Anonymous wrote:100% the Wootton walkers are hanging their hat on option H being illegal. They cannot get through their head that MCPS would have vetted this plan to make sure it was legal before going forward with it as an option.
You give MCPS too much credit. If they had, there wouldn’t have been looks of surprise on MCPS faces during the January 8th meeting when it was mentioned. They would have had a prepared statement to address this likely possibility. More likely, Dr. Taylor assumed Option H would be acceptable when he pulled Wootton off the CIP in November - and it’s not.
Also, the January 8th meeting shows it’s not just the Wootton walkers who are upset. Gaithersburg families are also upset at losing the new school they were promised. The fact that you ignored these families speaks volumes about your opinion of Wootton families.
PP here and yes I am represent a Wootton family who strongly disagrees with the approach the walkers are taking. They are focusing too much on trying to find a legal loophole. What do they do if it turns out it's all above board and allowable? Same thoughts with them wasting time focusing on option W versus a real option. Focus the effort where it can make a difference. They have wasted so much time and energy.
Gaithersburg is upset yes, but no one "promised" them anything. Such is the nature of a public school system.
Yes they did promise Gaithersburg families a new HS That was the whole point of the land set aside 20 years ago.
You seem resigned to Option H being adopted and Wootton being moved to Crown. Your post also indicates that you don’t live in the current walk zone and would likely benefit from such move.
The land was set aside to build a high school. That's it, not promised to anyone specifically and that's not the nature of public schools anyway. Enrollment numbers change, boundaries change.
I think the walkers should have focused their energy on the holding school options and then fought for some emergency repairs after it was final. No one is advocating for the holding school E-F so I think it's maybe less likely to be the choice and H is more likely. No, I'm not a walker so I don't care as much as they do about the move, but I wouldn't say I "benefit" from a move other than my kids having a safe school. That said I would have preferred Wootton to remain on the parkway with current feeder schools. But because of the wasted efforts in the wrong direction I think that's less likely. If the walkers had pushed the E-F rather than trying to have their cake and eat it too with W, maybe it would have worked out.
Anonymous wrote:100% the Wootton walkers are hanging their hat on option H being illegal. They cannot get through their head that MCPS would have vetted this plan to make sure it was legal before going forward with it as an option.
That is the smoking gun. They could vet the legality so as to force us into it, but they built the building without vetting the legality and they spent more time on vetting the legality than trying to anticipate enrollment.
EG they knew they were doing something that wasn't very good.
Anonymous wrote:Let's picture a world where major league baseball was a not for profit organization. Everything would be done for the good of the game only. in this scenario, the league would have even more incentive to preserve successful teams like the Yankees and their legacy.
It is not in the best interests of MCPS to "Disappear" one of their most successful schools. It lowers the overall quality of the school system.
We at Wootton are not entitled. Let someone else have the new building. Giving it to us would be taking from those who need the new building more. We are fine where we are with minor repairs.
People will accuse Wootton of being entitled no matter what. Take the crown, you’re entitled.” Refuse to move, you’re entitled.” Apparently, simply existing as a successful high school in MoCo is enough to be labeled wrong
haven't see a post that states: "If Wootton parents get Crown, they are entitled."
They exist. And there was a whole video of kids from Gaithersburg presented to MCPS saying don’t take our school. Wootton families done want Crown, Gaithersburg families do. Why are people on this thread forcing something that the most affected people DON’T want? Option H doesn’t make the most sense when you consider it from their perspective.
“But it’s for the good of MCPS” and “MCPS can’t afford to fix Wootton”. Neither of these is true. Erasing a proven, top performing school with one that might, someday (unlikely) reach that same level of achievement isn’t in the best interests of MCPS as a whole. Likewise, MCPS can afford remediation of Wootton (not a full renovation). Do a zero base budgeting exercise within MCPS and suddenly tens of millions of dollars will be found.
Doesn't H send both Gaithersburg and Wootton families to Crown? (Obviously not 100% of Gaithersburg families to Crown, but no option would.). Seems pretty win-win to me.
Only the richest part of Gaithersburg and very few people in Gaithersburg would benefit from it as Wootton would take away majority of the seats. Gaithersburg high will be less diverse too with the richest area leaving.
Oh weird, I thought from all the Wootton folks complaining that it was poor kids from Gaithersburg that would be going to the new Wootton (Crown) under option H. Are Wootton families just that elitist that they can't stand any families that aren't super rich?
No, crown people are super rich. Certainly richer than most of Wootton. Wootton doesn’t have that many 2 million dollars single family houses and 1 million townhouses. But crown does. I’m not sure who’s more elitist. But that doesn’t mean they are ok with moving. You can’t dismiss all the valid points on wanting to keep Wootton on Wootton parkway
You're being disingenuous. Yes, there are some very expensive homes in Crown, just like there are some very expensive homes in Wootton's current boundaries. Overall, the median income of people that moved into Wootton at Crown from Gaithersburg would be lower than current Wootton's median income. I'm sure you know that.
Right but everyone sometimes has to deal with boundary changes that slightly change their median income, that's just life and doesn't really a meaningful impact on most people/schools most of the time. Wootton people have been talking about how option H boundaries would radically change the nature of Wootton, which mostly only happens when you add hundreds of FARMS kids to a school, so that's what I assumed was happening. Is that not right? If it's just a mild increase in FARMS rates/decrease in average income, who cares?
Holy crap. I just went to look it up myself and option H changes Wootton from 14.0% FARMS to 14.8% FARMS. That is what they are freaking out about? What the heck is wrong with those people?
That percentage is accounting for fields road as well? I am asking because if H does go through there is no way it’s going through without that school added.
It does not include Fields Road. And yes, I agree Fields Road would be added. There's enough excess capacity in Crown/Wootton to add them.
Okay, it's kind of crazy to oppose option H because of a boundary change that isn't even in option H. But even if they added Fields Road, that would bump up the Wootton FARMS rate from 14% to like 19% or so. In a county where the average FARMS rate is 43%.
Adding fields road will make it overcrowded. Other than I have no problem of adding them. The remaining space is only enough for either crown or fields road and not even counting the new development
Look again at the enrollment numbers.
Sorry, I counted wrong. You're right. It would be about 200 over.
I'm sure could move some from Wootton over into GHS to make room for Field Rd.
Or, more seriously, the western part of Wootton could go to QO.
You want Wootton families to support adding fields road by rezoning themselves out?
No, I want the BoE to make sensible a decision regardless of Wootton's temper tantruming.
You need to advocate for your school and kids! Unless you are Wootton-then you have to keep your mouth shut.
Make sure you are loud-write letters, make signs, attend meetings! Unless you are Wootton-then you have to keep your mouth shut.
The squeakiest wheel gets the oil! Unless you are Wootton then you are not allowed to talk about problems because other people also have problems.
In closing-Wootton can’t ever ask for anything because it makes them look entitled. So if they do ask they should get punished.
Why do you expect us to fix the mess you created? You are not offering any alternative solutions, just complaining.
oh parents created the mess???? No-parents have been paying their taxes and mcps has been spending money on boundary studies and other nonsense instead of maintaining its schools. How could you possibly blame the school’s condition on the parents?
Again, you created the mess at Wootton, you fix it. Many schools have the same issues. We all pay taxes.
Again, please tell me how parents caused the Wootton building to be in disrepair. And “many” schools are not as bad as Wootton. 1 is-per the actual data. Many isn’t 1.
Correct. MCPS took Wootton off the CIP 3 times. In the meantime, it built a brand new school in a highly congested area using faulty enrollment numbers. Maybe it always thought it could break up Wootton, but didn’t expect the massive pushback it’s getting now. MCPS has painted itself into a corner here, but that’s not the fault of Wootton families, no matter how much a couple of trolls on this thread want it to be.
The Wootton families pushing for a full renovation have calmed down. There’s no material dissension among Wootton families. Stop claiming there is.
And, they are offering you that new school.
So what? It’s not an offer if it’s being forced. An offer means you are free to decline.
You are free to decline. Send your kids to private school on your own dime.
Aw, poor little troll got caught by his own words and said the quiet part out loud. Thanks for agreeing with Wootton families.
Why keep that quiet? The Wootton parents have the money for private school.
Though, I strongly suspect that the loudest voices opposing H here don't even have kids in school anymore.
umm no. We certainly do not have money for private school. Secular private school costs 40-60k a year. Again, you are thinking Wootton parents have a lot more money than they do.
Then, you have a spending issue and you need to make changes to be able to afford it if that’s what you want. How will you pay for college? Where is all your money going?
Omg! Bro, stay in your lane - not only inappropriate but incredibly off base. Do you not pay taxes? Make donations? Try to buy high quality food? You don’t know how many kids ppl have. I can’t believe I’m stopping to actually answer this but you’re out of line. Maybe they can’t do private school because they put all extra money into college funds. Maybe they are caring for a sick family member or paying to support someone else?
Jesus, man. One who makes a certain amount know the realities and one who doesn’t can make accusations like you.
Yup, and much worse and we make it work. Having multiple kids is a choice. These are the same people who expect aid for college.
Ah. Ok. So in 2012 when people were having kids and living responsibly within their means, they should have been more careful in the event that the county known in part for education upturns everything and you may have to pay for private school?
You didn't know school boundaries could change? Really?
Not illegally, no we didn’t. No one is above the law.
Of course it’s legal.
Thanks Judge Judy. Glad to know it’s not up to you.
MCPS doesn’t want a lawsuit because as posted earlier in this thread there are numerous legal grounds for one.
Believe me when I say that nothing MCPS is doing right now isn’t going through the general counsel. MCPS knew boundary study stuff makes people litigious and is ensuring that their i’s and t’s are taken care of even if it
Isn’t in the way you’d like. They are three steps ahead on this one.
If MCPS was 3 steps ahead, it wouldn’t be in this mess of having to fill a school that shouldn’t have been built and fixing its mistake by moving Wootton. Alternatively, you’re saying that MCPS planned to move Wootton all along.
Which is it?
Different/unrelated messes and trying them is conspiracy theory level stuff that isn’t being taken seriously in CO. I don’t have info about what went on when decisions about building at the Crown site were being made but I can assure you that the Office of the Superintendent is not doing anything without input from Legal. They know your plans and have already consulted state officials to ensure you have no merits. I say this with kindness: don’t waste your money (or waste more money from a system that has less money than it should for capital improvement projects because of junk like this type of frivolous lawsuit).
Then how did Churchill families get MCPS to back off A-D in only 2 weeks? You give MCPS too much credit. Also, the political fallout during an election year is a major factor.
If MCPS had a slam dunk case, it would have started with Option H and rammed it through. The fact that there is massive opposition to it means that MCPS couldn’t see even its next move, much less 3 moves ahead.
Also, I believe county BOE decisions are appealed to the state, so you’re admitting there likely is collusion between them?
New numbers came out in that time and from my understanding that is when the contractors went back to the drawing board to generate 4 new options based on those numbers (that’s when the Churchill move didn’t seem quite as necessary.)
My understanding is that the need for a secondary holding school has always been a significant concern to Taylor and when these numbers showed such decline in enrollment, it presented the opportunity to actually make that happen. First it was thought to be Crown, then, and I don’t know how or when, it was shifted to be Wootton. TBH, it took Wootton two weeks to wake up and understand the implications for H, and I think in that time MCPS thought it was over without the fight. But apparently it was just a processing speed issue because here we are.
As for “collusion”—no, and stop conspiracy theory-ing everything. Ensuring you’re following protocol by those with more vast understanding of state law is not colluding, it’s making sure you understand the assignment before proceeding. Same as you’d encourage a student to do.
I wish I had time to go through your post line by line and show where you’re wrong, but I have a job. As for collusion, read the COMAR. MCPS can’t consult with the State BOE because that’s the appeal path for a school closure decision.
Surely you remember that MCPS consulted with the state BOE to ensure it would be permissible to use the Crown building as a holding school, per the agreement for the land---was that also collusion? Get a grip. Just because people are not leaving room for your lawsuits doesn't mean they're doing something wrong. To the contrary, it means they're doing something right.
You didn’t read the COMAR (or my post). Or you’re ignoring both and moving the goalposts.
I certainly did and I am well acquainted with Section 13A.02.09.00 which is the regulation I assume you are talking about. IF anyone truly believes this to be a closure (an enormous IF given we don't know for how long the Wootton building would stand as a holding facility or if there is a plan for it's use thereafter) there is no reason MCPS cannot meet the requirements for a closure after Taylor makes this recommendation. Closing a school, which in actuality, I do not believe this constitutes, is truly not that difficult and is simply a matter of procedure that can be done at any time so long as it meets the 4/30 or 90 day deadline.
Your entire premise assumes it’s not a closure, and even if it were, MCPS haš complied with the COMAR. That’s a matter for legal discovery, which MCPS doesn’t want.
Anonymous wrote:100% the Wootton walkers are hanging their hat on option H being illegal. They cannot get through their head that MCPS would have vetted this plan to make sure it was legal before going forward with it as an option.
That is the smoking gun. They could vet the legality so as to force us into it, but they built the building without vetting the legality and they spent more time on vetting the legality than trying to anticipate enrollment.
EG they knew they were doing something that wasn't very good.
Building Crown was legal, but announcing and pushing hard an option to close/move a top school to fill it without appropriate due diligence and community input is not.
Anonymous wrote:Let's picture a world where major league baseball was a not for profit organization. Everything would be done for the good of the game only. in this scenario, the league would have even more incentive to preserve successful teams like the Yankees and their legacy.
It is not in the best interests of MCPS to "Disappear" one of their most successful schools. It lowers the overall quality of the school system.
We at Wootton are not entitled. Let someone else have the new building. Giving it to us would be taking from those who need the new building more. We are fine where we are with minor repairs.
People will accuse Wootton of being entitled no matter what. Take the crown, you’re entitled.” Refuse to move, you’re entitled.” Apparently, simply existing as a successful high school in MoCo is enough to be labeled wrong
haven't see a post that states: "If Wootton parents get Crown, they are entitled."
They exist. And there was a whole video of kids from Gaithersburg presented to MCPS saying don’t take our school. Wootton families done want Crown, Gaithersburg families do. Why are people on this thread forcing something that the most affected people DON’T want? Option H doesn’t make the most sense when you consider it from their perspective.
“But it’s for the good of MCPS” and “MCPS can’t afford to fix Wootton”. Neither of these is true. Erasing a proven, top performing school with one that might, someday (unlikely) reach that same level of achievement isn’t in the best interests of MCPS as a whole. Likewise, MCPS can afford remediation of Wootton (not a full renovation). Do a zero base budgeting exercise within MCPS and suddenly tens of millions of dollars will be found.
Doesn't H send both Gaithersburg and Wootton families to Crown? (Obviously not 100% of Gaithersburg families to Crown, but no option would.). Seems pretty win-win to me.
Only the richest part of Gaithersburg and very few people in Gaithersburg would benefit from it as Wootton would take away majority of the seats. Gaithersburg high will be less diverse too with the richest area leaving.
Oh weird, I thought from all the Wootton folks complaining that it was poor kids from Gaithersburg that would be going to the new Wootton (Crown) under option H. Are Wootton families just that elitist that they can't stand any families that aren't super rich?
No, crown people are super rich. Certainly richer than most of Wootton. Wootton doesn’t have that many 2 million dollars single family houses and 1 million townhouses. But crown does. I’m not sure who’s more elitist. But that doesn’t mean they are ok with moving. You can’t dismiss all the valid points on wanting to keep Wootton on Wootton parkway
You're being disingenuous. Yes, there are some very expensive homes in Crown, just like there are some very expensive homes in Wootton's current boundaries. Overall, the median income of people that moved into Wootton at Crown from Gaithersburg would be lower than current Wootton's median income. I'm sure you know that.
Right but everyone sometimes has to deal with boundary changes that slightly change their median income, that's just life and doesn't really a meaningful impact on most people/schools most of the time. Wootton people have been talking about how option H boundaries would radically change the nature of Wootton, which mostly only happens when you add hundreds of FARMS kids to a school, so that's what I assumed was happening. Is that not right? If it's just a mild increase in FARMS rates/decrease in average income, who cares?
Holy crap. I just went to look it up myself and option H changes Wootton from 14.0% FARMS to 14.8% FARMS. That is what they are freaking out about? What the heck is wrong with those people?
That percentage is accounting for fields road as well? I am asking because if H does go through there is no way it’s going through without that school added.
It does not include Fields Road. And yes, I agree Fields Road would be added. There's enough excess capacity in Crown/Wootton to add them.
Okay, it's kind of crazy to oppose option H because of a boundary change that isn't even in option H. But even if they added Fields Road, that would bump up the Wootton FARMS rate from 14% to like 19% or so. In a county where the average FARMS rate is 43%.
Adding fields road will make it overcrowded. Other than I have no problem of adding them. The remaining space is only enough for either crown or fields road and not even counting the new development
Look again at the enrollment numbers.
Sorry, I counted wrong. You're right. It would be about 200 over.
I'm sure could move some from Wootton over into GHS to make room for Field Rd.
Or, more seriously, the western part of Wootton could go to QO.
You want Wootton families to support adding fields road by rezoning themselves out?
No, I want the BoE to make sensible a decision regardless of Wootton's temper tantruming.
You need to advocate for your school and kids! Unless you are Wootton-then you have to keep your mouth shut.
Make sure you are loud-write letters, make signs, attend meetings! Unless you are Wootton-then you have to keep your mouth shut.
The squeakiest wheel gets the oil! Unless you are Wootton then you are not allowed to talk about problems because other people also have problems.
In closing-Wootton can’t ever ask for anything because it makes them look entitled. So if they do ask they should get punished.
Why do you expect us to fix the mess you created? You are not offering any alternative solutions, just complaining.
oh parents created the mess???? No-parents have been paying their taxes and mcps has been spending money on boundary studies and other nonsense instead of maintaining its schools. How could you possibly blame the school’s condition on the parents?
Again, you created the mess at Wootton, you fix it. Many schools have the same issues. We all pay taxes.
Again, please tell me how parents caused the Wootton building to be in disrepair. And “many” schools are not as bad as Wootton. 1 is-per the actual data. Many isn’t 1.
Correct. MCPS took Wootton off the CIP 3 times. In the meantime, it built a brand new school in a highly congested area using faulty enrollment numbers. Maybe it always thought it could break up Wootton, but didn’t expect the massive pushback it’s getting now. MCPS has painted itself into a corner here, but that’s not the fault of Wootton families, no matter how much a couple of trolls on this thread want it to be.
The Wootton families pushing for a full renovation have calmed down. There’s no material dissension among Wootton families. Stop claiming there is.
And, they are offering you that new school.
So what? It’s not an offer if it’s being forced. An offer means you are free to decline.
You are free to decline. Send your kids to private school on your own dime.
Aw, poor little troll got caught by his own words and said the quiet part out loud. Thanks for agreeing with Wootton families.
Why keep that quiet? The Wootton parents have the money for private school.
Though, I strongly suspect that the loudest voices opposing H here don't even have kids in school anymore.
umm no. We certainly do not have money for private school. Secular private school costs 40-60k a year. Again, you are thinking Wootton parents have a lot more money than they do.
Then, you have a spending issue and you need to make changes to be able to afford it if that’s what you want. How will you pay for college? Where is all your money going?
Omg! Bro, stay in your lane - not only inappropriate but incredibly off base. Do you not pay taxes? Make donations? Try to buy high quality food? You don’t know how many kids ppl have. I can’t believe I’m stopping to actually answer this but you’re out of line. Maybe they can’t do private school because they put all extra money into college funds. Maybe they are caring for a sick family member or paying to support someone else?
Jesus, man. One who makes a certain amount know the realities and one who doesn’t can make accusations like you.
Yup, and much worse and we make it work. Having multiple kids is a choice. These are the same people who expect aid for college.
Ah. Ok. So in 2012 when people were having kids and living responsibly within their means, they should have been more careful in the event that the county known in part for education upturns everything and you may have to pay for private school?
You didn't know school boundaries could change? Really?
Not illegally, no we didn’t. No one is above the law.
Of course it’s legal.
Thanks Judge Judy. Glad to know it’s not up to you.
MCPS doesn’t want a lawsuit because as posted earlier in this thread there are numerous legal grounds for one.
Believe me when I say that nothing MCPS is doing right now isn’t going through the general counsel. MCPS knew boundary study stuff makes people litigious and is ensuring that their i’s and t’s are taken care of even if it
Isn’t in the way you’d like. They are three steps ahead on this one.
If MCPS was 3 steps ahead, it wouldn’t be in this mess of having to fill a school that shouldn’t have been built and fixing its mistake by moving Wootton. Alternatively, you’re saying that MCPS planned to move Wootton all along.
Which is it?
Different/unrelated messes and trying them is conspiracy theory level stuff that isn’t being taken seriously in CO. I don’t have info about what went on when decisions about building at the Crown site were being made but I can assure you that the Office of the Superintendent is not doing anything without input from Legal. They know your plans and have already consulted state officials to ensure you have no merits. I say this with kindness: don’t waste your money (or waste more money from a system that has less money than it should for capital improvement projects because of junk like this type of frivolous lawsuit).
Then how did Churchill families get MCPS to back off A-D in only 2 weeks? You give MCPS too much credit. Also, the political fallout during an election year is a major factor.
If MCPS had a slam dunk case, it would have started with Option H and rammed it through. The fact that there is massive opposition to it means that MCPS couldn’t see even its next move, much less 3 moves ahead.
Also, I believe county BOE decisions are appealed to the state, so you’re admitting there likely is collusion between them?
New numbers came out in that time and from my understanding that is when the contractors went back to the drawing board to generate 4 new options based on those numbers (that’s when the Churchill move didn’t seem quite as necessary.)
My understanding is that the need for a secondary holding school has always been a significant concern to Taylor and when these numbers showed such decline in enrollment, it presented the opportunity to actually make that happen. First it was thought to be Crown, then, and I don’t know how or when, it was shifted to be Wootton. TBH, it took Wootton two weeks to wake up and understand the implications for H, and I think in that time MCPS thought it was over without the fight. But apparently it was just a processing speed issue because here we are.
As for “collusion”—no, and stop conspiracy theory-ing everything. Ensuring you’re following protocol by those with more vast understanding of state law is not colluding, it’s making sure you understand the assignment before proceeding. Same as you’d encourage a student to do.
I wish I had time to go through your post line by line and show where you’re wrong, but I have a job. As for collusion, read the COMAR. MCPS can’t consult with the State BOE because that’s the appeal path for a school closure decision.
Surely you remember that MCPS consulted with the state BOE to ensure it would be permissible to use the Crown building as a holding school, per the agreement for the land---was that also collusion? Get a grip. Just because people are not leaving room for your lawsuits doesn't mean they're doing something wrong. To the contrary, it means they're doing something right.
You didn’t read the COMAR (or my post). Or you’re ignoring both and moving the goalposts.
I certainly did and I am well acquainted with Section 13A.02.09.00 which is the regulation I assume you are talking about. IF anyone truly believes this to be a closure (an enormous IF given we don't know for how long the Wootton building would stand as a holding facility or if there is a plan for it's use thereafter) there is no reason MCPS cannot meet the requirements for a closure after Taylor makes this recommendation. Closing a school, which in actuality, I do not believe this constitutes, is truly not that difficult and is simply a matter of procedure that can be done at any time so long as it meets the 4/30 or 90 day deadline.
Your entire premise assumes it’s not a closure, and even if it were, MCPS haš complied with the COMAR. That’s a matter for legal discovery, which MCPS doesn’t want.
MCPS doesn't care because the issue is not real so it will be a short and relatively inexpensive legal expense for them that saves them money in the long run. Less so for you both in terms of cost and perception of litigiousness/entitlement.
Anonymous wrote:100% the Wootton walkers are hanging their hat on option H being illegal. They cannot get through their head that MCPS would have vetted this plan to make sure it was legal before going forward with it as an option.
That is the smoking gun. They could vet the legality so as to force us into it, but they built the building without vetting the legality and they spent more time on vetting the legality than trying to anticipate enrollment.
EG they knew they were doing something that wasn't very good.
Building Crown was legal, but announcing and pushing hard an option to close/move a top school to fill it without appropriate due diligence and community input is not.
DP. Top school? I thought it was #191? Seems pretty far down the list if you ask me. But anyways, how is that relevant to any argument regarding whether the closure is legal or not?
Anonymous wrote:100% the Wootton walkers are hanging their hat on option H being illegal. They cannot get through their head that MCPS would have vetted this plan to make sure it was legal before going forward with it as an option.
That is the smoking gun. They could vet the legality so as to force us into it, but they built the building without vetting the legality and they spent more time on vetting the legality than trying to anticipate enrollment.
EG they knew they were doing something that wasn't very good.
Building Crown was legal, but announcing and pushing hard an option to close/move a top school to fill it without appropriate due diligence and community input is not.
There is no world in which "announcing and pushing hard" (whatever that means) is illegal.
Your entire premise assumes it’s not a closure, and even if it were, MCPS haš complied with the COMAR. That’s a matter for legal discovery, which MCPS doesn’t want.
So are you saying that basically, it is the threat alone that makes this untenable for MCPS? Or that there is merit? Because if it's the former, it's pretty disgusting to threaten a lawsuit and waste more money (yours and MCPS') just because you didn't get what you wanted.
Anonymous wrote:100% the Wootton walkers are hanging their hat on option H being illegal. They cannot get through their head that MCPS would have vetted this plan to make sure it was legal before going forward with it as an option.
That is the smoking gun. They could vet the legality so as to force us into it, but they built the building without vetting the legality and they spent more time on vetting the legality than trying to anticipate enrollment.
EG they knew they were doing something that wasn't very good.
Building Crown was legal, but announcing and pushing hard an option to close/move a top school to fill it without appropriate due diligence and community input is not.
DP. Top school? I thought it was #191? Seems pretty far down the list if you ask me. But anyways, how is that relevant to any argument regarding whether the closure is legal or not?
#191 in the county. #3 in the state. considering the high school I graduated from is like #17k something in the country i’d say they are doing pretty well.
Anonymous wrote:Let's picture a world where major league baseball was a not for profit organization. Everything would be done for the good of the game only. in this scenario, the league would have even more incentive to preserve successful teams like the Yankees and their legacy.
It is not in the best interests of MCPS to "Disappear" one of their most successful schools. It lowers the overall quality of the school system.
We at Wootton are not entitled. Let someone else have the new building. Giving it to us would be taking from those who need the new building more. We are fine where we are with minor repairs.
People will accuse Wootton of being entitled no matter what. Take the crown, you’re entitled.” Refuse to move, you’re entitled.” Apparently, simply existing as a successful high school in MoCo is enough to be labeled wrong
haven't see a post that states: "If Wootton parents get Crown, they are entitled."
They exist. And there was a whole video of kids from Gaithersburg presented to MCPS saying don’t take our school. Wootton families done want Crown, Gaithersburg families do. Why are people on this thread forcing something that the most affected people DON’T want? Option H doesn’t make the most sense when you consider it from their perspective.
“But it’s for the good of MCPS” and “MCPS can’t afford to fix Wootton”. Neither of these is true. Erasing a proven, top performing school with one that might, someday (unlikely) reach that same level of achievement isn’t in the best interests of MCPS as a whole. Likewise, MCPS can afford remediation of Wootton (not a full renovation). Do a zero base budgeting exercise within MCPS and suddenly tens of millions of dollars will be found.
Doesn't H send both Gaithersburg and Wootton families to Crown? (Obviously not 100% of Gaithersburg families to Crown, but no option would.). Seems pretty win-win to me.
Only the richest part of Gaithersburg and very few people in Gaithersburg would benefit from it as Wootton would take away majority of the seats. Gaithersburg high will be less diverse too with the richest area leaving.
Oh weird, I thought from all the Wootton folks complaining that it was poor kids from Gaithersburg that would be going to the new Wootton (Crown) under option H. Are Wootton families just that elitist that they can't stand any families that aren't super rich?
No, crown people are super rich. Certainly richer than most of Wootton. Wootton doesn’t have that many 2 million dollars single family houses and 1 million townhouses. But crown does. I’m not sure who’s more elitist. But that doesn’t mean they are ok with moving. You can’t dismiss all the valid points on wanting to keep Wootton on Wootton parkway
You're being disingenuous. Yes, there are some very expensive homes in Crown, just like there are some very expensive homes in Wootton's current boundaries. Overall, the median income of people that moved into Wootton at Crown from Gaithersburg would be lower than current Wootton's median income. I'm sure you know that.
Right but everyone sometimes has to deal with boundary changes that slightly change their median income, that's just life and doesn't really a meaningful impact on most people/schools most of the time. Wootton people have been talking about how option H boundaries would radically change the nature of Wootton, which mostly only happens when you add hundreds of FARMS kids to a school, so that's what I assumed was happening. Is that not right? If it's just a mild increase in FARMS rates/decrease in average income, who cares?
Holy crap. I just went to look it up myself and option H changes Wootton from 14.0% FARMS to 14.8% FARMS. That is what they are freaking out about? What the heck is wrong with those people?
That percentage is accounting for fields road as well? I am asking because if H does go through there is no way it’s going through without that school added.
It does not include Fields Road. And yes, I agree Fields Road would be added. There's enough excess capacity in Crown/Wootton to add them.
Okay, it's kind of crazy to oppose option H because of a boundary change that isn't even in option H. But even if they added Fields Road, that would bump up the Wootton FARMS rate from 14% to like 19% or so. In a county where the average FARMS rate is 43%.
Adding fields road will make it overcrowded. Other than I have no problem of adding them. The remaining space is only enough for either crown or fields road and not even counting the new development
Look again at the enrollment numbers.
Sorry, I counted wrong. You're right. It would be about 200 over.
I'm sure could move some from Wootton over into GHS to make room for Field Rd.
Or, more seriously, the western part of Wootton could go to QO.
You want Wootton families to support adding fields road by rezoning themselves out?
No, I want the BoE to make sensible a decision regardless of Wootton's temper tantruming.
You need to advocate for your school and kids! Unless you are Wootton-then you have to keep your mouth shut.
Make sure you are loud-write letters, make signs, attend meetings! Unless you are Wootton-then you have to keep your mouth shut.
The squeakiest wheel gets the oil! Unless you are Wootton then you are not allowed to talk about problems because other people also have problems.
In closing-Wootton can’t ever ask for anything because it makes them look entitled. So if they do ask they should get punished.
Why do you expect us to fix the mess you created? You are not offering any alternative solutions, just complaining.
oh parents created the mess???? No-parents have been paying their taxes and mcps has been spending money on boundary studies and other nonsense instead of maintaining its schools. How could you possibly blame the school’s condition on the parents?
Again, you created the mess at Wootton, you fix it. Many schools have the same issues. We all pay taxes.
Again, please tell me how parents caused the Wootton building to be in disrepair. And “many” schools are not as bad as Wootton. 1 is-per the actual data. Many isn’t 1.
Correct. MCPS took Wootton off the CIP 3 times. In the meantime, it built a brand new school in a highly congested area using faulty enrollment numbers. Maybe it always thought it could break up Wootton, but didn’t expect the massive pushback it’s getting now. MCPS has painted itself into a corner here, but that’s not the fault of Wootton families, no matter how much a couple of trolls on this thread want it to be.
The Wootton families pushing for a full renovation have calmed down. There’s no material dissension among Wootton families. Stop claiming there is.
And, they are offering you that new school.
So what? It’s not an offer if it’s being forced. An offer means you are free to decline.
You are free to decline. Send your kids to private school on your own dime.
Aw, poor little troll got caught by his own words and said the quiet part out loud. Thanks for agreeing with Wootton families.
Why keep that quiet? The Wootton parents have the money for private school.
Though, I strongly suspect that the loudest voices opposing H here don't even have kids in school anymore.
umm no. We certainly do not have money for private school. Secular private school costs 40-60k a year. Again, you are thinking Wootton parents have a lot more money than they do.
Then, you have a spending issue and you need to make changes to be able to afford it if that’s what you want. How will you pay for college? Where is all your money going?
Omg! Bro, stay in your lane - not only inappropriate but incredibly off base. Do you not pay taxes? Make donations? Try to buy high quality food? You don’t know how many kids ppl have. I can’t believe I’m stopping to actually answer this but you’re out of line. Maybe they can’t do private school because they put all extra money into college funds. Maybe they are caring for a sick family member or paying to support someone else?
Jesus, man. One who makes a certain amount know the realities and one who doesn’t can make accusations like you.
Yup, and much worse and we make it work. Having multiple kids is a choice. These are the same people who expect aid for college.
Ah. Ok. So in 2012 when people were having kids and living responsibly within their means, they should have been more careful in the event that the county known in part for education upturns everything and you may have to pay for private school?
You didn't know school boundaries could change? Really?
Not illegally, no we didn’t. No one is above the law.
Of course it’s legal.
Thanks Judge Judy. Glad to know it’s not up to you.
MCPS doesn’t want a lawsuit because as posted earlier in this thread there are numerous legal grounds for one.
Believe me when I say that nothing MCPS is doing right now isn’t going through the general counsel. MCPS knew boundary study stuff makes people litigious and is ensuring that their i’s and t’s are taken care of even if it
Isn’t in the way you’d like. They are three steps ahead on this one.
If MCPS was 3 steps ahead, it wouldn’t be in this mess of having to fill a school that shouldn’t have been built and fixing its mistake by moving Wootton. Alternatively, you’re saying that MCPS planned to move Wootton all along.
Which is it?
Different/unrelated messes and trying them is conspiracy theory level stuff that isn’t being taken seriously in CO. I don’t have info about what went on when decisions about building at the Crown site were being made but I can assure you that the Office of the Superintendent is not doing anything without input from Legal. They know your plans and have already consulted state officials to ensure you have no merits. I say this with kindness: don’t waste your money (or waste more money from a system that has less money than it should for capital improvement projects because of junk like this type of frivolous lawsuit).
Then how did Churchill families get MCPS to back off A-D in only 2 weeks? You give MCPS too much credit. Also, the political fallout during an election year is a major factor.
If MCPS had a slam dunk case, it would have started with Option H and rammed it through. The fact that there is massive opposition to it means that MCPS couldn’t see even its next move, much less 3 moves ahead.
Also, I believe county BOE decisions are appealed to the state, so you’re admitting there likely is collusion between them?
New numbers came out in that time and from my understanding that is when the contractors went back to the drawing board to generate 4 new options based on those numbers (that’s when the Churchill move didn’t seem quite as necessary.)
My understanding is that the need for a secondary holding school has always been a significant concern to Taylor and when these numbers showed such decline in enrollment, it presented the opportunity to actually make that happen. First it was thought to be Crown, then, and I don’t know how or when, it was shifted to be Wootton. TBH, it took Wootton two weeks to wake up and understand the implications for H, and I think in that time MCPS thought it was over without the fight. But apparently it was just a processing speed issue because here we are.
As for “collusion”—no, and stop conspiracy theory-ing everything. Ensuring you’re following protocol by those with more vast understanding of state law is not colluding, it’s making sure you understand the assignment before proceeding. Same as you’d encourage a student to do.
I wish I had time to go through your post line by line and show where you’re wrong, but I have a job. As for collusion, read the COMAR. MCPS can’t consult with the State BOE because that’s the appeal path for a school closure decision.
Surely you remember that MCPS consulted with the state BOE to ensure it would be permissible to use the Crown building as a holding school, per the agreement for the land---was that also collusion? Get a grip. Just because people are not leaving room for your lawsuits doesn't mean they're doing something wrong. To the contrary, it means they're doing something right.
You didn’t read the COMAR (or my post). Or you’re ignoring both and moving the goalposts.
I certainly did and I am well acquainted with Section 13A.02.09.00 which is the regulation I assume you are talking about. IF anyone truly believes this to be a closure (an enormous IF given we don't know for how long the Wootton building would stand as a holding facility or if there is a plan for it's use thereafter) there is no reason MCPS cannot meet the requirements for a closure after Taylor makes this recommendation. Closing a school, which in actuality, I do not believe this constitutes, is truly not that difficult and is simply a matter of procedure that can be done at any time so long as it meets the 4/30 or 90 day deadline.
Your entire premise assumes it’s not a closure, and even if it were, MCPS haš complied with the COMAR. That’s a matter for legal discovery, which MCPS doesn’t want.
Discovery? The facts aren't in dispute. Are you back to coming up with conspiracy theories?
And as the PP said, even if you think this is a closure, there's plenty of time to meet the legal requirements. They basically just would need to advertise in 2 newspapers and hold a final hearing. They've done the other parts.
Anonymous wrote:100% the Wootton walkers are hanging their hat on option H being illegal. They cannot get through their head that MCPS would have vetted this plan to make sure it was legal before going forward with it as an option.
That is the smoking gun. They could vet the legality so as to force us into it, but they built the building without vetting the legality and they spent more time on vetting the legality than trying to anticipate enrollment.
EG they knew they were doing something that wasn't very good.
Building Crown was legal, but announcing and pushing hard an option to close/move a top school to fill it without appropriate due diligence and community input is not.
DP. Top school? I thought it was #191? Seems pretty far down the list if you ask me. But anyways, how is that relevant to any argument regarding whether the closure is legal or not?
#191 in the county. #3 in the state. considering the high school I graduated from is like #17k something in the country i’d say they are doing pretty well.
As has been discussed, that's a reflection of the quality (wealth) of the students, not in the quality of the school.
Anonymous wrote:100% the Wootton walkers are hanging their hat on option H being illegal. They cannot get through their head that MCPS would have vetted this plan to make sure it was legal before going forward with it as an option.
That is the smoking gun. They could vet the legality so as to force us into it, but they built the building without vetting the legality and they spent more time on vetting the legality than trying to anticipate enrollment.
EG they knew they were doing something that wasn't very good.
Building Crown was legal, but announcing and pushing hard an option to close/move a top school to fill it without appropriate due diligence and community input is not.
DP. Top school? I thought it was #191? Seems pretty far down the list if you ask me. But anyways, how is that relevant to any argument regarding whether the closure is legal or not?
#191 in the county. #3 in the state. considering the high school I graduated from is like #17k something in the country i’d say they are doing pretty well.
As has been discussed, that's a reflection of the quality (wealth) of the students, not in the quality of the school.
And yet, it doesn’t change the statistics of how it’s a top school. It doesn’t really matter if you like the reasons. I was answering the ignorant question about how #191 was implied to be not great. Seems you and/or this person don’t know how many high schools there are in this country.
Anonymous wrote:Let's picture a world where major league baseball was a not for profit organization. Everything would be done for the good of the game only. in this scenario, the league would have even more incentive to preserve successful teams like the Yankees and their legacy.
It is not in the best interests of MCPS to "Disappear" one of their most successful schools. It lowers the overall quality of the school system.
We at Wootton are not entitled. Let someone else have the new building. Giving it to us would be taking from those who need the new building more. We are fine where we are with minor repairs.
People will accuse Wootton of being entitled no matter what. Take the crown, you’re entitled.” Refuse to move, you’re entitled.” Apparently, simply existing as a successful high school in MoCo is enough to be labeled wrong
haven't see a post that states: "If Wootton parents get Crown, they are entitled."
They exist. And there was a whole video of kids from Gaithersburg presented to MCPS saying don’t take our school. Wootton families done want Crown, Gaithersburg families do. Why are people on this thread forcing something that the most affected people DON’T want? Option H doesn’t make the most sense when you consider it from their perspective.
“But it’s for the good of MCPS” and “MCPS can’t afford to fix Wootton”. Neither of these is true. Erasing a proven, top performing school with one that might, someday (unlikely) reach that same level of achievement isn’t in the best interests of MCPS as a whole. Likewise, MCPS can afford remediation of Wootton (not a full renovation). Do a zero base budgeting exercise within MCPS and suddenly tens of millions of dollars will be found.
Doesn't H send both Gaithersburg and Wootton families to Crown? (Obviously not 100% of Gaithersburg families to Crown, but no option would.). Seems pretty win-win to me.
Only the richest part of Gaithersburg and very few people in Gaithersburg would benefit from it as Wootton would take away majority of the seats. Gaithersburg high will be less diverse too with the richest area leaving.
Oh weird, I thought from all the Wootton folks complaining that it was poor kids from Gaithersburg that would be going to the new Wootton (Crown) under option H. Are Wootton families just that elitist that they can't stand any families that aren't super rich?
No, crown people are super rich. Certainly richer than most of Wootton. Wootton doesn’t have that many 2 million dollars single family houses and 1 million townhouses. But crown does. I’m not sure who’s more elitist. But that doesn’t mean they are ok with moving. You can’t dismiss all the valid points on wanting to keep Wootton on Wootton parkway
You're being disingenuous. Yes, there are some very expensive homes in Crown, just like there are some very expensive homes in Wootton's current boundaries. Overall, the median income of people that moved into Wootton at Crown from Gaithersburg would be lower than current Wootton's median income. I'm sure you know that.
Right but everyone sometimes has to deal with boundary changes that slightly change their median income, that's just life and doesn't really a meaningful impact on most people/schools most of the time. Wootton people have been talking about how option H boundaries would radically change the nature of Wootton, which mostly only happens when you add hundreds of FARMS kids to a school, so that's what I assumed was happening. Is that not right? If it's just a mild increase in FARMS rates/decrease in average income, who cares?
Holy crap. I just went to look it up myself and option H changes Wootton from 14.0% FARMS to 14.8% FARMS. That is what they are freaking out about? What the heck is wrong with those people?
That percentage is accounting for fields road as well? I am asking because if H does go through there is no way it’s going through without that school added.
It does not include Fields Road. And yes, I agree Fields Road would be added. There's enough excess capacity in Crown/Wootton to add them.
Okay, it's kind of crazy to oppose option H because of a boundary change that isn't even in option H. But even if they added Fields Road, that would bump up the Wootton FARMS rate from 14% to like 19% or so. In a county where the average FARMS rate is 43%.
Adding fields road will make it overcrowded. Other than I have no problem of adding them. The remaining space is only enough for either crown or fields road and not even counting the new development
Look again at the enrollment numbers.
Sorry, I counted wrong. You're right. It would be about 200 over.
I'm sure could move some from Wootton over into GHS to make room for Field Rd.
Or, more seriously, the western part of Wootton could go to QO.
You want Wootton families to support adding fields road by rezoning themselves out?
No, I want the BoE to make sensible a decision regardless of Wootton's temper tantruming.
You need to advocate for your school and kids! Unless you are Wootton-then you have to keep your mouth shut.
Make sure you are loud-write letters, make signs, attend meetings! Unless you are Wootton-then you have to keep your mouth shut.
The squeakiest wheel gets the oil! Unless you are Wootton then you are not allowed to talk about problems because other people also have problems.
In closing-Wootton can’t ever ask for anything because it makes them look entitled. So if they do ask they should get punished.
Why do you expect us to fix the mess you created? You are not offering any alternative solutions, just complaining.
oh parents created the mess???? No-parents have been paying their taxes and mcps has been spending money on boundary studies and other nonsense instead of maintaining its schools. How could you possibly blame the school’s condition on the parents?
Again, you created the mess at Wootton, you fix it. Many schools have the same issues. We all pay taxes.
Again, please tell me how parents caused the Wootton building to be in disrepair. And “many” schools are not as bad as Wootton. 1 is-per the actual data. Many isn’t 1.
Correct. MCPS took Wootton off the CIP 3 times. In the meantime, it built a brand new school in a highly congested area using faulty enrollment numbers. Maybe it always thought it could break up Wootton, but didn’t expect the massive pushback it’s getting now. MCPS has painted itself into a corner here, but that’s not the fault of Wootton families, no matter how much a couple of trolls on this thread want it to be.
The Wootton families pushing for a full renovation have calmed down. There’s no material dissension among Wootton families. Stop claiming there is.
And, they are offering you that new school.
So what? It’s not an offer if it’s being forced. An offer means you are free to decline.
You are free to decline. Send your kids to private school on your own dime.
Aw, poor little troll got caught by his own words and said the quiet part out loud. Thanks for agreeing with Wootton families.
Why keep that quiet? The Wootton parents have the money for private school.
Though, I strongly suspect that the loudest voices opposing H here don't even have kids in school anymore.
umm no. We certainly do not have money for private school. Secular private school costs 40-60k a year. Again, you are thinking Wootton parents have a lot more money than they do.
Then, you have a spending issue and you need to make changes to be able to afford it if that’s what you want. How will you pay for college? Where is all your money going?
Omg! Bro, stay in your lane - not only inappropriate but incredibly off base. Do you not pay taxes? Make donations? Try to buy high quality food? You don’t know how many kids ppl have. I can’t believe I’m stopping to actually answer this but you’re out of line. Maybe they can’t do private school because they put all extra money into college funds. Maybe they are caring for a sick family member or paying to support someone else?
Jesus, man. One who makes a certain amount know the realities and one who doesn’t can make accusations like you.
Yup, and much worse and we make it work. Having multiple kids is a choice. These are the same people who expect aid for college.
Ah. Ok. So in 2012 when people were having kids and living responsibly within their means, they should have been more careful in the event that the county known in part for education upturns everything and you may have to pay for private school?
You didn't know school boundaries could change? Really?
Not illegally, no we didn’t. No one is above the law.
Of course it’s legal.
Thanks Judge Judy. Glad to know it’s not up to you.
MCPS doesn’t want a lawsuit because as posted earlier in this thread there are numerous legal grounds for one.
Believe me when I say that nothing MCPS is doing right now isn’t going through the general counsel. MCPS knew boundary study stuff makes people litigious and is ensuring that their i’s and t’s are taken care of even if it
Isn’t in the way you’d like. They are three steps ahead on this one.
If MCPS was 3 steps ahead, it wouldn’t be in this mess of having to fill a school that shouldn’t have been built and fixing its mistake by moving Wootton. Alternatively, you’re saying that MCPS planned to move Wootton all along.
Which is it?
Different/unrelated messes and trying them is conspiracy theory level stuff that isn’t being taken seriously in CO. I don’t have info about what went on when decisions about building at the Crown site were being made but I can assure you that the Office of the Superintendent is not doing anything without input from Legal. They know your plans and have already consulted state officials to ensure you have no merits. I say this with kindness: don’t waste your money (or waste more money from a system that has less money than it should for capital improvement projects because of junk like this type of frivolous lawsuit).
Then how did Churchill families get MCPS to back off A-D in only 2 weeks? You give MCPS too much credit. Also, the political fallout during an election year is a major factor.
If MCPS had a slam dunk case, it would have started with Option H and rammed it through. The fact that there is massive opposition to it means that MCPS couldn’t see even its next move, much less 3 moves ahead.
Also, I believe county BOE decisions are appealed to the state, so you’re admitting there likely is collusion between them?
New numbers came out in that time and from my understanding that is when the contractors went back to the drawing board to generate 4 new options based on those numbers (that’s when the Churchill move didn’t seem quite as necessary.)
My understanding is that the need for a secondary holding school has always been a significant concern to Taylor and when these numbers showed such decline in enrollment, it presented the opportunity to actually make that happen. First it was thought to be Crown, then, and I don’t know how or when, it was shifted to be Wootton. TBH, it took Wootton two weeks to wake up and understand the implications for H, and I think in that time MCPS thought it was over without the fight. But apparently it was just a processing speed issue because here we are.
As for “collusion”—no, and stop conspiracy theory-ing everything. Ensuring you’re following protocol by those with more vast understanding of state law is not colluding, it’s making sure you understand the assignment before proceeding. Same as you’d encourage a student to do.
I wish I had time to go through your post line by line and show where you’re wrong, but I have a job. As for collusion, read the COMAR. MCPS can’t consult with the State BOE because that’s the appeal path for a school closure decision.
Surely you remember that MCPS consulted with the state BOE to ensure it would be permissible to use the Crown building as a holding school, per the agreement for the land---was that also collusion? Get a grip. Just because people are not leaving room for your lawsuits doesn't mean they're doing something wrong. To the contrary, it means they're doing something right.
You didn’t read the COMAR (or my post). Or you’re ignoring both and moving the goalposts.
I certainly did and I am well acquainted with Section 13A.02.09.00 which is the regulation I assume you are talking about. IF anyone truly believes this to be a closure (an enormous IF given we don't know for how long the Wootton building would stand as a holding facility or if there is a plan for it's use thereafter) there is no reason MCPS cannot meet the requirements for a closure after Taylor makes this recommendation. Closing a school, which in actuality, I do not believe this constitutes, is truly not that difficult and is simply a matter of procedure that can be done at any time so long as it meets the 4/30 or 90 day deadline.
Your entire premise assumes it’s not a closure, and even if it were, MCPS haš complied with the COMAR. That’s a matter for legal discovery, which MCPS doesn’t want.
Discovery? The facts aren't in dispute. Are you back to coming up with conspiracy theories?
And as the PP said, even if you think this is a closure, there's plenty of time to meet the legal requirements. They basically just would need to advertise in 2 newspapers and hold a final hearing. They've done the other parts.
Dispute of material facts is a summary judgment standard, which comes AFTER discovery (of the facts). You’re thinking of a motion to dismiss, the standards for which are either procedural or failure to state a claim. The latter requires that a court assume all of the plaintiff’s facts are true before granting dismissal (usually without prejudice, which means it can be refiled with new or different facts).
MCPS will never want to admit moving Wootton is a closure. The media firestorm of closing a top school will be brutal. MCPS will go back to the drawing board before it does that.
Anonymous wrote:Let's picture a world where major league baseball was a not for profit organization. Everything would be done for the good of the game only. in this scenario, the league would have even more incentive to preserve successful teams like the Yankees and their legacy.
It is not in the best interests of MCPS to "Disappear" one of their most successful schools. It lowers the overall quality of the school system.
We at Wootton are not entitled. Let someone else have the new building. Giving it to us would be taking from those who need the new building more. We are fine where we are with minor repairs.
People will accuse Wootton of being entitled no matter what. Take the crown, you’re entitled.” Refuse to move, you’re entitled.” Apparently, simply existing as a successful high school in MoCo is enough to be labeled wrong
haven't see a post that states: "If Wootton parents get Crown, they are entitled."
They exist. And there was a whole video of kids from Gaithersburg presented to MCPS saying don’t take our school. Wootton families done want Crown, Gaithersburg families do. Why are people on this thread forcing something that the most affected people DON’T want? Option H doesn’t make the most sense when you consider it from their perspective.
“But it’s for the good of MCPS” and “MCPS can’t afford to fix Wootton”. Neither of these is true. Erasing a proven, top performing school with one that might, someday (unlikely) reach that same level of achievement isn’t in the best interests of MCPS as a whole. Likewise, MCPS can afford remediation of Wootton (not a full renovation). Do a zero base budgeting exercise within MCPS and suddenly tens of millions of dollars will be found.
Doesn't H send both Gaithersburg and Wootton families to Crown? (Obviously not 100% of Gaithersburg families to Crown, but no option would.). Seems pretty win-win to me.
Only the richest part of Gaithersburg and very few people in Gaithersburg would benefit from it as Wootton would take away majority of the seats. Gaithersburg high will be less diverse too with the richest area leaving.
Oh weird, I thought from all the Wootton folks complaining that it was poor kids from Gaithersburg that would be going to the new Wootton (Crown) under option H. Are Wootton families just that elitist that they can't stand any families that aren't super rich?
No, crown people are super rich. Certainly richer than most of Wootton. Wootton doesn’t have that many 2 million dollars single family houses and 1 million townhouses. But crown does. I’m not sure who’s more elitist. But that doesn’t mean they are ok with moving. You can’t dismiss all the valid points on wanting to keep Wootton on Wootton parkway
You're being disingenuous. Yes, there are some very expensive homes in Crown, just like there are some very expensive homes in Wootton's current boundaries. Overall, the median income of people that moved into Wootton at Crown from Gaithersburg would be lower than current Wootton's median income. I'm sure you know that.
Right but everyone sometimes has to deal with boundary changes that slightly change their median income, that's just life and doesn't really a meaningful impact on most people/schools most of the time. Wootton people have been talking about how option H boundaries would radically change the nature of Wootton, which mostly only happens when you add hundreds of FARMS kids to a school, so that's what I assumed was happening. Is that not right? If it's just a mild increase in FARMS rates/decrease in average income, who cares?
Holy crap. I just went to look it up myself and option H changes Wootton from 14.0% FARMS to 14.8% FARMS. That is what they are freaking out about? What the heck is wrong with those people?
That percentage is accounting for fields road as well? I am asking because if H does go through there is no way it’s going through without that school added.
It does not include Fields Road. And yes, I agree Fields Road would be added. There's enough excess capacity in Crown/Wootton to add them.
Okay, it's kind of crazy to oppose option H because of a boundary change that isn't even in option H. But even if they added Fields Road, that would bump up the Wootton FARMS rate from 14% to like 19% or so. In a county where the average FARMS rate is 43%.
Adding fields road will make it overcrowded. Other than I have no problem of adding them. The remaining space is only enough for either crown or fields road and not even counting the new development
Look again at the enrollment numbers.
Sorry, I counted wrong. You're right. It would be about 200 over.
I'm sure could move some from Wootton over into GHS to make room for Field Rd.
Or, more seriously, the western part of Wootton could go to QO.
You want Wootton families to support adding fields road by rezoning themselves out?
No, I want the BoE to make sensible a decision regardless of Wootton's temper tantruming.
You need to advocate for your school and kids! Unless you are Wootton-then you have to keep your mouth shut.
Make sure you are loud-write letters, make signs, attend meetings! Unless you are Wootton-then you have to keep your mouth shut.
The squeakiest wheel gets the oil! Unless you are Wootton then you are not allowed to talk about problems because other people also have problems.
In closing-Wootton can’t ever ask for anything because it makes them look entitled. So if they do ask they should get punished.
Why do you expect us to fix the mess you created? You are not offering any alternative solutions, just complaining.
oh parents created the mess???? No-parents have been paying their taxes and mcps has been spending money on boundary studies and other nonsense instead of maintaining its schools. How could you possibly blame the school’s condition on the parents?
Again, you created the mess at Wootton, you fix it. Many schools have the same issues. We all pay taxes.
Again, please tell me how parents caused the Wootton building to be in disrepair. And “many” schools are not as bad as Wootton. 1 is-per the actual data. Many isn’t 1.
Correct. MCPS took Wootton off the CIP 3 times. In the meantime, it built a brand new school in a highly congested area using faulty enrollment numbers. Maybe it always thought it could break up Wootton, but didn’t expect the massive pushback it’s getting now. MCPS has painted itself into a corner here, but that’s not the fault of Wootton families, no matter how much a couple of trolls on this thread want it to be.
The Wootton families pushing for a full renovation have calmed down. There’s no material dissension among Wootton families. Stop claiming there is.
And, they are offering you that new school.
So what? It’s not an offer if it’s being forced. An offer means you are free to decline.
You are free to decline. Send your kids to private school on your own dime.
Aw, poor little troll got caught by his own words and said the quiet part out loud. Thanks for agreeing with Wootton families.
Why keep that quiet? The Wootton parents have the money for private school.
Though, I strongly suspect that the loudest voices opposing H here don't even have kids in school anymore.
umm no. We certainly do not have money for private school. Secular private school costs 40-60k a year. Again, you are thinking Wootton parents have a lot more money than they do.
Then, you have a spending issue and you need to make changes to be able to afford it if that’s what you want. How will you pay for college? Where is all your money going?
Omg! Bro, stay in your lane - not only inappropriate but incredibly off base. Do you not pay taxes? Make donations? Try to buy high quality food? You don’t know how many kids ppl have. I can’t believe I’m stopping to actually answer this but you’re out of line. Maybe they can’t do private school because they put all extra money into college funds. Maybe they are caring for a sick family member or paying to support someone else?
Jesus, man. One who makes a certain amount know the realities and one who doesn’t can make accusations like you.
Yup, and much worse and we make it work. Having multiple kids is a choice. These are the same people who expect aid for college.
Ah. Ok. So in 2012 when people were having kids and living responsibly within their means, they should have been more careful in the event that the county known in part for education upturns everything and you may have to pay for private school?
You didn't know school boundaries could change? Really?
Not illegally, no we didn’t. No one is above the law.
Of course it’s legal.
Thanks Judge Judy. Glad to know it’s not up to you.
MCPS doesn’t want a lawsuit because as posted earlier in this thread there are numerous legal grounds for one.
Believe me when I say that nothing MCPS is doing right now isn’t going through the general counsel. MCPS knew boundary study stuff makes people litigious and is ensuring that their i’s and t’s are taken care of even if it
Isn’t in the way you’d like. They are three steps ahead on this one.
If MCPS was 3 steps ahead, it wouldn’t be in this mess of having to fill a school that shouldn’t have been built and fixing its mistake by moving Wootton. Alternatively, you’re saying that MCPS planned to move Wootton all along.
Which is it?
Different/unrelated messes and trying them is conspiracy theory level stuff that isn’t being taken seriously in CO. I don’t have info about what went on when decisions about building at the Crown site were being made but I can assure you that the Office of the Superintendent is not doing anything without input from Legal. They know your plans and have already consulted state officials to ensure you have no merits. I say this with kindness: don’t waste your money (or waste more money from a system that has less money than it should for capital improvement projects because of junk like this type of frivolous lawsuit).
Then how did Churchill families get MCPS to back off A-D in only 2 weeks? You give MCPS too much credit. Also, the political fallout during an election year is a major factor.
If MCPS had a slam dunk case, it would have started with Option H and rammed it through. The fact that there is massive opposition to it means that MCPS couldn’t see even its next move, much less 3 moves ahead.
Also, I believe county BOE decisions are appealed to the state, so you’re admitting there likely is collusion between them?
New numbers came out in that time and from my understanding that is when the contractors went back to the drawing board to generate 4 new options based on those numbers (that’s when the Churchill move didn’t seem quite as necessary.)
My understanding is that the need for a secondary holding school has always been a significant concern to Taylor and when these numbers showed such decline in enrollment, it presented the opportunity to actually make that happen. First it was thought to be Crown, then, and I don’t know how or when, it was shifted to be Wootton. TBH, it took Wootton two weeks to wake up and understand the implications for H, and I think in that time MCPS thought it was over without the fight. But apparently it was just a processing speed issue because here we are.
As for “collusion”—no, and stop conspiracy theory-ing everything. Ensuring you’re following protocol by those with more vast understanding of state law is not colluding, it’s making sure you understand the assignment before proceeding. Same as you’d encourage a student to do.
I wish I had time to go through your post line by line and show where you’re wrong, but I have a job. As for collusion, read the COMAR. MCPS can’t consult with the State BOE because that’s the appeal path for a school closure decision.
Surely you remember that MCPS consulted with the state BOE to ensure it would be permissible to use the Crown building as a holding school, per the agreement for the land---was that also collusion? Get a grip. Just because people are not leaving room for your lawsuits doesn't mean they're doing something wrong. To the contrary, it means they're doing something right.
You didn’t read the COMAR (or my post). Or you’re ignoring both and moving the goalposts.
I certainly did and I am well acquainted with Section 13A.02.09.00 which is the regulation I assume you are talking about. IF anyone truly believes this to be a closure (an enormous IF given we don't know for how long the Wootton building would stand as a holding facility or if there is a plan for it's use thereafter) there is no reason MCPS cannot meet the requirements for a closure after Taylor makes this recommendation. Closing a school, which in actuality, I do not believe this constitutes, is truly not that difficult and is simply a matter of procedure that can be done at any time so long as it meets the 4/30 or 90 day deadline.
Your entire premise assumes it’s not a closure, and even if it were, MCPS haš complied with the COMAR. That’s a matter for legal discovery, which MCPS doesn’t want.
Discovery? The facts aren't in dispute. Are you back to coming up with conspiracy theories?
And as the PP said, even if you think this is a closure, there's plenty of time to meet the legal requirements. They basically just would need to advertise in 2 newspapers and hold a final hearing. They've done the other parts.
Dispute of material facts is a summary judgment standard, which comes AFTER discovery (of the facts). You’re thinking of a motion to dismiss, the standards for which are either procedural or failure to state a claim. The latter requires that a court assume all of the plaintiff’s facts are true before granting dismissal (usually without prejudice, which means it can be refiled with new or different facts).
MCPS will never want to admit moving Wootton is a closure. The media firestorm of closing a top school will be brutal. MCPS will go back to the drawing board before it does that.
Let's suppose that's true. They still don't need to use the word "closure". They just need to meet the legal requirements for notice and public input.
Anonymous wrote:100% the Wootton walkers are hanging their hat on option H being illegal. They cannot get through their head that MCPS would have vetted this plan to make sure it was legal before going forward with it as an option.
That is the smoking gun. They could vet the legality so as to force us into it, but they built the building without vetting the legality and they spent more time on vetting the legality than trying to anticipate enrollment.
EG they knew they were doing something that wasn't very good.
Building Crown was legal, but announcing and pushing hard an option to close/move a top school to fill it without appropriate due diligence and community input is not.
There is no world in which "announcing and pushing hard" (whatever that means) is illegal.
+1. How exactly are they "pushing hard"? There are eight options, and they're asking for feedback on each of them. The board is waiting for Taylor to recommend something before they say anything.
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