Some facts about Holistic Admissions Criteria from Stanford Daily

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
SUGGEST? When the 'academic elite' at these schools make comments about not wanting their schools to be "All Asian", etc, there is no SUGGEST. That's out-and-out racism. This Jew is well-aware that happened to Jews back in the 20s and is not about to see history repeat itself with Asians as the victims. It's BS of the highest order.

As a Jew to a Jew - what happened in the 20s did not kill us, but made us stronger and smarter.
Discrimination exists and it is wrong. But when it happens to you - do not cry victim. Just move on and make the best of the circumstances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So University of California or University of Michigan? If so, he's at a great school.

And mean time a black kid with 3.6 gpa and 2050 SAT and nothing major to show for gets admitted to an Ivy League school.

I've got no problem with that. Both kids seem capable of doing the work. No one's entitled to admission to an Ivy. If the school is using its admissions process to put together a racially diverse class rather than to maximize the standardized test scores of its incoming class, that's an UNCONSTITUTIONAL decision I think it should be allowed to make.

Out of curiosity, why do you single out this hypothetical black kid as the student that got the spot you believe was rightfully the Asian kid's? Are you assuming that every white kid who was admitted had credentials comparable or superior to the Asian kid's?

Fixed that for you.

You are actually advocating for racism, based on a chosen class you've personally picked. God, I love progressives and the utter hypocrisy they can't even see rules them.

No it's not unconstitutional. Harvard's admissions process was cited in the Bakke case as an example of race-conscious admissions done right. And in Grutter the Court upheld a similar approach in the context of public university making law school admissions decisions. The central constitutional question here is whether/how/to what extent government actors can use race-conscious means to address racial inequality. I didn't "personal" pick African Americans as victims of racism, but I can certainly see and acknowledge both the historic and contemporary ways in which being black in the U.S. affects ones' life chances in the U.S.

And you still haven't answered my question about why it's the hypothetical African American student with slightly lower SAT scores that you see as depriving an Asian American kid of a spot in an Ivy League school. it's not as if white kids with similar scores don't get into Ivies. But, apparently you assume there's some legit explanation there, whereas the black kid is obviously unworthy. See, that's racism.

I don't assume the Asian kid was unworthy. I assume he should end up at a top school. And it sounds like he did. If my own high-stats white kid applied only to 8 Ivies (or comparably selective schools) and one excellent public school (like Berkeley or Ann Arbor), and then only got into the public school, I wouldn't assume she is the victim of racism or sexism. I'd assume she rolled the dice, lost, and chose her safety school wisely. If she applied to 30 schools and got in nowhere, I'd assume that she made some serious mistakes in choosing where to apply and/or in choosing recommenders or writing essays. So, no, My attitude isn't racist. My attitude is that of someone who recognizes how arbitrary elite college admissions are generally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My white, upper middle class (at least) daughter, from a top Northern Virginia public high school, with no hooks, no spectacular extracurriculars (no leadership positions and no varsity sport), and run-of-the-mill essays, was accepted at U-Va despite having an SAT score lower than the school's 25th percentile and more than 100 points lower than the school's average (on the 1600 scale). Why? She had outstanding grades in tough classes.

No one is going to tell me that she cost an Asian or anyone else a spot at U-Va.

Swap uva for t25 private school and she would've been shut-out (perhaps emory or cmu might have taken her, that's about it).

UVA (even though va does not practice race blind admissions like west coast schools do) does not abuse holistic admission like t10/t25 privates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My white, upper middle class (at least) daughter, from a top Northern Virginia public high school, with no hooks, no spectacular extracurriculars (no leadership positions and no varsity sport), and run-of-the-mill essays, was accepted at U-Va despite having an SAT score lower than the school's 25th percentile and more than 100 points lower than the school's average (on the 1600 scale). Why? She had outstanding grades in tough classes.

No one is going to tell me that she cost an Asian or anyone else a spot at U-Va.

Yes. I know plenty of kids like your daughter from Langley (as an example) who got into UVA over other kids from Langley who had what your daughter did - and more. The question is why. Your answer lies probably in quotas, not solely in the outstanding grades in tough classes.

How many rich white girls kids from Langley actually got into U-Va with SATs in the low 1200s? I'm guessing very few. Until now all I've been hearing about is the "Northern Virginia" quota . . . suddenly that's not an issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My white, upper middle class (at least) daughter, from a top Northern Virginia public high school, with no hooks, no spectacular extracurriculars (no leadership positions and no varsity sport), and run-of-the-mill essays, was accepted at U-Va despite having an SAT score lower than the school's 25th percentile and more than 100 points lower than the school's average (on the 1600 scale). Why? She had outstanding grades in tough classes.

No one is going to tell me that she cost an Asian or anyone else a spot at U-Va.

Yes. I know plenty of kids like your daughter from Langley (as an example) who got into UVA over other kids from Langley who had what your daughter did - and more. The question is why. Your answer lies probably in quotas, not solely in the outstanding grades in tough classes.

How many rich white girls kids from Langley actually got into U-Va with SATs in the low 1200s? I'm guessing very few. Until now all I've been hearing about is the "Northern Virginia" quota . . . suddenly that's not an issue.

something must have changed this year in UVa’s admissions policies. Our local HS (in Fairfax county) historically had about 8% of its class go to UVA; this year suddenly it’s much higher. Don’t know why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: If my own high-stats white kid applied only to 8 Ivies (or comparably selective schools) and one excellent public school (like Berkeley or Ann Arbor), and then only got into the public school, I wouldn't assume she is the victim of racism or sexism. I'd assume she rolled the dice, lost, and chose her safety school wisely. If she applied to 30 schools and got in nowhere, I'd assume that she made some serious mistakes in choosing where to apply and/or in choosing recommenders or writing essays. So, no, My attitude isn't racist. My attitude is that of someone who recognizes how arbitrary elite college admissions are generally.

Hear, hear!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My white, upper middle class (at least) daughter, from a top Northern Virginia public high school, with no hooks, no spectacular extracurriculars (no leadership positions and no varsity sport), and run-of-the-mill essays, was accepted at U-Va despite having an SAT score lower than the school's 25th percentile and more than 100 points lower than the school's average (on the 1600 scale). Why? She had outstanding grades in tough classes.

No one is going to tell me that she cost an Asian or anyone else a spot at U-Va.

Yes. I know plenty of kids like your daughter from Langley (as an example) who got into UVA over other kids from Langley who had what your daughter did - and more. The question is why. Your answer lies probably in quotas, not solely in the outstanding grades in tough classes.

How many rich white girls kids from Langley actually got into U-Va with SATs in the low 1200s? I'm guessing very few. Until now all I've been hearing about is the "Northern Virginia" quota . . . suddenly that's not an issue.

More 'full pay' kids in nova - with budget cuts, shifting the balance to admit more nova kids might make financial sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
SUGGEST? When the 'academic elite' at these schools make comments about not wanting their schools to be "All Asian", etc, there is no SUGGEST. That's out-and-out racism. This Jew is well-aware that happened to Jews back in the 20s and is not about to see history repeat itself with Asians as the victims. It's BS of the highest order.

As a Jew to a Jew - what happened in the 20s did not kill us, but made us stronger and smarter.
Discrimination exists and it is wrong. But when it happens to you - do not cry victim. Just move on and make the best of the circumstances.

A bit rich coming from a jew when aipac and adl jump on anyone that voices an opinion that they don't like by yelling 'antisemitism'.

[Anonymous]

I should add that while I recognize how arbitrary elite college admissions are, the other pieces of the puzzle for me are that (a) there are lots of colleges in the U.S. where a smart and hard-working kid can get a great education (b) college is the new HS, in the sense that, for many jobs, where you go to grad school will have a much greater impact on your career than where you went to college and (c) by the time grad school admissions rolls around, students have more meaningful/relevant credentials and it's easier to choose among them based on aptitude and preparation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I should add that while I recognize how arbitrary elite college admissions are, the other pieces of the puzzle for me are that (a) there are lots of colleges in the U.S. where a smart and hard-working kid can get a great education (b) college is the new HS, in the sense that, for many jobs, where you go to grad school will have a much greater impact on your career than where you went to college and (c) by the time grad school admissions rolls around, students have more meaningful/relevant credentials and it's easier to choose among them based on aptitude and preparation.

if you don't think grad schools don't practice holistic admissions (in non-stem), I have beachfront property to sell you in kansas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: If my own high-stats white kid applied only to 8 Ivies (or comparably selective schools) and one excellent public school (like Berkeley or Ann Arbor), and then only got into the public school, I wouldn't assume she is the victim of racism or sexism. I'd assume she rolled the dice, lost, and chose her safety school wisely. If she applied to 30 schools and got in nowhere, I'd assume that she made some serious mistakes in choosing where to apply and/or in choosing recommenders or writing essays. So, no, My attitude isn't racist. My attitude is that of someone who recognizes how arbitrary elite college admissions are generally.

Hear, hear!

I agree with the above, also. The elite schools are called "lottery schools" for a reason. Lots and lots of highly qualified kids and not enough places for all of them. I would never allow a kid of mine to apply only to elite schools, you've got to have a mix. You have to do the research and choose wisely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My white, upper middle class (at least) daughter, from a top Northern Virginia public high school, with no hooks, no spectacular extracurriculars (no leadership positions and no varsity sport), and run-of-the-mill essays, was accepted at U-Va despite having an SAT score lower than the school's 25th percentile and more than 100 points lower than the school's average (on the 1600 scale). Why? She had outstanding grades in tough classes.

No one is going to tell me that she cost an Asian or anyone else a spot at U-Va.

Yes. I know plenty of kids like your daughter from Langley (as an example) who got into UVA over other kids from Langley who had what your daughter did - and more. The question is why. Your answer lies probably in quotas, not solely in the outstanding grades in tough classes.

How many rich white girls kids from Langley actually got into U-Va with SATs in the low 1200s? I'm guessing very few. Until now all I've been hearing about is the "Northern Virginia" quota . . . suddenly that's not an issue.

something must have changed this year in UVa’s admissions policies. Our local HS (in Fairfax county) historically had about 8% of its class go to UVA; this year suddenly it’s much higher. Don’t know why.

They didn't change the policy, believe me. You don't know the stats of everyone admitted, and the reported numbers are virtually identical to last year. Oh, and my daughter graduated HS a couple years ago -- not this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My white, upper middle class (at least) daughter, from a top Northern Virginia public high school, with no hooks, no spectacular extracurriculars (no leadership positions and no varsity sport), and run-of-the-mill essays, was accepted at U-Va despite having an SAT score lower than the school's 25th percentile and more than 100 points lower than the school's average (on the 1600 scale). Why? She had outstanding grades in tough classes.

No one is going to tell me that she cost an Asian or anyone else a spot at U-Va.

Yes. I know plenty of kids like your daughter from Langley (as an example) who got into UVA over other kids from Langley who had what your daughter did - and more. The question is why. Your answer lies probably in quotas, not solely in the outstanding grades in tough classes.

How many rich white girls kids from Langley actually got into U-Va with SATs in the low 1200s? I'm guessing very few. Until now all I've been hearing about is the "Northern Virginia" quota . . . suddenly that's not an issue.

More 'full pay' kids in nova - with budget cuts, shifting the balance to admit more nova kids might make financial sense.

Except, again, this didn't happen this year. It was a couple of years ago. AND the reported numbers don't lie; U-Va hasn't increased the number/percentage of offers to NOVA in recent years.

Worse thing about DCUM: Opinions being offered that are contrary to easily verifiable facts . . .

[Anonymous]

^ I knew I wasn’t making this up. Just talking to parents around here, yes it’s anecdotal, but so many more saying their kid got into UVa this year.

So here it is -- they expanded the class size and Fairfaix has gotten a bigger share. http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/northern-virginia-leads-uva-w-m-admissions/article_0d4c5fcd-505d-5261-bf95-59509fe1192b.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ I knew I wasn’t making this up. Just talking to parents around here, yes it’s anecdotal, but so many more saying their kid got into UVa this year.

So here it is -- they expanded the class size and Fairfaix has gotten a bigger share. http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/northern-virginia-leads-uva-w-m-admissions/article_0d4c5fcd-505d-5261-bf95-59509fe1192b.html

Um, that article is four years old . . .