Diversity of schools - can this work both ways? Am I being unreasonable?

[Anonymous]

Asians act like they don’t know American history. The white man hated you too, you know.

[Anonymous]

the problem with claiming to only want to attend a school that “looks like the neighborhood” is its on some level a pretext/cover for avoiding a harder look at the underlying implicit biases and systemic prejudices. learning in public by courtney martin is a pretty good book.

[Anonymous]

there are a lot of threads on middle school eotp where a segment of posters say nothing less than a fully segregated honors track school within a school set-up would be sufficient for them to opt into their neighborhood middle school and its like oh these posters may claim its just academics but really its in some part at bottom about socially segregating larlo from the very poor kids in the neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

This thread is a waste of time. If you’re desperately seeking racists and elitists among fellow DC parents at every turn, you will surely find them in a city without formal advanced programs in ES and MS in DCPS, other than for math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:there are a lot of threads on middle school eotp where a segment of posters say nothing less than a fully segregated honors track school within a school set-up would be sufficient for them to opt into their neighborhood middle school and its like oh these posters may claim its just academics but really its in some part at bottom about socially segregating larlo from the very poor kids in the neighborhood.

Honors track is a must and race shouldn't matter.

[Anonymous]

It helps more to have honors track, instead of using charters as a solution to help students and families who are more interested in academics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread is a waste of time. If you’re desperately seeking racists and elitists among fellow DC parents at every turn, you will surely find them in a city without formal advanced programs in ES and MS in DCPS, other than for math.

+1. The joke is that DCPS/DCPCS is not very fertile ground for finding racists and elitists. Private schools, far-flung Virginia suburbs, middle America -- there are much better places to look.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It helps more to have honors track, instead of using charters as a solution to help students and families who are more interested in academics.

+1, the charters just allow families to self-segregate by socioeconomic class which becomes a proxy for race. If you offered an honors track or some AAP programming at IB schools, and no charters, you'd still lose high SES families to privates but some would choose the public (just as you see in many of the suburban districts). If some high SES families choose their neighborhood public, this makes MC families feel more comfortable attendant them. This would keep not only more white and Asian families in IB schools, but also more MC and UMC black families, many of whom now choose charters or privates to keep their kids out of IB schools with poor academics.

This would result in TRUE diversity. Not just some quota system of races, but kids across a broader range of SES classes from a variety of racial backgrounds. Yes, you'd have to deal with how racism and classism played out in the honors or AAP tracks. But I'd personally rather try to figure that out that the current system, where high SES families just send their kids to mediocre charters and these kids barely even interact. How does that make it better for anyone?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It helps more to have honors track, instead of using charters as a solution to help students and families who are more interested in academics.

+1, the charters just allow families to self-segregate by socioeconomic class which becomes a proxy for race. If you offered an honors track or some AAP programming at IB schools, and no charters, you'd still lose high SES families to privates but some would choose the public (just as you see in many of the suburban districts). If some high SES families choose their neighborhood public, this makes MC families feel more comfortable attendant them. This would keep not only more white and Asian families in IB schools, but also more MC and UMC black families, many of whom now choose charters or privates to keep their kids out of IB schools with poor academics.

This would result in TRUE diversity. Not just some quota system of races, but kids across a broader range of SES classes from a variety of racial backgrounds. Yes, you'd have to deal with how racism and classism played out in the honors or AAP tracks. But I'd personally rather try to figure that out that the current system, where high SES families just send their kids to mediocre charters and these kids barely even interact. How does that make it better for anyone?

OP here. I think you make a good point about an honors track perhaps being a better option than a charter for this reason. But I think it's clear that you didn't live in DC before about 2012. Before there were a bunch of charter options, what happened is that MC and UMC people (black and white, though mostly white) moved to the burbs, which is worse than an honors track, AND worse than charters - it's complete segregation. So while charters are clearly imperfect, they've created an opportunity for MC and UMC folks to raise their kids in DC proper. And that, combined with free PK3-4, has actually INCREASES diversity at DCPS elementary schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It helps more to have honors track, instead of using charters as a solution to help students and families who are more interested in academics.

+1, the charters just allow families to self-segregate by socioeconomic class which becomes a proxy for race. If you offered an honors track or some AAP programming at IB schools, and no charters, you'd still lose high SES families to privates but some would choose the public (just as you see in many of the suburban districts). If some high SES families choose their neighborhood public, this makes MC families feel more comfortable attendant them. This would keep not only more white and Asian families in IB schools, but also more MC and UMC black families, many of whom now choose charters or privates to keep their kids out of IB schools with poor academics.

This would result in TRUE diversity. Not just some quota system of races, but kids across a broader range of SES classes from a variety of racial backgrounds. Yes, you'd have to deal with how racism and classism played out in the honors or AAP tracks. But I'd personally rather try to figure that out that the current system, where high SES families just send their kids to mediocre charters and these kids barely even interact. How does that make it better for anyone?

OP here. I think you make a good point about an honors track perhaps being a better option than a charter for this reason. But I think it's clear that you didn't live in DC before about 2012. Before there were a bunch of charter options, what happened is that MC and UMC people (black and white, though mostly white) moved to the burbs, which is worse than an honors track, AND worse than charters - it's complete segregation. So while charters are clearly imperfect, they've created an opportunity for MC and UMC folks to raise their kids in DC proper. And that, combined with free PK3-4, has actually INCREASES diversity at DCPS elementary schools.

No I get it. I didn't have kids in DCPS prior to the proliferation of charters but I've been in DC a long time and understand the dynamics. I get why the charters started and agree it was a much better option than status quo and has also been good for DC economically by keeping more people in the city after they have kid. The improved options in DC public schools contributed to our decision to buy a home in DC in 2013, because we were more confident than we would have been 5-6 years prior that we could raise kids in the city.

But I also think that it's past time to address some of the shortcomings in the charter system, and look critically at the negative impacts. The state of MS and HS options in the city chief among them. Keeping people in DC after they have kids is great, but what would be really cool is if those people didn't have to face the exact same decision-making process the charters helped them avoid a few years later. It used to be "we're having a baby; we're moving to Bethesda." Now it's "we didn't get into Basis or Latin; we're moving to Kensington." Yay?

[Anonymous]

Honors, shmonors…I refuse to jump on the band wagon for honors tracking until Banneker becomes more diverse. Until then, this constant claim is a red herring for true intent of further segregation.

[Anonymous]

There's also, we're moving to Bethesda because we want a public middle and high school offering a well-rounded education, with playing fields and serious sports, a strong music and performing arts program, first-rate facilities, a choice of half a dozen modern languages taught from 6th grade (or even earlier), IB Diploma with internationally competitive points totals at the finish line, advanced middle school classes outside of math, and more.

The harsh truth is that BASIS, Latin, DCI, Inspired Teaching etc. and the highest-performing DCPS high schools (Wilson, Walls, Banneker) don't offer half of what the strongest suburban middle and high school programs do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honors, shmonors…I refuse to jump on the band wagon for honors tracking until Banneker becomes more diverse. Until then, this constant claim is a red herring for true intent of further segregation.

A lot of Banneker families don't want it to get more diverse, though. Part of the appeal of Banneker for many black families is that it offers strong academics but is unabashedly focused on attracting black families. I know black families who think of it as akin to an HBCU. It's fine if white or Asian kids go there, but they are proud that it is a predominantly black school. I don't think they share your frustration that its is not diverse enough.

Look, I don't believe in the concept of "reverse racism." If you are not an historically oppressed group, you can't experience racism. White people cannot experience racism in the US. But if we are talking not about racism but self-segregation, it's worth discussing the fact that it goes both ways. A lot of the self-segregation in DC is initiated by black families. Often for good reasons! But this means that white families who go with the status quo and participate in this segregation aren't doing enough to diversify, but also white families that move to black neighborhoods or attend black schools are gentrifying interlopers. So..... this is why a lot of white families dream of a more diverse education option because they feel trapped between two options in which they are the problem and they want a third option in which they can at least feel like part of a solution.

[Anonymous]

its not “desperately seeking racists and elitists” - its instead examining the gap between highly liberal progressive values and behavior. why, for example, is it that for a lot of people the number of higher income white kids becomes a proxy or measure used to determine school quality?

[Anonymous]

Here’s the big issue: the educational attainment trajectories of white and assimilated DC and what it means for their children are not in line with projections for the children of Hispanic and Black DC. The exceptions are small. The school system can pick a single trajectory aligned to where high achiever DC families’ kids are headed. They can pick a quasi remedial level that “meets Black DC children where they are” and coasts along. They can also track either by segregating among or within schools.

This is not kind.

However I’d offer instead of the above insults (which I wrote!) an unrealistic challenge. Why not offer only the high level track? Why assume that kids will fail? Why not create a generation that is Change?

I’m tired of thinking that my kids’ friends will fail because they aren’t comfortably supported by two professional parents. Why not challenge DC to put them onto the hard work and then ask DC to help? With money, with volunteering, everything.

I have a middle schooler and want my kids’ friends in Algebra in 8th grade. That doesn’t seem impossible and it seems important if they’re gonna succeed later in life. Why does DC coast instead of asking us to buckle up and help?

I’m tired of accepting that there’s some underclass of poor performers. Where individuals get attention they always seem reachable. So why not strive for more?

That’s my rant. Enjoy your weekends!