Can we stop referring to households making $200 or 300K a year as "middle class"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just because you think Silver Spring is beneath you, doesn't mean you're middle class.

So true. We have what the PP described (3BR within 30min drive or metro ride to downtown DC) for $400k. You do have to be a little open minded and actually talk to neighbors and visit the schools as opposed to just judging them by their test scores, which is a lot of work for some people. I mean, if we tried to pay double that for a similar house in Bethesda we'd feel pretty poor too, but that would be of our own making.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't get it. What is "middle class" if not a lifestyle? If you live in a modest home and send your kids to public school and drive a Hyundai and save for retirement and college and don't expect to ever live off your "wealth," what are you? Housing, child care, and student loans eat up an enormous amount of money. I think it's BS to say that someone living in a 4,000 sq. ft new house on two acres outside of Houston and driving two new European cars on a $150K salary is 'middle class' but someone living in a 1,500 sq ft 60-year-old Cape on 1/5 acre in south Arlington and driving two Hondas on $300K is 'upper class.'

We're doing this on 90k. What are you doing wrong?

So your mortgage is $4000 with a takehome of $7500 before taxes? How do you do that on $90k?

Different PP here. The point is that while you live a middle class lifestyle that is only because you have chosen to commit a large part of your income to luxuries. You can do the same in a house with a $2000 mortgage, but you choose to live in an area where the housing prices are higher, probably because of a strong public school system. That is a luxury, one that the true middle class cannot afford. You chose more expensive child care because you had the means to do so, that's a luxury. Most true middle class cannot afford an expensive nanny or daycare center. If they don't have extended family to watch their children, they choose a less expensive in-home daycare or perhaps a non-resident nanny/babysitter who they can pay less. The middle class cannot afford to buy in Arlington, cannot afford daycare centers and make a number of other sacrifices that you don't have to make because you are not middle class. You may not be rich, but you are affluent, e.g. above upper middle class. In Arlington, the middle class is around $75K to $150K, so upper middle class is around $125-150K. You make more money than 95% of the area, so you aren't middle of anything other than middle of the top 10% of annual incomes in your region. You spend it on luxuries so you don't have as much disposable income, but you still get to spend it on things that the true middle class cannot afford.

Did you read my post? I said I live in a small, old house on a tiny lot and drive older, cheaper cars. Other people, who make what you consider a middle class salary but live in a place with a lower cost of living, can actually afford many luxuries that people living around DC cannot, including much better housing. I'm not saying I'm scraping by. But our standard of living is not really better -- unless you are seriously arguing that living in Arlington is in and of itself a "luxury" -- than what people would consider "middle class."

Again, the daycare example--just because it costs more here doesn't mean its better. The center-based daycare in an old church basement that my kids went to here costs almost twice as much as the one my in-laws send their kids to, which is in a brand-new building. I have to spend way more of my income to get the same thing that people in other parts of the country get for half the price. If I make more money than someone who meets your definition of middle class, but I have to pay more for housing, day care, gas, food etc because of where I live so I end up in the same place, why am I "upper class" and they are "middle class"?

Did you read my post? Yes, when you live in a more desirable area, then by supply and demand, the price and costs are higher. Arlington is more desirable than Burke or Springfield or Newington because it is closer in. The commute into DC is much shorter and people who work downtown will pay a premium to be closer to work. You are competing with people who want the convenience of living closer to work downtown who make more money and can drive the prices up. If you made $125K could you afford even your tiny house in Arlington? No. Once again, living in a high cost of living area like Arlington is a luxury. You complain about having a small church basement daycare that is more expensive than a exurban daycare in a brand-new building. But the point is that only people that can afford that expensive part of town for a small house and a church basement daycare can even consider living there. There is no way that a true middle class person can even consider buying a home in Arlington and being able to afford childcare in that area.

You spend your money on the convenience of living close to DC and especially if you live in N Arlington, for the benefit of good schools, too. You have the means to choose that (or choose to go for more bang for the buck somewhere cheaper). The true middle class has fewer options and those do not include what you have chosen.

Fine, but you're saying that choice and time (time not spent commuting) are what I'm spending my money on. Those aren't tangible luxuries, which are what people usually cite when they think of someone with a higher income ("you could just go to Starbucks less often" "you don't need to drive a Mercedes"). I don't go to Starbucks or drive a Mercedes, but I have a 30-minute commute. There is a big disconnect between how people perceive that income and what it actually buys you in a high cost of living area.

Actually, an 850k house in an affluent neighborhood is exactly what most people cite when they think of someone with a higher income (it is also very tangible, by the way). To your main point - you have many choices, you chose an 850k house. You dont need that house. If you came in to work and told your boss you were moving to south Arlington, Woodbridge, Springfield, Burke, silver spring, PG, would your salary change? You want to be in an affluent, close in neighborhood, so you choose to pay more for that. If I choose to buy an 850k unicorn horn with a high income, that doesn't make me middle class just because it isn't something people "cite when they think of someone with a high income". I chose to buy it, I had the money to pay for it, which means I now have less money left for other things, but it doesn't magically make me middle class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Actually, an 850k house in an affluent neighborhood is exactly what most people cite when they think of someone with a higher income (it is also very tangible, by the way). To your main point - you have many choices, you chose an 850k house. You dont need that house. If you came in to work and told your boss you were moving to south Arlington, Woodbridge, Springfield, Burke, silver spring, PG, would your salary change? You want to be in an affluent, close in neighborhood, so you choose to pay more for that. If I choose to buy an 850k unicorn horn with a high income, that doesn't make me middle class just because it isn't something people "cite when they think of someone with a high income". I chose to buy it, I had the money to pay for it, which means I now have less money left for other things, but it doesn't magically make me middle class.

Again, this line of reasoning is highly hypocritical. You can say the same thing about just any other group making above the median income in the DC area and declare that they are therefore not middle class. This is clearly not the case. Even as the upper middle class group enjoy marginally better quality of life, their life style is similar and they can closely relate to other people in the middle class. My rich Iranian friend with family wealth cannot relate to the middle class - she is smart and knows that she can't, so she doesn't make an ass out of herself. She knows she lives a sheltered life. She works at a non-profit to keep herself busy, she doesn't need the income. She has no interest in the current interest rates because she can pay for a house, any house, with cash. Her kids go to private school, the cost of which is so inconsequential they might as well be free. She has a driver who take the kids to/from school daily. And it seems she's on vacation at least half of the time. No upper middle class person lives like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Actually, an 850k house in an affluent neighborhood is exactly what most people cite when they think of someone with a higher income (it is also very tangible, by the way). To your main point - you have many choices, you chose an 850k house. You dont need that house. If you came in to work and told your boss you were moving to south Arlington, Woodbridge, Springfield, Burke, silver spring, PG, would your salary change? You want to be in an affluent, close in neighborhood, so you choose to pay more for that. If I choose to buy an 850k unicorn horn with a high income, that doesn't make me middle class just because it isn't something people "cite when they think of someone with a high income". I chose to buy it, I had the money to pay for it, which means I now have less money left for other things, but it doesn't magically make me middle class.

I agree with this 100%!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Actually, an 850k house in an affluent neighborhood is exactly what most people cite when they think of someone with a higher income (it is also very tangible, by the way). To your main point - you have many choices, you chose an 850k house. You dont need that house. If you came in to work and told your boss you were moving to south Arlington, Woodbridge, Springfield, Burke, silver spring, PG, would your salary change? You want to be in an affluent, close in neighborhood, so you choose to pay more for that. If I choose to buy an 850k unicorn horn with a high income, that doesn't make me middle class just because it isn't something people "cite when they think of someone with a high income". I chose to buy it, I had the money to pay for it, which means I now have less money left for other things, but it doesn't magically make me middle class.

Again, this line of reasoning is highly hypocritical. You can say the same thing about just any other group making above the median income in the DC area and declare that they are therefore not middle class. This is clearly not the case. Even as the upper middle class group enjoy marginally better quality of life, their life style is similar and they can closely relate to other people in the middle class. My rich Iranian friend with family wealth cannot relate to the middle class - she is smart and knows that she can't, so she doesn't make an ass out of herself. She knows she lives a sheltered life. She works at a non-profit to keep herself busy, she doesn't need the income. She has no interest in the current interest rates because she can pay for a house, any house, with cash. Her kids go to private school, the cost of which is so inconsequential they might as well be free. She has a driver who take the kids to/from school daily. And it seems she's on vacation at least half of the time. No upper middle class person lives like this.

I'm pretty sure I can't "closely relate" to you! There is no way in hell we could afford a house that costs 850k in a close suburb!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't get it. What is "middle class" if not a lifestyle? If you live in a modest home and send your kids to public school and drive a Hyundai and save for retirement and college and don't expect to ever live off your "wealth," what are you? Housing, child care, and student loans eat up an enormous amount of money. I think it's BS to say that someone living in a 4,000 sq. ft new house on two acres outside of Houston and driving two new European cars on a $150K salary is 'middle class' but someone living in a 1,500 sq ft 60-year-old Cape on 1/5 acre in south Arlington and driving two Hondas on $300K is 'upper class.'

We're doing this on 90k. What are you doing wrong?

So your mortgage is $4000 with a takehome of $7500 before taxes? How do you do that on $90k?

Different PP here. The point is that while you live a middle class lifestyle that is only because you have chosen to commit a large part of your income to luxuries. You can do the same in a house with a $2000 mortgage, but you choose to live in an area where the housing prices are higher, probably because of a strong public school system. That is a luxury, one that the true middle class cannot afford. You chose more expensive child care because you had the means to do so, that's a luxury. Most true middle class cannot afford an expensive nanny or daycare center. If they don't have extended family to watch their children, they choose a less expensive in-home daycare or perhaps a non-resident nanny/babysitter who they can pay less. The middle class cannot afford to buy in Arlington, cannot afford daycare centers and make a number of other sacrifices that you don't have to make because you are not middle class. You may not be rich, but you are affluent, e.g. above upper middle class. In Arlington, the middle class is around $75K to $150K, so upper middle class is around $125-150K. You make more money than 95% of the area, so you aren't middle of anything other than middle of the top 10% of annual incomes in your region. You spend it on luxuries so you don't have as much disposable income, but you still get to spend it on things that the true middle class cannot afford.

Did you read my post? I said I live in a small, old house on a tiny lot and drive older, cheaper cars. Other people, who make what you consider a middle class salary but live in a place with a lower cost of living, can actually afford many luxuries that people living around DC cannot, including much better housing. I'm not saying I'm scraping by. But our standard of living is not really better -- unless you are seriously arguing that living in Arlington is in and of itself a "luxury" -- than what people would consider "middle class."

Again, the daycare example--just because it costs more here doesn't mean its better. The center-based daycare in an old church basement that my kids went to here costs almost twice as much as the one my in-laws send their kids to, which is in a brand-new building. I have to spend way more of my income to get the same thing that people in other parts of the country get for half the price. If I make more money than someone who meets your definition of middle class, but I have to pay more for housing, day care, gas, food etc because of where I live so I end up in the same place, why am I "upper class" and they are "middle class"?

Did you read my post? Yes, when you live in a more desirable area, then by supply and demand, the price and costs are higher. Arlington is more desirable than Burke or Springfield or Newington because it is closer in. The commute into DC is much shorter and people who work downtown will pay a premium to be closer to work. You are competing with people who want the convenience of living closer to work downtown who make more money and can drive the prices up. If you made $125K could you afford even your tiny house in Arlington? No. Once again, living in a high cost of living area like Arlington is a luxury. You complain about having a small church basement daycare that is more expensive than a exurban daycare in a brand-new building. But the point is that only people that can afford that expensive part of town for a small house and a church basement daycare can even consider living there. There is no way that a true middle class person can even consider buying a home in Arlington and being able to afford childcare in that area.

You spend your money on the convenience of living close to DC and especially if you live in N Arlington, for the benefit of good schools, too. You have the means to choose that (or choose to go for more bang for the buck somewhere cheaper). The true middle class has fewer options and those do not include what you have chosen.

Fine, but you're saying that choice and time (time not spent commuting) are what I'm spending my money on. Those aren't tangible luxuries, which are what people usually cite when they think of someone with a higher income ("you could just go to Starbucks less often" "you don't need to drive a Mercedes"). I don't go to Starbucks or drive a Mercedes, but I have a 30-minute commute. There is a big disconnect between how people perceive that income and what it actually buys you in a high cost of living area.

Actually, an 850k house in an affluent neighborhood is exactly what most people cite when they think of someone with a higher income (it is also very tangible, by the way). To your main point - you have many choices, you chose an 850k house. You dont need that house. If you came in to work and told your boss you were moving to south Arlington, Woodbridge, Springfield, Burke, silver spring, PG, would your salary change? You want to be in an affluent, close in neighborhood, so you choose to pay more for that. If I choose to buy an 850k unicorn horn with a high income, that doesn't make me middle class just because it isn't something people "cite when they think of someone with a high income". I chose to buy it, I had the money to pay for it, which means I now have less money left for other things, but it doesn't magically make me middle class.

I don't live in an 850K house, I live in a 600K 2 bedroom cape in south Arlington, on 1/6 of an acre, and commute 3 miles to the Metro because we live in an area that is as far as you can be in Arlington from either Orange or Blue. But our HHI is almost $300K, so apparently we are just one step away from Donald Trump.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Even as the upper middle class group enjoy marginally better quality of life, their life style is similar and they can closely relate to other people in the middle class.

I don't think the $250,000 doesn't get you very far" types can really relate to people in the actual middle class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Actually, an 850k house in an affluent neighborhood is exactly what most people cite when they think of someone with a higher income (it is also very tangible, by the way). To your main point - you have many choices, you chose an 850k house. You dont need that house. If you came in to work and told your boss you were moving to south Arlington, Woodbridge, Springfield, Burke, silver spring, PG, would your salary change? You want to be in an affluent, close in neighborhood, so you choose to pay more for that. If I choose to buy an 850k unicorn horn with a high income, that doesn't make me middle class just because it isn't something people "cite when they think of someone with a high income". I chose to buy it, I had the money to pay for it, which means I now have less money left for other things, but it doesn't magically make me middle class.

Again, this line of reasoning is highly hypocritical. You can say the same thing about just any other group making above the median income in the DC area and declare that they are therefore not middle class. This is clearly not the case. Even as the upper middle class group enjoy marginally better quality of life, their life style is similar and they can closely relate to other people in the middle class. My rich Iranian friend with family wealth cannot relate to the middle class - she is smart and knows that she can't, so she doesn't make an ass out of herself. She knows she lives a sheltered life. She works at a non-profit to keep herself busy, she doesn't need the income. She has no interest in the current interest rates because she can pay for a house, any house, with cash. Her kids go to private school, the cost of which is so inconsequential they might as well be free. She has a driver who take the kids to/from school daily. And it seems she's on vacation at least half of the time. No upper middle class person lives like this.

Oh, good, we are back to the "I know someone way richer, and I am not that rich, so I middle class" argument. At 300k you make more than double the top end of any real middle class income, even for this area. Top 5% is not the middle. I don't care that you "can relate" to people making a middle class income or that you make some similar lifestyle choices. The fact is you have an income that allows you choices and a lifestyle not available to the true middle class. Even in this area. You could lead a truly middle class. If you can live their lifestyle and save more than they make, you are not the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Did you read my post? Yes, when you live in a more desirable area, then by supply and demand, the price and costs are higher. Arlington is more desirable than Burke or Springfield or Newington because it is closer in. The commute into DC is much shorter and people who work downtown will pay a premium to be closer to work. You are competing with people who want the convenience of living closer to work downtown who make more money and can drive the prices up. If you made $125K could you afford even your tiny house in Arlington? No. Once again, living in a high cost of living area like Arlington is a luxury. You complain about having a small church basement daycare that is more expensive than a exurban daycare in a brand-new building. But the point is that only people that can afford that expensive part of town for a small house and a church basement daycare can even consider living there. There is no way that a true middle class person can even consider buying a home in Arlington and being able to afford childcare in that area.

You spend your money on the convenience of living close to DC and especially if you live in N Arlington, for the benefit of good schools, too. You have the means to choose that (or choose to go for more bang for the buck somewhere cheaper). The true middle class has fewer options and those do not include what you have chosen.

Fine, but you're saying that choice and time (time not spent commuting) are what I'm spending my money on. Those aren't tangible luxuries, which are what people usually cite when they think of someone with a higher income ("you could just go to Starbucks less often" "you don't need to drive a Mercedes"). I don't go to Starbucks or drive a Mercedes, but I have a 30-minute commute. There is a big disconnect between how people perceive that income and what it actually buys you in a high cost of living area.

I'm the PP that you're quoting (the other replies have been from other PPs).

No, I'm saying that you are spending your money on a more popular item. You are paying for a high-demand item and the premium for that is a higher price. It's a tangible commodity because when you go to sell, it will also rate a higher price due to that high demand. And it is most definitely a perceived benefit of being more affluent. Just look around the DCUM fora. People who live in Arlington are noted as being more affluent than those who live in Wheaton or Greenbelt or Ft Washington. In general, if you own property in Arlington, you are more well off than people who own in these other communities, because it's recognized that you live in a more popular in-demand area that costs more. The true middle class is only living in those areas if they rent or own much smaller (like condos). It's just the nature of what a dollar will buy. Everyone would love the pipe dream of owning a $450K SFH in Arlington, but that just doesn't exist. So for the true middle class, those making under $150K, unless they have some external source of income (like family money), they aren't buying SFH in Arlington; that just isn't an option. So, it becomes recognized that those who do have SFH in Arlington are more affluent than the middle class. Part of the premium is location (close-in suburb) and some is better schools.

By adding 10 minutes to your commute, you can live in a comparable home for $200K less moving to Alexandria. You could have the same commute time for under $500K by moving to Southeast Washington or Takoma Park. But, you have chosen to pay for "Location, location, location" And that is an easy investment that will pay you back when you sell. You spent more, but you'll also make more when you sell.

So, you choose to purchase a more expensive property and have less disposable income. Again, it's a choice that the true middle class doesn't have. You can no more say that you are middle class because you purchased a house in Arlington, than you can say that you are middle class because after a large stock portfolio, you only have enough disposable income to live a middle class lifestyle.

[Anonymous]

I still do not understand the almost aggressive way DCUMers making $300K want to be called middle class. Why are you not proud of having achieved more than 95% of other people?

That's like telling people your kid with 4.5 GPA is an average student. It doesn't make you seem humble, it makes you seem hopelessly greedy. "I have soooooo much, but I want MORE."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Did you read my post? Yes, when you live in a more desirable area, then by supply and demand, the price and costs are higher. Arlington is more desirable than Burke or Springfield or Newington because it is closer in. The commute into DC is much shorter and people who work downtown will pay a premium to be closer to work. You are competing with people who want the convenience of living closer to work downtown who make more money and can drive the prices up. If you made $125K could you afford even your tiny house in Arlington? No. Once again, living in a high cost of living area like Arlington is a luxury. You complain about having a small church basement daycare that is more expensive than a exurban daycare in a brand-new building. But the point is that only people that can afford that expensive part of town for a small house and a church basement daycare can even consider living there. There is no way that a true middle class person can even consider buying a home in Arlington and being able to afford childcare in that area.

You spend your money on the convenience of living close to DC and especially if you live in N Arlington, for the benefit of good schools, too. You have the means to choose that (or choose to go for more bang for the buck somewhere cheaper). The true middle class has fewer options and those do not include what you have chosen.

Fine, but you're saying that choice and time (time not spent commuting) are what I'm spending my money on. Those aren't tangible luxuries, which are what people usually cite when they think of someone with a higher income ("you could just go to Starbucks less often" "you don't need to drive a Mercedes"). I don't go to Starbucks or drive a Mercedes, but I have a 30-minute commute. There is a big disconnect between how people perceive that income and what it actually buys you in a high cost of living area.

I'm the PP that you're quoting (the other replies have been from other PPs).

No, I'm saying that you are spending your money on a more popular item. You are paying for a high-demand item and the premium for that is a higher price. It's a tangible commodity because when you go to sell, it will also rate a higher price due to that high demand. And it is most definitely a perceived benefit of being more affluent. Just look around the DCUM fora. People who live in Arlington are noted as being more affluent than those who live in Wheaton or Greenbelt or Ft Washington. In general, if you own property in Arlington, you are more well off than people who own in these other communities, because it's recognized that you live in a more popular in-demand area that costs more. The true middle class is only living in those areas if they rent or own much smaller (like condos). It's just the nature of what a dollar will buy. Everyone would love the pipe dream of owning a $450K SFH in Arlington, but that just doesn't exist. So for the true middle class, those making under $150K, unless they have some external source of income (like family money), they aren't buying SFH in Arlington; that just isn't an option. So, it becomes recognized that those who do have SFH in Arlington are more affluent than the middle class. Part of the premium is location (close-in suburb) and some is better schools.

By adding 10 minutes to your commute, you can live in a comparable home for $200K less moving to Alexandria. You could have the same commute time for under $500K by moving to Southeast Washington or Takoma Park. But, you have chosen to pay for "Location, location, location" And that is an easy investment that will pay you back when you sell. You spent more, but you'll also make more when you sell.

So, you choose to purchase a more expensive property and have less disposable income. Again, it's a choice that the true middle class doesn't have. You can no more say that you are middle class because you purchased a house in Arlington, than you can say that you are middle class because after a large stock portfolio, you only have enough disposable income to live a middle class lifestyle.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I still do not understand the almost aggressive way DCUMers making $300K want to be called middle class. Why are you not proud of having achieved more than 95% of other people?

That's like telling people your kid with 4.5 GPA is an average student. It doesn't make you seem humble, it makes you seem hopelessly greedy. "I have soooooo much, but I want MORE."

I don't really get it either. I also don't get why they all sound so dissatisfied with life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still do not understand the almost aggressive way DCUMers making $300K want to be called middle class. Why are you not proud of having achieved more than 95% of other people?

That's like telling people your kid with 4.5 GPA is an average student. It doesn't make you seem humble, it makes you seem hopelessly greedy. "I have soooooo much, but I want MORE."

I don't really get it either. I also don't get why they all sound so dissatisfied with life.

Bad example, 4.5 GPA would be the equivalent of the 1% or higher and most students around here have a 4.5gpa

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still do not understand the almost aggressive way DCUMers making $300K want to be called middle class. Why are you not proud of having achieved more than 95% of other people?

That's like telling people your kid with 4.5 GPA is an average student. It doesn't make you seem humble, it makes you seem hopelessly greedy. "I have soooooo much, but I want MORE."

I don't really get it either. I also don't get why they all sound so dissatisfied with life.

Bad example, 4.5 GPA would be the equivalent of the 1% or higher and most students around here have a 4.5gpa

what the fuck ever. And this isn't PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Did you read my post? Yes, when you live in a more desirable area, then by supply and demand, the price and costs are higher. Arlington is more desirable than Burke or Springfield or Newington because it is closer in. The commute into DC is much shorter and people who work downtown will pay a premium to be closer to work. You are competing with people who want the convenience of living closer to work downtown who make more money and can drive the prices up. If you made $125K could you afford even your tiny house in Arlington? No. Once again, living in a high cost of living area like Arlington is a luxury. You complain about having a small church basement daycare that is more expensive than a exurban daycare in a brand-new building. But the point is that only people that can afford that expensive part of town for a small house and a church basement daycare can even consider living there. There is no way that a true middle class person can even consider buying a home in Arlington and being able to afford childcare in that area.

You spend your money on the convenience of living close to DC and especially if you live in N Arlington, for the benefit of good schools, too. You have the means to choose that (or choose to go for more bang for the buck somewhere cheaper). The true middle class has fewer options and those do not include what you have chosen.

Fine, but you're saying that choice and time (time not spent commuting) are what I'm spending my money on. Those aren't tangible luxuries, which are what people usually cite when they think of someone with a higher income ("you could just go to Starbucks less often" "you don't need to drive a Mercedes"). I don't go to Starbucks or drive a Mercedes, but I have a 30-minute commute. There is a big disconnect between how people perceive that income and what it actually buys you in a high cost of living area.

I'm the PP that you're quoting (the other replies have been from other PPs).

No, I'm saying that you are spending your money on a more popular item. You are paying for a high-demand item and the premium for that is a higher price. It's a tangible commodity because when you go to sell, it will also rate a higher price due to that high demand. And it is most definitely a perceived benefit of being more affluent. Just look around the DCUM fora. People who live in Arlington are noted as being more affluent than those who live in Wheaton or Greenbelt or Ft Washington. In general, if you own property in Arlington, you are more well off than people who own in these other communities, because it's recognized that you live in a more popular in-demand area that costs more. The true middle class is only living in those areas if they rent or own much smaller (like condos). It's just the nature of what a dollar will buy. Everyone would love the pipe dream of owning a $450K SFH in Arlington, but that just doesn't exist. So for the true middle class, those making under $150K, unless they have some external source of income (like family money), they aren't buying SFH in Arlington; that just isn't an option. So, it becomes recognized that those who do have SFH in Arlington are more affluent than the middle class. Part of the premium is location (close-in suburb) and some is better schools.

By adding 10 minutes to your commute, you can live in a comparable home for $200K less moving to Alexandria. You could have the same commute time for under $500K by moving to Southeast Washington or Takoma Park. But, you have chosen to pay for "Location, location, location" And that is an easy investment that will pay you back when you sell. You spent more, but you'll also make more when you sell.

So, you choose to purchase a more expensive property and have less disposable income. Again, it's a choice that the true middle class doesn't have. You can no more say that you are middle class because you purchased a house in Arlington, than you can say that you are middle class because after a large stock portfolio, you only have enough disposable income to live a middle class lifestyle.

Sorry, your perspective is still totally skewed, if your example of an affordable house is $500K. That will buy you a huge house and lots of land almost anywhere else in the county, certainly anywhere not in a city or along a coast. The cost of living here is different and the incomes needed to maintain a middle class existence are different.