Do you think we will see a massive uptick in women choosing to stay home after this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I notice in these arguments is for all the SAHMs to say something like: "I tried working after kids but it wasn't for me and this set up works better for our family. I'm happy with it and I don't care what other people do."

And then there are a few working moms who can NOT let this go and have to INSIST that these women only see their husbands as paychecks, that the husbands themselves are totally miserable (have you not met any ambitious alpha types btw? They're all over the place and they'd be miserable if they weren't working and competing in some way), that they have no lives, never travel, never do fun stuff, never go out for girls' nights or girls' weekends, have nothing to talk about, kids are being stunted, etc. etc.

And then a bunch of SAHMs and even some working moms will come in saying, "uh, that's not really what I see" but they just won't let it drop.

That's the kind of behavior that makes me think these working moms (like the engineer who keeps engaging) is really jealous. Not of being a SAHM. That's important to note. But of the money their husbands usually make.

In the DC area, SAHMs tend to be really rich. Like, with HHIs way over 750k and net worth of several million. Multiple kids are in private school, lots of household help, they have second homes, they take amazing vacations, the whole nine yards. That's my reality. That's what I see in my neighborhood and community. The women themselves are usually Ivy educated or similar and had impressive careers before having kids, which they could have continued with had they wanted to. So to say these women have no choice in the matter is ridiculous. They have all the flexibility they desire. This lifestyle of luxury and ease is what they actively selected our of an array of choices.

I am not a SAHM by the way, nor are we rich like that. But my sister is and a lot of her/our mutual friends. This is what I see. To feel sorry for these women is laughable. It really is. It's literally feeling sorry for the 1%. Joke's on you.

I know ONE SAHM like the ones you're describing. And I do feel sorry for her because even her car (not to mention her house) isn't in her name. She flies on private jets for vacations, but they're not the vacations she chooses. Everyone is going to be impacted by the environment in which they're in. So you have a sample size of certain SAHMs and other people have different ones that impact their opinions. For you to act like all SAHMs are the ones you describe is just as myopic as the people you're complaining about.

The point is that these kinds of SAHMs are way more common in major cities including DC, NYC, SF, LA. Where people are likely to be posting from.

No one on here gives a shit what people in the Midwest or...Ashburn do or think.

I don't live in the Midwest or in Ashburn, thanks. I live in one of the cities you listed. Your post is so obnoxious and rude.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know any SAHM who volunteer. I also know very, very, very few women who quit to SAHM and then returned as lawyers to my mid sized firm, as an example, a very family friendly one. Out of 10 women, none came back. Just a small cohort.

Look, the reality is, if you have never worked since you have had kids, you have no idea what it is like. If you have not worked with school age kids with numerous activities, you have NO idea what it is like. Just stop this. If you're not working full time right now while home schooling and being a housekeeper, freaking mazeltov to you. No prize for the OMGBESTJOBBUTHARDESTJOBLOVETHESEKIDSTOOMUCHTOOLEAVEEMAMIRITE right now. Stop needing so much validation.

THIS

Also, I don't know any SAHMs who quit and went back to work. None.

Really?? Almost all my SAHM friends went back to work at least part time after their youngest hit K or first grade.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Honest Q, if you are a working mom, do you feel superior to SAHM moms? It's just something I have always wondered.

Since this is anonymous, yes I do. I would never tell you to your face though.

NP, and no, I don't. In this specific, current situation, I think I have it much harder than they do, but that doesn't make me superior to them. Grumpier, perhaps. On balance, I think there are enough trade-offs either way to make them relatively equally difficult. I guess if you're independently wealth SAH is an easier option, but that's not many people.

Do you think it might be much harder because you aren't as used to be around you kids for that many hours a day? Aside from the actual working part? It can be a little shocking if you aren't used to being around children for 12+ hours a day weeks on end.

NP. This is incredibly condescending. I work full-time, as does my husband, but it’s not the being around my kids all day that’s hard, it’s having them around plus having to work at the same time. I mean, we both take liberal leave during the year and spend time together as a family all day. And also weekends. And many school holidays we’ll take off. Also, we’re fortunate enough that our kids are in school or at an activity right after school pretty much the whole time we’re working, so it’s not like we don’t see our kids during the week. Your attitude is a reason why people hate SAHMs.

It’s not meant to be condescending. I have noticed too many WOH saying “This is so much harder for me! If I didn’t work this would be so easy. You don’t understand the demands of a career” I’m talking about moms with young children. (5 and under with hardly any independent that cannot be left unsupervised). It’s hard for everyone right now. It is also exhausting being around small children for that long for weeks on end whether you choose it or not and for many it might be the first time outside of maternity leave they have experienced this long of a stretch. I know exactly how stressful a career can be too, I did that for 13 years after grad school and worked since I was 15 and I will in a few years at all when my son is in kindergarten. It doesn’t have to be a competition over who has it harder and who is superior. If you’re a decent mom you made a conscious decision over what made the most sense for your specific family.

I'm the PP you were responding to earlier, not this one.

Here's the thing: if you have not balanced a career with kids, i.e., worked while you had kids, you have no idea what the specific challenges are. Working before you have kids is not even remotely the same as working once you have them. I'm not even talking about right now in COVID-19 time, I'm talking generally.

As for COVID-19 time, your argument that it's not harder for mothers who have to work *on top of* all the the other things SAHM are doing is ludicrous. That you can't appreciate that you do, in fact, have it easier right now, is what pisses me and many other working moms off. We're not talking about the demands of a career, we're talking about the demands of working full-time WHILE we ALSO have to parent kids at home. If you can't get that, that's on you, not us.

(I don't have anything against SAHM, either. Many of my neighbors do, and I know it's not easy for them right now. But to a one, they have acknowledged that they are grateful they are home and not also having to work right now. That earns my everlasting gratitude because they Get It.)

But you’re not doing all the thing SAHM’s are doing if you have childcare during the day when your kids are in daycare. It would be nice to have some acknowledgement, like “This is harder than I thought. It is a privilege being able to sit in quiet and have a cup of coffee in the office while the kids are being supervised at daycare.” You also don’t realize many SAHM’s have board positions on non profits and volunteer commitments that they give significant time to, comparable to a part time job and often juggle that with kids at home. So when some engineer comes in here and calls my contribution to society worthless when I raised more than her salary in fundraising last year, I can only shake my head at people who cannot see that there lies a lot of grey in between the black and white. I have no doubt it’s harder for you right now. But it’s also probably more challenging than you thought to be around your kids this much with zero breaks.

Which one is it, PP? Is it that SAHMs are around their kids with zero breaks or that they're board members who volunteer all the time? You can't have it both ways. And I'm not the PP you're responding to, but I'll repeat this for you since you seem to have a hard time understanding. What is not hard is being around our kids with zero breaks. What is hard is working full-time while doing that. You just sound ridiculous.

Both, they juggle volunteer commitments with their kids at home most of the week.

Hilarious

I don’t know any sahms that volunteer.

Do you know many? Hi. I am a SAHM and I volunteer. So now you know one! Almost all my SAHM friends do as well.

This must just be your circle of friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Separate and apart from the contentious turn taken in the past few pages, I’m a mom with a very demanding job and this COVID quarantine has made me want to work from home and spend more time with my kids. I won’t be quitting my job, but I have already decided that I won’t be aiming for a big promotion that requires more travel and time away from my kids.

Me too, PP. I think it's a little sad that what started out as a thread to talk about the bittersweet experiences of this extra time with our kids has turned into the usual SAHM vs WOHM brawl. I won't be quitting either but it really does put some things into perspective.

I think it will be a long long time before any full time job requires a lot of travel. Clients and colleagues will be more than happy to "meet" with you via zoom or phone calls for a long long time. I think this experience will have a lasting effect.

[Anonymous]

Hi - I'm a WOHM and I volunteer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi - I'm a WOHM and I volunteer.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi - I'm a WOHM and I volunteer.

What's your point? I don't know anyone who posted that she didn't know a WOHM that volunteered.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OMG I'm DYING at someone thinking they are superior to me because they make 210k.

Oh honey. Talk about having a small life! You don't even know that is not a lot of money.

I feel sad for her.

Ok I wouldn't have said it like this because it's mean but yes. I cringed at that too.

Hi, I’m the pp you’re referring to!

I never said it was the money that makes me superior. I just can’t imagine feeling fulfilled in life doing...well nothing. I’m sure you get to travel and shop but you are kind of worthless (in my view).

Again I would never say this to your face.

I’m cringing for you.

+ 1

I guess we see how she rates her children though! It's "worthless" to spend time with them!

I agree, but I also have pity for her. I find a lot of ppl in this area (men and women) who define themselves by their jobs. It is the one thing I hate about this area. I grew up on the W Coast where people actually have conversations rather than asking what you do/who you know and losing all interest if you can’t help them somehow. It’s great to have a job that you love, but it’s just as bad to pin all your self worth on your career as it is on your kids. There has to be a balance and you have to be someone outside of work, ideally with a loving family and community involvement. And judging by the vitriol she’s spouting, I’m going to guess she doesn’t have that balance. Sad! I hope for her kids’ sake that they have other positive influences in their lives...

I don't know a single working mom who defines themselves by their job. Not one. And some of them have pretty major jobs. Talking about what you do doesn't mean you're defining someone's worth by their answer. It's an interesting way to learn about someone and about the things that they do that you might know nothing about. So you can be "sad" all you want for PP, but your negative attitude is equally as disgusting.

I don’t know a single SAHM that defines herself completely by her children. So the idea that she is a waste to society is a joke. If you think she has nothing to talk to her about ask her. Trust me, she likely has plenty of other interests, life stories, a former career, an education, places she has lived and traveled to, causes she is involved with...

Too bad she didn't put that education to use!

Most women stay at home for 5 years on average. You really think most wasted it because they took 5/50 of their working years off?

Please. Show me the stats that it's really only 5 years for "most" SAHMs. And for those that go back at the end of that 5 years, do they go into full time positions that are truly using their education? Or do they take part time, lean-out gigs that allow them to be there "for the kids." It's the latter for many. So mathematically, there's no way it's "5/50 of their working years."

40 percent return full time, 70 percent return in some form.

Many people transition in their careers, men and women, before retiring. Whether working full or part time, they are still using their education.

https://www.nbcnews.com/know-your-value/feature/rise-stay-home-working-mom-ncna987371

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:OMG I'm DYING at someone thinking they are superior to me because they make 210k.

Oh honey. Talk about having a small life! You don't even know that is not a lot of money.

I feel sad for her.

Ok I wouldn't have said it like this because it's mean but yes. I cringed at that too.

Hi, I’m the pp you’re referring to!

I never said it was the money that makes me superior. I just can’t imagine feeling fulfilled in life doing...well nothing. I’m sure you get to travel and shop but you are kind of worthless (in my view).

Again I would never say this to your face.

I’m cringing for you.

+ 1

I guess we see how she rates her children though! It's "worthless" to spend time with them!

I agree, but I also have pity for her. I find a lot of ppl in this area (men and women) who define themselves by their jobs. It is the one thing I hate about this area. I grew up on the W Coast where people actually have conversations rather than asking what you do/who you know and losing all interest if you can’t help them somehow. It’s great to have a job that you love, but it’s just as bad to pin all your self worth on your career as it is on your kids. There has to be a balance and you have to be someone outside of work, ideally with a loving family and community involvement. And judging by the vitriol she’s spouting, I’m going to guess she doesn’t have that balance. Sad! I hope for her kids’ sake that they have other positive influences in their lives...

I don't know a single working mom who defines themselves by their job. Not one. And some of them have pretty major jobs. Talking about what you do doesn't mean you're defining someone's worth by their answer. It's an interesting way to learn about someone and about the things that they do that you might know nothing about. So you can be "sad" all you want for PP, but your negative attitude is equally as disgusting.

I don’t know a single SAHM that defines herself completely by her children. So the idea that she is a waste to society is a joke. If you think she has nothing to talk to her about ask her. Trust me, she likely has plenty of other interests, life stories, a former career, an education, places she has lived and traveled to, causes she is involved with...

Opposite of what I’ve experienced. I find it hard to be friends with SAHMs because everything revolves around their children. They seem way less likely to want to do anything without children involved. They go on fewer date nights, don’t travel with friends, etc. I assume some of this is because they are living off one paycheck.

FWIW almost everything you listed above is in the PAST. The SAHM has a previous career, travelED places etc. That’s the problem. If you work and are friends with SAHMs, it’s easy to see how you’re moving forward in life and they aren’t. The SAHM gives up major parts of her life to stay at home with children. There are extremely wealthy women who still manage to maintain an identity, but these are not the norm.

I mean, sorry to be mean, but I would assume this is because you yourself are not rich. If you were, you'd move in a crowd where it's the norm for SAHMs to have full or part time help, private school for multiple children, date night once or even more a week, 4-5 vacations + a second home somewhere.

Agree. There are real class differences that account for these various experiences people are reporting. It's all apples and oranges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:OMG I'm DYING at someone thinking they are superior to me because they make 210k.

Oh honey. Talk about having a small life! You don't even know that is not a lot of money.

I feel sad for her.

Ok I wouldn't have said it like this because it's mean but yes. I cringed at that too.

Hi, I’m the pp you’re referring to!

I never said it was the money that makes me superior. I just can’t imagine feeling fulfilled in life doing...well nothing. I’m sure you get to travel and shop but you are kind of worthless (in my view).

Again I would never say this to your face.

I’m cringing for you.

+ 1

I guess we see how she rates her children though! It's "worthless" to spend time with them!

I agree, but I also have pity for her. I find a lot of ppl in this area (men and women) who define themselves by their jobs. It is the one thing I hate about this area. I grew up on the W Coast where people actually have conversations rather than asking what you do/who you know and losing all interest if you can’t help them somehow. It’s great to have a job that you love, but it’s just as bad to pin all your self worth on your career as it is on your kids. There has to be a balance and you have to be someone outside of work, ideally with a loving family and community involvement. And judging by the vitriol she’s spouting, I’m going to guess she doesn’t have that balance. Sad! I hope for her kids’ sake that they have other positive influences in their lives...

I don't know a single working mom who defines themselves by their job. Not one. And some of them have pretty major jobs. Talking about what you do doesn't mean you're defining someone's worth by their answer. It's an interesting way to learn about someone and about the things that they do that you might know nothing about. So you can be "sad" all you want for PP, but your negative attitude is equally as disgusting.

I don’t know a single SAHM that defines herself completely by her children. So the idea that she is a waste to society is a joke. If you think she has nothing to talk to her about ask her. Trust me, she likely has plenty of other interests, life stories, a former career, an education, places she has lived and traveled to, causes she is involved with...

Opposite of what I’ve experienced. I find it hard to be friends with SAHMs because everything revolves around their children. They seem way less likely to want to do anything without children involved. They go on fewer date nights, don’t travel with friends, etc. I assume some of this is because they are living off one paycheck.

FWIW almost everything you listed above is in the PAST. The SAHM has a previous career, travelED places etc. That’s the problem. If you work and are friends with SAHMs, it’s easy to see how you’re moving forward in life and they aren’t. The SAHM gives up major parts of her life to stay at home with children. There are extremely wealthy women who still manage to maintain an identity, but these are not the norm.

I mean, sorry to be mean, but I would assume this is because you yourself are not rich. If you were, you'd move in a crowd where it's the norm for SAHMs to have full or part time help, private school for multiple children, date night once or even more a week, 4-5 vacations + a second home somewhere.

Agree. There are real class differences that account for these various experiences people are reporting. It's all apples and oranges.

I disagree. I’m in the .05% and still find the SAHMs boring and solely focused on their children.

I highly doubt PP or many other posters here are so wealthy that they have private planes, send their kids to boarding school in Switzerland, etc. That kind of wealth is rarely seen in DC.

SAHMs hate to hear that even if they are wealthy they are boring and aren’t contributing to society, , but it’s the truth.

[Anonymous]

This might be my new favorite stupid DCUM mom-battle thread because in 5 pages it went from "what's better, SAHM or WOHM?" to "what's better, being a multimillionaire or a wage slave?"

Hmmm, let me think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Laughing at the insinuation that all sahms live a kardashian lifestyle. Puhlease ladies.

Right good lord. Such delusional morons.

We are a dual income 600 k plus family and we are not “wealthy” by any stretch. Almost all of the SAHMs I know in my community in Bethesda - and I have many sahm friends - didn’t earn enough for it to make sense for them to pay for child care. That’s true for 98% of the sahms posting on here, I have no doubt at all. Teachers, paralegals, HR people etc. Its not some moral high ground choice. Back walking it into one is so tiring and transparent. And if one more of you posts one of those “and just like that nobody ever asks a SAHM what they do all day ever again” just know we are all - all - rolling our eyes so hard. Do you do our jobs and homeschool too? No? So okay, not the same. Goodness. Nobody wants to fight about it just stop marrying yourself all over the place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG I'm DYING at someone thinking they are superior to me because they make 210k.

Oh honey. Talk about having a small life! You don't even know that is not a lot of money.

I feel sad for her.

Ok I wouldn't have said it like this because it's mean but yes. I cringed at that too.

Hi, I’m the pp you’re referring to!

I never said it was the money that makes me superior. I just can’t imagine feeling fulfilled in life doing...well nothing. I’m sure you get to travel and shop but you are kind of worthless (in my view).

Again I would never say this to your face.

I’m cringing for you.

+ 1

I guess we see how she rates her children though! It's "worthless" to spend time with them!

I agree, but I also have pity for her. I find a lot of ppl in this area (men and women) who define themselves by their jobs. It is the one thing I hate about this area. I grew up on the W Coast where people actually have conversations rather than asking what you do/who you know and losing all interest if you can’t help them somehow. It’s great to have a job that you love, but it’s just as bad to pin all your self worth on your career as it is on your kids. There has to be a balance and you have to be someone outside of work, ideally with a loving family and community involvement. And judging by the vitriol she’s spouting, I’m going to guess she doesn’t have that balance. Sad! I hope for her kids’ sake that they have other positive influences in their lives...

I don't know a single working mom who defines themselves by their job. Not one. And some of them have pretty major jobs. Talking about what you do doesn't mean you're defining someone's worth by their answer. It's an interesting way to learn about someone and about the things that they do that you might know nothing about. So you can be "sad" all you want for PP, but your negative attitude is equally as disgusting.

I don’t know a single SAHM that defines herself completely by her children. So the idea that she is a waste to society is a joke. If you think she has nothing to talk to her about ask her. Trust me, she likely has plenty of other interests, life stories, a former career, an education, places she has lived and traveled to, causes she is involved with...

Opposite of what I’ve experienced. I find it hard to be friends with SAHMs because everything revolves around their children. They seem way less likely to want to do anything without children involved. They go on fewer date nights, don’t travel with friends, etc. I assume some of this is because they are living off one paycheck.

FWIW almost everything you listed above is in the PAST. The SAHM has a previous career, travelED places etc. That’s the problem. If you work and are friends with SAHMs, it’s easy to see how you’re moving forward in life and they aren’t. The SAHM gives up major parts of her life to stay at home with children. There are extremely wealthy women who still manage to maintain an identity, but these are not the norm.

I mean, sorry to be mean, but I would assume this is because you yourself are not rich. If you were, you'd move in a crowd where it's the norm for SAHMs to have full or part time help, private school for multiple children, date night once or even more a week, 4-5 vacations + a second home somewhere.

Agree. There are real class differences that account for these various experiences people are reporting. It's all apples and oranges.

I disagree. I’m in the .05% and still find the SAHMs boring and solely focused on their children.

I highly doubt PP or many other posters here are so wealthy that they have private planes, send their kids to boarding school in Switzerland, etc. That kind of wealth is rarely seen in DC.

SAHMs hate to hear that even if they are wealthy they are boring and aren’t contributing to society, , but it’s the truth.

The complete generalization and condescension here is just so remarkably silly and not a good look.

[Anonymous]

I think we will see a rapid uptake in divorces

[Anonymous]

For the rabidly judgmental (on both sides) posters-i really don’t think this is good for you all mentally. If you have a therapist consider mentioning how angry you get on here and ask for help working through it.