Does Baptism mean that you those who are not Baptized won't go to heaven?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christians can pray for whomever and whatever they wish to pray for. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. Prayer is their choice.

It is the attitude of one who prays. It doesn’t influence God necessarily. They person who prays focuses their thoughts and their emotional and spiritual life through prayer and that’s how they choose to interact with aspects of the world around them.

Prayer isn’t arrogant, it’s how some people feel comfortable interacting with their fellow man and the world around them.

Telling people specifically in a religion forum that their prayers suck is arrogant. Interaction with religious people, when you have rejected God, and lecturing them on prayer reeks of arrogance.

If you don’t like prayer, and don’t like interacting with Christians, or Jews, or Muslims, all who pray, don’t interact with them.

Prayer can be arrogant and it certainly was in the example here. Anyone anywhere saying they don't want to be prayed for is not arrogant any more than declining any assistance is arrogant.

question: are you saying that it's acceptable for Christians to pray for atheists who have made it clear that they don't want the prayers, but not acceptable for atheists (or anyone) to acknowledge that they don't want the prayers?

And Thanks for demonstrating just how arrogant and insensitive some people can be.

Also, please keep in mind that this is the Religion forum, not the "Religious believers only" forum.

^ I think you're being a bit too had on the Christian lady in this instance. She's not the belligerent believer, and she means well. Just my opinion.

No she doesn’t. She said she would pray for me seemingly because we disagreed in this discussion. Why that required prayer, I have no idea. It’s like she thought I needed divine intervention to help my soul or something.

I wrote that I would pray for you. I didn’t see us as arguing. You had some questions about the Catholic Church, we were having a discussion, and I was leaving. I said that I had to make dinner now, but that I would keep you in my prayers later.

It was not a hostile statement. Exactly the opposite. If I really look at why I wrote it, I think it was intended to soften the “I have more important stuff to do” statement that preceded it.

DP here. You told a guy who you knew doesn’t believe what you believed that you would pray for him, when you knew he didn’t want you to, and you reasonably would assume he wouldn’t like, and you say that isn’t hostile? I think you should do some self reflection on that because it was entirely hostile and appeared intentionally so.

Well I'm a DP, and an atheist, and I didn't take it that way at all. When someone says they'll pray for me, I just say "thanks but don't waste your time." I don't get angry about it or ascribe malicious motives to them. OTOH, this thread is supposed to be about baptism, so maybe we could go back to that?

What kind of response do you get to that?
If someone told me not to waste my time on them, I would think they were depressed and feeling worthless.

Maybe because you are so religious that you can't imagine someone not wanting prayer?

If someone turned down food you offered, I bet you would at least consider that they were not hungry and not immediately think they were ill.

What an incredibly insightful and thoughtful post. +1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christians can pray for whomever and whatever they wish to pray for. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. Prayer is their choice.

It is the attitude of one who prays. It doesn’t influence God necessarily. They person who prays focuses their thoughts and their emotional and spiritual life through prayer and that’s how they choose to interact with aspects of the world around them.

Prayer isn’t arrogant, it’s how some people feel comfortable interacting with their fellow man and the world around them.

Telling people specifically in a religion forum that their prayers suck is arrogant. Interaction with religious people, when you have rejected God, and lecturing them on prayer reeks of arrogance.

If you don’t like prayer, and don’t like interacting with Christians, or Jews, or Muslims, all who pray, don’t interact with them.

Prayer can be arrogant and it certainly was in the example here. Anyone anywhere saying they don't want to be prayed for is not arrogant any more than declining any assistance is arrogant.

question: are you saying that it's acceptable for Christians to pray for atheists who have made it clear that they don't want the prayers, but not acceptable for atheists (or anyone) to acknowledge that they don't want the prayers?

And Thanks for demonstrating just how arrogant and insensitive some people can be.

Also, please keep in mind that this is the Religion forum, not the "Religious believers only" forum.

^ I think you're being a bit too had on the Christian lady in this instance. She's not the belligerent believer, and she means well. Just my opinion.

No she doesn’t. She said she would pray for me seemingly because we disagreed in this discussion. Why that required prayer, I have no idea. It’s like she thought I needed divine intervention to help my soul or something.

I wrote that I would pray for you. I didn’t see us as arguing. You had some questions about the Catholic Church, we were having a discussion, and I was leaving. I said that I had to make dinner now, but that I would keep you in my prayers later.

It was not a hostile statement. Exactly the opposite. If I really look at why I wrote it, I think it was intended to soften the “I have more important stuff to do” statement that preceded it.

DP here. You told a guy who you knew doesn’t believe what you believed that you would pray for him, when you knew he didn’t want you to, and you reasonably would assume he wouldn’t like, and you say that isn’t hostile? I think you should do some self reflection on that because it was entirely hostile and appeared intentionally so.

Well I'm a DP, and an atheist, and I didn't take it that way at all. When someone says they'll pray for me, I just say "thanks but don't waste your time." I don't get angry about it or ascribe malicious motives to them. OTOH, this thread is supposed to be about baptism, so maybe we could go back to that?

What kind of response do you get to that?
If someone told me not to waste my time on them, I would think they were depressed and feeling worthless.

Someone saying they'll pray for me really doesn't bother me that much -- I could say "your efforts are futile since I don't think prayer works," but as with anything, we cut people some slack if we think they mean well. The person here who took offense really just wants to argue. One of the very few times I've disagreed with a fellow atheist poster.

This is strictly your opinion, of course. Personally, I think it's important for believers to know that their prayers aren't universally wanted or valued by people with different beliefs.

So what? You might be against gay marriage and not think that my marriage or relationship with my spouse is valuable, but that doesn’t mean that I can’t tell my husband what we have been talking about on DCUM or that I can’t tell you I told him.
And no, you don’t need to take every opportunity possible to make sure that someone with a different lifestyle than yours knows that the way they live isn’t universally valued or accepted. You can just accept that they have a relationship that you don’t agree with, whether that’s with a spouse or a divine creator, and move on with your life.

[Anonymous]

Answer: who knows?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christians can pray for whomever and whatever they wish to pray for. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. Prayer is their choice.

It is the attitude of one who prays. It doesn’t influence God necessarily. They person who prays focuses their thoughts and their emotional and spiritual life through prayer and that’s how they choose to interact with aspects of the world around them.

Prayer isn’t arrogant, it’s how some people feel comfortable interacting with their fellow man and the world around them.

Telling people specifically in a religion forum that their prayers suck is arrogant. Interaction with religious people, when you have rejected God, and lecturing them on prayer reeks of arrogance.

If you don’t like prayer, and don’t like interacting with Christians, or Jews, or Muslims, all who pray, don’t interact with them.

Prayer can be arrogant and it certainly was in the example here. Anyone anywhere saying they don't want to be prayed for is not arrogant any more than declining any assistance is arrogant.

question: are you saying that it's acceptable for Christians to pray for atheists who have made it clear that they don't want the prayers, but not acceptable for atheists (or anyone) to acknowledge that they don't want the prayers?

And Thanks for demonstrating just how arrogant and insensitive some people can be.

Also, please keep in mind that this is the Religion forum, not the "Religious believers only" forum.

^ I think you're being a bit too had on the Christian lady in this instance. She's not the belligerent believer, and she means well. Just my opinion.

No she doesn’t. She said she would pray for me seemingly because we disagreed in this discussion. Why that required prayer, I have no idea. It’s like she thought I needed divine intervention to help my soul or something.

I wrote that I would pray for you. I didn’t see us as arguing. You had some questions about the Catholic Church, we were having a discussion, and I was leaving. I said that I had to make dinner now, but that I would keep you in my prayers later.

It was not a hostile statement. Exactly the opposite. If I really look at why I wrote it, I think it was intended to soften the “I have more important stuff to do” statement that preceded it.

DP here. You told a guy who you knew doesn’t believe what you believed that you would pray for him, when you knew he didn’t want you to, and you reasonably would assume he wouldn’t like, and you say that isn’t hostile? I think you should do some self reflection on that because it was entirely hostile and appeared intentionally so.

Well I'm a DP, and an atheist, and I didn't take it that way at all. When someone says they'll pray for me, I just say "thanks but don't waste your time." I don't get angry about it or ascribe malicious motives to them. OTOH, this thread is supposed to be about baptism, so maybe we could go back to that?

What kind of response do you get to that?
If someone told me not to waste my time on them, I would think they were depressed and feeling worthless.

Someone saying they'll pray for me really doesn't bother me that much -- I could say "your efforts are futile since I don't think prayer works," but as with anything, we cut people some slack if we think they mean well. The person here who took offense really just wants to argue. One of the very few times I've disagreed with a fellow atheist poster.

This is strictly your opinion, of course. Personally, I think it's important for believers to know that their prayers aren't universally wanted or valued by people with different beliefs.

So what? You might be against gay marriage and not think that my marriage or relationship with my spouse is valuable, but that doesn’t mean that I can’t tell my husband what we have been talking about on DCUM or that I can’t tell you I told him.
And no, you don’t need to take every opportunity possible to make sure that someone with a different lifestyle than yours knows that the way they live isn’t universally valued or accepted. You can just accept that they have a relationship that you don’t agree with, whether that’s with a spouse or a divine creator, and move on with your life.

So what? Because you stated it as a fact.

Not sure I understand the rest of your comment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christians can pray for whomever and whatever they wish to pray for. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. Prayer is their choice.

It is the attitude of one who prays. It doesn’t influence God necessarily. They person who prays focuses their thoughts and their emotional and spiritual life through prayer and that’s how they choose to interact with aspects of the world around them.

Prayer isn’t arrogant, it’s how some people feel comfortable interacting with their fellow man and the world around them.

Telling people specifically in a religion forum that their prayers suck is arrogant. Interaction with religious people, when you have rejected God, and lecturing them on prayer reeks of arrogance.

If you don’t like prayer, and don’t like interacting with Christians, or Jews, or Muslims, all who pray, don’t interact with them.

Prayer can be arrogant and it certainly was in the example here. Anyone anywhere saying they don't want to be prayed for is not arrogant any more than declining any assistance is arrogant.

question: are you saying that it's acceptable for Christians to pray for atheists who have made it clear that they don't want the prayers, but not acceptable for atheists (or anyone) to acknowledge that they don't want the prayers?

And Thanks for demonstrating just how arrogant and insensitive some people can be.

Also, please keep in mind that this is the Religion forum, not the "Religious believers only" forum.

^ I think you're being a bit too had on the Christian lady in this instance. She's not the belligerent believer, and she means well. Just my opinion.

No she doesn’t. She said she would pray for me seemingly because we disagreed in this discussion. Why that required prayer, I have no idea. It’s like she thought I needed divine intervention to help my soul or something.

I wrote that I would pray for you. I didn’t see us as arguing. You had some questions about the Catholic Church, we were having a discussion, and I was leaving. I said that I had to make dinner now, but that I would keep you in my prayers later.

It was not a hostile statement. Exactly the opposite. If I really look at why I wrote it, I think it was intended to soften the “I have more important stuff to do” statement that preceded it.

DP here. You told a guy who you knew doesn’t believe what you believed that you would pray for him, when you knew he didn’t want you to, and you reasonably would assume he wouldn’t like, and you say that isn’t hostile? I think you should do some self reflection on that because it was entirely hostile and appeared intentionally so.

Well I'm a DP, and an atheist, and I didn't take it that way at all. When someone says they'll pray for me, I just say "thanks but don't waste your time." I don't get angry about it or ascribe malicious motives to them. OTOH, this thread is supposed to be about baptism, so maybe we could go back to that?

What kind of response do you get to that?
If someone told me not to waste my time on them, I would think they were depressed and feeling worthless.

Maybe because you are so religious that you can't imagine someone not wanting prayer?

If someone turned down food you offered, I bet you would at least consider that they were not hungry and not immediately think they were ill.

What an incredibly insightful and thoughtful post. +1.

Thank you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christians can pray for whomever and whatever they wish to pray for. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. Prayer is their choice.

It is the attitude of one who prays. It doesn’t influence God necessarily. They person who prays focuses their thoughts and their emotional and spiritual life through prayer and that’s how they choose to interact with aspects of the world around them.

Prayer isn’t arrogant, it’s how some people feel comfortable interacting with their fellow man and the world around them.

Telling people specifically in a religion forum that their prayers suck is arrogant. Interaction with religious people, when you have rejected God, and lecturing them on prayer reeks of arrogance.

If you don’t like prayer, and don’t like interacting with Christians, or Jews, or Muslims, all who pray, don’t interact with them.

Prayer can be arrogant and it certainly was in the example here. Anyone anywhere saying they don't want to be prayed for is not arrogant any more than declining any assistance is arrogant.

question: are you saying that it's acceptable for Christians to pray for atheists who have made it clear that they don't want the prayers, but not acceptable for atheists (or anyone) to acknowledge that they don't want the prayers?

And Thanks for demonstrating just how arrogant and insensitive some people can be.

Also, please keep in mind that this is the Religion forum, not the "Religious believers only" forum.

^ I think you're being a bit too had on the Christian lady in this instance. She's not the belligerent believer, and she means well. Just my opinion.

No she doesn’t. She said she would pray for me seemingly because we disagreed in this discussion. Why that required prayer, I have no idea. It’s like she thought I needed divine intervention to help my soul or something.

I wrote that I would pray for you. I didn’t see us as arguing. You had some questions about the Catholic Church, we were having a discussion, and I was leaving. I said that I had to make dinner now, but that I would keep you in my prayers later.

It was not a hostile statement. Exactly the opposite. If I really look at why I wrote it, I think it was intended to soften the “I have more important stuff to do” statement that preceded it.

DP here. You told a guy who you knew doesn’t believe what you believed that you would pray for him, when you knew he didn’t want you to, and you reasonably would assume he wouldn’t like, and you say that isn’t hostile? I think you should do some self reflection on that because it was entirely hostile and appeared intentionally so.

Well I'm a DP, and an atheist, and I didn't take it that way at all. When someone says they'll pray for me, I just say "thanks but don't waste your time." I don't get angry about it or ascribe malicious motives to them. OTOH, this thread is supposed to be about baptism, so maybe we could go back to that?

What kind of response do you get to that?
If someone told me not to waste my time on them, I would think they were depressed and feeling worthless.

Maybe because you are so religious that you can't imagine someone not wanting prayer?

If someone turned down food you offered, I bet you would at least consider that they were not hungry and not immediately think they were ill.

I’m really not SO religious. If someone turned down food I offered them by telling me not to waste my time feeding them, I would think they were either depressed or incredibly rude.
That’s not because I’m a chef or obsessed with food. It’s just an odd thing to say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christians can pray for whomever and whatever they wish to pray for. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. Prayer is their choice.

It is the attitude of one who prays. It doesn’t influence God necessarily. They person who prays focuses their thoughts and their emotional and spiritual life through prayer and that’s how they choose to interact with aspects of the world around them.

Prayer isn’t arrogant, it’s how some people feel comfortable interacting with their fellow man and the world around them.

Telling people specifically in a religion forum that their prayers suck is arrogant. Interaction with religious people, when you have rejected God, and lecturing them on prayer reeks of arrogance.

If you don’t like prayer, and don’t like interacting with Christians, or Jews, or Muslims, all who pray, don’t interact with them.

Prayer can be arrogant and it certainly was in the example here. Anyone anywhere saying they don't want to be prayed for is not arrogant any more than declining any assistance is arrogant.

question: are you saying that it's acceptable for Christians to pray for atheists who have made it clear that they don't want the prayers, but not acceptable for atheists (or anyone) to acknowledge that they don't want the prayers?

And Thanks for demonstrating just how arrogant and insensitive some people can be.

Also, please keep in mind that this is the Religion forum, not the "Religious believers only" forum.

^ I think you're being a bit too had on the Christian lady in this instance. She's not the belligerent believer, and she means well. Just my opinion.

No she doesn’t. She said she would pray for me seemingly because we disagreed in this discussion. Why that required prayer, I have no idea. It’s like she thought I needed divine intervention to help my soul or something.

I wrote that I would pray for you. I didn’t see us as arguing. You had some questions about the Catholic Church, we were having a discussion, and I was leaving. I said that I had to make dinner now, but that I would keep you in my prayers later.

It was not a hostile statement. Exactly the opposite. If I really look at why I wrote it, I think it was intended to soften the “I have more important stuff to do” statement that preceded it.

DP here. You told a guy who you knew doesn’t believe what you believed that you would pray for him, when you knew he didn’t want you to, and you reasonably would assume he wouldn’t like, and you say that isn’t hostile? I think you should do some self reflection on that because it was entirely hostile and appeared intentionally so.

Well I'm a DP, and an atheist, and I didn't take it that way at all. When someone says they'll pray for me, I just say "thanks but don't waste your time." I don't get angry about it or ascribe malicious motives to them. OTOH, this thread is supposed to be about baptism, so maybe we could go back to that?

What kind of response do you get to that?
If someone told me not to waste my time on them, I would think they were depressed and feeling worthless.

Someone saying they'll pray for me really doesn't bother me that much -- I could say "your efforts are futile since I don't think prayer works," but as with anything, we cut people some slack if we think they mean well. The person here who took offense really just wants to argue. One of the very few times I've disagreed with a fellow atheist poster.

This is strictly your opinion, of course. Personally, I think it's important for believers to know that their prayers aren't universally wanted or valued by people with different beliefs.

So what? You might be against gay marriage and not think that my marriage or relationship with my spouse is valuable, but that doesn’t mean that I can’t tell my husband what we have been talking about on DCUM or that I can’t tell you I told him.
And no, you don’t need to take every opportunity possible to make sure that someone with a different lifestyle than yours knows that the way they live isn’t universally valued or accepted. You can just accept that they have a relationship that you don’t agree with, whether that’s with a spouse or a divine creator, and move on with your life.

So what? Because you stated it as a fact.

Not sure I understand the rest of your comment.

You said that you believe that it’s important that I know that my relationship with God “isn’t universally wanted or valued by people with different beliefs.” So what if you believe that? That’s a ridiculous mission. It’s not important to let people know that anything that’s important to them “isn’t universally wanted or valued by people with different beliefs.” People know that. You don’t need to bring it up. You don’t see people offering to pray for others on the General Parenting forum.

As for the rest of it, prayer is a conversation with God, right? If I kept you in my prayers, then I mentioned you when I was praying. Your telling me that you are offended by that because you don’t value my relationship with God is kind of unnecessary, particularly when you have volunteered to engage in a conversation about baptism and salvation.
I would say that this would be akin to us having a conversation about homosexuality and then you being offended that I mentioned our conversation to my husband. I know that our relationship “isn’t universally valued or wanted by people with different beliefs,” but it’s not like I’m trying to make you gay or make you Christian. I am talking about you, briefly, not trying bring you into my relationship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christians can pray for whomever and whatever they wish to pray for. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. Prayer is their choice.

It is the attitude of one who prays. It doesn’t influence God necessarily. They person who prays focuses their thoughts and their emotional and spiritual life through prayer and that’s how they choose to interact with aspects of the world around them.

Prayer isn’t arrogant, it’s how some people feel comfortable interacting with their fellow man and the world around them.

Telling people specifically in a religion forum that their prayers suck is arrogant. Interaction with religious people, when you have rejected God, and lecturing them on prayer reeks of arrogance.

If you don’t like prayer, and don’t like interacting with Christians, or Jews, or Muslims, all who pray, don’t interact with them.

Prayer can be arrogant and it certainly was in the example here. Anyone anywhere saying they don't want to be prayed for is not arrogant any more than declining any assistance is arrogant.

question: are you saying that it's acceptable for Christians to pray for atheists who have made it clear that they don't want the prayers, but not acceptable for atheists (or anyone) to acknowledge that they don't want the prayers?

And Thanks for demonstrating just how arrogant and insensitive some people can be.

Also, please keep in mind that this is the Religion forum, not the "Religious believers only" forum.

^ I think you're being a bit too had on the Christian lady in this instance. She's not the belligerent believer, and she means well. Just my opinion.

No she doesn’t. She said she would pray for me seemingly because we disagreed in this discussion. Why that required prayer, I have no idea. It’s like she thought I needed divine intervention to help my soul or something.

I wrote that I would pray for you. I didn’t see us as arguing. You had some questions about the Catholic Church, we were having a discussion, and I was leaving. I said that I had to make dinner now, but that I would keep you in my prayers later.

It was not a hostile statement. Exactly the opposite. If I really look at why I wrote it, I think it was intended to soften the “I have more important stuff to do” statement that preceded it.

DP here. You told a guy who you knew doesn’t believe what you believed that you would pray for him, when you knew he didn’t want you to, and you reasonably would assume he wouldn’t like, and you say that isn’t hostile? I think you should do some self reflection on that because it was entirely hostile and appeared intentionally so.

Well I'm a DP, and an atheist, and I didn't take it that way at all. When someone says they'll pray for me, I just say "thanks but don't waste your time." I don't get angry about it or ascribe malicious motives to them. OTOH, this thread is supposed to be about baptism, so maybe we could go back to that?

What kind of response do you get to that?
If someone told me not to waste my time on them, I would think they were depressed and feeling worthless.

Someone saying they'll pray for me really doesn't bother me that much -- I could say "your efforts are futile since I don't think prayer works," but as with anything, we cut people some slack if we think they mean well. The person here who took offense really just wants to argue. One of the very few times I've disagreed with a fellow atheist poster.

This is strictly your opinion, of course. Personally, I think it's important for believers to know that their prayers aren't universally wanted or valued by people with different beliefs.

So what? You might be against gay marriage and not think that my marriage or relationship with my spouse is valuable, but that doesn’t mean that I can’t tell my husband what we have been talking about on DCUM or that I can’t tell you I told him.
And no, you don’t need to take every opportunity possible to make sure that someone with a different lifestyle than yours knows that the way they live isn’t universally valued or accepted. You can just accept that they have a relationship that you don’t agree with, whether that’s with a spouse or a divine creator, and move on with your life.

So what? Because you stated it as a fact.

Not sure I understand the rest of your comment.

You said that you believe that it’s important that I know that my relationship with God “isn’t universally wanted or valued by people with different beliefs.” So what if you believe that? That’s a ridiculous mission. It’s not important to let people know that anything that’s important to them “isn’t universally wanted or valued by people with different beliefs.” People know that. You don’t need to bring it up. You don’t see people offering to pray for others on the General Parenting forum.

As for the rest of it, prayer is a conversation with God, right? If I kept you in my prayers, then I mentioned you when I was praying. Your telling me that you are offended by that because you don’t value my relationship with God is kind of unnecessary, particularly when you have volunteered to engage in a conversation about baptism and salvation.
I would say that this would be akin to us having a conversation about homosexuality and then you being offended that I mentioned our conversation to my husband. I know that our relationship “isn’t universally valued or wanted by people with different beliefs,” but it’s not like I’m trying to make you gay or make you Christian. I am talking about you, briefly, not trying bring you into my relationship.

I don't think anyone said they were offended. They said they didn't want to be prayed for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christians can pray for whomever and whatever they wish to pray for. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. Prayer is their choice.

It is the attitude of one who prays. It doesn’t influence God necessarily. They person who prays focuses their thoughts and their emotional and spiritual life through prayer and that’s how they choose to interact with aspects of the world around them.

Prayer isn’t arrogant, it’s how some people feel comfortable interacting with their fellow man and the world around them.

Telling people specifically in a religion forum that their prayers suck is arrogant. Interaction with religious people, when you have rejected God, and lecturing them on prayer reeks of arrogance.

If you don’t like prayer, and don’t like interacting with Christians, or Jews, or Muslims, all who pray, don’t interact with them.

Prayer can be arrogant and it certainly was in the example here. Anyone anywhere saying they don't want to be prayed for is not arrogant any more than declining any assistance is arrogant.

question: are you saying that it's acceptable for Christians to pray for atheists who have made it clear that they don't want the prayers, but not acceptable for atheists (or anyone) to acknowledge that they don't want the prayers?

And Thanks for demonstrating just how arrogant and insensitive some people can be.

Also, please keep in mind that this is the Religion forum, not the "Religious believers only" forum.

^ I think you're being a bit too had on the Christian lady in this instance. She's not the belligerent believer, and she means well. Just my opinion.

No she doesn’t. She said she would pray for me seemingly because we disagreed in this discussion. Why that required prayer, I have no idea. It’s like she thought I needed divine intervention to help my soul or something.

I wrote that I would pray for you. I didn’t see us as arguing. You had some questions about the Catholic Church, we were having a discussion, and I was leaving. I said that I had to make dinner now, but that I would keep you in my prayers later.

It was not a hostile statement. Exactly the opposite. If I really look at why I wrote it, I think it was intended to soften the “I have more important stuff to do” statement that preceded it.

DP here. You told a guy who you knew doesn’t believe what you believed that you would pray for him, when you knew he didn’t want you to, and you reasonably would assume he wouldn’t like, and you say that isn’t hostile? I think you should do some self reflection on that because it was entirely hostile and appeared intentionally so.

Well I'm a DP, and an atheist, and I didn't take it that way at all. When someone says they'll pray for me, I just say "thanks but don't waste your time." I don't get angry about it or ascribe malicious motives to them. OTOH, this thread is supposed to be about baptism, so maybe we could go back to that?

What kind of response do you get to that?
If someone told me not to waste my time on them, I would think they were depressed and feeling worthless.

Maybe because you are so religious that you can't imagine someone not wanting prayer?

If someone turned down food you offered, I bet you would at least consider that they were not hungry and not immediately think they were ill.

I’m really not SO religious. If someone turned down food I offered them by telling me not to waste my time feeding them, I would think they were either depressed or incredibly rude.
That’s not because I’m a chef or obsessed with food. It’s just an odd thing to say.

You are so religious that you tell strangers on the internet that you will pray for them - including after they say they don't want to be prayed for.

Also, the atheist did not tell you not to waste your prayers, they asked you not to pray for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Christians can pray for whomever and whatever they wish to pray for. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. Prayer is their choice.

It is the attitude of one who prays. It doesn’t influence God necessarily. They person who prays focuses their thoughts and their emotional and spiritual life through prayer and that’s how they choose to interact with aspects of the world around them.

Prayer isn’t arrogant, it’s how some people feel comfortable interacting with their fellow man and the world around them.

Telling people specifically in a religion forum that their prayers suck is arrogant. Interaction with religious people, when you have rejected God, and lecturing them on prayer reeks of arrogance.

If you don’t like prayer, and don’t like interacting with Christians, or Jews, or Muslims, all who pray, don’t interact with them.

Prayer can be arrogant and it certainly was in the example here. Anyone anywhere saying they don't want to be prayed for is not arrogant any more than declining any assistance is arrogant.

question: are you saying that it's acceptable for Christians to pray for atheists who have made it clear that they don't want the prayers, but not acceptable for atheists (or anyone) to acknowledge that they don't want the prayers?

And Thanks for demonstrating just how arrogant and insensitive some people can be.

Also, please keep in mind that this is the Religion forum, not the "Religious believers only" forum.

^ I think you're being a bit too had on the Christian lady in this instance. She's not the belligerent believer, and she means well. Just my opinion.

No she doesn’t. She said she would pray for me seemingly because we disagreed in this discussion. Why that required prayer, I have no idea. It’s like she thought I needed divine intervention to help my soul or something.

I wrote that I would pray for you. I didn’t see us as arguing. You had some questions about the Catholic Church, we were having a discussion, and I was leaving. I said that I had to make dinner now, but that I would keep you in my prayers later.

It was not a hostile statement. Exactly the opposite. If I really look at why I wrote it, I think it was intended to soften the “I have more important stuff to do” statement that preceded it.

DP here. You told a guy who you knew doesn’t believe what you believed that you would pray for him, when you knew he didn’t want you to, and you reasonably would assume he wouldn’t like, and you say that isn’t hostile? I think you should do some self reflection on that because it was entirely hostile and appeared intentionally so.

Well I'm a DP, and an atheist, and I didn't take it that way at all. When someone says they'll pray for me, I just say "thanks but don't waste your time." I don't get angry about it or ascribe malicious motives to them. OTOH, this thread is supposed to be about baptism, so maybe we could go back to that?

What kind of response do you get to that?
If someone told me not to waste my time on them, I would think they were depressed and feeling worthless.

Maybe because you are so religious that you can't imagine someone not wanting prayer?

If someone turned down food you offered, I bet you would at least consider that they were not hungry and not immediately think they were ill.

I’m really not SO religious. If someone turned down food I offered them by telling me not to waste my time feeding them, I would think they were either depressed or incredibly rude.
That’s not because I’m a chef or obsessed with food. It’s just an odd thing to say.

You just keep proving PP's point, over and over, post after post.

You probably should stop, you're not very good at this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christians can pray for whomever and whatever they wish to pray for. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. Prayer is their choice.

It is the attitude of one who prays. It doesn’t influence God necessarily. They person who prays focuses their thoughts and their emotional and spiritual life through prayer and that’s how they choose to interact with aspects of the world around them.

Prayer isn’t arrogant, it’s how some people feel comfortable interacting with their fellow man and the world around them.

Telling people specifically in a religion forum that their prayers suck is arrogant. Interaction with religious people, when you have rejected God, and lecturing them on prayer reeks of arrogance.

If you don’t like prayer, and don’t like interacting with Christians, or Jews, or Muslims, all who pray, don’t interact with them.

Prayer can be arrogant and it certainly was in the example here. Anyone anywhere saying they don't want to be prayed for is not arrogant any more than declining any assistance is arrogant.

question: are you saying that it's acceptable for Christians to pray for atheists who have made it clear that they don't want the prayers, but not acceptable for atheists (or anyone) to acknowledge that they don't want the prayers?

And Thanks for demonstrating just how arrogant and insensitive some people can be.

Also, please keep in mind that this is the Religion forum, not the "Religious believers only" forum.

^ I think you're being a bit too had on the Christian lady in this instance. She's not the belligerent believer, and she means well. Just my opinion.

No she doesn’t. She said she would pray for me seemingly because we disagreed in this discussion. Why that required prayer, I have no idea. It’s like she thought I needed divine intervention to help my soul or something.

I wrote that I would pray for you. I didn’t see us as arguing. You had some questions about the Catholic Church, we were having a discussion, and I was leaving. I said that I had to make dinner now, but that I would keep you in my prayers later.

It was not a hostile statement. Exactly the opposite. If I really look at why I wrote it, I think it was intended to soften the “I have more important stuff to do” statement that preceded it.

DP here. You told a guy who you knew doesn’t believe what you believed that you would pray for him, when you knew he didn’t want you to, and you reasonably would assume he wouldn’t like, and you say that isn’t hostile? I think you should do some self reflection on that because it was entirely hostile and appeared intentionally so.

Well I'm a DP, and an atheist, and I didn't take it that way at all. When someone says they'll pray for me, I just say "thanks but don't waste your time." I don't get angry about it or ascribe malicious motives to them. OTOH, this thread is supposed to be about baptism, so maybe we could go back to that?

What kind of response do you get to that?
If someone told me not to waste my time on them, I would think they were depressed and feeling worthless.

Maybe because you are so religious that you can't imagine someone not wanting prayer?

If someone turned down food you offered, I bet you would at least consider that they were not hungry and not immediately think they were ill.

I’m really not SO religious. If someone turned down food I offered them by telling me not to waste my time feeding them, I would think they were either depressed or incredibly rude.
That’s not because I’m a chef or obsessed with food. It’s just an odd thing to say.

That’s what I thought.

If I offered someone food and they said no thanks, not hungry, it would be a normal situation. No further thought required.

If I offered someone food and they launched into a rant/diatribe about how arrogant I was because I offered them food and they definitely didn’t need my food, and how awful my food was, etc. I would think the same thing. I would think they were depressed, had mental issues, etc. Normal people don’t have a visceral negative reaction to a kind offer.

The pp who offered a prayer didn’t know an atheist was posting. She thought it was a conflicted person seeking answers about religious topics.

Perhaps if atheists wouldn’t pretend to be questioning or conflicted Christians to argue online, they wouldn’t get accidentally offered prayers.

That’s the issue- many atheists troll here and then get offended when a Christian says something remotely religious. It’s is the forum listing, try not to be so sensitive, trolling atheists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christians can pray for whomever and whatever they wish to pray for. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. Prayer is their choice.

It is the attitude of one who prays. It doesn’t influence God necessarily. They person who prays focuses their thoughts and their emotional and spiritual life through prayer and that’s how they choose to interact with aspects of the world around them.

Prayer isn’t arrogant, it’s how some people feel comfortable interacting with their fellow man and the world around them.

Telling people specifically in a religion forum that their prayers suck is arrogant. Interaction with religious people, when you have rejected God, and lecturing them on prayer reeks of arrogance.

If you don’t like prayer, and don’t like interacting with Christians, or Jews, or Muslims, all who pray, don’t interact with them.

Prayer can be arrogant and it certainly was in the example here. Anyone anywhere saying they don't want to be prayed for is not arrogant any more than declining any assistance is arrogant.

question: are you saying that it's acceptable for Christians to pray for atheists who have made it clear that they don't want the prayers, but not acceptable for atheists (or anyone) to acknowledge that they don't want the prayers?

And Thanks for demonstrating just how arrogant and insensitive some people can be.

Also, please keep in mind that this is the Religion forum, not the "Religious believers only" forum.

^ I think you're being a bit too had on the Christian lady in this instance. She's not the belligerent believer, and she means well. Just my opinion.

No she doesn’t. She said she would pray for me seemingly because we disagreed in this discussion. Why that required prayer, I have no idea. It’s like she thought I needed divine intervention to help my soul or something.

I wrote that I would pray for you. I didn’t see us as arguing. You had some questions about the Catholic Church, we were having a discussion, and I was leaving. I said that I had to make dinner now, but that I would keep you in my prayers later.

It was not a hostile statement. Exactly the opposite. If I really look at why I wrote it, I think it was intended to soften the “I have more important stuff to do” statement that preceded it.

DP here. You told a guy who you knew doesn’t believe what you believed that you would pray for him, when you knew he didn’t want you to, and you reasonably would assume he wouldn’t like, and you say that isn’t hostile? I think you should do some self reflection on that because it was entirely hostile and appeared intentionally so.

Well I'm a DP, and an atheist, and I didn't take it that way at all. When someone says they'll pray for me, I just say "thanks but don't waste your time." I don't get angry about it or ascribe malicious motives to them. OTOH, this thread is supposed to be about baptism, so maybe we could go back to that?

What kind of response do you get to that?
If someone told me not to waste my time on them, I would think they were depressed and feeling worthless.

Someone saying they'll pray for me really doesn't bother me that much -- I could say "your efforts are futile since I don't think prayer works," but as with anything, we cut people some slack if we think they mean well. The person here who took offense really just wants to argue. One of the very few times I've disagreed with a fellow atheist poster.

This is strictly your opinion, of course. Personally, I think it's important for believers to know that their prayers aren't universally wanted or valued by people with different beliefs.

So what? You might be against gay marriage and not think that my marriage or relationship with my spouse is valuable, but that doesn’t mean that I can’t tell my husband what we have been talking about on DCUM or that I can’t tell you I told him.
And no, you don’t need to take every opportunity possible to make sure that someone with a different lifestyle than yours knows that the way they live isn’t universally valued or accepted. You can just accept that they have a relationship that you don’t agree with, whether that’s with a spouse or a divine creator, and move on with your life.

So what? Because you stated it as a fact.

Not sure I understand the rest of your comment.

You said that you believe that it’s important that I know that my relationship with God “isn’t universally wanted or valued by people with different beliefs.” So what if you believe that? That’s a ridiculous mission. It’s not important to let people know that anything that’s important to them “isn’t universally wanted or valued by people with different beliefs.” People know that. You don’t need to bring it up. You don’t see people offering to pray for others on the General Parenting forum.

As for the rest of it, prayer is a conversation with God, right? If I kept you in my prayers, then I mentioned you when I was praying. Your telling me that you are offended by that because you don’t value my relationship with God is kind of unnecessary, particularly when you have volunteered to engage in a conversation about baptism and salvation.
I would say that this would be akin to us having a conversation about homosexuality and then you being offended that I mentioned our conversation to my husband. I know that our relationship “isn’t universally valued or wanted by people with different beliefs,” but it’s not like I’m trying to make you gay or make you Christian. I am talking about you, briefly, not trying bring you into my relationship.

NP. Thanks, pp, for expressing my thoughts about this forum so eloquently. As long as people go about their lives without hurting others, their choices shouldn’t matter to the pp you’re talking to. IMO there are some religious positions (a subset of churches’ positions against gay marriage, for example) that do harm others. But clearly you belong to a tolerant church—as do I. I don’t understand the need for 24/7 attacks on peoples’ religious choices, yet the pp probably wouldn’t attack other lifestyle choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christians can pray for whomever and whatever they wish to pray for. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. Prayer is their choice.

It is the attitude of one who prays. It doesn’t influence God necessarily. They person who prays focuses their thoughts and their emotional and spiritual life through prayer and that’s how they choose to interact with aspects of the world around them.

Prayer isn’t arrogant, it’s how some people feel comfortable interacting with their fellow man and the world around them.

Telling people specifically in a religion forum that their prayers suck is arrogant. Interaction with religious people, when you have rejected God, and lecturing them on prayer reeks of arrogance.

If you don’t like prayer, and don’t like interacting with Christians, or Jews, or Muslims, all who pray, don’t interact with them.

Prayer can be arrogant and it certainly was in the example here. Anyone anywhere saying they don't want to be prayed for is not arrogant any more than declining any assistance is arrogant.

question: are you saying that it's acceptable for Christians to pray for atheists who have made it clear that they don't want the prayers, but not acceptable for atheists (or anyone) to acknowledge that they don't want the prayers?

And Thanks for demonstrating just how arrogant and insensitive some people can be.

Also, please keep in mind that this is the Religion forum, not the "Religious believers only" forum.

^ I think you're being a bit too had on the Christian lady in this instance. She's not the belligerent believer, and she means well. Just my opinion.

No she doesn’t. She said she would pray for me seemingly because we disagreed in this discussion. Why that required prayer, I have no idea. It’s like she thought I needed divine intervention to help my soul or something.

I wrote that I would pray for you. I didn’t see us as arguing. You had some questions about the Catholic Church, we were having a discussion, and I was leaving. I said that I had to make dinner now, but that I would keep you in my prayers later.

It was not a hostile statement. Exactly the opposite. If I really look at why I wrote it, I think it was intended to soften the “I have more important stuff to do” statement that preceded it.

DP here. You told a guy who you knew doesn’t believe what you believed that you would pray for him, when you knew he didn’t want you to, and you reasonably would assume he wouldn’t like, and you say that isn’t hostile? I think you should do some self reflection on that because it was entirely hostile and appeared intentionally so.

Well I'm a DP, and an atheist, and I didn't take it that way at all. When someone says they'll pray for me, I just say "thanks but don't waste your time." I don't get angry about it or ascribe malicious motives to them. OTOH, this thread is supposed to be about baptism, so maybe we could go back to that?

What kind of response do you get to that?
If someone told me not to waste my time on them, I would think they were depressed and feeling worthless.

Maybe because you are so religious that you can't imagine someone not wanting prayer?

If someone turned down food you offered, I bet you would at least consider that they were not hungry and not immediately think they were ill.

I’m really not SO religious. If someone turned down food I offered them by telling me not to waste my time feeding them, I would think they were either depressed or incredibly rude.
That’s not because I’m a chef or obsessed with food. It’s just an odd thing to say.

That’s what I thought.

If I offered someone food and they said no thanks, not hungry, it would be a normal situation. No further thought required.

If I offered someone food and they launched into a rant/diatribe about how arrogant I was because I offered them food and they definitely didn’t need my food, and how awful my food was, etc. I would think the same thing. I would think they were depressed, had mental issues, etc. Normal people don’t have a visceral negative reaction to a kind offer.

The pp who offered a prayer didn’t know an atheist was posting. She thought it was a conflicted person seeking answers about religious topics.

Perhaps if atheists wouldn’t pretend to be questioning or conflicted Christians to argue online, they wouldn’t get accidentally offered prayers.

That’s the issue- many atheists troll here and then get offended when a Christian says something remotely religious. It’s is the forum listing, try not to be so sensitive, trolling atheists.

+2. I get the impression that’s the whole point of the trolling. It’s a gotcha game where the troll baits a Christian into saying something remotely religious, then launches into an attack against the poster and Christianity in general. To me it’s an odd way to spend your days, and clearly these trolls do spend days here. I would also agree this is a sign of depression, or of deep anger than needs an outlet that’s not available in the troll’s life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The pp who offered a prayer didn’t know an atheist was posting. She thought it was a conflicted person seeking answers about religious topics.

False.

Anonymous wrote:That’s the issue- many atheists troll here and then get offended when a Christian says something remotely religious. It’s is the forum listing, try not to be so sensitive, trolling atheists.

How about when an atheists asks them not to, and they say, "I will if I want", can they be unhappy then?

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps if atheists wouldn’t pretend to be questioning or conflicted Christians to argue online, they wouldn’t get accidentally offered prayers.

That’s the issue- many atheists troll here and then get offended when a Christian says something remotely religious. It’s is the forum listing, try not to be so sensitive, trolling atheists.

No Atheist has been offended here "when a Christian says something religious". Your persecution complex is really extreme and unattractive.

Also, everything you posted is untrue!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The pp who offered a prayer didn’t know an atheist was posting. She thought it was a conflicted person seeking answers about religious topics.

False.

Anonymous wrote:That’s the issue- many atheists troll here and then get offended when a Christian says something remotely religious. It’s is the forum listing, try not to be so sensitive, trolling atheists.

How about when an atheists asks them not to, and they say, "I will if I want", can they be unhappy then?

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps if atheists wouldn’t pretend to be questioning or conflicted Christians to argue online, they wouldn’t get accidentally offered prayers.

That’s the issue- many atheists troll here and then get offended when a Christian says something remotely religious. It’s is the forum listing, try not to be so sensitive, trolling atheists.

No Atheist has been offended here "when a Christian says something religious". Your persecution complex is really extreme and unattractive.

Also, everything you posted is untrue!

DP. PP’s point was, there’s no reason for caring about somebody else’s relationship with either religion or their spouse. Neither hurts you. It’s not obvious to me that praying pp knew you were an atheist. But in any case, if they want to pray for you, that would never actually hurt you. You seem high drama, or trolling for drama.