don’t know the ranking but I think our local high school is supposed to be one of the top(ish) public schools in the country.

1000%. Special education is everywhere in public schools. It does not discriminate based upon race or income. Its cute though that you don't think there are any rich kids in special education.

I know that about special education. I'm talking about the (hopefully) extremes that people have mentioned here, including repeated assault, evacuations in class, etc. And I didn't say anything about race or income or wealth.

These are special education issues, and yes they happen at all schools. Sorry to burst your bubble about the "top(ish)" school you are zoned for. They still have to service any child who lives in their district, plus any child that is sent there for a program that doesn't exist at their home school.

I don’t remember any of this happening regularly at my top public high school.

By high school there’s usually a plethora of data that supports moving an out of control student to an alternative school or at least placing them in small group classes. K-2 always gets boned because parents are a lot more likely to push back when their child is 6 vs when he’s 16. Also, if you’ve been out of high school for at least 25 years, you probably weren’t even in the same building as those kids.

It’s partly this and also the behavior escalates as the kids age, so it’s more egregious. That said, my 9th grade DD has had a boy in her grade starting in MS (he didn’t go to our ES) who gets a classroom evacuated a few times a year yet is still mainstreamed. It’s enraging.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean by causing the classroom to be evacuated? Is the student hurting other people? If so you need to get involved. Others have posted re how to get results - see posts up thread.

When a student becomes violent, or acts out in a way that is dangerously disruptive, like throwing things and flipping desks, the entire rest of the class has to leave. They don't remove the child; they remove everyone else. It's hugely disruptive and upsetting to many kids.

This is nuts.

Happens weekly in some classes

Happened weekly to DC in both 1st and 2nd grade: weekly evacuations bc a student throwing tantrums and actual objects: chairs, scissors, teachers mug, other kids’ stuff. Kid purposefully broke the teachers computer … twice. I know all of this for two reasons: I volunteered in the classroom and because DC was punched in the face in 2nd in the cafeteria and it left a mark. Like the poster who said tue kid who hurt hers was assigned a seat in the cafeteria for one week, that was the extent of that kid’s consequences. This kid had an IEP and two lawyer parents. My DC has inattentive ADHD and — even without the physical assault — was totally underserved because of tue chronic disruption.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most of the violent and disruptive kids have parents in the PTA to get preferential treatment. This way, their kids are not suspended or kicked off the school. Teachers and administrators receive generous gifts from corrupt parents.

Teacher and former PTA mom here - absolutely false. The PTA parents are the parents whose kids are not placed in the same classroom with the troublemakers. The troublemaker's parents never come to school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think the pendulum has swung a little too far in terms of the inclusion philosophy at public schools. It's not fair to the teachers or the neurotypical students when there are students in the class who have needs that can't be met in a normal classroom.

If the schools had the resources to provide sufficient staff to help teachers manage those students it might be a different story. But they don't.

Yep, this. It is really unfair the majority of kids that they are held hostage by other kids with these issues. If you are a parent of a child who disrupts the learning of all the other kids, how do you justify yourself? Don’t you feel bad?

They don’t. Their job as a parent is to push what’s best for their kid. Doesn’t matter if your kid is steamrolled in the process. You, and all other parents of kids impacted by behaviorally challenged kids should have the same philosophy. Instead you are expected to have empathy and “give grace”.

So true. It can't be said out loud but it really is true.

My kids are in high school now but I remember a few of the behavior kids from when they were younger. I remember a parent would say they would do anything to keep their kid in the normal classroom because they don't want their kids around "those kids". Meaning the kids in the special schools. All I could think was didn't they realize their own kid was one of "those" kids to the other kids in the general classroom? They didn't want to subject their own kids to "those kids" but didn't have a problem subjecting other kids to their kid.

I volunteered as a scout leader when my kids were also younger. If we would go on a field trip/camp overnight, it was always amazing that the parents of the kids with the behavior problems NEVER volunteered to come on the field trip/overnight. They would just want to drop their kid off and expect all the other volunteers to deal with their kid. I remember this one time after a weekend trip in which the kid was just so misbehaved, we talked to the parents asking what was up. They neglected to write on the health form their daughter had ADHD. They neglected to give her her medicine during that weekend because they liked to give her breaks from medicine on weekend. WTF?

I don't think majority of parents are equipped to truly parent kids with special needs that result in behavior problems. They are too tired when they come home from work to probably really work with their kids. They are exhausted themselves and want other people to deal with the problems. They don't want to have different kids. They want their kids to be in general classrooms even though they shouldn't be. They also don't want their kids around "those" kids.

This. Not exactly the same, but there's one mom who does "volunteer" for room parties who has a really disruptive kid, but she literally sits in a corner and plays on her phone. Doesn't help at all, not even with her own kid. Her kid was being a hateful little $hit at the last party and I actually said to her "Larla, please do not speak to me that way." Her mom was like 3 feet away and she didn't even look up.

[Anonymous]

I am concerned that some of these posts seem to be attributing these behaviors to minority and poor kids. I attended a minority majority school in a small Southern town--my graduating class was 72% black, we had socioeconomic diversity ranging from rich kids to kids on welfare, and there was a literal orphanage in my town. We absolutely did not have issues like what I witnessed in my kids' ES, like kids eloping from the school and rolling around on the floor of the classroom. The main differences were cohesive communities (church attendance and community involvement meant people knew each other), small class sizes, and discipline. I don't believe in corporal punishment, but misbehavior was addressed immediately. More spending might help if it results in smaller classes, but schools here are at capacity and building new ones takes forever.

I don't know what the answer is.