Jews with Christmas/Holiday trees

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Different poster here. I don't care what non-religious people do. What I find annoying -- not offensive, but annoying -- is people who keep claiming that Christmas is secular and therefore Jews should celebrate it as a secular or American holiday. If Christmas can be whatever it means, then I wish those posters (who may not be you) would understand that to most Jews, at least any who were raised with any religious or traditional fervor, Christmas means Christ. Even if the actual celebration for many people means Santa. Because Christmas means Christ, and Jews don't do Christ, Jews don't do Christmas. It's pretty simple.

Well that will be news to all the people insisting that Jews do Christ.

Which, as far as I can tell, is exactly zero people.

Not sure what the problem is, still.

There is an entire industry of people trying to get Jews to 'do' Christ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don't know where you live but if you go to any church the christmas tree will be present and the services will focus on the true meaning of christmas, which is not the santa in the mall. Again, why the intensity of you effort to turn christmas into some sort of non-demonitational holiday? Is it simply to make you feel better about having a tree in your home?

First, I don't care what goes in any church. Mine had fish symbols in it also, does that mean we should be offended by Bass Pro Shops?

There is no intensity on this side to turn christmas into anything. It can be means what it means to you and exactly zero non-religious people will take any issue with it. But it is your side that is saying non-religious people should not put up a tree or celebrate the season. One side is intolerant despite the fact they they are guilty of exactly what they accuse others of.

Get it, now? Finally?

Different poster here. I don't care what non-religious people do. What I find annoying -- not offensive, but annoying -- is people who keep claiming that Christmas is secular and therefore Jews should celebrate it as a secular or American holiday. If Christmas can be whatever it means, then I wish those posters (who may not be you) would understand that to most Jews, at least any who were raised with any religious or traditional fervor, Christmas means Christ. Even if the actual celebration for many people means Santa. Because Christmas means Christ, and Jews don't do Christ, Jews don't do Christmas. It's pretty simple.

NP. LOL. Nobody here said Jews should celebrate Christmas. The only people who even care whether a Jew has a Christmas tree are other Jews.

And guess what, there are "other Jews" on this thread. Which you will note, is about Jews with Christmas trees, not gentile Agnostics with Christmas trees.

Look, as a Jew I want Jews to embrace Judaism and Jewishness. But if they are getting a Christmas tree, religious or not, they are probably either doing it for the intermarried partner or they are too far gone in assimilation to really worry about.

But what I and other committed Jews hear on this (and elsewhere) is GENTILES telling us "There is nothing "christian" about a Christmas tree, because yadda yadda yadda" which is not actually insisting on us getting trees, but is basically saying our reasons to not have one have no validity.

Now if your issue is some fundie saying to you (a non religious goy) that you shouldnt be allowed to have a tree because you don't go to church, you can have that debate, but could you like have it in a thread other than whose title is specifically about Jews?

I’m not a goy, and I think you’re being ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Different poster here. I don't care what non-religious people do. What I find annoying -- not offensive, but annoying -- is people who keep claiming that Christmas is secular and therefore Jews should celebrate it as a secular or American holiday. If Christmas can be whatever it means, then I wish those posters (who may not be you) would understand that to most Jews, at least any who were raised with any religious or traditional fervor, Christmas means Christ. Even if the actual celebration for many people means Santa. Because Christmas means Christ, and Jews don't do Christ, Jews don't do Christmas. It's pretty simple.

Well that will be news to all the people insisting that Jews do Christ.

Which, as far as I can tell, is exactly zero people.

Not sure what the problem is, still.

There is an entire industry of people trying to get Jews to 'do' Christ.

Plus, the point is, to many Jews, telling us to just have a Christmas tree because it's secular is no different from telling us to celebrate Christmas or celebrate Christ. For some reason this is seems very hard for non-Jews to understand. It is very obvious to me and the other Jewish posters on here, however. So thanks to the PP above for the flip answer. "The problem" is exactly this -- we don't want to celebrate Christmas, and claiming that Christmas traditions are not really Christian, but pagan, doesn't change that. Also, turning a Christmas tree into a Hanukkah tree fools no one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Different poster here. I don't care what non-religious people do. What I find annoying -- not offensive, but annoying -- is people who keep claiming that Christmas is secular and therefore Jews should celebrate it as a secular or American holiday. If Christmas can be whatever it means, then I wish those posters (who may not be you) would understand that to most Jews, at least any who were raised with any religious or traditional fervor, Christmas means Christ. Even if the actual celebration for many people means Santa. Because Christmas means Christ, and Jews don't do Christ, Jews don't do Christmas. It's pretty simple.

Well that will be news to all the people insisting that Jews do Christ.

Which, as far as I can tell, is exactly zero people.

Not sure what the problem is, still.

There is an entire industry of people trying to get Jews to 'do' Christ.

Who? Educate me please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I care that Jews remain Jewish, and yeah, having a Christmas tree is another step in assimilation. We are a small people, and each one we lose matters. Again, unless you are Jewish, I dont think you can understand that feeling.

You are correct.

I don't understand caring about what other people do or believe. It makes no sense to me, and is as offensive as people knocking on my door trying to convert me to whatever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Plus, the point is, to many Jews, telling us to just have a Christmas tree because it's secular is no different from telling us to celebrate Christmas or celebrate Christ. For some reason this is seems very hard for non-Jews to understand. It is very obvious to me and the other Jewish posters on here, however. So thanks to the PP above for the flip answer. "The problem" is exactly this -- we don't want to celebrate Christmas, and claiming that Christmas traditions are not really Christian, but pagan, doesn't change that. Also, turning a Christmas tree into a Hanukkah tree fools no one.

For the n-th time: No one is telling you to have a tree. They are telling you your outrage when non-christians do is wrong.

[Anonymous]

A good friend of my son’s, who is an MBA and makes millions, pushed me on why my family couldn’t have a Christmas tree despite being Jewish. He just could not understand it.

[Anonymous]

You cannot have a Christmas teee for 2 reasons

1. You are only 1 of 0.2% of world population. We need every one of you to preserve our thousands of years old traditions

2. A tree has become a symbol of Christ-mas there is a Christ in there. The birth of Christianity marked a period of turmoil for Jews. inquisition, forced conversions, pogroms, etc. I am not clear why a Jewish person would want to celebrate the birth of Christ.

[Anonymous]

It would seem that Jews want to have a tree for the shallowest if reasons......envy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Different poster here. I don't care what non-religious people do. What I find annoying -- not offensive, but annoying -- is people who keep claiming that Christmas is secular and therefore Jews should celebrate it as a secular or American holiday. If Christmas can be whatever it means, then I wish those posters (who may not be you) would understand that to most Jews, at least any who were raised with any religious or traditional fervor, Christmas means Christ. Even if the actual celebration for many people means Santa. Because Christmas means Christ, and Jews don't do Christ, Jews don't do Christmas. It's pretty simple.

Well that will be news to all the people insisting that Jews do Christ.

Which, as far as I can tell, is exactly zero people.

Not sure what the problem is, still.

There is an entire industry of people trying to get Jews to 'do' Christ.

Who? Educate me please.

https://outreachjudaism.org/evangelizing-the-jews/

and right here in NoVa, the McLean Bible Church.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It would seem that Jews want to have a tree for the shallowest if reasons......envy.

One more time, most Jews dont want to have a tree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Plus, the point is, to many Jews, telling us to just have a Christmas tree because it's secular is no different from telling us to celebrate Christmas or celebrate Christ. For some reason this is seems very hard for non-Jews to understand. It is very obvious to me and the other Jewish posters on here, however. So thanks to the PP above for the flip answer. "The problem" is exactly this -- we don't want to celebrate Christmas, and claiming that Christmas traditions are not really Christian, but pagan, doesn't change that. Also, turning a Christmas tree into a Hanukkah tree fools no one.

For the n-th time: No one is telling you to have a tree. They are telling you your outrage when non-christians do is wrong.

I have never expressed outrage that gentile agnostics (or Hindus or whatever) have trees. And while its difficult to be sure in an anon forum, I am quite sure that no other Jew is doing so.

What bothers us are people trying to say that as Jews we should not have issues with another Jew having a tree. We do have such issues and with good reason, and debating the details of ancient Roman saturnalia is neither here nor there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would seem that Jews want to have a tree for the shallowest if reasons......envy.

One more time, most Jews dont want to have a tree.

That wasn’t the impression I got from the posters on this very thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don't know where you live but if you go to any church the christmas tree will be present and the services will focus on the true meaning of christmas, which is not the santa in the mall. Again, why the intensity of you effort to turn christmas into some sort of non-demonitational holiday? Is it simply to make you feel better about having a tree in your home?

First, I don't care what goes in any church. Mine had fish symbols in it also, does that mean we should be offended by Bass Pro Shops?

There is no intensity on this side to turn christmas into anything. It can be means what it means to you and exactly zero non-religious people will take any issue with it. But it is your side that is saying non-religious people should not put up a tree or celebrate the season. One side is intolerant despite the fact they they are guilty of exactly what they accuse others of.

Get it, now? Finally?

Different poster here. I don't care what non-religious people do. What I find annoying -- not offensive, but annoying -- is people who keep claiming that Christmas is secular and therefore Jews should celebrate it as a secular or American holiday. If Christmas can be whatever it means, then I wish those posters (who may not be you) would understand that to most Jews, at least any who were raised with any religious or traditional fervor, Christmas means Christ. Even if the actual celebration for many people means Santa. Because Christmas means Christ, and Jews don't do Christ, Jews don't do Christmas. It's pretty simple.

NP. LOL. Nobody here said Jews should celebrate Christmas. The only people who even care whether a Jew has a Christmas tree are other Jews.

And guess what, there are "other Jews" on this thread. Which you will note, is about Jews with Christmas trees, not gentile Agnostics with Christmas trees.

Look, as a Jew I want Jews to embrace Judaism and Jewishness. But if they are getting a Christmas tree, religious or not, they are probably either doing it for the intermarried partner or they are too far gone in assimilation to really worry about.

But what I and other committed Jews hear on this (and elsewhere) is GENTILES telling us "There is nothing "christian" about a Christmas tree, because yadda yadda yadda" which is not actually insisting on us getting trees, but is basically saying our reasons to not have one have no validity.

Now if your issue is some fundie saying to you (a non religious goy) that you shouldnt be allowed to have a tree because you don't go to church, you can have that debate, but could you like have it in a thread other than whose title is specifically about Jews?

I’m not a goy, and I think you’re being ridiculous.

Ah. Then why are you are not getting into the meaning of secular Jewish identity and how to preserve it? If you are a Jew who is both totally not religious and also uninterested in Jewish survival as a people, then IMO you fall into "too far gone too matter".

Go have fun at Saturnalia, the feast of Edom (as our tradition called Rome)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would seem that Jews want to have a tree for the shallowest if reasons......envy.

One more time, most Jews dont want to have a tree.

That wasn’t the impression I got from the posters on this very thread.

Hmmm, you wouldnt have guessed that a thread about Jews with christmas trees might attract a statistically non representative group of posters? Not be racist but this sure don't sound like a "yiddishe kopf".