Some facts about Holistic Admissions Criteria from Stanford Daily

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I should add that while I recognize how arbitrary elite college admissions are, the other pieces of the puzzle for me are that (a) there are lots of colleges in the U.S. where a smart and hard-working kid can get a great education (b) college is the new HS, in the sense that, for many jobs, where you go to grad school will have a much greater impact on your career than where you went to college and (c) by the time grad school admissions rolls around, students have more meaningful/relevant credentials and it's easier to choose among them based on aptitude and preparation.

if you don't think grad schools don't practice holistic admissions (in non-stem), I have beachfront property to sell you in kansas.

Depends on the field. Since I cited Grutter and noted that it was a law school case, obviously I know that professional schools practice holistic admissions. OTOH, it's a different kind of whole and often a different kind of decionmaker, as well as a different sized pool. I've done graduate admissions for a PhD program -- they were made by the faculty who would actually be teaching the students, extra curriculars were largely irrelevant, and we had a good sense of what kind of work incoming students could already do and were interested in pursuing in the future. And we were looking at hundreds -- not tens of thousands -- of applications. So skills and interests mattered a helluva lot more and marketing a helluva lot less than it does in undergrad admissions at highly selective schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ I knew I wasn’t making this up. Just talking to parents around here, yes it’s anecdotal, but so many more saying their kid got into UVa this year.

So here it is -- they expanded the class size and Fairfaix has gotten a bigger share. http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/northern-virginia-leads-uva-w-m-admissions/article_0d4c5fcd-505d-5261-bf95-59509fe1192b.html

Um, that article is four years old . . .

You'll also want to look here, at the actual data for the last fives years, and not at a newspaper article. As you'll see, virtually no change . . .

http://research.schev.edu/enrollment/b8_admissions_locality.asp

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
SUGGEST? When the 'academic elite' at these schools make comments about not wanting their schools to be "All Asian", etc, there is no SUGGEST. That's out-and-out racism. This Jew is well-aware that happened to Jews back in the 20s and is not about to see history repeat itself with Asians as the victims. It's BS of the highest order.

As a Jew to a Jew - what happened in the 20s did not kill us, but made us stronger and smarter.
Discrimination exists and it is wrong. But when it happens to you - do not cry victim. Just move on and make the best of the circumstances.

You correct the wrongs into rights, my friend. Otherwise 6 million of us perish...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think what prompted the comments this time was the post that seemed to suggest that it was a gross miscarriage of justice if a high-stats Asian kid ended up at Berkeley or Ann Arbor while an African American kid with lower stats got admitted to an Ivy.

Um. No. See? That's the problem. BERKELEY is stating "too many Asians". In what world is it OK to state that out loud - and have a bunch of idiots nod their heads in agreement?

There is an interesting case in the book Gatekeepers, about a Hispanic Admissions counselor uprating a girl who got poor grades and 550s on her math and english SATs. He admitted that wouldn't happen if she was Asian or White, and furthermore denied a much stronger Asian candidate, saying "he hoped that would not be reviewed'. In addition, he rated her highly for her Hispanic background because they needed Hispanics.

This was back in 2004. We have now upgraded to "We have too many Asians" being said out loud, and progressives wholeheartedly agreeing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if you believe in standardized testing, you'd have to be a fool to think that SAT scores should determine who gets admitted to highly selective colleges. They may be useful for disqualifying applicants, but in terms of sorting out/rank ordering the smartest or even the best prepared kids, they're not very helpful at all.

"For the millionth time, this response will address the same issue so pay attention:

Asian Americans do not argue for test scores or gpas to trump over other factors. In fact, colleges can use all the objective and subjective criteria they want to use. That is fine and dandy.

Stop repeating the same nonsense over and over again. You don't write so well as to be worth quoting. If colleges want use 'subjective' criteria to screen out unlikable study drones of any race... they will.

Same response is necessary since the same statement is repeated over and over again in the first place. Blame the posters who post the same idiotic statement that SAT should not be the sole criterion for college admission when Asians are not saying that.

Interestingly enough, the Hispanic admissions counselor said that Weseleyan - and many other schools - filter SAT scores through race. Again, in what world is that acceptable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So University of California or University of Michigan? If so, he's at a great school.

And mean time a black kid with 3.6 gpa and 2050 SAT and nothing major to show for gets admitted to an Ivy League school.

I've got no problem with that. Both kids seem capable of doing the work. No one's entitled to admission to an Ivy. If the school is using its admissions process to put together a racially diverse class rather than to maximize the standardized test scores of its incoming class, that's an UNCONSTITUTIONAL decision I think it should be allowed to make.

Out of curiosity, why do you single out this hypothetical black kid as the student that got the spot you believe was rightfully the Asian kid's? Are you assuming that every white kid who was admitted had credentials comparable or superior to the Asian kid's?

Fixed that for you.

You are actually advocating for racism, based on a chosen class you've personally picked. God, I love progressives and the utter hypocrisy they can't even see rules them.

No it's not unconstitutional. Harvard's admissions process was cited in the Bakke case as an example of race-conscious admissions done right. And in Grutter the Court upheld a similar approach in the context of public university making law school admissions decisions. The central constitutional question here is whether/how/to what extent government actors can use race-conscious means to address racial inequality. I didn't "personal" pick African Americans as victims of racism, but I can certainly see and acknowledge both the historic and contemporary ways in which being black in the U.S. affects ones' life chances in the U.S.

And you still haven't answered my question about why it's the hypothetical African American student with slightly lower SAT scores that you see as depriving an Asian American kid of a spot in an Ivy League school. it's not as if white kids with similar scores don't get into Ivies. But, apparently you assume there's some legit explanation there, whereas the black kid is obviously unworthy. See, that's racism.

I don't assume the Asian kid was unworthy. I assume he should end up at a top school. And it sounds like he did. If my own high-stats white kid applied only to 8 Ivies (or comparably selective schools) and one excellent public school (like Berkeley or Ann Arbor), and then only got into the public school, I wouldn't assume she is the victim of racism or sexism. I'd assume she rolled the dice, lost, and chose her safety school wisely. If she applied to 30 schools and got in nowhere, I'd assume that she made some serious mistakes in choosing where to apply and/or in choosing recommenders or writing essays. So, no, My attitude isn't racist. My attitude is that of someone who recognizes how arbitrary elite college admissions are generally.

That decision said race could be considered, not used specifically to determine admittance of one race over another. Fisher is being seen again because big mouthed liberals are spouting off proudly about their racism towards Asians.

You really need to read up more about the holistics admissions process and how applications are rated, and about the facts schools actually shred the evidence afterwards so it can't be revisited for any reason. Pretty sick stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ I knew I wasn’t making this up. Just talking to parents around here, yes it’s anecdotal, but so many more saying their kid got into UVa this year.

So here it is -- they expanded the class size and Fairfaix has gotten a bigger share. http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/northern-virginia-leads-uva-w-m-admissions/article_0d4c5fcd-505d-5261-bf95-59509fe1192b.html

Um, that article is four years old . . .

And?

Del. Tim Hugo is a republican. No surprise. It always takes and R to stop bullshit like this.

But Hugo says those efforts aren’t enough, and he’ll continue to press for a reduction in the percentage of out-of-state students. “I appreciate the efforts, but I think they still have a long way to go,” he said Friday. “These are public institutions, and they have a responsibility to Virginia students.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ I knew I wasn’t making this up. Just talking to parents around here, yes it’s anecdotal, but so many more saying their kid got into UVa this year.

So here it is -- they expanded the class size and Fairfaix has gotten a bigger share. http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/northern-virginia-leads-uva-w-m-admissions/article_0d4c5fcd-505d-5261-bf95-59509fe1192b.html

Um, that article is four years old . . .

And?

Del. Tim Hugo is a republican. No surprise. It always takes and R to stop bullshit like this.

But Hugo says those efforts aren’t enough, and he’ll continue to press for a reduction in the percentage of out-of-state students. “I appreciate the efforts, but I think they still have a long way to go,” he said Friday. “These are public institutions, and they have a responsibility to Virginia students.”

Blah blah blah. They've been saying this for decades. But the numbers don't lie. No real changes.

http://research.schev.edu/enrollment/b8_admissions_locality.asp

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ I knew I wasn’t making this up. Just talking to parents around here, yes it’s anecdotal, but so many more saying their kid got into UVa this year.

So here it is -- they expanded the class size and Fairfaix has gotten a bigger share. http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/northern-virginia-leads-uva-w-m-admissions/article_0d4c5fcd-505d-5261-bf95-59509fe1192b.html

Um, that article is four years old . . .

And?

Del. Tim Hugo is a republican. No surprise. It always takes and R to stop bullshit like this.

But Hugo says those efforts aren’t enough, and he’ll continue to press for a reduction in the percentage of out-of-state students. “I appreciate the efforts, but I think they still have a long way to go,” he said Friday. “These are public institutions, and they have a responsibility to Virginia students.”

2014-2015 shows a 5% drop over admissions previous years from the county of Fairfax.

Blah blah blah. They've been saying this for decades. But the numbers don't lie. No real changes.

http://research.schev.edu/enrollment/b8_admissions_locality.asp

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So University of California or University of Michigan? If so, he's at a great school.

And mean time a black kid with 3.6 gpa and 2050 SAT and nothing major to show for gets admitted to an Ivy League school.

I've got no problem with that. Both kids seem capable of doing the work. No one's entitled to admission to an Ivy. If the school is using its admissions process to put together a racially diverse class rather than to maximize the standardized test scores of its incoming class, that's an UNCONSTITUTIONAL decision I think it should be allowed to make.

Out of curiosity, why do you single out this hypothetical black kid as the student that got the spot you believe was rightfully the Asian kid's? Are you assuming that every white kid who was admitted had credentials comparable or superior to the Asian kid's?

Fixed that for you.

You are actually advocating for racism, based on a chosen class you've personally picked. God, I love progressives and the utter hypocrisy they can't even see rules them.

No it's not unconstitutional. Harvard's admissions process was cited in the Bakke case as an example of race-conscious admissions done right. And in Grutter the Court upheld a similar approach in the context of public university making law school admissions decisions. The central constitutional question here is whether/how/to what extent government actors can use race-conscious means to address racial inequality. I didn't "personal" pick African Americans as victims of racism, but I can certainly see and acknowledge both the historic and contemporary ways in which being black in the U.S. affects ones' life chances in the U.S.

And you still haven't answered my question about why it's the hypothetical African American student with slightly lower SAT scores that you see as depriving an Asian American kid of a spot in an Ivy League school. it's not as if white kids with similar scores don't get into Ivies. But, apparently you assume there's some legit explanation there, whereas the black kid is obviously unworthy. See, that's racism.

I don't assume the Asian kid was unworthy. I assume he should end up at a top school. And it sounds like he did. If my own high-stats white kid applied only to 8 Ivies (or comparably selective schools) and one excellent public school (like Berkeley or Ann Arbor), and then only got into the public school, I wouldn't assume she is the victim of racism or sexism. I'd assume she rolled the dice, lost, and chose her safety school wisely. If she applied to 30 schools and got in nowhere, I'd assume that she made some serious mistakes in choosing where to apply and/or in choosing recommenders or writing essays. So, no, My attitude isn't racist. My attitude is that of someone who recognizes how arbitrary elite college admissions are generally.

That decision said race could be considered, not used specifically to determine admittance of one race over another. Fisher is being seen again because big mouthed liberals are spouting off proudly about their racism towards Asians.

You really need to read up more about the holistics admissions process and how applications are rated, and about the facts schools actually shred the evidence afterwards so it can't be revisited for any reason. Pretty sick stuff.

"— African-American students lagged behind significantly in all areas. Only 14 percent of black students taking the ACT test passed the college readiness standard for math, 12 percent in science, 34 percent in English and 19 percent in reading."

http://news.yahoo.com/no-improvement-act-says-college-exam-scores-stagnant-071025610.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"— African-American students lagged behind significantly in all areas. Only 14 percent of black students taking the ACT test passed the college readiness standard for math, 12 percent in science, 34 percent in English and 19 percent in reading."

http://news.yahoo.com/no-improvement-act-says-college-exam-scores-stagnant-071025610.html

Irrelevant. People who cannot read do not apply to top colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"— African-American students lagged behind significantly in all areas. Only 14 percent of black students taking the ACT test passed the college readiness standard for math, 12 percent in science, 34 percent in English and 19 percent in reading."

http://news.yahoo.com/no-improvement-act-says-college-exam-scores-stagnant-071025610.html

Irrelevant. People who cannot read do not apply to top colleges.

People who can read simple passages do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"— African-American students lagged behind significantly in all areas. Only 14 percent of black students taking the ACT test passed the college readiness standard for math, 12 percent in science, 34 percent in English and 19 percent in reading."

http://news.yahoo.com/no-improvement-act-says-college-exam-scores-stagnant-071025610.html

Irrelevant. People who cannot read do not apply to top colleges.

Wasn't there a huge UNC scandal?

[Anonymous]

Weselyan University admissions referred to themselves as "social engineers", admitting to expecting Asian SAT scores to be a full 200 points above a black or hispanic person's, and stating outright that poor white students could be denied because there is always another applying.

Very disturbing stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"— African-American students lagged behind significantly in all areas. Only 14 percent of black students taking the ACT test passed the college readiness standard for math, 12 percent in science, 34 percent in English and 19 percent in reading."

http://news.yahoo.com/no-improvement-act-says-college-exam-scores-stagnant-071025610.html

Irrelevant. People who cannot read do not apply to top colleges.

Wasn't there a huge UNC scandal?

UNC is not a top college. A very good school, but it will not impress folks back home in China or Korea.