Plane crash DCA?

[Anonymous]

Those images are green phosphorus NVGs. They use white phosphorus now. And even still in the second image it would be easy to “lose” a very low flying aircraft.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who has been involved in accident investigations, I prefer that the crewmember information NOT be released at this stage. It should be anonymized during the course of the investigation, so as to avoid any risk of subconscious bias (or even the appearance of such). Let the investigation go where the data leads. Once a probable cause has been determined, IF there is reason to suspect that the skills, training or experience of the personnel were a factor, THEN proceed to examine their records to determine where those factors fell short.

The only reason to examine records at this point, before anyone has a full picture of what happened, is to scapegoat the least experienced member of the team. (And btw, it's not always the least experienced person who actually made the mistake! Another good reason to wait for the investigation to conclude on the evidence before jumping to blame any individual.)

That sounds reasonable. But that also isn’t how things are done here. The two other crew members’ names have been released. The American Airlines pilots’ names have been released. They are withholding one name. The name of the women thought it have been flying the helicopter. That is shady. I cannot recall any transportation disaster that has killed as many people as this where the pilot, captain, driver, etc. name isn’t released

Trump prematurely blamed the pilot during a national press conference. He needs to learn to keep his mouth shut. He is the reason her name hasn’t been released. He is the reason that her family will probably be terrorized.

Anyone who has seen the video can come to that conclusion.

Actually, half the people on this thread were talking about ATC. Some people are still talking about a "perfect storm" like there is blame to go around. Really, the thread shifted dramatically to blame the helicopter exclusively only once it was known that the pilot was a woman. So, please don't act like everyone is judging based on evidence.

Also, reasonable people who assume that helo is at fault do not single out the pilot. We have all heard the male voice talking to ATC. There is every reason to assume he is part of the fatal error. There is the soldier in the back, who we have been told has a significant role - he has a part, too. If it was a training flight, then a person supervising must take on the ultimate responsibility. In no way, is it obvious to me that this is one pilot's responsibility. Moreover, what about the military, who several people on this thread with connections, have said disregard non-military protocol, flout non-military authority, and casually make up their own rules... what about them?? If that is indeed the culture, and helos routinely fly at 400ft altitude right next to National, then of course the military shares in the blame, too. Maybe the lion's share. And what about the "VIP" culture of flying to avoid ground traffic? If it turns out that that is part of the story, of course that is part of the problem, too! And even in this situation, I don't put the blame directly on the VIP, but on the people who allow it and approve the practice.

No matter what the situation is, though, a person with any leadership skills (much less an ounce of human decency) doesn't say what Trump said right after the accident. Once again, he has shown himself to be thoroughly unpresidential.

Yes and nobody is hiding the names of the other people on the helicopter. Just the one. Reasonable people can also conclude that is odd.

Look, I disagree with hiding the name. And I also think it is making everything worse. But there are pretty obvious, not suspicious reasons why they are doing so, including the totally reasonable fear of vigilante street justice.

The family is withholding the name. They have a right to grieve without maga dragging their loved one for being a woman. They are likely scared based on what is happening right in front of our faces.

Scared of what? Words and perception?

You’ve never seen loud angry people yelling at innocents in a scary, in-your-face way? Have you ever seen news footage of families entering a court room in a contentious case for example? Have you ever read about the way the Sandy Hook families were treated? Stop playing dumb.

But the concern is over "dragging" which is ridiculous. Who is calling for violence against the family? Nobody. This is all to avoid a hard conversation, or "dragging" which does not make the Army look very good here.

If I’m the family, my concern is I don’t want these crazies yelling at me on my front yard or confronting me in the grocery store.

There is zero evidence that anyone wants to go after the family, just in your persecuted mind. That is not a valid excuse anyway.

What planet have you been living on?
I want to go there

And it's their loved one. they don't need give you a valid excuse, ghoul

Did the American Airlines crew and passengers get the same options?

The AA crew abs passengers were not at fault here. It’s like being stopped at a red light and getting t-boned.

You have no idea what happened. Stop speculating.

There is no speculation, it’s obvious the AA plane wasn’t acting abnormally or flying erratically.

+1 and also because the helicopter requested and received visual separation from ATC, they had taken responsibility for avoiding the plane. This automatically creates a presumption of culpability for the helicopter that does not exist for the airplane (which, it is likely, did not even know the helicopter was there -- the airplane pilots could not hear ATC's exchanges with the helicopter because they were on a different frequency, and we don't hear ATC give any warning to the plane that the helicopter might cross its path).

There are larger question here about whether helicopters should be in that airspace or whether a single ATC should have been charged with communicating with both the plane and the helicopter. There are also questions about where improvements to warning systems could be made that might have enabled the plane's system and the helicopter's system to communicate and alert both crews to a potential collision. And then even larger questions about the amount of traffic at National in general (plane and helicopter) and choices made by policymakers and lawmakers months or years before.

But in the moment when this collision appeared, the only entity that had both the knowledge and the ability to prevent the collision was the helicopter. That's all we know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who has been involved in accident investigations, I prefer that the crewmember information NOT be released at this stage. It should be anonymized during the course of the investigation, so as to avoid any risk of subconscious bias (or even the appearance of such). Let the investigation go where the data leads. Once a probable cause has been determined, IF there is reason to suspect that the skills, training or experience of the personnel were a factor, THEN proceed to examine their records to determine where those factors fell short.

The only reason to examine records at this point, before anyone has a full picture of what happened, is to scapegoat the least experienced member of the team. (And btw, it's not always the least experienced person who actually made the mistake! Another good reason to wait for the investigation to conclude on the evidence before jumping to blame any individual.)

That sounds reasonable. But that also isn’t how things are done here. The two other crew members’ names have been released. The American Airlines pilots’ names have been released. They are withholding one name. The name of the women thought it have been flying the helicopter. That is shady. I cannot recall any transportation disaster that has killed as many people as this where the pilot, captain, driver, etc. name isn’t released

Trump prematurely blamed the pilot during a national press conference. He needs to learn to keep his mouth shut. He is the reason her name hasn’t been released. He is the reason that her family will probably be terrorized.

Anyone who has seen the video can come to that conclusion.

Actually, half the people on this thread were talking about ATC. Some people are still talking about a "perfect storm" like there is blame to go around. Really, the thread shifted dramatically to blame the helicopter exclusively only once it was known that the pilot was a woman. So, please don't act like everyone is judging based on evidence.

Also, reasonable people who assume that helo is at fault do not single out the pilot. We have all heard the male voice talking to ATC. There is every reason to assume he is part of the fatal error. There is the soldier in the back, who we have been told has a significant role - he has a part, too. If it was a training flight, then a person supervising must take on the ultimate responsibility. In no way, is it obvious to me that this is one pilot's responsibility. Moreover, what about the military, who several people on this thread with connections, have said disregard non-military protocol, flout non-military authority, and casually make up their own rules... what about them?? If that is indeed the culture, and helos routinely fly at 400ft altitude right next to National, then of course the military shares in the blame, too. Maybe the lion's share. And what about the "VIP" culture of flying to avoid ground traffic? If it turns out that that is part of the story, of course that is part of the problem, too! And even in this situation, I don't put the blame directly on the VIP, but on the people who allow it and approve the practice.

No matter what the situation is, though, a person with any leadership skills (much less an ounce of human decency) doesn't say what Trump said right after the accident. Once again, he has shown himself to be thoroughly unpresidential.

Yes and nobody is hiding the names of the other people on the helicopter. Just the one. Reasonable people can also conclude that is odd.

Look, I disagree with hiding the name. And I also think it is making everything worse. But there are pretty obvious, not suspicious reasons why they are doing so, including the totally reasonable fear of vigilante street justice.

The family is withholding the name. They have a right to grieve without maga dragging their loved one for being a woman. They are likely scared based on what is happening right in front of our faces.

Scared of what? Words and perception?

You’ve never seen loud angry people yelling at innocents in a scary, in-your-face way? Have you ever seen news footage of families entering a court room in a contentious case for example? Have you ever read about the way the Sandy Hook families were treated? Stop playing dumb.

But the concern is over "dragging" which is ridiculous. Who is calling for violence against the family? Nobody. This is all to avoid a hard conversation, or "dragging" which does not make the Army look very good here.

If I’m the family, my concern is I don’t want these crazies yelling at me on my front yard or confronting me in the grocery store.

There is zero evidence that anyone wants to go after the family, just in your persecuted mind. That is not a valid excuse anyway.

What planet have you been living on?
I want to go there

And it's their loved one. they don't need give you a valid excuse, ghoul

Did the American Airlines crew and passengers get the same options?

The AA crew abs passengers were not at fault here. It’s like being stopped at a red light and getting t-boned.

You have no idea what happened. Stop speculating.

There is no speculation, it’s obvious the AA plane wasn’t acting abnormally or flying erratically.

You don’t know “It’s like being stopped at a red light and getting t-boned.”

You don’t know what it was like. You don’t have all of the facts/evidence. You aren’t an experienced investigator. You are just an internet rando spewing BS.

Well, seeing as how AA was holding got landing when they got hit, sure seems like it was.

You don’t have the facts or experience. You are spewing BS.

Stop speculating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who has been involved in accident investigations, I prefer that the crewmember information NOT be released at this stage. It should be anonymized during the course of the investigation, so as to avoid any risk of subconscious bias (or even the appearance of such). Let the investigation go where the data leads. Once a probable cause has been determined, IF there is reason to suspect that the skills, training or experience of the personnel were a factor, THEN proceed to examine their records to determine where those factors fell short.

The only reason to examine records at this point, before anyone has a full picture of what happened, is to scapegoat the least experienced member of the team. (And btw, it's not always the least experienced person who actually made the mistake! Another good reason to wait for the investigation to conclude on the evidence before jumping to blame any individual.)

That sounds reasonable. But that also isn’t how things are done here. The two other crew members’ names have been released. The American Airlines pilots’ names have been released. They are withholding one name. The name of the women thought it have been flying the helicopter. That is shady. I cannot recall any transportation disaster that has killed as many people as this where the pilot, captain, driver, etc. name isn’t released

Trump prematurely blamed the pilot during a national press conference. He needs to learn to keep his mouth shut. He is the reason her name hasn’t been released. He is the reason that her family will probably be terrorized.

Anyone who has seen the video can come to that conclusion.

Actually, half the people on this thread were talking about ATC. Some people are still talking about a "perfect storm" like there is blame to go around. Really, the thread shifted dramatically to blame the helicopter exclusively only once it was known that the pilot was a woman. So, please don't act like everyone is judging based on evidence.

Also, reasonable people who assume that helo is at fault do not single out the pilot. We have all heard the male voice talking to ATC. There is every reason to assume he is part of the fatal error. There is the soldier in the back, who we have been told has a significant role - he has a part, too. If it was a training flight, then a person supervising must take on the ultimate responsibility. In no way, is it obvious to me that this is one pilot's responsibility. Moreover, what about the military, who several people on this thread with connections, have said disregard non-military protocol, flout non-military authority, and casually make up their own rules... what about them?? If that is indeed the culture, and helos routinely fly at 400ft altitude right next to National, then of course the military shares in the blame, too. Maybe the lion's share. And what about the "VIP" culture of flying to avoid ground traffic? If it turns out that that is part of the story, of course that is part of the problem, too! And even in this situation, I don't put the blame directly on the VIP, but on the people who allow it and approve the practice.

No matter what the situation is, though, a person with any leadership skills (much less an ounce of human decency) doesn't say what Trump said right after the accident. Once again, he has shown himself to be thoroughly unpresidential.

Yes and nobody is hiding the names of the other people on the helicopter. Just the one. Reasonable people can also conclude that is odd.

Look, I disagree with hiding the name. And I also think it is making everything worse. But there are pretty obvious, not suspicious reasons why they are doing so, including the totally reasonable fear of vigilante street justice.

The family is withholding the name. They have a right to grieve without maga dragging their loved one for being a woman. They are likely scared based on what is happening right in front of our faces.

Scared of what? Words and perception?

You’ve never seen loud angry people yelling at innocents in a scary, in-your-face way? Have you ever seen news footage of families entering a court room in a contentious case for example? Have you ever read about the way the Sandy Hook families were treated? Stop playing dumb.

But the concern is over "dragging" which is ridiculous. Who is calling for violence against the family? Nobody. This is all to avoid a hard conversation, or "dragging" which does not make the Army look very good here.

If I’m the family, my concern is I don’t want these crazies yelling at me on my front yard or confronting me in the grocery store.

There is zero evidence that anyone wants to go after the family, just in your persecuted mind. That is not a valid excuse anyway.

What planet have you been living on?
I want to go there

And it's their loved one. they don't need give you a valid excuse, ghoul

Did the American Airlines crew and passengers get the same options?

The AA crew abs passengers were not at fault here. It’s like being stopped at a red light and getting t-boned.

You have no idea what happened. Stop speculating.

There is no speculation, it’s obvious the AA plane wasn’t acting abnormally or flying erratically.

You don’t know “It’s like being stopped at a red light and getting t-boned.”

You don’t know what it was like. You don’t have all of the facts/evidence. You aren’t an experienced investigator. You are just an internet rando spewing BS.

Well, seeing as how AA was holding got landing when they got hit, sure seems like it was.

You don’t have the facts or experience. You are spewing BS.

Stop speculating.

If you don’t like speculation, DCUM isn’t for you. That’s all we do here. That and judge. Welcome aboard!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who has been involved in accident investigations, I prefer that the crewmember information NOT be released at this stage. It should be anonymized during the course of the investigation, so as to avoid any risk of subconscious bias (or even the appearance of such). Let the investigation go where the data leads. Once a probable cause has been determined, IF there is reason to suspect that the skills, training or experience of the personnel were a factor, THEN proceed to examine their records to determine where those factors fell short.

The only reason to examine records at this point, before anyone has a full picture of what happened, is to scapegoat the least experienced member of the team. (And btw, it's not always the least experienced person who actually made the mistake! Another good reason to wait for the investigation to conclude on the evidence before jumping to blame any individual.)

That sounds reasonable. But that also isn’t how things are done here. The two other crew members’ names have been released. The American Airlines pilots’ names have been released. They are withholding one name. The name of the women thought it have been flying the helicopter. That is shady. I cannot recall any transportation disaster that has killed as many people as this where the pilot, captain, driver, etc. name isn’t released

Trump prematurely blamed the pilot during a national press conference. He needs to learn to keep his mouth shut. He is the reason her name hasn’t been released. He is the reason that her family will probably be terrorized.

Anyone who has seen the video can come to that conclusion.

Actually, half the people on this thread were talking about ATC. Some people are still talking about a "perfect storm" like there is blame to go around. Really, the thread shifted dramatically to blame the helicopter exclusively only once it was known that the pilot was a woman. So, please don't act like everyone is judging based on evidence.

Also, reasonable people who assume that helo is at fault do not single out the pilot. We have all heard the male voice talking to ATC. There is every reason to assume he is part of the fatal error. There is the soldier in the back, who we have been told has a significant role - he has a part, too. If it was a training flight, then a person supervising must take on the ultimate responsibility. In no way, is it obvious to me that this is one pilot's responsibility. Moreover, what about the military, who several people on this thread with connections, have said disregard non-military protocol, flout non-military authority, and casually make up their own rules... what about them?? If that is indeed the culture, and helos routinely fly at 400ft altitude right next to National, then of course the military shares in the blame, too. Maybe the lion's share. And what about the "VIP" culture of flying to avoid ground traffic? If it turns out that that is part of the story, of course that is part of the problem, too! And even in this situation, I don't put the blame directly on the VIP, but on the people who allow it and approve the practice.

No matter what the situation is, though, a person with any leadership skills (much less an ounce of human decency) doesn't say what Trump said right after the accident. Once again, he has shown himself to be thoroughly unpresidential.

Yes and nobody is hiding the names of the other people on the helicopter. Just the one. Reasonable people can also conclude that is odd.

Look, I disagree with hiding the name. And I also think it is making everything worse. But there are pretty obvious, not suspicious reasons why they are doing so, including the totally reasonable fear of vigilante street justice.

The family is withholding the name. They have a right to grieve without maga dragging their loved one for being a woman. They are likely scared based on what is happening right in front of our faces.

Scared of what? Words and perception?

You’ve never seen loud angry people yelling at innocents in a scary, in-your-face way? Have you ever seen news footage of families entering a court room in a contentious case for example? Have you ever read about the way the Sandy Hook families were treated? Stop playing dumb.

But the concern is over "dragging" which is ridiculous. Who is calling for violence against the family? Nobody. This is all to avoid a hard conversation, or "dragging" which does not make the Army look very good here.

If I’m the family, my concern is I don’t want these crazies yelling at me on my front yard or confronting me in the grocery store.

There is zero evidence that anyone wants to go after the family, just in your persecuted mind. That is not a valid excuse anyway.

What planet have you been living on?
I want to go there

And it's their loved one. they don't need give you a valid excuse, ghoul

Did the American Airlines crew and passengers get the same options?

The AA crew abs passengers were not at fault here. It’s like being stopped at a red light and getting t-boned.

You have no idea what happened. Stop speculating.

There is no speculation, it’s obvious the AA plane wasn’t acting abnormally or flying erratically.

You don’t know “It’s like being stopped at a red light and getting t-boned.”

You don’t know what it was like. You don’t have all of the facts/evidence. You aren’t an experienced investigator. You are just an internet rando spewing BS.

Well, seeing as how AA was holding got landing when they got hit, sure seems like it was.

You don’t have the facts or experience. You are spewing BS.

Stop speculating.

The posters you're talking to are providing basic facts. Why are you so invested in denying them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So they've finally announced that a black box has been recovered from the helicopter. Previously they'd only mentioned the two black boxes from the AA plane.

I'm relieved to hear both that one exists from the helicopter and that the military is acknowledging its existence, which increases the odds that we will actually learn what is on it.

Why do YOU need to learn what was on it? So you can commence with your armchair sleuthing? What do you bring to the table? What are your qualifications?

WE get to know what’s on it because WE fly out of that damn airport all the time and WE live below it’s flight path so WE get to demand transparency and accurate information so we can trust that this won’t happen again.

No, you aren’t entitled to anything. Chill TF out.

DP but the public is entitled to know what happened in this incident. It's a public safety issue.

I don't support "armchair sleuthing" but all anyone asked for here is that the information be released to the public. That's a reasonable expectation and it's weird to yell at people for simply wanting the info to come out eventually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who has been involved in accident investigations, I prefer that the crewmember information NOT be released at this stage. It should be anonymized during the course of the investigation, so as to avoid any risk of subconscious bias (or even the appearance of such). Let the investigation go where the data leads. Once a probable cause has been determined, IF there is reason to suspect that the skills, training or experience of the personnel were a factor, THEN proceed to examine their records to determine where those factors fell short.

The only reason to examine records at this point, before anyone has a full picture of what happened, is to scapegoat the least experienced member of the team. (And btw, it's not always the least experienced person who actually made the mistake! Another good reason to wait for the investigation to conclude on the evidence before jumping to blame any individual.)

That sounds reasonable. But that also isn’t how things are done here. The two other crew members’ names have been released. The American Airlines pilots’ names have been released. They are withholding one name. The name of the women thought it have been flying the helicopter. That is shady. I cannot recall any transportation disaster that has killed as many people as this where the pilot, captain, driver, etc. name isn’t released

Trump prematurely blamed the pilot during a national press conference. He needs to learn to keep his mouth shut. He is the reason her name hasn’t been released. He is the reason that her family will probably be terrorized.

Anyone who has seen the video can come to that conclusion.

Actually, half the people on this thread were talking about ATC. Some people are still talking about a "perfect storm" like there is blame to go around. Really, the thread shifted dramatically to blame the helicopter exclusively only once it was known that the pilot was a woman. So, please don't act like everyone is judging based on evidence.

Also, reasonable people who assume that helo is at fault do not single out the pilot. We have all heard the male voice talking to ATC. There is every reason to assume he is part of the fatal error. There is the soldier in the back, who we have been told has a significant role - he has a part, too. If it was a training flight, then a person supervising must take on the ultimate responsibility. In no way, is it obvious to me that this is one pilot's responsibility. Moreover, what about the military, who several people on this thread with connections, have said disregard non-military protocol, flout non-military authority, and casually make up their own rules... what about them?? If that is indeed the culture, and helos routinely fly at 400ft altitude right next to National, then of course the military shares in the blame, too. Maybe the lion's share. And what about the "VIP" culture of flying to avoid ground traffic? If it turns out that that is part of the story, of course that is part of the problem, too! And even in this situation, I don't put the blame directly on the VIP, but on the people who allow it and approve the practice.

No matter what the situation is, though, a person with any leadership skills (much less an ounce of human decency) doesn't say what Trump said right after the accident. Once again, he has shown himself to be thoroughly unpresidential.

Yes and nobody is hiding the names of the other people on the helicopter. Just the one. Reasonable people can also conclude that is odd.

Look, I disagree with hiding the name. And I also think it is making everything worse. But there are pretty obvious, not suspicious reasons why they are doing so, including the totally reasonable fear of vigilante street justice.

The family is withholding the name. They have a right to grieve without maga dragging their loved one for being a woman. They are likely scared based on what is happening right in front of our faces.

Scared of what? Words and perception?

You’ve never seen loud angry people yelling at innocents in a scary, in-your-face way? Have you ever seen news footage of families entering a court room in a contentious case for example? Have you ever read about the way the Sandy Hook families were treated? Stop playing dumb.

But the concern is over "dragging" which is ridiculous. Who is calling for violence against the family? Nobody. This is all to avoid a hard conversation, or "dragging" which does not make the Army look very good here.

If I’m the family, my concern is I don’t want these crazies yelling at me on my front yard or confronting me in the grocery store.

There is zero evidence that anyone wants to go after the family, just in your persecuted mind. That is not a valid excuse anyway.

What planet have you been living on?
I want to go there

And it's their loved one. they don't need give you a valid excuse, ghoul

Did the American Airlines crew and passengers get the same options?

The AA crew abs passengers were not at fault here. It’s like being stopped at a red light and getting t-boned.

You have no idea what happened. Stop speculating.

There is no speculation, it’s obvious the AA plane wasn’t acting abnormally or flying erratically.

You don’t know “It’s like being stopped at a red light and getting t-boned.”

You don’t know what it was like. You don’t have all of the facts/evidence. You aren’t an experienced investigator. You are just an internet rando spewing BS.

Well, seeing as how AA was holding got landing when they got hit, sure seems like it was.

You don’t have the facts or experience. You are spewing BS.

Stop speculating.

If you don’t like speculation, DCUM isn’t for you. That’s all we do here. That and judge. Welcome aboard!

No, that’s not “all we do”. Go to Reddit if you want to be an idiot. Or did you get kicked off there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So they've finally announced that a black box has been recovered from the helicopter. Previously they'd only mentioned the two black boxes from the AA plane.

I'm relieved to hear both that one exists from the helicopter and that the military is acknowledging its existence, which increases the odds that we will actually learn what is on it.

Why do YOU need to learn what was on it? So you can commence with your armchair sleuthing? What do you bring to the table? What are your qualifications?

WE get to know what’s on it because WE fly out of that damn airport all the time and WE live below it’s flight path so WE get to demand transparency and accurate information so we can trust that this won’t happen again.

No, you aren’t entitled to anything. Chill TF out.

DP but the public is entitled to know what happened in this incident. It's a public safety issue.

I don't support "armchair sleuthing" but all anyone asked for here is that the information be released to the public. That's a reasonable expectation and it's weird to yell at people for simply wanting the info to come out eventually.

We will know. NTSB will release a preliminary report in 30 days and a final report in a year or so. SOP. You will just have to wait. Stay mad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who has been involved in accident investigations, I prefer that the crewmember information NOT be released at this stage. It should be anonymized during the course of the investigation, so as to avoid any risk of subconscious bias (or even the appearance of such). Let the investigation go where the data leads. Once a probable cause has been determined, IF there is reason to suspect that the skills, training or experience of the personnel were a factor, THEN proceed to examine their records to determine where those factors fell short.

The only reason to examine records at this point, before anyone has a full picture of what happened, is to scapegoat the least experienced member of the team. (And btw, it's not always the least experienced person who actually made the mistake! Another good reason to wait for the investigation to conclude on the evidence before jumping to blame any individual.)

That sounds reasonable. But that also isn’t how things are done here. The two other crew members’ names have been released. The American Airlines pilots’ names have been released. They are withholding one name. The name of the women thought it have been flying the helicopter. That is shady. I cannot recall any transportation disaster that has killed as many people as this where the pilot, captain, driver, etc. name isn’t released

Trump prematurely blamed the pilot during a national press conference. He needs to learn to keep his mouth shut. He is the reason her name hasn’t been released. He is the reason that her family will probably be terrorized.

Anyone who has seen the video can come to that conclusion.

Actually, half the people on this thread were talking about ATC. Some people are still talking about a "perfect storm" like there is blame to go around. Really, the thread shifted dramatically to blame the helicopter exclusively only once it was known that the pilot was a woman. So, please don't act like everyone is judging based on evidence.

Also, reasonable people who assume that helo is at fault do not single out the pilot. We have all heard the male voice talking to ATC. There is every reason to assume he is part of the fatal error. There is the soldier in the back, who we have been told has a significant role - he has a part, too. If it was a training flight, then a person supervising must take on the ultimate responsibility. In no way, is it obvious to me that this is one pilot's responsibility. Moreover, what about the military, who several people on this thread with connections, have said disregard non-military protocol, flout non-military authority, and casually make up their own rules... what about them?? If that is indeed the culture, and helos routinely fly at 400ft altitude right next to National, then of course the military shares in the blame, too. Maybe the lion's share. And what about the "VIP" culture of flying to avoid ground traffic? If it turns out that that is part of the story, of course that is part of the problem, too! And even in this situation, I don't put the blame directly on the VIP, but on the people who allow it and approve the practice.

No matter what the situation is, though, a person with any leadership skills (much less an ounce of human decency) doesn't say what Trump said right after the accident. Once again, he has shown himself to be thoroughly unpresidential.

Yes and nobody is hiding the names of the other people on the helicopter. Just the one. Reasonable people can also conclude that is odd.

Look, I disagree with hiding the name. And I also think it is making everything worse. But there are pretty obvious, not suspicious reasons why they are doing so, including the totally reasonable fear of vigilante street justice.

The family is withholding the name. They have a right to grieve without maga dragging their loved one for being a woman. They are likely scared based on what is happening right in front of our faces.

Scared of what? Words and perception?

You’ve never seen loud angry people yelling at innocents in a scary, in-your-face way? Have you ever seen news footage of families entering a court room in a contentious case for example? Have you ever read about the way the Sandy Hook families were treated? Stop playing dumb.

But the concern is over "dragging" which is ridiculous. Who is calling for violence against the family? Nobody. This is all to avoid a hard conversation, or "dragging" which does not make the Army look very good here.

If I’m the family, my concern is I don’t want these crazies yelling at me on my front yard or confronting me in the grocery store.

There is zero evidence that anyone wants to go after the family, just in your persecuted mind. That is not a valid excuse anyway.

What planet have you been living on?
I want to go there

And it's their loved one. they don't need give you a valid excuse, ghoul

Did the American Airlines crew and passengers get the same options?

The AA crew abs passengers were not at fault here. It’s like being stopped at a red light and getting t-boned.

You have no idea what happened. Stop speculating.

There is no speculation, it’s obvious the AA plane wasn’t acting abnormally or flying erratically.

You don’t know “It’s like being stopped at a red light and getting t-boned.”

You don’t know what it was like. You don’t have all of the facts/evidence. You aren’t an experienced investigator. You are just an internet rando spewing BS.

Well, seeing as how AA was holding got landing when they got hit, sure seems like it was.

You don’t have the facts or experience. You are spewing BS.

Stop speculating.

If you don’t like speculation, DCUM isn’t for you. That’s all we do here. That and judge. Welcome aboard!

No, that’s not “all we do”. Go to Reddit if you want to be an idiot. Or did you get kicked off there.

I’ve never posted on Reddit in my life and I’ve been on DCUM 18 years. You aren’t in charge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So they've finally announced that a black box has been recovered from the helicopter. Previously they'd only mentioned the two black boxes from the AA plane.

I'm relieved to hear both that one exists from the helicopter and that the military is acknowledging its existence, which increases the odds that we will actually learn what is on it.

Why do YOU need to learn what was on it? So you can commence with your armchair sleuthing? What do you bring to the table? What are your qualifications?

WE get to know what’s on it because WE fly out of that damn airport all the time and WE live below it’s flight path so WE get to demand transparency and accurate information so we can trust that this won’t happen again.

No, you aren’t entitled to anything. Chill TF out.

DP but the public is entitled to know what happened in this incident. It's a public safety issue.

I don't support "armchair sleuthing" but all anyone asked for here is that the information be released to the public. That's a reasonable expectation and it's weird to yell at people for simply wanting the info to come out eventually.

It will come out eventually. Why are people demanding it yesterday? Having that info will not impact your life in any way.

Chill TF out. Stop trying to trash the pilot.

[Anonymous]

Please someone who is leaning toward this all being the fault of the anon supposed “DEI” pilot how would it not also be the fault of her co-pilot who can be heard confirming to ATC that they had the AA flight in sight?

I’m not meaning to blame the co-pilot either, we just don’t know and it could have been a medical emergency etc. But if it’s entirely human error it’s clear that there are multiple humans who made errors!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who has been involved in accident investigations, I prefer that the crewmember information NOT be released at this stage. It should be anonymized during the course of the investigation, so as to avoid any risk of subconscious bias (or even the appearance of such). Let the investigation go where the data leads. Once a probable cause has been determined, IF there is reason to suspect that the skills, training or experience of the personnel were a factor, THEN proceed to examine their records to determine where those factors fell short.

The only reason to examine records at this point, before anyone has a full picture of what happened, is to scapegoat the least experienced member of the team. (And btw, it's not always the least experienced person who actually made the mistake! Another good reason to wait for the investigation to conclude on the evidence before jumping to blame any individual.)

That sounds reasonable. But that also isn’t how things are done here. The two other crew members’ names have been released. The American Airlines pilots’ names have been released. They are withholding one name. The name of the women thought it have been flying the helicopter. That is shady. I cannot recall any transportation disaster that has killed as many people as this where the pilot, captain, driver, etc. name isn’t released

Trump prematurely blamed the pilot during a national press conference. He needs to learn to keep his mouth shut. He is the reason her name hasn’t been released. He is the reason that her family will probably be terrorized.

Anyone who has seen the video can come to that conclusion.

Actually, half the people on this thread were talking about ATC. Some people are still talking about a "perfect storm" like there is blame to go around. Really, the thread shifted dramatically to blame the helicopter exclusively only once it was known that the pilot was a woman. So, please don't act like everyone is judging based on evidence.

Also, reasonable people who assume that helo is at fault do not single out the pilot. We have all heard the male voice talking to ATC. There is every reason to assume he is part of the fatal error. There is the soldier in the back, who we have been told has a significant role - he has a part, too. If it was a training flight, then a person supervising must take on the ultimate responsibility. In no way, is it obvious to me that this is one pilot's responsibility. Moreover, what about the military, who several people on this thread with connections, have said disregard non-military protocol, flout non-military authority, and casually make up their own rules... what about them?? If that is indeed the culture, and helos routinely fly at 400ft altitude right next to National, then of course the military shares in the blame, too. Maybe the lion's share. And what about the "VIP" culture of flying to avoid ground traffic? If it turns out that that is part of the story, of course that is part of the problem, too! And even in this situation, I don't put the blame directly on the VIP, but on the people who allow it and approve the practice.

No matter what the situation is, though, a person with any leadership skills (much less an ounce of human decency) doesn't say what Trump said right after the accident. Once again, he has shown himself to be thoroughly unpresidential.

Yes and nobody is hiding the names of the other people on the helicopter. Just the one. Reasonable people can also conclude that is odd.

Look, I disagree with hiding the name. And I also think it is making everything worse. But there are pretty obvious, not suspicious reasons why they are doing so, including the totally reasonable fear of vigilante street justice.

The family is withholding the name. They have a right to grieve without maga dragging their loved one for being a woman. They are likely scared based on what is happening right in front of our faces.

Scared of what? Words and perception?

You’ve never seen loud angry people yelling at innocents in a scary, in-your-face way? Have you ever seen news footage of families entering a court room in a contentious case for example? Have you ever read about the way the Sandy Hook families were treated? Stop playing dumb.

But the concern is over "dragging" which is ridiculous. Who is calling for violence against the family? Nobody. This is all to avoid a hard conversation, or "dragging" which does not make the Army look very good here.

If I’m the family, my concern is I don’t want these crazies yelling at me on my front yard or confronting me in the grocery store.

There is zero evidence that anyone wants to go after the family, just in your persecuted mind. That is not a valid excuse anyway.

What planet have you been living on?
I want to go there

And it's their loved one. they don't need give you a valid excuse, ghoul

Did the American Airlines crew and passengers get the same options?

The AA crew abs passengers were not at fault here. It’s like being stopped at a red light and getting t-boned.

You have no idea what happened. Stop speculating.

There is no speculation, it’s obvious the AA plane wasn’t acting abnormally or flying erratically.

You don’t know “It’s like being stopped at a red light and getting t-boned.”

You don’t know what it was like. You don’t have all of the facts/evidence. You aren’t an experienced investigator. You are just an internet rando spewing BS.

Well, seeing as how AA was holding got landing when they got hit, sure seems like it was.

You don’t have the facts or experience. You are spewing BS.

Stop speculating.

The posters you're talking to are providing basic facts. Why are you so invested in denying them?

They clearly have no idea what they are talking about and they don’t have relevant facts.

That’s not denying them anything. Just acknowledging reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please someone who is leaning toward this all being the fault of the anon supposed “DEI” pilot how would it not also be the fault of her co-pilot who can be heard confirming to ATC that they had the AA flight in sight?

I’m not meaning to blame the co-pilot either, we just don’t know and it could have been a medical emergency etc. But if it’s entirely human error it’s clear that there are multiple humans who made errors!

Yes and one family thinks there should be no consequences. The others did the right thing. Withholding the information just makes it look worse.

Consequences? What consequences? They are all dead! How do you intend to punish them further?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So they've finally announced that a black box has been recovered from the helicopter. Previously they'd only mentioned the two black boxes from the AA plane.

I'm relieved to hear both that one exists from the helicopter and that the military is acknowledging its existence, which increases the odds that we will actually learn what is on it.

Why do YOU need to learn what was on it? So you can commence with your armchair sleuthing? What do you bring to the table? What are your qualifications?

WE get to know what’s on it because WE fly out of that damn airport all the time and WE live below it’s flight path so WE get to demand transparency and accurate information so we can trust that this won’t happen again.

No, you aren’t entitled to anything. Chill TF out.

DP but the public is entitled to know what happened in this incident. It's a public safety issue.

I don't support "armchair sleuthing" but all anyone asked for here is that the information be released to the public. That's a reasonable expectation and it's weird to yell at people for simply wanting the info to come out eventually.

We will know. NTSB will release a preliminary report in 30 days and a final report in a year or so. SOP. You will just have to wait. Stay mad.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those images are green phosphorus NVGs. They use white phosphorus now. And even still in the second image it would be easy to “lose” a very low flying aircraft.

The reason everyone in the helicopter has a “job” to do..