If you are a working mom, why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find sitting around while kids nap painfully boring.

They sleep 10 hours a night and 4 hours a day.

If I work 8 hours I only miss 4 hours of their life. I think it’s weird to want to be with your kids every.single.minute.

I think even SAHM’s agree that is why they are so into independent play. So they aren’t even with their kids every.single.minute.

I don’t clean.

I love to cook though.

I don’t want to be sick of my kids. I treasure all my time with them. I’m the crazy mom that will do the “carpool” but not ask you to drive. I love getting home from work and doing play dates. I love the zoo at 5pm-8pm.

My H feels the same way.

You wouldn't be "bored" for the four hours a day they were sleeping if you stayed home with them. You'd be grateful for the four hours of rest, peace and quiet. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Well, some people like to be intellectually stimulated. And sitting at home while a kid naps isn't great for that. Maybe you have no idea what you're talking about.

Meh, I like to be mentally stimulated as well - but as someone who has been both a full time sahm and someone who currently works full time with high schoolers - the amount of stress of working far exceeds the amount of mental stimulation occurring. I actually get far more mental stimulation helping my kids with their homework than I do with a full day of my job or when I had more Time for reading when my kids napped. I actually read A TON when my kids were young and I wasn't working. I reread and read all the classics and loved every second of it. Less time to do that now.

People walking around complaining that being a mom to young children isn't "mentally stimulating" enough for them are missing the point. Your job is to use YOUR brain to stimulate THEIR brains. Not just to walk around pompously talking about how boring you find nap time.

I agree with you, but apparently many parents feel that their children are better off spending that time with underpaid, undereducated, under dedicated and often constantly changing daycare workers. Not to say that some daycare workers and situations aren't okay but I much preferred to be my children's primary influence when they were birth to about age 4 with some half day preschool thrown in. I didn't find it boring at all, I had plenty to do to stimulate my mind and theirs and to keep life interesting. Then when they were in school full time I pursued my career. It worked out great, my kids are grown now and they are my evidence that I did the right thing for my family. Certainly not for everyone obviously but kind or ridiculous to assume all SAHMs are going to be bored while the baby takes a nap.

It baffles me that you think the kind of woman with a career worth going back to, who is successful in her field, doesn’t vet her childcare providers. The only point I agree with is that they’re underpaid and that’s why I make it my business to give extremely generous gifts. Undereducated? My daughter’s infant teacher didn’t have a college degree, you’re right. She did have grandchildren, humor, kindness and endless patience. Underdedicated? Not if you’re in a place that values their staff and treats them well. Same about “constantly changing”.

Honestly your views on the people, primarily women, who work in childcare say quite a lot about you. If you want to be hostile to my choice to return to work— or insecure about your choice to stay home— that’s cool. But bashing women who work in childcare in this high cost of living area is a pretty ugly look.

Your anecdotal evidence based on your own childcare providers doesn't actually prove much. I have worked at a daycare center, provided home daycare and know a number of daycare workers. I'm not bashing women who work in childcare centers, I'm talking about who is actually the typical daycare provider (not all) and they are underpaid, they are under educated and staff changes often which indicates under dedicated. I'm not making this up. You can deny it, or you can say your nanny makes great money and has a advanced degree but that doesn't change the demographics of typical daycare providers in this country.

I'm pretty sick of some working moms who act like any idiot can properly care for infants and toddlers. I disagree. For my own kids I felt it was important to provide their early childcare myself. My husband wanted to do it too but he made more money than me so he reluctantly agreed to work but he definitely wanted to stay home with our kids when they were little. I had no problem establishing a career once they were in school.

I think society is paying a price for so many kids being raised by subpar daycare workers. Not ALL kids, but definitely a significant number. You can take that as hostility toward you if you want but I have zero insecurity about my decision to stay home with my kids before they started school. They are adults and they are all the proof I need that I did the right thing.

The trouble with trying to backtrack on Internet forums is that the quote function is right there. So, let’s review how you chose to “not bash” women in childcare centers, shall we?

“many parents feel that their children are better off spending that time with underpaid, undereducated, under dedicated and often constantly changing daycare workers.”

Everyone agrees with you that childcare workers in the United States are underpaid. Where I found your comments to be absolutely disgusting was in calling them “underdedicated”. Particularly in the pandemic, childcare workers who were caring for the children of doctors and nurses were risking their lives and staying on the job when, in many cases, unemployment benefits would have been giving them more money then their salaries. That is remarkably dedicated and did they get a word of praise from media, as doctors, nurses and grocery store clerks did? I sure didn’t hear it.

Now if we want to take your personal anecdata I absolutely believe you that you worked in daycare centers providing subpar care, and provided home daycare that was subpar. Your sample size of one bad daycare provider is accepted. I will also believe you that you were underpaid, undereducated and underdedicated, as you would be the most relevant expert on that fact.

I also have to quibble with your idea that “many mothers” believe that “any idiot” can take care of an infant. Do fathers all undergo brainwashing on the day that childcare is chosen? Does my MBA-wielding husband somehow lose his ability to do analyses that day? Remarkable.

I feel like you are being severely judgmental toward me, I can only assume it comes from a place of insecurity about your own decisions. I'm sure you see at least a kernel of truth in what I said but feel compelled to argue with it anyway and attack me personally, as others also have, even though none of you have one iota of knowledge about me, my background, my actual experiences or my relationship with my own children (which another PP was quite sure she could characterize accurately) which makes perfect sense to me because I'm quite sure many working parents have many misgivings about who is caring for their children when they are infants and toddlers. I notice nobody has argued at all with the concept that our society is paying a heavy price for all the children who are being cared for in subpar daycare situations during their critical first years. Hard to argue with that. Especially since there is evidence everywhere.

The reason I’m not engaging with your “society is going to pay a heavy price!” malarkey is because, as pointed out elsewhere in this thread, society is literally held together by mothers who work. They’re your grandchild’s heart surgeon, if god forbid they need it. They’re our nurses. They’re our teachers. They’re our lawyers and our diplomats and our scientists. When you show up at your doctors office in pain, do you want someone to care for you or not? Do you want someone to answer 911 when you call, or not?

You are not some kind of a victim just because people are telling you that you’re wrong.

I don't see myself as any kind of victim, however apparently on DCUM the worst insult or comment you can make is that someone makes you or others feel judged. So I thought I'd try it too since others are trying to attack me by saying I am extremely judgmental. Just pointing out, all of you are as well.

Also, I have no problem whatsoever with women in every possible job or career. I just also think our children deserve the best quality care when they are infants and toddlers and i also think many women today refuse to see that. I think women and I guess men too prioritize having a bigger house, a better car, vacations, etc.. as well as prioritizing their careers, over what is best for their kids at that young age. I believe infants and toddlers deserve to be cared for primarily by someone who loves and adores them more than anything else in the world and wants the absolute best for them. I get that many parents these days have decided that nannies and daycare workers can do that just as well as parents. I disagree. So there's my opinion, feel free to skewer me for it as many will do. I can handle it.

OK, then the next time you go to the doctors office, ask the receptionist if she has children. If she says yes, offer to wait until a receptionist that doesn’t comes on duty. You don’t mind a few hours in the waiting room extra, right? When you go to the dentist make sure not to benefit from a mother whose child is being denied the best quality care— because obviously that would be hugely hypocritical, right? Make sure you only schedule appointments with male dental hygienists and practitioners.

It sounds like you’re aged past this but the United States has a serious, serious shortage of OB/GYNs. Make sure you’re not taking up the time of any of them with young children please— I’m sure a few extra months waiting for routine screening is not going to kill you. On the other hand mammography is almost entirely carried out by women so if you want mothers out of that field…we’ll that just might kill you!

Personally I’m profoundly grateful for whatever childcare arrangement the ER doctor had when we rushed my father in on Christmas a few years ago. Because we still have my father. I know several of his ICU nurses had young children because we talked about them. My family is blessed by them, again, because we still have my father. I don’t know where you think a bunch of childless, fully trained ICU nurses is going to magically appear from to provide this “no working mothers of young children!” Fantasy of yours, but while you’re so upset by it, you should take the first step and see how your own life would be different without them.

It is not true that these professions and professional worker's positions would not be filled if parents planned for and found a way to provide their own childcare when their children are very young. It is simply no longer a priority for many young parents and I think that's a mistake. I have a lot of sympathy for those who literally cannot survive without two incomes and I think they are the people who deserve the best in paid childcare, but that typically is not the case. People with means are the ones who get the best paid childcare for their children. As a result many of the workers you describe as well as service workers are left with whatever daycare they can afford. Doctors and lawyers are paying high wages for nannies and elite daycare, but what about the rest? Do you seriously think those childcare situations are the best for those children?

Part of the problem is that young parents don't value their own ability to provide the best start for their kids and are being led to believe that daycare providers can do a better job. Therefore they often don't plan accordingly so that they would at least have the opportunity to stay home for a few years, whether it's one parent or shared by both. I know young parents, especially mothers, who are stunned by how much they want to stay home with their babies but did not consider that possibility when planning their families and future lives and careers.

Man, I hope when my kids are grown that I’m not spending my days creepily haunting the message boards of new mothers like this PP does.

I suspect the point about how shallow her own relationship with her adult children is was spot-on, which is why she spends her days hating new mothers the way she does. She’s resentful of them.

I get that you don't like the idea of people having opinions different from yours, especially older people, and that drives you to lash out at me personally as if you know anything about my relationship with my adult children. Here's a news flash: If you spend your child's first few years with them out of love and devotion to their welfare it's pretty unlikely they are then going to grow up and have a "shallow" relationship with you as adults. So don't you worry about us, we are fine. You can pretend you have some evidence that I hate new mothers but you actually know there is no truth to that either. And by the way, this is not a "message board of new mothers" just so you know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find sitting around while kids nap painfully boring.

They sleep 10 hours a night and 4 hours a day.

If I work 8 hours I only miss 4 hours of their life. I think it’s weird to want to be with your kids every.single.minute.

I think even SAHM’s agree that is why they are so into independent play. So they aren’t even with their kids every.single.minute.

I don’t clean.

I love to cook though.

I don’t want to be sick of my kids. I treasure all my time with them. I’m the crazy mom that will do the “carpool” but not ask you to drive. I love getting home from work and doing play dates. I love the zoo at 5pm-8pm.

My H feels the same way.

You wouldn't be "bored" for the four hours a day they were sleeping if you stayed home with them. You'd be grateful for the four hours of rest, peace and quiet. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Well, some people like to be intellectually stimulated. And sitting at home while a kid naps isn't great for that. Maybe you have no idea what you're talking about.

Meh, I like to be mentally stimulated as well - but as someone who has been both a full time sahm and someone who currently works full time with high schoolers - the amount of stress of working far exceeds the amount of mental stimulation occurring. I actually get far more mental stimulation helping my kids with their homework than I do with a full day of my job or when I had more Time for reading when my kids napped. I actually read A TON when my kids were young and I wasn't working. I reread and read all the classics and loved every second of it. Less time to do that now.

People walking around complaining that being a mom to young children isn't "mentally stimulating" enough for them are missing the point. Your job is to use YOUR brain to stimulate THEIR brains. Not just to walk around pompously talking about how boring you find nap time.

I agree with you, but apparently many parents feel that their children are better off spending that time with underpaid, undereducated, under dedicated and often constantly changing daycare workers. Not to say that some daycare workers and situations aren't okay but I much preferred to be my children's primary influence when they were birth to about age 4 with some half day preschool thrown in. I didn't find it boring at all, I had plenty to do to stimulate my mind and theirs and to keep life interesting. Then when they were in school full time I pursued my career. It worked out great, my kids are grown now and they are my evidence that I did the right thing for my family. Certainly not for everyone obviously but kind or ridiculous to assume all SAHMs are going to be bored while the baby takes a nap.

It baffles me that you think the kind of woman with a career worth going back to, who is successful in her field, doesn’t vet her childcare providers. The only point I agree with is that they’re underpaid and that’s why I make it my business to give extremely generous gifts. Undereducated? My daughter’s infant teacher didn’t have a college degree, you’re right. She did have grandchildren, humor, kindness and endless patience. Underdedicated? Not if you’re in a place that values their staff and treats them well. Same about “constantly changing”.

Honestly your views on the people, primarily women, who work in childcare say quite a lot about you. If you want to be hostile to my choice to return to work— or insecure about your choice to stay home— that’s cool. But bashing women who work in childcare in this high cost of living area is a pretty ugly look.

Your anecdotal evidence based on your own childcare providers doesn't actually prove much. I have worked at a daycare center, provided home daycare and know a number of daycare workers. I'm not bashing women who work in childcare centers, I'm talking about who is actually the typical daycare provider (not all) and they are underpaid, they are under educated and staff changes often which indicates under dedicated. I'm not making this up. You can deny it, or you can say your nanny makes great money and has a advanced degree but that doesn't change the demographics of typical daycare providers in this country.

I'm pretty sick of some working moms who act like any idiot can properly care for infants and toddlers. I disagree. For my own kids I felt it was important to provide their early childcare myself. My husband wanted to do it too but he made more money than me so he reluctantly agreed to work but he definitely wanted to stay home with our kids when they were little. I had no problem establishing a career once they were in school.

I think society is paying a price for so many kids being raised by subpar daycare workers. Not ALL kids, but definitely a significant number. You can take that as hostility toward you if you want but I have zero insecurity about my decision to stay home with my kids before they started school. They are adults and they are all the proof I need that I did the right thing.

The trouble with trying to backtrack on Internet forums is that the quote function is right there. So, let’s review how you chose to “not bash” women in childcare centers, shall we?

“many parents feel that their children are better off spending that time with underpaid, undereducated, under dedicated and often constantly changing daycare workers.”

Everyone agrees with you that childcare workers in the United States are underpaid. Where I found your comments to be absolutely disgusting was in calling them “underdedicated”. Particularly in the pandemic, childcare workers who were caring for the children of doctors and nurses were risking their lives and staying on the job when, in many cases, unemployment benefits would have been giving them more money then their salaries. That is remarkably dedicated and did they get a word of praise from media, as doctors, nurses and grocery store clerks did? I sure didn’t hear it.

Now if we want to take your personal anecdata I absolutely believe you that you worked in daycare centers providing subpar care, and provided home daycare that was subpar. Your sample size of one bad daycare provider is accepted. I will also believe you that you were underpaid, undereducated and underdedicated, as you would be the most relevant expert on that fact.

I also have to quibble with your idea that “many mothers” believe that “any idiot” can take care of an infant. Do fathers all undergo brainwashing on the day that childcare is chosen? Does my MBA-wielding husband somehow lose his ability to do analyses that day? Remarkable.

I feel like you are being severely judgmental toward me, I can only assume it comes from a place of insecurity about your own decisions. I'm sure you see at least a kernel of truth in what I said but feel compelled to argue with it anyway and attack me personally, as others also have, even though none of you have one iota of knowledge about me, my background, my actual experiences or my relationship with my own children (which another PP was quite sure she could characterize accurately) which makes perfect sense to me because I'm quite sure many working parents have many misgivings about who is caring for their children when they are infants and toddlers. I notice nobody has argued at all with the concept that our society is paying a heavy price for all the children who are being cared for in subpar daycare situations during their critical first years. Hard to argue with that. Especially since there is evidence everywhere.

The reason I’m not engaging with your “society is going to pay a heavy price!” malarkey is because, as pointed out elsewhere in this thread, society is literally held together by mothers who work. They’re your grandchild’s heart surgeon, if god forbid they need it. They’re our nurses. They’re our teachers. They’re our lawyers and our diplomats and our scientists. When you show up at your doctors office in pain, do you want someone to care for you or not? Do you want someone to answer 911 when you call, or not?

You are not some kind of a victim just because people are telling you that you’re wrong.

I don't see myself as any kind of victim, however apparently on DCUM the worst insult or comment you can make is that someone makes you or others feel judged. So I thought I'd try it too since others are trying to attack me by saying I am extremely judgmental. Just pointing out, all of you are as well.

Also, I have no problem whatsoever with women in every possible job or career. I just also think our children deserve the best quality care when they are infants and toddlers and i also think many women today refuse to see that. I think women and I guess men too prioritize having a bigger house, a better car, vacations, etc.. as well as prioritizing their careers, over what is best for their kids at that young age. I believe infants and toddlers deserve to be cared for primarily by someone who loves and adores them more than anything else in the world and wants the absolute best for them. I get that many parents these days have decided that nannies and daycare workers can do that just as well as parents. I disagree. So there's my opinion, feel free to skewer me for it as many will do. I can handle it.

OK, then the next time you go to the doctors office, ask the receptionist if she has children. If she says yes, offer to wait until a receptionist that doesn’t comes on duty. You don’t mind a few hours in the waiting room extra, right? When you go to the dentist make sure not to benefit from a mother whose child is being denied the best quality care— because obviously that would be hugely hypocritical, right? Make sure you only schedule appointments with male dental hygienists and practitioners.

It sounds like you’re aged past this but the United States has a serious, serious shortage of OB/GYNs. Make sure you’re not taking up the time of any of them with young children please— I’m sure a few extra months waiting for routine screening is not going to kill you. On the other hand mammography is almost entirely carried out by women so if you want mothers out of that field…we’ll that just might kill you!

Personally I’m profoundly grateful for whatever childcare arrangement the ER doctor had when we rushed my father in on Christmas a few years ago. Because we still have my father. I know several of his ICU nurses had young children because we talked about them. My family is blessed by them, again, because we still have my father. I don’t know where you think a bunch of childless, fully trained ICU nurses is going to magically appear from to provide this “no working mothers of young children!” Fantasy of yours, but while you’re so upset by it, you should take the first step and see how your own life would be different without them.

It is not true that these professions and professional worker's positions would not be filled if parents planned for and found a way to provide their own childcare when their children are very young. It is simply no longer a priority for many young parents and I think that's a mistake. I have a lot of sympathy for those who literally cannot survive without two incomes and I think they are the people who deserve the best in paid childcare, but that typically is not the case. People with means are the ones who get the best paid childcare for their children. As a result many of the workers you describe as well as service workers are left with whatever daycare they can afford. Doctors and lawyers are paying high wages for nannies and elite daycare, but what about the rest? Do you seriously think those childcare situations are the best for those children?

Part of the problem is that young parents don't value their own ability to provide the best start for their kids and are being led to believe that daycare providers can do a better job. Therefore they often don't plan accordingly so that they would at least have the opportunity to stay home for a few years, whether it's one parent or shared by both. I know young parents, especially mothers, who are stunned by how much they want to stay home with their babies but did not consider that possibility when planning their families and future lives and careers.

Man, I hope when my kids are grown that I’m not spending my days creepily haunting the message boards of new mothers like this PP does.

I suspect the point about how shallow her own relationship with her adult children is was spot-on, which is why she spends her days hating new mothers the way she does. She’s resentful of them.

I get that you don't like the idea of people having opinions different from yours, especially older people, and that drives you to lash out at me personally as if you know anything about my relationship with my adult children. Here's a news flash: If you spend your child's first few years with them out of love and devotion to their welfare it's pretty unlikely they are then going to grow up and have a "shallow" relationship with you as adults. So don't you worry about us, we are fine. You can pretend you have some evidence that I hate new mothers but you actually know there is no truth to that either. And by the way, this is not a "message board of new mothers" just so you know.

Not the pp you are responding to and I don’t claim to know what kind of relationship you have with your kids. But you have many PPs calling you on your insulting views over more than one evening! Maybe step back and consider why you believe people are putting kids in daycare because they prioritize vacations? WTH? And there isn’t any consistent evidence that kids that go to daycare are worse off. There just isn’t. You have some weird axe to grind and your views are inaccurate and rude to the vast majority of working women and moms. THAT’S why people are responding to you as they are. Clue in!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find sitting around while kids nap painfully boring.

They sleep 10 hours a night and 4 hours a day.

If I work 8 hours I only miss 4 hours of their life. I think it’s weird to want to be with your kids every.single.minute.

I think even SAHM’s agree that is why they are so into independent play. So they aren’t even with their kids every.single.minute.

I don’t clean.

I love to cook though.

I don’t want to be sick of my kids. I treasure all my time with them. I’m the crazy mom that will do the “carpool” but not ask you to drive. I love getting home from work and doing play dates. I love the zoo at 5pm-8pm.

My H feels the same way.

You wouldn't be "bored" for the four hours a day they were sleeping if you stayed home with them. You'd be grateful for the four hours of rest, peace and quiet. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Well, some people like to be intellectually stimulated. And sitting at home while a kid naps isn't great for that. Maybe you have no idea what you're talking about.

Meh, I like to be mentally stimulated as well - but as someone who has been both a full time sahm and someone who currently works full time with high schoolers - the amount of stress of working far exceeds the amount of mental stimulation occurring. I actually get far more mental stimulation helping my kids with their homework than I do with a full day of my job or when I had more Time for reading when my kids napped. I actually read A TON when my kids were young and I wasn't working. I reread and read all the classics and loved every second of it. Less time to do that now.

People walking around complaining that being a mom to young children isn't "mentally stimulating" enough for them are missing the point. Your job is to use YOUR brain to stimulate THEIR brains. Not just to walk around pompously talking about how boring you find nap time.

I agree with you, but apparently many parents feel that their children are better off spending that time with underpaid, undereducated, under dedicated and often constantly changing daycare workers. Not to say that some daycare workers and situations aren't okay but I much preferred to be my children's primary influence when they were birth to about age 4 with some half day preschool thrown in. I didn't find it boring at all, I had plenty to do to stimulate my mind and theirs and to keep life interesting. Then when they were in school full time I pursued my career. It worked out great, my kids are grown now and they are my evidence that I did the right thing for my family. Certainly not for everyone obviously but kind or ridiculous to assume all SAHMs are going to be bored while the baby takes a nap.

It baffles me that you think the kind of woman with a career worth going back to, who is successful in her field, doesn’t vet her childcare providers. The only point I agree with is that they’re underpaid and that’s why I make it my business to give extremely generous gifts. Undereducated? My daughter’s infant teacher didn’t have a college degree, you’re right. She did have grandchildren, humor, kindness and endless patience. Underdedicated? Not if you’re in a place that values their staff and treats them well. Same about “constantly changing”.

Honestly your views on the people, primarily women, who work in childcare say quite a lot about you. If you want to be hostile to my choice to return to work— or insecure about your choice to stay home— that’s cool. But bashing women who work in childcare in this high cost of living area is a pretty ugly look.

Your anecdotal evidence based on your own childcare providers doesn't actually prove much. I have worked at a daycare center, provided home daycare and know a number of daycare workers. I'm not bashing women who work in childcare centers, I'm talking about who is actually the typical daycare provider (not all) and they are underpaid, they are under educated and staff changes often which indicates under dedicated. I'm not making this up. You can deny it, or you can say your nanny makes great money and has a advanced degree but that doesn't change the demographics of typical daycare providers in this country.

I'm pretty sick of some working moms who act like any idiot can properly care for infants and toddlers. I disagree. For my own kids I felt it was important to provide their early childcare myself. My husband wanted to do it too but he made more money than me so he reluctantly agreed to work but he definitely wanted to stay home with our kids when they were little. I had no problem establishing a career once they were in school.

I think society is paying a price for so many kids being raised by subpar daycare workers. Not ALL kids, but definitely a significant number. You can take that as hostility toward you if you want but I have zero insecurity about my decision to stay home with my kids before they started school. They are adults and they are all the proof I need that I did the right thing.

The trouble with trying to backtrack on Internet forums is that the quote function is right there. So, let’s review how you chose to “not bash” women in childcare centers, shall we?

“many parents feel that their children are better off spending that time with underpaid, undereducated, under dedicated and often constantly changing daycare workers.”

Everyone agrees with you that childcare workers in the United States are underpaid. Where I found your comments to be absolutely disgusting was in calling them “underdedicated”. Particularly in the pandemic, childcare workers who were caring for the children of doctors and nurses were risking their lives and staying on the job when, in many cases, unemployment benefits would have been giving them more money then their salaries. That is remarkably dedicated and did they get a word of praise from media, as doctors, nurses and grocery store clerks did? I sure didn’t hear it.

Now if we want to take your personal anecdata I absolutely believe you that you worked in daycare centers providing subpar care, and provided home daycare that was subpar. Your sample size of one bad daycare provider is accepted. I will also believe you that you were underpaid, undereducated and underdedicated, as you would be the most relevant expert on that fact.

I also have to quibble with your idea that “many mothers” believe that “any idiot” can take care of an infant. Do fathers all undergo brainwashing on the day that childcare is chosen? Does my MBA-wielding husband somehow lose his ability to do analyses that day? Remarkable.

I feel like you are being severely judgmental toward me, I can only assume it comes from a place of insecurity about your own decisions. I'm sure you see at least a kernel of truth in what I said but feel compelled to argue with it anyway and attack me personally, as others also have, even though none of you have one iota of knowledge about me, my background, my actual experiences or my relationship with my own children (which another PP was quite sure she could characterize accurately) which makes perfect sense to me because I'm quite sure many working parents have many misgivings about who is caring for their children when they are infants and toddlers. I notice nobody has argued at all with the concept that our society is paying a heavy price for all the children who are being cared for in subpar daycare situations during their critical first years. Hard to argue with that. Especially since there is evidence everywhere.

The reason I’m not engaging with your “society is going to pay a heavy price!” malarkey is because, as pointed out elsewhere in this thread, society is literally held together by mothers who work. They’re your grandchild’s heart surgeon, if god forbid they need it. They’re our nurses. They’re our teachers. They’re our lawyers and our diplomats and our scientists. When you show up at your doctors office in pain, do you want someone to care for you or not? Do you want someone to answer 911 when you call, or not?

You are not some kind of a victim just because people are telling you that you’re wrong.

I don't see myself as any kind of victim, however apparently on DCUM the worst insult or comment you can make is that someone makes you or others feel judged. So I thought I'd try it too since others are trying to attack me by saying I am extremely judgmental. Just pointing out, all of you are as well.

Also, I have no problem whatsoever with women in every possible job or career. I just also think our children deserve the best quality care when they are infants and toddlers and i also think many women today refuse to see that. I think women and I guess men too prioritize having a bigger house, a better car, vacations, etc.. as well as prioritizing their careers, over what is best for their kids at that young age. I believe infants and toddlers deserve to be cared for primarily by someone who loves and adores them more than anything else in the world and wants the absolute best for them. I get that many parents these days have decided that nannies and daycare workers can do that just as well as parents. I disagree. So there's my opinion, feel free to skewer me for it as many will do. I can handle it.

OK, then the next time you go to the doctors office, ask the receptionist if she has children. If she says yes, offer to wait until a receptionist that doesn’t comes on duty. You don’t mind a few hours in the waiting room extra, right? When you go to the dentist make sure not to benefit from a mother whose child is being denied the best quality care— because obviously that would be hugely hypocritical, right? Make sure you only schedule appointments with male dental hygienists and practitioners.

It sounds like you’re aged past this but the United States has a serious, serious shortage of OB/GYNs. Make sure you’re not taking up the time of any of them with young children please— I’m sure a few extra months waiting for routine screening is not going to kill you. On the other hand mammography is almost entirely carried out by women so if you want mothers out of that field…we’ll that just might kill you!

Personally I’m profoundly grateful for whatever childcare arrangement the ER doctor had when we rushed my father in on Christmas a few years ago. Because we still have my father. I know several of his ICU nurses had young children because we talked about them. My family is blessed by them, again, because we still have my father. I don’t know where you think a bunch of childless, fully trained ICU nurses is going to magically appear from to provide this “no working mothers of young children!” Fantasy of yours, but while you’re so upset by it, you should take the first step and see how your own life would be different without them.

It is not true that these professions and professional worker's positions would not be filled if parents planned for and found a way to provide their own childcare when their children are very young. It is simply no longer a priority for many young parents and I think that's a mistake. I have a lot of sympathy for those who literally cannot survive without two incomes and I think they are the people who deserve the best in paid childcare, but that typically is not the case. People with means are the ones who get the best paid childcare for their children. As a result many of the workers you describe as well as service workers are left with whatever daycare they can afford. Doctors and lawyers are paying high wages for nannies and elite daycare, but what about the rest? Do you seriously think those childcare situations are the best for those children?

Part of the problem is that young parents don't value their own ability to provide the best start for their kids and are being led to believe that daycare providers can do a better job. Therefore they often don't plan accordingly so that they would at least have the opportunity to stay home for a few years, whether it's one parent or shared by both. I know young parents, especially mothers, who are stunned by how much they want to stay home with their babies but did not consider that possibility when planning their families and future lives and careers.

Man, I hope when my kids are grown that I’m not spending my days creepily haunting the message boards of new mothers like this PP does.

I suspect the point about how shallow her own relationship with her adult children is was spot-on, which is why she spends her days hating new mothers the way she does. She’s resentful of them.

I get that you don't like the idea of people having opinions different from yours, especially older people, and that drives you to lash out at me personally as if you know anything about my relationship with my adult children. Here's a news flash: If you spend your child's first few years with them out of love and devotion to their welfare it's pretty unlikely they are then going to grow up and have a "shallow" relationship with you as adults. So don't you worry about us, we are fine. You can pretend you have some evidence that I hate new mothers but you actually know there is no truth to that either. And by the way, this is not a "message board of new mothers" just so you know.

I’m your age. My kids are just slightly younger than yours. And you have shown plenty of evidence that you hate new mothers. I have to assume it’s because your own poor relationship with your children is terrible and you are lashing out. It’s sad to watch.

In any event, that you have a weak relationship with your children tracks with my lived experience. The most santimonious mothers were consistently the worst mothers, and always had shallow relationships with their kids. You could see it plain as day.

Please work in your weak parenting rather than attacking new mothers. The world would be a better place if you did that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I find sitting around while kids nap painfully boring.

They sleep 10 hours a night and 4 hours a day.

If I work 8 hours I only miss 4 hours of their life. I think it’s weird to want to be with your kids every.single.minute.

I think even SAHM’s agree that is why they are so into independent play. So they aren’t even with their kids every.single.minute.

I don’t clean.

I love to cook though.

I don’t want to be sick of my kids. I treasure all my time with them. I’m the crazy mom that will do the “carpool” but not ask you to drive. I love getting home from work and doing play dates. I love the zoo at 5pm-8pm.

My H feels the same way.

You wouldn't be "bored" for the four hours a day they were sleeping if you stayed home with them. You'd be grateful for the four hours of rest, peace and quiet. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Well, some people like to be intellectually stimulated. And sitting at home while a kid naps isn't great for that. Maybe you have no idea what you're talking about.

Meh, I like to be mentally stimulated as well - but as someone who has been both a full time sahm and someone who currently works full time with high schoolers - the amount of stress of working far exceeds the amount of mental stimulation occurring. I actually get far more mental stimulation helping my kids with their homework than I do with a full day of my job or when I had more Time for reading when my kids napped. I actually read A TON when my kids were young and I wasn't working. I reread and read all the classics and loved every second of it. Less time to do that now.

People walking around complaining that being a mom to young children isn't "mentally stimulating" enough for them are missing the point. Your job is to use YOUR brain to stimulate THEIR brains. Not just to walk around pompously talking about how boring you find nap time.

I agree with you, but apparently many parents feel that their children are better off spending that time with underpaid, undereducated, under dedicated and often constantly changing daycare workers. Not to say that some daycare workers and situations aren't okay but I much preferred to be my children's primary influence when they were birth to about age 4 with some half day preschool thrown in. I didn't find it boring at all, I had plenty to do to stimulate my mind and theirs and to keep life interesting. Then when they were in school full time I pursued my career. It worked out great, my kids are grown now and they are my evidence that I did the right thing for my family. Certainly not for everyone obviously but kind or ridiculous to assume all SAHMs are going to be bored while the baby takes a nap.

It baffles me that you think the kind of woman with a career worth going back to, who is successful in her field, doesn’t vet her childcare providers. The only point I agree with is that they’re underpaid and that’s why I make it my business to give extremely generous gifts. Undereducated? My daughter’s infant teacher didn’t have a college degree, you’re right. She did have grandchildren, humor, kindness and endless patience. Underdedicated? Not if you’re in a place that values their staff and treats them well. Same about “constantly changing”.

Honestly your views on the people, primarily women, who work in childcare say quite a lot about you. If you want to be hostile to my choice to return to work— or insecure about your choice to stay home— that’s cool. But bashing women who work in childcare in this high cost of living area is a pretty ugly look.

Your anecdotal evidence based on your own childcare providers doesn't actually prove much. I have worked at a daycare center, provided home daycare and know a number of daycare workers. I'm not bashing women who work in childcare centers, I'm talking about who is actually the typical daycare provider (not all) and they are underpaid, they are under educated and staff changes often which indicates under dedicated. I'm not making this up. You can deny it, or you can say your nanny makes great money and has a advanced degree but that doesn't change the demographics of typical daycare providers in this country.

I'm pretty sick of some working moms who act like any idiot can properly care for infants and toddlers. I disagree. For my own kids I felt it was important to provide their early childcare myself. My husband wanted to do it too but he made more money than me so he reluctantly agreed to work but he definitely wanted to stay home with our kids when they were little. I had no problem establishing a career once they were in school.

I think society is paying a price for so many kids being raised by subpar daycare workers. Not ALL kids, but definitely a significant number. You can take that as hostility toward you if you want but I have zero insecurity about my decision to stay home with my kids before they started school. They are adults and they are all the proof I need that I did the right thing.

The trouble with trying to backtrack on Internet forums is that the quote function is right there. So, let’s review how you chose to “not bash” women in childcare centers, shall we?

“many parents feel that their children are better off spending that time with underpaid, undereducated, under dedicated and often constantly changing daycare workers.”

Everyone agrees with you that childcare workers in the United States are underpaid. Where I found your comments to be absolutely disgusting was in calling them “underdedicated”. Particularly in the pandemic, childcare workers who were caring for the children of doctors and nurses were risking their lives and staying on the job when, in many cases, unemployment benefits would have been giving them more money then their salaries. That is remarkably dedicated and did they get a word of praise from media, as doctors, nurses and grocery store clerks did? I sure didn’t hear it.

Now if we want to take your personal anecdata I absolutely believe you that you worked in daycare centers providing subpar care, and provided home daycare that was subpar. Your sample size of one bad daycare provider is accepted. I will also believe you that you were underpaid, undereducated and underdedicated, as you would be the most relevant expert on that fact.

I also have to quibble with your idea that “many mothers” believe that “any idiot” can take care of an infant. Do fathers all undergo brainwashing on the day that childcare is chosen? Does my MBA-wielding husband somehow lose his ability to do analyses that day? Remarkable.

I feel like you are being severely judgmental toward me, I can only assume it comes from a place of insecurity about your own decisions. I'm sure you see at least a kernel of truth in what I said but feel compelled to argue with it anyway and attack me personally, as others also have, even though none of you have one iota of knowledge about me, my background, my actual experiences or my relationship with my own children (which another PP was quite sure she could characterize accurately) which makes perfect sense to me because I'm quite sure many working parents have many misgivings about who is caring for their children when they are infants and toddlers. I notice nobody has argued at all with the concept that our society is paying a heavy price for all the children who are being cared for in subpar daycare situations during their critical first years. Hard to argue with that. Especially since there is evidence everywhere.

The reason I’m not engaging with your “society is going to pay a heavy price!” malarkey is because, as pointed out elsewhere in this thread, society is literally held together by mothers who work. They’re your grandchild’s heart surgeon, if god forbid they need it. They’re our nurses. They’re our teachers. They’re our lawyers and our diplomats and our scientists. When you show up at your doctors office in pain, do you want someone to care for you or not? Do you want someone to answer 911 when you call, or not?

You are not some kind of a victim just because people are telling you that you’re wrong.

I don't see myself as any kind of victim, however apparently on DCUM the worst insult or comment you can make is that someone makes you or others feel judged. So I thought I'd try it too since others are trying to attack me by saying I am extremely judgmental. Just pointing out, all of you are as well.

Also, I have no problem whatsoever with women in every possible job or career. I just also think our children deserve the best quality care when they are infants and toddlers and i also think many women today refuse to see that. I think women and I guess men too prioritize having a bigger house, a better car, vacations, etc.. as well as prioritizing their careers, over what is best for their kids at that young age. I believe infants and toddlers deserve to be cared for primarily by someone who loves and adores them more than anything else in the world and wants the absolute best for them. I get that many parents these days have decided that nannies and daycare workers can do that just as well as parents. I disagree. So there's my opinion, feel free to skewer me for it as many will do. I can handle it.

OK, then the next time you go to the doctors office, ask the receptionist if she has children. If she says yes, offer to wait until a receptionist that doesn’t comes on duty. You don’t mind a few hours in the waiting room extra, right? When you go to the dentist make sure not to benefit from a mother whose child is being denied the best quality care— because obviously that would be hugely hypocritical, right? Make sure you only schedule appointments with male dental hygienists and practitioners.

It sounds like you’re aged past this but the United States has a serious, serious shortage of OB/GYNs. Make sure you’re not taking up the time of any of them with young children please— I’m sure a few extra months waiting for routine screening is not going to kill you. On the other hand mammography is almost entirely carried out by women so if you want mothers out of that field…we’ll that just might kill you!

Personally I’m profoundly grateful for whatever childcare arrangement the ER doctor had when we rushed my father in on Christmas a few years ago. Because we still have my father. I know several of his ICU nurses had young children because we talked about them. My family is blessed by them, again, because we still have my father. I don’t know where you think a bunch of childless, fully trained ICU nurses is going to magically appear from to provide this “no working mothers of young children!” Fantasy of yours, but while you’re so upset by it, you should take the first step and see how your own life would be different without them.

It is not true that these professions and professional worker's positions would not be filled if parents planned for and found a way to provide their own childcare when their children are very young. It is simply no longer a priority for many young parents and I think that's a mistake. I have a lot of sympathy for those who literally cannot survive without two incomes and I think they are the people who deserve the best in paid childcare, but that typically is not the case. People with means are the ones who get the best paid childcare for their children. As a result many of the workers you describe as well as service workers are left with whatever daycare they can afford. Doctors and lawyers are paying high wages for nannies and elite daycare, but what about the rest? Do you seriously think those childcare situations are the best for those children?

Part of the problem is that young parents don't value their own ability to provide the best start for their kids and are being led to believe that daycare providers can do a better job. Therefore they often don't plan accordingly so that they would at least have the opportunity to stay home for a few years, whether it's one parent or shared by both. I know young parents, especially mothers, who are stunned by how much they want to stay home with their babies but did not consider that possibility when planning their families and future lives and careers.

Man, I hope when my kids are grown that I’m not spending my days creepily haunting the message boards of new mothers like this PP does.

I suspect the point about how shallow her own relationship with her adult children is was spot-on, which is why she spends her days hating new mothers the way she does. She’s resentful of them.

I get that you don't like the idea of people having opinions different from yours, especially older people, and that drives you to lash out at me personally as if you know anything about my relationship with my adult children. Here's a news flash: If you spend your child's first few years with them out of love and devotion to their welfare it's pretty unlikely they are then going to grow up and have a "shallow" relationship with you as adults. So don't you worry about us, we are fine. You can pretend you have some evidence that I hate new mothers but you actually know there is no truth to that either. And by the way, this is not a "message board of new mothers" just so you know.

I had a stay at home mom and our relationship really isn't dependent on whether she worked when I was four. Indeed our relationship really struggled in my 20s because she didn't understand work issues. I ended up talking to my Dad a lot more about those issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My mom was a c suite executive with me and then became a SAHM after my (much much younger) sibling was born. I work because of the differences I observed.

I wouldn't put too much stock in what you observed when you were 1.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I find sitting around while kids nap painfully boring.

They sleep 10 hours a night and 4 hours a day.

If I work 8 hours I only miss 4 hours of their life. I think it’s weird to want to be with your kids every.single.minute.

I think even SAHM’s agree that is why they are so into independent play. So they aren’t even with their kids every.single.minute.

I don’t clean.

I love to cook though.

I don’t want to be sick of my kids. I treasure all my time with them. I’m the crazy mom that will do the “carpool” but not ask you to drive. I love getting home from work and doing play dates. I love the zoo at 5pm-8pm.

My H feels the same way.

You wouldn't be "bored" for the four hours a day they were sleeping if you stayed home with them. You'd be grateful for the four hours of rest, peace and quiet. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Well, some people like to be intellectually stimulated. And sitting at home while a kid naps isn't great for that. Maybe you have no idea what you're talking about.

Meh, I like to be mentally stimulated as well - but as someone who has been both a full time sahm and someone who currently works full time with high schoolers - the amount of stress of working far exceeds the amount of mental stimulation occurring. I actually get far more mental stimulation helping my kids with their homework than I do with a full day of my job or when I had more Time for reading when my kids napped. I actually read A TON when my kids were young and I wasn't working. I reread and read all the classics and loved every second of it. Less time to do that now.

People walking around complaining that being a mom to young children isn't "mentally stimulating" enough for them are missing the point. Your job is to use YOUR brain to stimulate THEIR brains. Not just to walk around pompously talking about how boring you find nap time.

I agree with you, but apparently many parents feel that their children are better off spending that time with underpaid, undereducated, under dedicated and often constantly changing daycare workers. Not to say that some daycare workers and situations aren't okay but I much preferred to be my children's primary influence when they were birth to about age 4 with some half day preschool thrown in. I didn't find it boring at all, I had plenty to do to stimulate my mind and theirs and to keep life interesting. Then when they were in school full time I pursued my career. It worked out great, my kids are grown now and they are my evidence that I did the right thing for my family. Certainly not for everyone obviously but kind or ridiculous to assume all SAHMs are going to be bored while the baby takes a nap.

It baffles me that you think the kind of woman with a career worth going back to, who is successful in her field, doesn’t vet her childcare providers. The only point I agree with is that they’re underpaid and that’s why I make it my business to give extremely generous gifts. Undereducated? My daughter’s infant teacher didn’t have a college degree, you’re right. She did have grandchildren, humor, kindness and endless patience. Underdedicated? Not if you’re in a place that values their staff and treats them well. Same about “constantly changing”.

Honestly your views on the people, primarily women, who work in childcare say quite a lot about you. If you want to be hostile to my choice to return to work— or insecure about your choice to stay home— that’s cool. But bashing women who work in childcare in this high cost of living area is a pretty ugly look.

Your anecdotal evidence based on your own childcare providers doesn't actually prove much. I have worked at a daycare center, provided home daycare and know a number of daycare workers. I'm not bashing women who work in childcare centers, I'm talking about who is actually the typical daycare provider (not all) and they are underpaid, they are under educated and staff changes often which indicates under dedicated. I'm not making this up. You can deny it, or you can say your nanny makes great money and has a advanced degree but that doesn't change the demographics of typical daycare providers in this country.

I'm pretty sick of some working moms who act like any idiot can properly care for infants and toddlers. I disagree. For my own kids I felt it was important to provide their early childcare myself. My husband wanted to do it too but he made more money than me so he reluctantly agreed to work but he definitely wanted to stay home with our kids when they were little. I had no problem establishing a career once they were in school.

I think society is paying a price for so many kids being raised by subpar daycare workers. Not ALL kids, but definitely a significant number. You can take that as hostility toward you if you want but I have zero insecurity about my decision to stay home with my kids before they started school. They are adults and they are all the proof I need that I did the right thing.

The trouble with trying to backtrack on Internet forums is that the quote function is right there. So, let’s review how you chose to “not bash” women in childcare centers, shall we?

“many parents feel that their children are better off spending that time with underpaid, undereducated, under dedicated and often constantly changing daycare workers.”

Everyone agrees with you that childcare workers in the United States are underpaid. Where I found your comments to be absolutely disgusting was in calling them “underdedicated”. Particularly in the pandemic, childcare workers who were caring for the children of doctors and nurses were risking their lives and staying on the job when, in many cases, unemployment benefits would have been giving them more money then their salaries. That is remarkably dedicated and did they get a word of praise from media, as doctors, nurses and grocery store clerks did? I sure didn’t hear it.

Now if we want to take your personal anecdata I absolutely believe you that you worked in daycare centers providing subpar care, and provided home daycare that was subpar. Your sample size of one bad daycare provider is accepted. I will also believe you that you were underpaid, undereducated and underdedicated, as you would be the most relevant expert on that fact.

I also have to quibble with your idea that “many mothers” believe that “any idiot” can take care of an infant. Do fathers all undergo brainwashing on the day that childcare is chosen? Does my MBA-wielding husband somehow lose his ability to do analyses that day? Remarkable.

I feel like you are being severely judgmental toward me, I can only assume it comes from a place of insecurity about your own decisions. I'm sure you see at least a kernel of truth in what I said but feel compelled to argue with it anyway and attack me personally, as others also have, even though none of you have one iota of knowledge about me, my background, my actual experiences or my relationship with my own children (which another PP was quite sure she could characterize accurately) which makes perfect sense to me because I'm quite sure many working parents have many misgivings about who is caring for their children when they are infants and toddlers. I notice nobody has argued at all with the concept that our society is paying a heavy price for all the children who are being cared for in subpar daycare situations during their critical first years. Hard to argue with that. Especially since there is evidence everywhere.

The reason I’m not engaging with your “society is going to pay a heavy price!” malarkey is because, as pointed out elsewhere in this thread, society is literally held together by mothers who work. They’re your grandchild’s heart surgeon, if god forbid they need it. They’re our nurses. They’re our teachers. They’re our lawyers and our diplomats and our scientists. When you show up at your doctors office in pain, do you want someone to care for you or not? Do you want someone to answer 911 when you call, or not?

You are not some kind of a victim just because people are telling you that you’re wrong.

I don't see myself as any kind of victim, however apparently on DCUM the worst insult or comment you can make is that someone makes you or others feel judged. So I thought I'd try it too since others are trying to attack me by saying I am extremely judgmental. Just pointing out, all of you are as well.

Also, I have no problem whatsoever with women in every possible job or career. I just also think our children deserve the best quality care when they are infants and toddlers and i also think many women today refuse to see that. I think women and I guess men too prioritize having a bigger house, a better car, vacations, etc.. as well as prioritizing their careers, over what is best for their kids at that young age. I believe infants and toddlers deserve to be cared for primarily by someone who loves and adores them more than anything else in the world and wants the absolute best for them. I get that many parents these days have decided that nannies and daycare workers can do that just as well as parents. I disagree. So there's my opinion, feel free to skewer me for it as many will do. I can handle it.

OK, then the next time you go to the doctors office, ask the receptionist if she has children. If she says yes, offer to wait until a receptionist that doesn’t comes on duty. You don’t mind a few hours in the waiting room extra, right? When you go to the dentist make sure not to benefit from a mother whose child is being denied the best quality care— because obviously that would be hugely hypocritical, right? Make sure you only schedule appointments with male dental hygienists and practitioners.

It sounds like you’re aged past this but the United States has a serious, serious shortage of OB/GYNs. Make sure you’re not taking up the time of any of them with young children please— I’m sure a few extra months waiting for routine screening is not going to kill you. On the other hand mammography is almost entirely carried out by women so if you want mothers out of that field…we’ll that just might kill you!

Personally I’m profoundly grateful for whatever childcare arrangement the ER doctor had when we rushed my father in on Christmas a few years ago. Because we still have my father. I know several of his ICU nurses had young children because we talked about them. My family is blessed by them, again, because we still have my father. I don’t know where you think a bunch of childless, fully trained ICU nurses is going to magically appear from to provide this “no working mothers of young children!” Fantasy of yours, but while you’re so upset by it, you should take the first step and see how your own life would be different without them.

It is not true that these professions and professional worker's positions would not be filled if parents planned for and found a way to provide their own childcare when their children are very young. It is simply no longer a priority for many young parents and I think that's a mistake. I have a lot of sympathy for those who literally cannot survive without two incomes and I think they are the people who deserve the best in paid childcare, but that typically is not the case. People with means are the ones who get the best paid childcare for their children. As a result many of the workers you describe as well as service workers are left with whatever daycare they can afford. Doctors and lawyers are paying high wages for nannies and elite daycare, but what about the rest? Do you seriously think those childcare situations are the best for those children?

Part of the problem is that young parents don't value their own ability to provide the best start for their kids and are being led to believe that daycare providers can do a better job. Therefore they often don't plan accordingly so that they would at least have the opportunity to stay home for a few years, whether it's one parent or shared by both. I know young parents, especially mothers, who are stunned by how much they want to stay home with their babies but did not consider that possibility when planning their families and future lives and careers.

Man, I hope when my kids are grown that I’m not spending my days creepily haunting the message boards of new mothers like this PP does.

I suspect the point about how shallow her own relationship with her adult children is was spot-on, which is why she spends her days hating new mothers the way she does. She’s resentful of them.

Given her particular fixation on mothers, and repeated self-aggrandizing comments that she lived on such a small budget, I think it’s likely that either a daughter or daughter in law is doing well in their career and gone back to work, and the OP resents that daughter/daughter in law’s relative success. I’m pretty sure she haunts the family relationships board as well.

Rare DCUM moments of unity though, so there’s at least that.

[Anonymous]

It's kind of odd that a few of you choose to attack me and my relationship with my kids which I told you is close and just fine but perhaps you can't imagine such a thing? I don't know, it's kind of pathetic though. There are pages and pages of working moms with insulting, sarcastic and nasty comments toward the OP just for asking why they work, maybe your time would be better spent attacking them? Because trust me, you are not hurting my feelings even a tiny bit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's kind of odd that a few of you choose to attack me and my relationship with my kids which I told you is close and just fine but perhaps you can't imagine such a thing? I don't know, it's kind of pathetic though. There are pages and pages of working moms with insulting, sarcastic and nasty comments toward the OP just for asking why they work, maybe your time would be better spent attacking them? Because trust me, you are not hurting my feelings even a tiny bit.

Lady, I have responded to you a few times and have not talked about your kids. I am addressing only your posts here. We are trying to get it through your thick skull that your posts are insulting and rude to working mothers. You spout nonsense about daycare and guilt moms who don't, in your opinion, "sacrifice" enough to stay home with their kids. You have this fantasy you've concocted to justify your hateful posts that moms are out there leaving their kids at daycare, because they want a fancy vacation more than spending time with their kids. Working mothers are not doing this.

The reason working mothers are responding as they are to this troll thread is that the entire premise is insulting and sexist. Why are dads not subject to the same scrutiny? Why is it assumed that only moms have to make decisions about whether to work or not?

MANY, MANY women work for the simple reason that they have to to support their families. Period. And some moms work because they love their jobs, they feel they make a difference in the world, or whatever reason. And why is it bad for a mom to enjoy working? Who are you to tell her what is best for her, for her kids, for her family? Each person has a unique story and unique motivations. Your generalizations are ridiculous.

You need to stop and reflect. When so many PPs tell you you are off base, it means you are NOT some lone voice of reason but instead that you are wrong and inappropriate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's kind of odd that a few of you choose to attack me and my relationship with my kids which I told you is close and just fine but perhaps you can't imagine such a thing? I don't know, it's kind of pathetic though. There are pages and pages of working moms with insulting, sarcastic and nasty comments toward the OP just for asking why they work, maybe your time would be better spent attacking them? Because trust me, you are not hurting my feelings even a tiny bit.

15:45 again. And I don't believe you. You keep coming back so this is definitely getting to you. I wish you would stop being defensive and digging in further and reflect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's kind of odd that a few of you choose to attack me and my relationship with my kids which I told you is close and just fine but perhaps you can't imagine such a thing? I don't know, it's kind of pathetic though. There are pages and pages of working moms with insulting, sarcastic and nasty comments toward the OP just for asking why they work, maybe your time would be better spent attacking them? Because trust me, you are not hurting my feelings even a tiny bit.

15:45 again. And I don't believe you. You keep coming back so this is definitely getting to you. I wish you would stop being defensive and digging in further and reflect.

I keep coming back, you keep coming back. Hmmm.

I probably won't come back when the few PPs who won't give up finally stop attacking me. Huge double standard, it's okay for you to attack me but not okay for me to disagree with the choices of some working moms. And BTW I didn't decide this question doesn't apply to dads, I think it does. It was the OP who asked the original question, not me.

Just curious also why you think it's okay for so many PPs to be insulting and snarky to the OP but it's me you choose to jump on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's kind of odd that a few of you choose to attack me and my relationship with my kids which I told you is close and just fine but perhaps you can't imagine such a thing? I don't know, it's kind of pathetic though. There are pages and pages of working moms with insulting, sarcastic and nasty comments toward the OP just for asking why they work, maybe your time would be better spent attacking them? Because trust me, you are not hurting my feelings even a tiny bit.

15:45 again. And I don't believe you. You keep coming back so this is definitely getting to you. I wish you would stop being defensive and digging in further and reflect.

I keep coming back, you keep coming back. Hmmm.

I probably won't come back when the few PPs who won't give up finally stop attacking me. Huge double standard, it's okay for you to attack me but not okay for me to disagree with the choices of some working moms. And BTW I didn't decide this question doesn't apply to dads, I think it does. It was the OP who asked the original question, not me.

Just curious also why you think it's okay for so many PPs to be insulting and snarky to the OP but it's me you choose to jump on.

+1

[Anonymous]

My mom stayed at home until I was 8. I love her, but she is extremely emotionally manipulative and has been since before I was born. She did not do anything remotely intellectually stimulating. I spent a lot of time alone. I had a box of crayons, dolls, and a backyard. Don’t try to tell me SAHMs tend to their children better - many do, but many don’t.
I work. My DH has been a SAHD on and off. He’s in a high stress high travel field, and gets burned out every couple years and then takes a couple years off. Sometimes our kids were in daycare/preschool. Sometimes with him when he decided to take time off working. He’s a great dad, but they were exposed to far more things at daycare and preschool than home.
We all know OP was judging when asking. It’s a tired argument on DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's kind of odd that a few of you choose to attack me and my relationship with my kids which I told you is close and just fine but perhaps you can't imagine such a thing? I don't know, it's kind of pathetic though. There are pages and pages of working moms with insulting, sarcastic and nasty comments toward the OP just for asking why they work, maybe your time would be better spent attacking them? Because trust me, you are not hurting my feelings even a tiny bit.

15:45 again. And I don't believe you. You keep coming back so this is definitely getting to you. I wish you would stop being defensive and digging in further and reflect.

I keep coming back, you keep coming back. Hmmm.

I probably won't come back when the few PPs who won't give up finally stop attacking me. Huge double standard, it's okay for you to attack me but not okay for me to disagree with the choices of some working moms. And BTW I didn't decide this question doesn't apply to dads, I think it does. It was the OP who asked the original question, not me.

Just curious also why you think it's okay for so many PPs to be insulting and snarky to the OP but it's me you choose to jump on.

You’re not being jumped on. You’re being wrong. Loudly, repeatedly, and verifiably wrong.

When someone tells you 2+2 doesn’t equal five, they’re not hurting you. You can either learn that it equals four, or you can keep loudly insisting that it equals five. But when another person— and another, and another— tells you it equals four, you’re still not some kind of victim of the math Illuminati— you’re just another person who is wrong.

[Anonymous]

I had a wonderful SAHM but she didn't raise 3 girls to clean toilets and change diapers. Watching her blossom and make her own money was inspiring. I'd like my kids to feel the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's kind of odd that a few of you choose to attack me and my relationship with my kids which I told you is close and just fine but perhaps you can't imagine such a thing? I don't know, it's kind of pathetic though. There are pages and pages of working moms with insulting, sarcastic and nasty comments toward the OP just for asking why they work, maybe your time would be better spent attacking them? Because trust me, you are not hurting my feelings even a tiny bit.

15:45 again. And I don't believe you. You keep coming back so this is definitely getting to you. I wish you would stop being defensive and digging in further and reflect.

I keep coming back, you keep coming back. Hmmm.

I probably won't come back when the few PPs who won't give up finally stop attacking me. Huge double standard, it's okay for you to attack me but not okay for me to disagree with the choices of some working moms. And BTW I didn't decide this question doesn't apply to dads, I think it does. It was the OP who asked the original question, not me.

Just curious also why you think it's okay for so many PPs to be insulting and snarky to the OP but it's me you choose to jump on.

You’re not being jumped on. You’re being wrong. Loudly, repeatedly, and verifiably wrong.

When someone tells you 2+2 doesn’t equal five, they’re not hurting you. You can either learn that it equals four, or you can keep loudly insisting that it equals five. But when another person— and another, and another— tells you it equals four, you’re still not some kind of victim of the math Illuminati— you’re just another person who is wrong.

Well there's no arguing with that! Your closed mindedness and singular focus that tells you that you are right and I am wrong is something you might want to examine. Just because a few working moms on DCUM disagree with me means very little. You may have noticed that most people are staying out of this discussion, it's mostly me and maybe two or three others. That's because it's not as cut and dried in everyone's mind as you seem to think. Many parents, new and otherwise, question whether the best thing for their children is daycare or parent care. There are threads started on DCUM about that all the time.

I notice you ignore all the many comments on this thread that are rude, insulting and nasty when addressing the OP's question Why do you work? Is it really that hard to defend the decision without attacking?