Breaking up with my toxic mom group (Ashley Tisdale essay)

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Stupid question: Does this mom’s group get together without their kids?

Yes it sounds like they mostly got together without kids -- dinners out, spa trips, weekends away, etc. These are all wealthy women with nannies so it's not like they were SAHMs forming the group so they had people to talk to at the playground with their kids 5 days a week. It was just a friend group, but everyone in it was a mom with young kids so they had that in common.

Is this common? Do the people here saying they had a similar dynamic also have “mom groups” that the kids aren’t involved in? It seems so unusual to me.

Do you have any friends at all? What is so unusual about “moms” hanging out? They are people with children who happen to get together.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Hilary Duff's husband just responded lol

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/comments/1q61jgw/matthew_koma_hilary_duffs_husband_getting_in_on/

Oh, this is how you know Tisdale is spot on in diagnosing this group as toxic. Look how *invested* Hilary's loser husband is in some petty ass drama. Huge red flag.

The biggest Queen B I've ever encountered, through a hobby I was involved in, had an attack dog, er, *husband* like this. He'd spread rumors about the women in the hobby that his wife viewed as threats or didn't like for whatever reason. Like he'd talk $hit about some woman he barely knew while having drinks with this group, just because his wife had told him privately that said woman was "jealous" of her. It was so deeply immature.

I abandoned that group for a whole host of reasons but one of them was that my DH very quickly recognized how toxic they were and was like "uh, I do not want to hang out with these people." He's a very stand up guy and a good judge of character, and could see the writing on the wall well before I could. So glad I'm not married to a messy b***h who loves drama instead.

Can I be the devil's advocate for a minute?

I'm a woman with two teen daughters, so my husband has heard of/seen some drama over the years. The only times he's gotten upset are when something was said that wasn't true. If someone acted like a jerk (or a toxic person if you want to tie it to this), then his reaction would mostly be well you made your bed so now go lie in it. However, when someone didn't actually do anything but nonetheless was treated poorly by someone, that's when he would have a reaction. (He didn't go on Twitter or wherever this husband did obviously).

So what I'm saying is that yes, it's possible that Hilary's husband is just as toxic as she has been accused of being and he's furthering her agenda. But it's also possible that the reverse is true and he thinks what's being said is untrue and unfair and that's why he's mad. Just my two cents. I don't know which one is true because I don't know him and I assume you don't either. I just don't think you know which one it is. I mean, someone ain't telling the truth here.

Can your husband use his big boy words to set the record straight or would he photoshop his head on your friend's body and post about it on social media?

I agree with you, the method by which her husband went about responding was childish/tasteless/whatever. Ashley did post her original essay on social media, I think (before the article?), so I think they are all social media whores to a certain extent. Not excusing what he did, it was not classy, but that seems to be their medium (which I don't get, but I'm 46 and not into social media, I think most of it is trash).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hilary Duff's husband just responded lol

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/comments/1q61jgw/matthew_koma_hilary_duffs_husband_getting_in_on/

Oh, this is how you know Tisdale is spot on in diagnosing this group as toxic. Look how *invested* Hilary's loser husband is in some petty ass drama. Huge red flag.

The biggest Queen B I've ever encountered, through a hobby I was involved in, had an attack dog, er, *husband* like this. He'd spread rumors about the women in the hobby that his wife viewed as threats or didn't like for whatever reason. Like he'd talk $hit about some woman he barely knew while having drinks with this group, just because his wife had told him privately that said woman was "jealous" of her. It was so deeply immature.

I abandoned that group for a whole host of reasons but one of them was that my DH very quickly recognized how toxic they were and was like "uh, I do not want to hang out with these people." He's a very stand up guy and a good judge of character, and could see the writing on the wall well before I could. So glad I'm not married to a messy b***h who loves drama instead.

Can I be the devil's advocate for a minute?

I'm a woman with two teen daughters, so my husband has heard of/seen some drama over the years. The only times he's gotten upset are when something was said that wasn't true. If someone acted like a jerk (or a toxic person if you want to tie it to this), then his reaction would mostly be well you made your bed so now go lie in it. However, when someone didn't actually do anything but nonetheless was treated poorly by someone, that's when he would have a reaction. (He didn't go on Twitter or wherever this husband did obviously).

So what I'm saying is that yes, it's possible that Hilary's husband is just as toxic as she has been accused of being and he's furthering her agenda. But it's also possible that the reverse is true and he thinks what's being said is untrue and unfair and that's why he's mad. Just my two cents. I don't know which one is true because I don't know him and I assume you don't either. I just don't think you know which one it is. I mean, someone ain't telling the truth here.

This would be compelling if Ashley Tisdale had published an essay about how Hillary Duff is a bad person or had done XYZ. That's not what happened.

Tisdale's essay was about her own experience. She doesn't name names. And most of the article is not even a criticism of the specific behavior of any particular woman, but more an indictment of certain friend dynamics where people are passive aggressive about conflicts and just exclude someone and then lie about it or claim it was an accident. So at least from the essay, you wouldn't get the sense that any of these women had done something super aggressive or mean to Tisdale, but more that Tisdale had just been excluded from the group in a passive aggressive way which is not the most mature or kind way to deal with a conflict with a friend.

So actually I feel VERY comfortable saying that Duff's husband's post, in which he photoshopped his own head onto Tisdale's body and then calls Tisdale, personally, tone deaf and attention seeking, was completely out of line and mostly just serves to make a lot of us who were like "huh I wonder who that's about, I guess it could be one of these famous women but also maybe not" to think "oh Hillary Duff is a mean girl Queen B and her husband apparently is too." Like this in no way defends his wife from criticism and instead just proves they are petty and mean.

That's fair. I was more reacting to the fact that the PP said that it was disgraceful that her husband was involved at all but I could see my husband wanting to take up for me if he thought I was wronged by someone (which he would not do if he thought I was guilty of or at least a party to what had happened). But my husband would not post an altered picture on social media (or make a social media post at all, he doesn't have accounts).

I do think sometimes the husbands of reality TV stars do want to stand up for their wives and sometimes have done so in respectful ways. I think that's fine, and I don't think it's ridiculous for them to want to defend their wives when they feel they've been wronged. But I'll give you that the way he did this was gross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hilary Duff's husband just responded lol

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/comments/1q61jgw/matthew_koma_hilary_duffs_husband_getting_in_on/

Oh, this is how you know Tisdale is spot on in diagnosing this group as toxic. Look how *invested* Hilary's loser husband is in some petty ass drama. Huge red flag.

The biggest Queen B I've ever encountered, through a hobby I was involved in, had an attack dog, er, *husband* like this. He'd spread rumors about the women in the hobby that his wife viewed as threats or didn't like for whatever reason. Like he'd talk $hit about some woman he barely knew while having drinks with this group, just because his wife had told him privately that said woman was "jealous" of her. It was so deeply immature.

I abandoned that group for a whole host of reasons but one of them was that my DH very quickly recognized how toxic they were and was like "uh, I do not want to hang out with these people." He's a very stand up guy and a good judge of character, and could see the writing on the wall well before I could. So glad I'm not married to a messy b***h who loves drama instead.

Can I be the devil's advocate for a minute?

I'm a woman with two teen daughters, so my husband has heard of/seen some drama over the years. The only times he's gotten upset are when something was said that wasn't true. If someone acted like a jerk (or a toxic person if you want to tie it to this), then his reaction would mostly be well you made your bed so now go lie in it. However, when someone didn't actually do anything but nonetheless was treated poorly by someone, that's when he would have a reaction. (He didn't go on Twitter or wherever this husband did obviously).

So what I'm saying is that yes, it's possible that Hilary's husband is just as toxic as she has been accused of being and he's furthering her agenda. But it's also possible that the reverse is true and he thinks what's being said is untrue and unfair and that's why he's mad. Just my two cents. I don't know which one is true because I don't know him and I assume you don't either. I just don't think you know which one it is. I mean, someone ain't telling the truth here.

Can your husband use his big boy words to set the record straight or would he photoshop his head on your friend's body and post about it on social media?

This. Hillary's husband's post is meaner than literally anything Tisdale said in her essay, plus her essay was not about any particular woman whereas the husband's post is a direct attack on Tisdale. Childish and totally unnecessary. And they have kids? Good freaking luck with that.

What did he say? Just that she was tone deaf?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stupid question: Does this mom’s group get together without their kids?

Yes it sounds like they mostly got together without kids -- dinners out, spa trips, weekends away, etc. These are all wealthy women with nannies so it's not like they were SAHMs forming the group so they had people to talk to at the playground with their kids 5 days a week. It was just a friend group, but everyone in it was a mom with young kids so they had that in common.

Is this common? Do the people here saying they had a similar dynamic also have “mom groups” that the kids aren’t involved in? It seems so unusual to me.

Do you have any friends at all? What is so unusual about “moms” hanging out? They are people with children who happen to get together.

NP

I have friend they do not move in groups, they are lot a herd.

when I go out with the "mom's from the soccer team" i'm still just with 1-2 friends within the group.

the group dynamic is not the norm. it's odd.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:What I got from that is that social media caused all the toxicity. Without Instagram she would have no idea who was hanging with who and that she wasn't invited. And basically all the anxiety I have with other women also stems from some variation of this: "there they are, all hanging out and didn't invite me. What did I do wrong?"
I hate it so much. Currently dreading logging onto Facebook to post family pictures my mother keep hounding me about because I know I'll see something like this.

That certainly makes it easier to find out. But even in the old days, it would usually get back to someone that a gathering was planned or took place without them. The social dynamics of a large group based on loose connections can be weird, and not being invited doesn't always mean you did something wrong.

In the old days it was considered the height of poor manners to talk about a party to someone who wasn't invited. If it got back to someone it was because someone screwed up. Nowadays a party isn't really a party if pictures of all the guests aren't posted for the world to peruse.

Not where I came from. You learned early that sometimes there are parties and you won’t be included. Maybe it’s small, maybe it’s family, there are many reasons.

It’s toxic to teach your children to kept secrets and walk in egg shells to control others feelings.

Teach them not everything is about them and have many and diverse friends groups.

I'm not sure why you're referring to children. The article was about adult women. And I'm not going to waver that it's rude to post every "mom's night out" to an audience that includes people who for whatever reason may feel that they warranted an invitation. No one is impressed and some people are hurt. There's literally no upside. Send the photos to the women who were present.

+1 on posting the photos. It's cringe behavior that I will admit to having done when I was younger. People do it to project a certain image of themselves, and potentially also to make people jealous. The more secure I am in myself, the less I feel the need to do this. Even now, when I feel the urge to post a photo like this, I recognize it's usually an expression of insecurity.

I do think that groups that do this - especially women in their 40s and 50s - know exactly what they are doing and they do it for themselves. It's about their own self-confidence and, as you said, their insecurity. And they even do it about their children - there's a group from my kids' elementary school that constantly posts pictures of their outings, of their teens together, etc...

Let me ask you this, out of curiosity (I have no dog in this fight as I don't post anything on social media and haven't for many years) - do you think there is any way someone could post a picture of themselves with friends or a picture of their kids or a picture of their family on vacation without "knowing exactly what they're doing" and being insecure and trying to hurt people? Because I have some friends who do post on social media and I have never gotten that vibe from them. They just seem happy to share aspects of their lives with their friends and family and I really don't think they're doing it to harm anyone.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Tisdale’s article appeared on my newsfeed today right next to the headlines about Tatiana schlossberg’s funeral and untimely death from aggressive cancer. A stark contrast and a reminder of how completely asinine and unimportant this entire topic is. It’s pedantic that cliques exist amongst grown adults and attention and validation seeking that tisdale would write an article about it. People lack perspective on what’s important in life.

Of course it seems unimportant compared to someone dying at a young age from cancer. 99% of this website is unimportant compared to that.

But friendships, finding support as a mom, and just generally having community are actually very important.

Which you can do without the friend “group” angle. Your own mom, or other women who have raised kids and share their wisdom and advice, coworkers, one-on-one friends. There’s so many ways to have the support and community, without the “group” part of it.

Many, many women find themselves in Mom groups. They want to know other moms in the neighborhood with babies the same age. This isn't remotely weird or odd.

The “group” idea is odd. Most people find 1-2 people they like in a group.

In a class of people you find 1-2 friends.
On a sports team you find 1-2 friends.
At work you find 1-2 friends.

The idea you will find a group where every single person is close friends is not real life.

Ok? But in that group are people pointedly excluding you, being weird and sitting you far away from the rest of the group, making plans in front of you? We don't all have to be friends but some of these women went out of their way to be jerks. It's not that hard to be nice at a kid's birthday party and not you know, invite all the other girlies for something like a brunch the next day in front of the hostess and not include her.

In a class we break into groups and yes I’m not part of every group. In school at lunch the lunch tables are harder to join than sororities. I’m not invited to every study group. In sports I’m not always invited to get food after practice, I don’t sit with certain people at pre-game dinners.

I go to birthday parties and don’t talk to every parent.

Your taking this not talk about something too far. It reminds me of the movie Booksmart where nobody’s allowed to talk about what school they got into because it might hurt somebody’s feelings.

Here’s the reality people are doing things without you. Some people have more money than you. Some people go on vacation vacations with friends and you’re not invited. You’re not invited to every brunch.

Find your one or two friends and do something with them.

Oh please. This is about what Ashley wrote. If you want to talk about your own personal groups do that elsewhere. What she described sucks.

We are in the relationship forum not the entertainment forum. This is talking about women groups in general.

Ashley, just needs to relax. People are mean I could write 20 articles about mean women I’ve met in the DC area.

Really? It’s not new. It’s not interesting.

Exactly. She wrote this article like she was me too’d. The mom group sounds like a cult. Just make a few friends and stop referring to yourself as a group.

One of my kids had a small preschool pod that was together for a few years. Us mom in the group bonded. We love seeing each other and some of our kids do some activities together, we have a what’s app group and sometimes get dinner. But some individuals are closer to each other than others and we all have other friends. What tisdale is whining about seems so immature. She’s 40 years old and doesn’t need her friend group to be everything in life, and even weirder to use her kids as a vehicle for it.

Sounds a bit hypocritical coming from someone with a group based around preschoolers. Find your own friends and leave the kids out if it.

We don’t have a “group.” We like each other and stay in touch and get dinner sometimes. We all have our own lives and friends outside of it and there’s no “Queen bee” dynamic.

The irritating parts of this saga are:

- grown women acting like they’re in middle school and having a “clique” that does everything together
- grown women behaving like their life revolves around said clique
- rejected clique member feeling so infuriated by her self proclaimed “drama” that they feel the need to expose it on a public way.

Hilary duff and Mandy Moore may be catty (who knows? Not me) but tisdale stirring the pot by creating tabloid fodder - all while framing this like a vanity fair assault expose - also tells you a lot about her level of self absorption as a person.

Pp again. And to add to that, I’d say that everything about duff and Mandy Moore is heresay, based on tisdales account. The only thing we actually know for sure is that tisdale is enough of a drama queen to publish this self absorbed, tone deaf article about a saga of her own creation.

I don’t think you can say it’s all just Ashley Tisdale airing random grievances and “what’s the other side of the story” when Hilary Duff’s husband stepped in, guns a blazin. Now Hilary (and her husband) both look kind of crazy and guilty. They could have stayed out of it and the whole thing would have blown over in a day or two, now look what we’re all talking about.

This. The messiest move here has been Duff's husband attacking Ashley directly, basically confirming for everyone that Hillary is part of the "toxic mom group" even as Ashley was denying that there were other famous moms in the group she was talking about.

Also, just a general pet peeve -- there is no "hearsay" here. It's not court. IRL, people can talk about their experiences and you can decide whether or not you trust their account or not, but there's no rule that you can't share things that other people may have said or done to you. Which, by the way, Tisdale didn't even do because she doesn't even say who any of the moms in her mom group were and she's not actually accusing anyone of anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hilary Duff's husband just responded lol

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/comments/1q61jgw/matthew_koma_hilary_duffs_husband_getting_in_on/

Oh, this is how you know Tisdale is spot on in diagnosing this group as toxic. Look how *invested* Hilary's loser husband is in some petty ass drama. Huge red flag.

The biggest Queen B I've ever encountered, through a hobby I was involved in, had an attack dog, er, *husband* like this. He'd spread rumors about the women in the hobby that his wife viewed as threats or didn't like for whatever reason. Like he'd talk $hit about some woman he barely knew while having drinks with this group, just because his wife had told him privately that said woman was "jealous" of her. It was so deeply immature.

I abandoned that group for a whole host of reasons but one of them was that my DH very quickly recognized how toxic they were and was like "uh, I do not want to hang out with these people." He's a very stand up guy and a good judge of character, and could see the writing on the wall well before I could. So glad I'm not married to a messy b***h who loves drama instead.

Can I be the devil's advocate for a minute?

I'm a woman with two teen daughters, so my husband has heard of/seen some drama over the years. The only times he's gotten upset are when something was said that wasn't true. If someone acted like a jerk (or a toxic person if you want to tie it to this), then his reaction would mostly be well you made your bed so now go lie in it. However, when someone didn't actually do anything but nonetheless was treated poorly by someone, that's when he would have a reaction. (He didn't go on Twitter or wherever this husband did obviously).

So what I'm saying is that yes, it's possible that Hilary's husband is just as toxic as she has been accused of being and he's furthering her agenda. But it's also possible that the reverse is true and he thinks what's being said is untrue and unfair and that's why he's mad. Just my two cents. I don't know which one is true because I don't know him and I assume you don't either. I just don't think you know which one it is. I mean, someone ain't telling the truth here.

Can your husband use his big boy words to set the record straight or would he photoshop his head on your friend's body and post about it on social media?

This. Hillary's husband's post is meaner than literally anything Tisdale said in her essay, plus her essay was not about any particular woman whereas the husband's post is a direct attack on Tisdale. Childish and totally unnecessary. And they have kids? Good freaking luck with that.

What did he say? Just that she was tone deaf?

He photoshopped his head onto Ashley's body in the picture that accompanied her essay in The Cut, and then he mocked up a fake headline that read: "A Mom Group Tell All Through a Father's Eyes: When You're the Most Self Obsessed Tone Deaf Person on Earth, Other Moms Tend to Shift Focus to Their Actual Toddlers."

I would link to it be he appears to have taken it down.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Tisdale’s article appeared on my newsfeed today right next to the headlines about Tatiana schlossberg’s funeral and untimely death from aggressive cancer. A stark contrast and a reminder of how completely asinine and unimportant this entire topic is. It’s pedantic that cliques exist amongst grown adults and attention and validation seeking that tisdale would write an article about it. People lack perspective on what’s important in life.

Of course it seems unimportant compared to someone dying at a young age from cancer. 99% of this website is unimportant compared to that.

But friendships, finding support as a mom, and just generally having community are actually very important.

Which you can do without the friend “group” angle. Your own mom, or other women who have raised kids and share their wisdom and advice, coworkers, one-on-one friends. There’s so many ways to have the support and community, without the “group” part of it.

Many, many women find themselves in Mom groups. They want to know other moms in the neighborhood with babies the same age. This isn't remotely weird or odd.

The “group” idea is odd. Most people find 1-2 people they like in a group.

In a class of people you find 1-2 friends.
On a sports team you find 1-2 friends.
At work you find 1-2 friends.

The idea you will find a group where every single person is close friends is not real life.

Ok? But in that group are people pointedly excluding you, being weird and sitting you far away from the rest of the group, making plans in front of you? We don't all have to be friends but some of these women went out of their way to be jerks. It's not that hard to be nice at a kid's birthday party and not you know, invite all the other girlies for something like a brunch the next day in front of the hostess and not include her.

In a class we break into groups and yes I’m not part of every group. In school at lunch the lunch tables are harder to join than sororities. I’m not invited to every study group. In sports I’m not always invited to get food after practice, I don’t sit with certain people at pre-game dinners.

I go to birthday parties and don’t talk to every parent.

Your taking this not talk about something too far. It reminds me of the movie Booksmart where nobody’s allowed to talk about what school they got into because it might hurt somebody’s feelings.

Here’s the reality people are doing things without you. Some people have more money than you. Some people go on vacation vacations with friends and you’re not invited. You’re not invited to every brunch.

Find your one or two friends and do something with them.

Oh please. This is about what Ashley wrote. If you want to talk about your own personal groups do that elsewhere. What she described sucks.

We are in the relationship forum not the entertainment forum. This is talking about women groups in general.

Ashley, just needs to relax. People are mean I could write 20 articles about mean women I’ve met in the DC area.

Really? It’s not new. It’s not interesting.

Exactly. She wrote this article like she was me too’d. The mom group sounds like a cult. Just make a few friends and stop referring to yourself as a group.

One of my kids had a small preschool pod that was together for a few years. Us mom in the group bonded. We love seeing each other and some of our kids do some activities together, we have a what’s app group and sometimes get dinner. But some individuals are closer to each other than others and we all have other friends. What tisdale is whining about seems so immature. She’s 40 years old and doesn’t need her friend group to be everything in life, and even weirder to use her kids as a vehicle for it.

Sounds a bit hypocritical coming from someone with a group based around preschoolers. Find your own friends and leave the kids out if it.

We don’t have a “group.” We like each other and stay in touch and get dinner sometimes. We all have our own lives and friends outside of it and there’s no “Queen bee” dynamic.

The irritating parts of this saga are:

- grown women acting like they’re in middle school and having a “clique” that does everything together
- grown women behaving like their life revolves around said clique
- rejected clique member feeling so infuriated by her self proclaimed “drama” that they feel the need to expose it on a public way.

Hilary duff and Mandy Moore may be catty (who knows? Not me) but tisdale stirring the pot by creating tabloid fodder - all while framing this like a vanity fair assault expose - also tells you a lot about her level of self absorption as a person.

Pp again. And to add to that, I’d say that everything about duff and Mandy Moore is heresay, based on tisdales account. The only thing we actually know for sure is that tisdale is enough of a drama queen to publish this self absorbed, tone deaf article about a saga of her own creation.

Tisdale said nothing about mandy or Hilary but you clearly have an axe to grind. Why are you so mad?

I have no axe to grind. Just find the whole thing so sophomoric and was trying to put my finger on why I feel that way.

You’re not really making any deep insights here. Ashley said it was stupid and highschoolish and when she finally realized what was going on and how it made her feel, got out of it. Sometimes people just get caught up in things and with babies and a new phase of life maybe wasn’t being as clearheaded as she should have been. It resonates with some people and not with others. But it’s weird that people keep coming back in here to tell everyone how they just don’t get it and can’t figure it out. I’m not divorced but I don’t need to go into divorce threads telling people I just get why everyone can’t get along because I’m happily married.

When she decided to leave she sent a mean and stupid text to the group. That's not the work of a grown up. I think they all sound awful, honestly.

I know people who have gotten divorced and have hurt their children in the process but acting like idiots. I'll never understand that, not because I'm a better person than that but because I can't fathom it. Just like some people can't fathom getting hurt over social media posts, engaging in a dynamic that was clearly toxic for years, etc. To some people, this whole thing makes no sense. I don't know why that bothers you so much.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Stupid question: Does this mom’s group get together without their kids?

Yes it sounds like they mostly got together without kids -- dinners out, spa trips, weekends away, etc. These are all wealthy women with nannies so it's not like they were SAHMs forming the group so they had people to talk to at the playground with their kids 5 days a week. It was just a friend group, but everyone in it was a mom with young kids so they had that in common.

Is this common? Do the people here saying they had a similar dynamic also have “mom groups” that the kids aren’t involved in? It seems so unusual to me.

Do you have any friends at all? What is so unusual about “moms” hanging out? They are people with children who happen to get together.

NP

I have friend they do not move in groups, they are lot a herd.

when I go out with the "mom's from the soccer team" i'm still just with 1-2 friends within the group.

the group dynamic is not the norm. it's odd.

Not PP but I have various groups of women I'm friends with. Some are from high school (I grew up on the west coast so I don't live where I went to high school), some are from college, some from grad school, some from various jobs, some from my neighborhood, some are moms of my kids' friends. We don't have defined boundaries for those groups (except for the college one, we have a core group who has consistently gotten together over the last 25 years), but we do hang out in groups of more than 1 or 2 people. And sometimes the groups change when people move or their live is different or they just move on. It's never been tpxic, but I do understand groups of moms who text and hang out and I don't think that's weird? But then again, I find this group to be weird in their behavior so clearly everyone just has different experiences.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Tisdale’s article appeared on my newsfeed today right next to the headlines about Tatiana schlossberg’s funeral and untimely death from aggressive cancer. A stark contrast and a reminder of how completely asinine and unimportant this entire topic is. It’s pedantic that cliques exist amongst grown adults and attention and validation seeking that tisdale would write an article about it. People lack perspective on what’s important in life.

Of course it seems unimportant compared to someone dying at a young age from cancer. 99% of this website is unimportant compared to that.

But friendships, finding support as a mom, and just generally having community are actually very important.

Which you can do without the friend “group” angle. Your own mom, or other women who have raised kids and share their wisdom and advice, coworkers, one-on-one friends. There’s so many ways to have the support and community, without the “group” part of it.

Many, many women find themselves in Mom groups. They want to know other moms in the neighborhood with babies the same age. This isn't remotely weird or odd.

The “group” idea is odd. Most people find 1-2 people they like in a group.

In a class of people you find 1-2 friends.
On a sports team you find 1-2 friends.
At work you find 1-2 friends.

The idea you will find a group where every single person is close friends is not real life.

Ok? But in that group are people pointedly excluding you, being weird and sitting you far away from the rest of the group, making plans in front of you? We don't all have to be friends but some of these women went out of their way to be jerks. It's not that hard to be nice at a kid's birthday party and not you know, invite all the other girlies for something like a brunch the next day in front of the hostess and not include her.

In a class we break into groups and yes I’m not part of every group. In school at lunch the lunch tables are harder to join than sororities. I’m not invited to every study group. In sports I’m not always invited to get food after practice, I don’t sit with certain people at pre-game dinners.

I go to birthday parties and don’t talk to every parent.

Your taking this not talk about something too far. It reminds me of the movie Booksmart where nobody’s allowed to talk about what school they got into because it might hurt somebody’s feelings.

Here’s the reality people are doing things without you. Some people have more money than you. Some people go on vacation vacations with friends and you’re not invited. You’re not invited to every brunch.

Find your one or two friends and do something with them.

Oh please. This is about what Ashley wrote. If you want to talk about your own personal groups do that elsewhere. What she described sucks.

We are in the relationship forum not the entertainment forum. This is talking about women groups in general.

Ashley, just needs to relax. People are mean I could write 20 articles about mean women I’ve met in the DC area.

Really? It’s not new. It’s not interesting.

Exactly. She wrote this article like she was me too’d. The mom group sounds like a cult. Just make a few friends and stop referring to yourself as a group.

One of my kids had a small preschool pod that was together for a few years. Us mom in the group bonded. We love seeing each other and some of our kids do some activities together, we have a what’s app group and sometimes get dinner. But some individuals are closer to each other than others and we all have other friends. What tisdale is whining about seems so immature. She’s 40 years old and doesn’t need her friend group to be everything in life, and even weirder to use her kids as a vehicle for it.

Sounds a bit hypocritical coming from someone with a group based around preschoolers. Find your own friends and leave the kids out if it.

We don’t have a “group.” We like each other and stay in touch and get dinner sometimes. We all have our own lives and friends outside of it and there’s no “Queen bee” dynamic.

The irritating parts of this saga are:

- grown women acting like they’re in middle school and having a “clique” that does everything together
- grown women behaving like their life revolves around said clique
- rejected clique member feeling so infuriated by her self proclaimed “drama” that they feel the need to expose it on a public way.

Hilary duff and Mandy Moore may be catty (who knows? Not me) but tisdale stirring the pot by creating tabloid fodder - all while framing this like a vanity fair assault expose - also tells you a lot about her level of self absorption as a person.

Pp again. And to add to that, I’d say that everything about duff and Mandy Moore is heresay, based on tisdales account. The only thing we actually know for sure is that tisdale is enough of a drama queen to publish this self absorbed, tone deaf article about a saga of her own creation.

I don’t think you can say it’s all just Ashley Tisdale airing random grievances and “what’s the other side of the story” when Hilary Duff’s husband stepped in, guns a blazin. Now Hilary (and her husband) both look kind of crazy and guilty. They could have stayed out of it and the whole thing would have blown over in a day or two, now look what we’re all talking about.

This. The messiest move here has been Duff's husband attacking Ashley directly, basically confirming for everyone that Hillary is part of the "toxic mom group" even as Ashley was denying that there were other famous moms in the group she was talking about.

Also, just a general pet peeve -- there is no "hearsay" here. It's not court. IRL, people can talk about their experiences and you can decide whether or not you trust their account or not, but there's no rule that you can't share things that other people may have said or done to you. Which, by the way, Tisdale didn't even do because she doesn't even say who any of the moms in her mom group were and she's not actually accusing anyone of anything.

Where did she do that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stupid question: Does this mom’s group get together without their kids?

Yes it sounds like they mostly got together without kids -- dinners out, spa trips, weekends away, etc. These are all wealthy women with nannies so it's not like they were SAHMs forming the group so they had people to talk to at the playground with their kids 5 days a week. It was just a friend group, but everyone in it was a mom with young kids so they had that in common.

Is this common? Do the people here saying they had a similar dynamic also have “mom groups” that the kids aren’t involved in? It seems so unusual to me.

Do you have any friends at all? What is so unusual about “moms” hanging out? They are people with children who happen to get together.

NP

I have friend they do not move in groups, they are lot a herd.

when I go out with the "mom's from the soccer team" i'm still just with 1-2 friends within the group.

the group dynamic is not the norm. it's odd.

I guess you need to open your eyes a bit more. These groups are out there, you’re just not in them, or socially aware. Could be groups of moms, neighbors, sports team parents, colleagues who do happy hour together (and don’t invite everyone), church friends, they come in all forms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tisdale’s article appeared on my newsfeed today right next to the headlines about Tatiana schlossberg’s funeral and untimely death from aggressive cancer. A stark contrast and a reminder of how completely asinine and unimportant this entire topic is. It’s pedantic that cliques exist amongst grown adults and attention and validation seeking that tisdale would write an article about it. People lack perspective on what’s important in life.

Of course it seems unimportant compared to someone dying at a young age from cancer. 99% of this website is unimportant compared to that.

But friendships, finding support as a mom, and just generally having community are actually very important.

Which you can do without the friend “group” angle. Your own mom, or other women who have raised kids and share their wisdom and advice, coworkers, one-on-one friends. There’s so many ways to have the support and community, without the “group” part of it.

Many, many women find themselves in Mom groups. They want to know other moms in the neighborhood with babies the same age. This isn't remotely weird or odd.

The “group” idea is odd. Most people find 1-2 people they like in a group.

In a class of people you find 1-2 friends.
On a sports team you find 1-2 friends.
At work you find 1-2 friends.

The idea you will find a group where every single person is close friends is not real life.

Ok? But in that group are people pointedly excluding you, being weird and sitting you far away from the rest of the group, making plans in front of you? We don't all have to be friends but some of these women went out of their way to be jerks. It's not that hard to be nice at a kid's birthday party and not you know, invite all the other girlies for something like a brunch the next day in front of the hostess and not include her.

In a class we break into groups and yes I’m not part of every group. In school at lunch the lunch tables are harder to join than sororities. I’m not invited to every study group. In sports I’m not always invited to get food after practice, I don’t sit with certain people at pre-game dinners.

I go to birthday parties and don’t talk to every parent.

Your taking this not talk about something too far. It reminds me of the movie Booksmart where nobody’s allowed to talk about what school they got into because it might hurt somebody’s feelings.

Here’s the reality people are doing things without you. Some people have more money than you. Some people go on vacation vacations with friends and you’re not invited. You’re not invited to every brunch.

Find your one or two friends and do something with them.

Oh please. This is about what Ashley wrote. If you want to talk about your own personal groups do that elsewhere. What she described sucks.

We are in the relationship forum not the entertainment forum. This is talking about women groups in general.

Ashley, just needs to relax. People are mean I could write 20 articles about mean women I’ve met in the DC area.

Really? It’s not new. It’s not interesting.

Exactly. She wrote this article like she was me too’d. The mom group sounds like a cult. Just make a few friends and stop referring to yourself as a group.

One of my kids had a small preschool pod that was together for a few years. Us mom in the group bonded. We love seeing each other and some of our kids do some activities together, we have a what’s app group and sometimes get dinner. But some individuals are closer to each other than others and we all have other friends. What tisdale is whining about seems so immature. She’s 40 years old and doesn’t need her friend group to be everything in life, and even weirder to use her kids as a vehicle for it.

Sounds a bit hypocritical coming from someone with a group based around preschoolers. Find your own friends and leave the kids out if it.

We don’t have a “group.” We like each other and stay in touch and get dinner sometimes. We all have our own lives and friends outside of it and there’s no “Queen bee” dynamic.

The irritating parts of this saga are:

- grown women acting like they’re in middle school and having a “clique” that does everything together
- grown women behaving like their life revolves around said clique
- rejected clique member feeling so infuriated by her self proclaimed “drama” that they feel the need to expose it on a public way.

Hilary duff and Mandy Moore may be catty (who knows? Not me) but tisdale stirring the pot by creating tabloid fodder - all while framing this like a vanity fair assault expose - also tells you a lot about her level of self absorption as a person.

Pp again. And to add to that, I’d say that everything about duff and Mandy Moore is heresay, based on tisdales account. The only thing we actually know for sure is that tisdale is enough of a drama queen to publish this self absorbed, tone deaf article about a saga of her own creation.

I don’t think you can say it’s all just Ashley Tisdale airing random grievances and “what’s the other side of the story” when Hilary Duff’s husband stepped in, guns a blazin. Now Hilary (and her husband) both look kind of crazy and guilty. They could have stayed out of it and the whole thing would have blown over in a day or two, now look what we’re all talking about.

This. The messiest move here has been Duff's husband attacking Ashley directly, basically confirming for everyone that Hillary is part of the "toxic mom group" even as Ashley was denying that there were other famous moms in the group she was talking about.

Also, just a general pet peeve -- there is no "hearsay" here. It's not court. IRL, people can talk about their experiences and you can decide whether or not you trust their account or not, but there's no rule that you can't share things that other people may have said or done to you. Which, by the way, Tisdale didn't even do because she doesn't even say who any of the moms in her mom group were and she's not actually accusing anyone of anything.

I'm sorry, did you read the article? She's definitely accusing people of being petty, mean, toxic, exclusive, etc. If what she said wasn't bad at all then no one would be talking about it...

[Anonymous]

I think fixating on the "mom" aspect of this is beside the point. This is about women's friendships. Not all women's friendships, but a very specific kind of group friendship that CAN be toxic when women engage in passive aggressive behaviors like excluding, gossiping, teasing, etc.

It is exactly the behavior portrayed in the movie Mean Girls and sadly many women do not outgrow this behavior and some even grow into it as they age.

If you are interested, it's called "relational aggression" and is considered a form of bullying. I have a LOT to say on this subject due to a personal experience years ago that led me to wind up studying it academically. It's real and this whole Ashley Tisdale/Hillary Duff situation is like Relational Aggression 101.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tisdale’s article appeared on my newsfeed today right next to the headlines about Tatiana schlossberg’s funeral and untimely death from aggressive cancer. A stark contrast and a reminder of how completely asinine and unimportant this entire topic is. It’s pedantic that cliques exist amongst grown adults and attention and validation seeking that tisdale would write an article about it. People lack perspective on what’s important in life.

Of course it seems unimportant compared to someone dying at a young age from cancer. 99% of this website is unimportant compared to that.

But friendships, finding support as a mom, and just generally having community are actually very important.

Which you can do without the friend “group” angle. Your own mom, or other women who have raised kids and share their wisdom and advice, coworkers, one-on-one friends. There’s so many ways to have the support and community, without the “group” part of it.

Many, many women find themselves in Mom groups. They want to know other moms in the neighborhood with babies the same age. This isn't remotely weird or odd.

The “group” idea is odd. Most people find 1-2 people they like in a group.

In a class of people you find 1-2 friends.
On a sports team you find 1-2 friends.
At work you find 1-2 friends.

The idea you will find a group where every single person is close friends is not real life.

Ok? But in that group are people pointedly excluding you, being weird and sitting you far away from the rest of the group, making plans in front of you? We don't all have to be friends but some of these women went out of their way to be jerks. It's not that hard to be nice at a kid's birthday party and not you know, invite all the other girlies for something like a brunch the next day in front of the hostess and not include her.

In a class we break into groups and yes I’m not part of every group. In school at lunch the lunch tables are harder to join than sororities. I’m not invited to every study group. In sports I’m not always invited to get food after practice, I don’t sit with certain people at pre-game dinners.

I go to birthday parties and don’t talk to every parent.

Your taking this not talk about something too far. It reminds me of the movie Booksmart where nobody’s allowed to talk about what school they got into because it might hurt somebody’s feelings.

Here’s the reality people are doing things without you. Some people have more money than you. Some people go on vacation vacations with friends and you’re not invited. You’re not invited to every brunch.

Find your one or two friends and do something with them.

Oh please. This is about what Ashley wrote. If you want to talk about your own personal groups do that elsewhere. What she described sucks.

We are in the relationship forum not the entertainment forum. This is talking about women groups in general.

Ashley, just needs to relax. People are mean I could write 20 articles about mean women I’ve met in the DC area.

Really? It’s not new. It’s not interesting.

Exactly. She wrote this article like she was me too’d. The mom group sounds like a cult. Just make a few friends and stop referring to yourself as a group.

One of my kids had a small preschool pod that was together for a few years. Us mom in the group bonded. We love seeing each other and some of our kids do some activities together, we have a what’s app group and sometimes get dinner. But some individuals are closer to each other than others and we all have other friends. What tisdale is whining about seems so immature. She’s 40 years old and doesn’t need her friend group to be everything in life, and even weirder to use her kids as a vehicle for it.

Sounds a bit hypocritical coming from someone with a group based around preschoolers. Find your own friends and leave the kids out if it.

We don’t have a “group.” We like each other and stay in touch and get dinner sometimes. We all have our own lives and friends outside of it and there’s no “Queen bee” dynamic.

The irritating parts of this saga are:

- grown women acting like they’re in middle school and having a “clique” that does everything together
- grown women behaving like their life revolves around said clique
- rejected clique member feeling so infuriated by her self proclaimed “drama” that they feel the need to expose it on a public way.

Hilary duff and Mandy Moore may be catty (who knows? Not me) but tisdale stirring the pot by creating tabloid fodder - all while framing this like a vanity fair assault expose - also tells you a lot about her level of self absorption as a person.

Pp again. And to add to that, I’d say that everything about duff and Mandy Moore is heresay, based on tisdales account. The only thing we actually know for sure is that tisdale is enough of a drama queen to publish this self absorbed, tone deaf article about a saga of her own creation.

I don’t think you can say it’s all just Ashley Tisdale airing random grievances and “what’s the other side of the story” when Hilary Duff’s husband stepped in, guns a blazin. Now Hilary (and her husband) both look kind of crazy and guilty. They could have stayed out of it and the whole thing would have blown over in a day or two, now look what we’re all talking about.

This. The messiest move here has been Duff's husband attacking Ashley directly, basically confirming for everyone that Hillary is part of the "toxic mom group" even as Ashley was denying that there were other famous moms in the group she was talking about.

Also, just a general pet peeve -- there is no "hearsay" here. It's not court. IRL, people can talk about their experiences and you can decide whether or not you trust their account or not, but there's no rule that you can't share things that other people may have said or done to you. Which, by the way, Tisdale didn't even do because she doesn't even say who any of the moms in her mom group were and she's not actually accusing anyone of anything.

I'm sorry, did you read the article? She's definitely accusing people of being petty, mean, toxic, exclusive, etc. If what she said wasn't bad at all then no one would be talking about it...

You have to name names to accuse people. She was purposefully vague. If her former friends recognized themselves they should have just said they don’t know her or have any idea what she’s talking about if asked. Not do what Mr Duff did.