Private Schools Wokeness Over the Top

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly OP, I know you have a more thoughtful critique of progressive identity politics than the rest of the anti-woke posters on here. But you are landing in the same place as them: completely eliminate any DEI discussion from schools. Why? Does it not give you any pause that you are aligning yourself with the Ron DeSantises of the world?

Lol land in the same place how? Because I think all this DEI stuff is BS and is harmful? It is. I am not aligning myself with Ron DeSantis because well we have completely different world views. Seems like we are back in the Bush era where “you are either with us, or against us.” According to you if I criticize DEI culture and it’s influence in schools then I am with Ron DeSanctis? I can’t criticize anymore? That’s just insane. Get out of your America bubble. The rest of the non-western world doesn’t agree with the BS being spewed by the cultural left either. What they say is so bizarre, so absurd, that the US has become a laughing stock around the world (read the article on Qatar and the World Cup as an example).

You are landing in the same place because you want to eliminate DEI from schools. Like I said in my post.

I am done engaging with you, you are disingenuous at best. But by all means keep trying to convince yourself that you are different from the rest of the regressive anti-woke MAGAs because you read some race theory in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sadly it’s OP again. Also slightly related to our entire discussion is this critique:

https://intellectualtakeout.org/2023/01/academic-writing-nobody-reads/

Academia is in crisis and it’s probably why there is such a focus on inventing new vocabulary words.

Ok that’s enough from me! I keep trying to leave but keep having more thoughts! Good night for real this time.

I don't think this has anything to do with CRT or wokeness or anything else other than publish or perish. Everyone in academia right up to associate professors is under enormous pressure to constantly publish. Something ground breaking, or even something mildly influential in their subspecialty would be nice, but even if that's not possible they still need to publish something regularly. Blame university hiring panels and tenure panels not CRT for that one.

Not OP. It’s certainly related to the article OP first linked to. All these problems seem to stem from the fact that university professors are intent of coming up with ever so complicated BS that is completely removed from real world issues.

Because there are more academics and people seeking to be academics than there are professorships dealing with real world problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly OP, I know you have a more thoughtful critique of progressive identity politics than the rest of the anti-woke posters on here. But you are landing in the same place as them: completely eliminate any DEI discussion from schools. Why? Does it not give you any pause that you are aligning yourself with the Ron DeSantises of the world?

Not OP, but why should it? If you are intellectually honest, you need to follow things to their logical end. The point isn’t to change everything just to disagree with people you don’t like politically—that is the kind of weak mindedness that has gotten us into such a mess.

England tossed this out of its education realm.
Watch the speeches over the last couple years at the parliament level. Very diverse set of Brits speaking too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly OP, I know you have a more thoughtful critique of progressive identity politics than the rest of the anti-woke posters on here. But you are landing in the same place as them: completely eliminate any DEI discussion from schools. Why? Does it not give you any pause that you are aligning yourself with the Ron DeSantises of the world?

Lol land in the same place how? Because I think all this DEI stuff is BS and is harmful? It is. I am not aligning myself with Ron DeSantis because well we have completely different world views. Seems like we are back in the Bush era where “you are either with us, or against us.” According to you if I criticize DEI culture and it’s influence in schools then I am with Ron DeSanctis? I can’t criticize anymore? That’s just insane. Get out of your America bubble. The rest of the non-western world doesn’t agree with the BS being spewed by the cultural left either. What they say is so bizarre, so absurd, that the US has become a laughing stock around the world (read the article on Qatar and the World Cup as an example).

You are landing in the same place because you want to eliminate DEI from schools. Like I said in my post.

I am done engaging with you, you are disingenuous at best. But by all means keep trying to convince yourself that you are different from the rest of the regressive anti-woke MAGAs because you read some race theory in college.

Ag, the DE&I mindset at its best. You don’t like what they say so you hurl an insult and refuse to engage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you to everyone who has been pushing back in this discussion and elsewhere. I am not sure how to pierce through the insanity that has captures so much of the education establishment, but it needs to happen. A significant course correction is necessary for the sanity and education of today’s students and society generally.

The left seems to be suffering from some sort of mass psychosis. They need to wakeup or be removed from positions of influence.

Oh, think of the children!

Yes, actually. This is a school forum. Children are actually what the focus is here. The fact that you mock that idea says everything—you are more concerned with pushing some objectionable gender or racial ideology than you are with what is actually good for kids. You shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near kids, including own, if you even have any.

You want to take away people’s kids bc their political views are different from yours? But the progressives are the ones we need to fear.

Keep politics out of schools.

It IS this simple.

Keep politics and indoctrination out of schools, you Evangelists and Wokes and Scientologists and Communists.

Schools are for Education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly OP, I know you have a more thoughtful critique of progressive identity politics than the rest of the anti-woke posters on here. But you are landing in the same place as them: completely eliminate any DEI discussion from schools. Why? Does it not give you any pause that you are aligning yourself with the Ron DeSantises of the world?

Lol land in the same place how? Because I think all this DEI stuff is BS and is harmful? It is. I am not aligning myself with Ron DeSantis because well we have completely different world views. Seems like we are back in the Bush era where “you are either with us, or against us.” According to you if I criticize DEI culture and it’s influence in schools then I am with Ron DeSanctis? I can’t criticize anymore? That’s just insane. Get out of your America bubble. The rest of the non-western world doesn’t agree with the BS being spewed by the cultural left either. What they say is so bizarre, so absurd, that the US has become a laughing stock around the world (read the article on Qatar and the World Cup as an example).

You are landing in the same place because you want to eliminate DEI from schools. Like I said in my post.

I am done engaging with you, you are disingenuous at best. But by all means keep trying to convince yourself that you are different from the rest of the regressive anti-woke MAGAs because you read some race theory in college.

Ag, the DE&I mindset at its best. You don’t like what they say so you hurl an insult and refuse to engage.

That’s pretty funny, because when someone pointed out the logical conclusion of your suggestion that we look at China, you insulted them. I guess you aren’t too different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you to everyone who has been pushing back in this discussion and elsewhere. I am not sure how to pierce through the insanity that has captures so much of the education establishment, but it needs to happen. A significant course correction is necessary for the sanity and education of today’s students and society generally.

The left seems to be suffering from some sort of mass psychosis. They need to wakeup or be removed from positions of influence.

Oh, think of the children!

Yes, actually. This is a school forum. Children are actually what the focus is here. The fact that you mock that idea says everything—you are more concerned with pushing some objectionable gender or racial ideology than you are with what is actually good for kids. You shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near kids, including own, if you even have any.

You want to take away people’s kids bc their political views are different from yours? But the progressives are the ones we need to fear.

Keep politics out of schools.

It IS this simple.

Keep politics and indoctrination out of schools, you Evangelists and Wokes and Scientologists and Communists.

Schools are for Education.

You don’t even know what any of what you said means. Just capitalizing random words like your orange god.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly OP, I know you have a more thoughtful critique of progressive identity politics than the rest of the anti-woke posters on here. But you are landing in the same place as them: completely eliminate any DEI discussion from schools. Why? Does it not give you any pause that you are aligning yourself with the Ron DeSantises of the world?

Two options here.

A) you just wrote a very good parody of a typical wokester

B) you are truly unaware of the dangerous, anti-democratic nonsense you wrote. DeSantis just won his second election with 60% of the votes, including MANY in the center and even the left. Because he delivered "good fruits" for years and for the vast majority. But you ask OP to reconsider her points, which you admit make much sense, because otherwise she'd align herself with a popular and proven and just re-elected public official?

Either your school or the crazy US media has eaten your brain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you to everyone who has been pushing back in this discussion and elsewhere. I am not sure how to pierce through the insanity that has captures so much of the education establishment, but it needs to happen. A significant course correction is necessary for the sanity and education of today’s students and society generally.

The left seems to be suffering from some sort of mass psychosis. They need to wakeup or be removed from positions of influence.

Oh, think of the children!

Yes, actually. This is a school forum. Children are actually what the focus is here. The fact that you mock that idea says everything—you are more concerned with pushing some objectionable gender or racial ideology than you are with what is actually good for kids. You shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near kids, including own, if you even have any.

You want to take away people’s kids bc their political views are different from yours? But the progressives are the ones we need to fear.

Keep politics out of schools.

It IS this simple.

Keep politics and indoctrination out of schools, you Evangelists and Wokes and Scientologists and Communists.

Schools are for Education.

No one is forcing you to send your kids to elite private schools. Assuming they could even get in.

Go send your spawn to one of the handmaiden schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly OP, I know you have a more thoughtful critique of progressive identity politics than the rest of the anti-woke posters on here. But you are landing in the same place as them: completely eliminate any DEI discussion from schools. Why? Does it not give you any pause that you are aligning yourself with the Ron DeSantises of the world?

Two options here.

A) you just wrote a very good parody of a typical wokester

B) you are truly unaware of the dangerous, anti-democratic nonsense you wrote. DeSantis just won his second election with 60% of the votes, including MANY in the center and even the left. Because he delivered "good fruits" for years and for the vast majority. But you ask OP to reconsider her points, which you admit make much sense, because otherwise she'd align herself with a popular and proven and just re-elected public official?

Either your school or the crazy US media has eaten your brain.

DeSantis is a human-trafficking POS.

I get why you worship him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly OP, I know you have a more thoughtful critique of progressive identity politics than the rest of the anti-woke posters on here. But you are landing in the same place as them: completely eliminate any DEI discussion from schools. Why? Does it not give you any pause that you are aligning yourself with the Ron DeSantises of the world?

Two options here.

A) you just wrote a very good parody of a typical wokester

B) you are truly unaware of the dangerous, anti-democratic nonsense you wrote. DeSantis just won his second election with 60% of the votes, including MANY in the center and even the left. Because he delivered "good fruits" for years and for the vast majority. But you ask OP to reconsider her points, which you admit make much sense, because otherwise she'd align herself with a popular and proven and just re-elected public official?

Either your school or the crazy US media has eaten your brain.

60% of the votes! I didn’t know you guys believed in election results. Maybe things are improving

But yes, how “anti-democratic” of me to disagree with an elected leader. Throw me in the gulag

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you to everyone who has been pushing back in this discussion and elsewhere. I am not sure how to pierce through the insanity that has captures so much of the education establishment, but it needs to happen. A significant course correction is necessary for the sanity and education of today’s students and society generally.

The left seems to be suffering from some sort of mass psychosis. They need to wakeup or be removed from positions of influence.

Oh, think of the children!

Yes, actually. This is a school forum. Children are actually what the focus is here. The fact that you mock that idea says everything—you are more concerned with pushing some objectionable gender or racial ideology than you are with what is actually good for kids. You shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near kids, including own, if you even have any.

You want to take away people’s kids bc their political views are different from yours? But the progressives are the ones we need to fear.

Keep politics out of schools.

It IS this simple.

Keep politics and indoctrination out of schools, you Evangelists and Wokes and Scientologists and Communists.

Schools are for Education.

You don’t even know what any of what you said means. Just capitalizing random words like your orange god.

Views of history and society they agree with are “education”; views they disagree with are “politics”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly OP, I know you have a more thoughtful critique of progressive identity politics than the rest of the anti-woke posters on here. But you are landing in the same place as them: completely eliminate any DEI discussion from schools. Why? Does it not give you any pause that you are aligning yourself with the Ron DeSantises of the world?

Lol land in the same place how? Because I think all this DEI stuff is BS and is harmful? It is. I am not aligning myself with Ron DeSantis because well we have completely different world views. Seems like we are back in the Bush era where “you are either with us, or against us.” According to you if I criticize DEI culture and it’s influence in schools then I am with Ron DeSanctis? I can’t criticize anymore? That’s just insane. Get out of your America bubble. The rest of the non-western world doesn’t agree with the BS being spewed by the cultural left either. What they say is so bizarre, so absurd, that the US has become a laughing stock around the world (read the article on Qatar and the World Cup as an example).

You are landing in the same place because you want to eliminate DEI from schools. Like I said in my post.

I am done engaging with you, you are disingenuous at best. But by all means keep trying to convince yourself that you are different from the rest of the regressive anti-woke MAGAs because you read some race theory in college.

OP here. You are done engaging with me that's fine. But to accuse me of being disingenuous is not. I have my views. You may disagree with them and you clearly don't understand them, but to reduce my views to "race theories" I read in college is absolutely disgusting. You clearly cannot take yourself out of the tiny little bubble of US politics. The world is a large place and most of us non-westerners thinking what US progressives are spewing these days is complete nonsense (and yes we can't stand conservative politicians who want to bomb us either). There are a lot of people who think like me - you just haven't been exposed to them. Speaking of ppl, I haven't read his book or watched the interview about the book but I am excited about Norman Finkelstein's new book "I'll Burn that Bridge When I get to It: Heretical Thoughts on Identity Politics, Cancel Culture, and Academic Freedom."

As for Ron DeSantis, well I'm not a fan (though I get his normie appeal). I'm actually not a fan of the majority of US politicians except Bernie Sanders I guess - he seems like an honest guy (though post 2020 Bernie Sanders seems to adopted some identity politics language after he was criticized in 2016 by the clintonites). Bernie is popular in the Arab world - viewed as a person with a good heart (though I think he gets it wrong sometimes).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly OP, I know you have a more thoughtful critique of progressive identity politics than the rest of the anti-woke posters on here. But you are landing in the same place as them: completely eliminate any DEI discussion from schools. Why? Does it not give you any pause that you are aligning yourself with the Ron DeSantises of the world?

Lol land in the same place how? Because I think all this DEI stuff is BS and is harmful? It is. I am not aligning myself with Ron DeSantis because well we have completely different world views. Seems like we are back in the Bush era where “you are either with us, or against us.” According to you if I criticize DEI culture and it’s influence in schools then I am with Ron DeSanctis? I can’t criticize anymore? That’s just insane. Get out of your America bubble. The rest of the non-western world doesn’t agree with the BS being spewed by the cultural left either. What they say is so bizarre, so absurd, that the US has become a laughing stock around the world (read the article on Qatar and the World Cup as an example).

You are landing in the same place because you want to eliminate DEI from schools. Like I said in my post.

I am done engaging with you, you are disingenuous at best. But by all means keep trying to convince yourself that you are different from the rest of the regressive anti-woke MAGAs because you read some race theory in college.

OP here. You are done engaging with me that's fine. But to accuse me of being disingenuous is not. I have my views. You may disagree with them and you clearly don't understand them, but to reduce my views to "race theories" I read in college is absolutely disgusting. You clearly cannot take yourself out of the tiny little bubble of US politics. The world is a large place and most of us non-westerners thinking what US progressives are spewing these days is complete nonsense (and yes we can't stand conservative politicians who want to bomb us either). There are a lot of people who think like me - you just haven't been exposed to them. Speaking of ppl, I haven't read his book or watched the interview about the book but I am excited about Norman Finkelstein's new book "I'll Burn that Bridge When I get to It: Heretical Thoughts on Identity Politics, Cancel Culture, and Academic Freedom."

As for Ron DeSantis, well I'm not a fan (though I get his normie appeal). I'm actually not a fan of the majority of US politicians except Bernie Sanders I guess - he seems like an honest guy (though post 2020 Bernie Sanders seems to adopted some identity politics language after he was criticized in 2016 by the clintonites). Bernie is popular in the Arab world - viewed as a person with a good heart (though I think he gets it wrong sometimes).

OP again. In case you don't know who Norman Finkelstein is - he's a leftist academic who was denied tenure at DePaul University because of his anti-Israel views. He was the first victim of "cancel culture" and was cancelled by Dershowitz, Bari Weiss and the like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I believe in diversity and equity. The way it is pushed these days is more like a religion where other opinions are not allowed (look at the Hamline University debacle.. I am muslim and every muslim I know thinks what happens is insane). I am a person who is an admirer of Edward Said's book Orientalism as well as the People's History of the United States. I am Arab so am staunchly anti-imperialist. But I think schools have gone overboard. Also there is very little critique of class. I get it - they are private schools. But it is hypocritical to be pushing all of this and ignore the class aspect.

My kids are young - Kindergarten and first grade so they haven't been exposed to a lot of this yet. But I am worried that there is some indoctrination going on.

Sounds like you would be happy for your kids to be taught about the specific type of oppression that has affected people of your ethnicity/religion. But you chafe at having to think about any injustice that doesn't affect you personally (or a group you identify with).

Maybe think about why that is

Not really. The "People's History of the United States" talks about oppression of the various minority groups in the US. I also mentioned in a separate post that I am a big fan of Cornell West and Reverend Barbar who focus mostly on anti-black racism within the US and income inequality. Also really like James Baldwin. The problem is that you can't understand why a person who is against colonialism, racism etc. is also against this new progressive ideology. There is a huge difference between Cornell West and Kendi. The difference between the two is why I just can't stand this new DEI crap.

More power to you, OP! I’m African American and it drives me crazy that people think I must be alt right or something if I don’t like Kendi, as if he represents some sort of gospel of black intellectual thought. Plenty of black people have better takes on racism than Kendi. But their takes tend to me more complicated (as the truth often is) and less amenable to DEI buzz word reduction.

OP here. Thanks PP! Yes exactly! The problem with Kendi are that his takes are too simplistic and reductive. There are so many people with better takes out there that are just regular people who aren't making money off of their takes.

Not sure how this is possible as I'm not a Christian believer but I'm 100% convinced that Jesus had Kendi and fellow wokes in mind when, during the Sermon on the Mount, he (supposedly) said:

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them."

Actually he had the Evangelicals in mind, who claim to be Christians, but then support ideology diametrically opposed to Christianity

Actually Evangelicals and Wokes are very similar to each other in beliefs and attitudes, simply changing a few keywords here and there.

As opposed to actual Liberals and post-enlightenment thinkers.

Yep both are quite simplistic in their thinking and love painting the world as black and white.

bOtH sIdEs

Only one side has actually caused significant damage to our country. Exactly who is "woke" and how much miney are they raising? What is the organization or organizations? Who is part of their movement? I am all ears on this, particularly as compared to the Evangelicals, who have hijacked our country and sending it off a cliff.

Oh mean Soros money? Or the public schools buying curricula from LGBTQIA2+ activist groups circa 2020?

In 2023 we’re still going with OMG GEORGE SOROS! as a right-wing talking point?

You’re not oppressed, you’re just lazy.