Breaking up with my toxic mom group (Ashley Tisdale essay)

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Hilary Duff's husband just responded lol

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/comments/1q61jgw/matthew_koma_hilary_duffs_husband_getting_in_on/

Oh, this is how you know Tisdale is spot on in diagnosing this group as toxic. Look how *invested* Hilary's loser husband is in some petty ass drama. Huge red flag.

The biggest Queen B I've ever encountered, through a hobby I was involved in, had an attack dog, er, *husband* like this. He'd spread rumors about the women in the hobby that his wife viewed as threats or didn't like for whatever reason. Like he'd talk $hit about some woman he barely knew while having drinks with this group, just because his wife had told him privately that said woman was "jealous" of her. It was so deeply immature.

I abandoned that group for a whole host of reasons but one of them was that my DH very quickly recognized how toxic they were and was like "uh, I do not want to hang out with these people." He's a very stand up guy and a good judge of character, and could see the writing on the wall well before I could. So glad I'm not married to a messy b***h who loves drama instead.

Can I be the devil's advocate for a minute?

I'm a woman with two teen daughters, so my husband has heard of/seen some drama over the years. The only times he's gotten upset are when something was said that wasn't true. If someone acted like a jerk (or a toxic person if you want to tie it to this), then his reaction would mostly be well you made your bed so now go lie in it. However, when someone didn't actually do anything but nonetheless was treated poorly by someone, that's when he would have a reaction. (He didn't go on Twitter or wherever this husband did obviously).

So what I'm saying is that yes, it's possible that Hilary's husband is just as toxic as she has been accused of being and he's furthering her agenda. But it's also possible that the reverse is true and he thinks what's being said is untrue and unfair and that's why he's mad. Just my two cents. I don't know which one is true because I don't know him and I assume you don't either. I just don't think you know which one it is. I mean, someone ain't telling the truth here.

Can your husband use his big boy words to set the record straight or would he photoshop his head on your friend's body and post about it on social media?

This. Hillary's husband's post is meaner than literally anything Tisdale said in her essay, plus her essay was not about any particular woman whereas the husband's post is a direct attack on Tisdale. Childish and totally unnecessary. And they have kids? Good freaking luck with that.

What did he say? Just that she was tone deaf?

He photoshopped his head onto Ashley's body in the picture that accompanied her essay in The Cut, and then he mocked up a fake headline that read: "A Mom Group Tell All Through a Father's Eyes: When You're the Most Self Obsessed Tone Deaf Person on Earth, Other Moms Tend to Shift Focus to Their Actual Toddlers."

I would link to it be he appears to have taken it down.

Got it, thanks. The main difference being that Ashley didn't name names (although I find that to be a pretty weak excuse given that it took people 0.2 seconds to figure out who she was talking about) and he clearly implicated her. I think both side said mean things and acted like children. That doesn't excuse what he did, I'm not a fan of justifying one's behavior based on what "provoked" you, but I also think hiding behind a veil of "well Ashley didn't name names!" is pretty disingenuous. She's not Sally Someone, people know who her friend group was. If I had been in it I would be annoyed by being dragged into this (although of course if I had been toxic I may well have deserved it...)/

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Tisdale’s article appeared on my newsfeed today right next to the headlines about Tatiana schlossberg’s funeral and untimely death from aggressive cancer. A stark contrast and a reminder of how completely asinine and unimportant this entire topic is. It’s pedantic that cliques exist amongst grown adults and attention and validation seeking that tisdale would write an article about it. People lack perspective on what’s important in life.

Of course it seems unimportant compared to someone dying at a young age from cancer. 99% of this website is unimportant compared to that.

But friendships, finding support as a mom, and just generally having community are actually very important.

Which you can do without the friend “group” angle. Your own mom, or other women who have raised kids and share their wisdom and advice, coworkers, one-on-one friends. There’s so many ways to have the support and community, without the “group” part of it.

Many, many women find themselves in Mom groups. They want to know other moms in the neighborhood with babies the same age. This isn't remotely weird or odd.

The “group” idea is odd. Most people find 1-2 people they like in a group.

In a class of people you find 1-2 friends.
On a sports team you find 1-2 friends.
At work you find 1-2 friends.

The idea you will find a group where every single person is close friends is not real life.

Ok? But in that group are people pointedly excluding you, being weird and sitting you far away from the rest of the group, making plans in front of you? We don't all have to be friends but some of these women went out of their way to be jerks. It's not that hard to be nice at a kid's birthday party and not you know, invite all the other girlies for something like a brunch the next day in front of the hostess and not include her.

In a class we break into groups and yes I’m not part of every group. In school at lunch the lunch tables are harder to join than sororities. I’m not invited to every study group. In sports I’m not always invited to get food after practice, I don’t sit with certain people at pre-game dinners.

I go to birthday parties and don’t talk to every parent.

Your taking this not talk about something too far. It reminds me of the movie Booksmart where nobody’s allowed to talk about what school they got into because it might hurt somebody’s feelings.

Here’s the reality people are doing things without you. Some people have more money than you. Some people go on vacation vacations with friends and you’re not invited. You’re not invited to every brunch.

Find your one or two friends and do something with them.

Oh please. This is about what Ashley wrote. If you want to talk about your own personal groups do that elsewhere. What she described sucks.

We are in the relationship forum not the entertainment forum. This is talking about women groups in general.

Ashley, just needs to relax. People are mean I could write 20 articles about mean women I’ve met in the DC area.

Really? It’s not new. It’s not interesting.

Exactly. She wrote this article like she was me too’d. The mom group sounds like a cult. Just make a few friends and stop referring to yourself as a group.

One of my kids had a small preschool pod that was together for a few years. Us mom in the group bonded. We love seeing each other and some of our kids do some activities together, we have a what’s app group and sometimes get dinner. But some individuals are closer to each other than others and we all have other friends. What tisdale is whining about seems so immature. She’s 40 years old and doesn’t need her friend group to be everything in life, and even weirder to use her kids as a vehicle for it.

Sounds a bit hypocritical coming from someone with a group based around preschoolers. Find your own friends and leave the kids out if it.

We don’t have a “group.” We like each other and stay in touch and get dinner sometimes. We all have our own lives and friends outside of it and there’s no “Queen bee” dynamic.

The irritating parts of this saga are:

- grown women acting like they’re in middle school and having a “clique” that does everything together
- grown women behaving like their life revolves around said clique
- rejected clique member feeling so infuriated by her self proclaimed “drama” that they feel the need to expose it on a public way.

Hilary duff and Mandy Moore may be catty (who knows? Not me) but tisdale stirring the pot by creating tabloid fodder - all while framing this like a vanity fair assault expose - also tells you a lot about her level of self absorption as a person.

Pp again. And to add to that, I’d say that everything about duff and Mandy Moore is heresay, based on tisdales account. The only thing we actually know for sure is that tisdale is enough of a drama queen to publish this self absorbed, tone deaf article about a saga of her own creation.

I don’t think you can say it’s all just Ashley Tisdale airing random grievances and “what’s the other side of the story” when Hilary Duff’s husband stepped in, guns a blazin. Now Hilary (and her husband) both look kind of crazy and guilty. They could have stayed out of it and the whole thing would have blown over in a day or two, now look what we’re all talking about.

This. The messiest move here has been Duff's husband attacking Ashley directly, basically confirming for everyone that Hillary is part of the "toxic mom group" even as Ashley was denying that there were other famous moms in the group she was talking about.

Also, just a general pet peeve -- there is no "hearsay" here. It's not court. IRL, people can talk about their experiences and you can decide whether or not you trust their account or not, but there's no rule that you can't share things that other people may have said or done to you. Which, by the way, Tisdale didn't even do because she doesn't even say who any of the moms in her mom group were and she's not actually accusing anyone of anything.

I'm sorry, did you read the article? She's definitely accusing people of being petty, mean, toxic, exclusive, etc. If what she said wasn't bad at all then no one would be talking about it...

You have to name names to accuse people. She was purposefully vague. If her former friends recognized themselves they should have just said they don’t know her or have any idea what she’s talking about if asked. Not do what Mr Duff did.

So they should have...lied?

And no, you don't have to name names to accuse people. It's like when a celebrity says something bad about a co-star. It's not like they're talking about someone else on the planet - they're clearly talking about a defined group of people.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Tisdale’s article appeared on my newsfeed today right next to the headlines about Tatiana schlossberg’s funeral and untimely death from aggressive cancer. A stark contrast and a reminder of how completely asinine and unimportant this entire topic is. It’s pedantic that cliques exist amongst grown adults and attention and validation seeking that tisdale would write an article about it. People lack perspective on what’s important in life.

Of course it seems unimportant compared to someone dying at a young age from cancer. 99% of this website is unimportant compared to that.

But friendships, finding support as a mom, and just generally having community are actually very important.

Which you can do without the friend “group” angle. Your own mom, or other women who have raised kids and share their wisdom and advice, coworkers, one-on-one friends. There’s so many ways to have the support and community, without the “group” part of it.

Many, many women find themselves in Mom groups. They want to know other moms in the neighborhood with babies the same age. This isn't remotely weird or odd.

The “group” idea is odd. Most people find 1-2 people they like in a group.

In a class of people you find 1-2 friends.
On a sports team you find 1-2 friends.
At work you find 1-2 friends.

The idea you will find a group where every single person is close friends is not real life.

Ok? But in that group are people pointedly excluding you, being weird and sitting you far away from the rest of the group, making plans in front of you? We don't all have to be friends but some of these women went out of their way to be jerks. It's not that hard to be nice at a kid's birthday party and not you know, invite all the other girlies for something like a brunch the next day in front of the hostess and not include her.

In a class we break into groups and yes I’m not part of every group. In school at lunch the lunch tables are harder to join than sororities. I’m not invited to every study group. In sports I’m not always invited to get food after practice, I don’t sit with certain people at pre-game dinners.

I go to birthday parties and don’t talk to every parent.

Your taking this not talk about something too far. It reminds me of the movie Booksmart where nobody’s allowed to talk about what school they got into because it might hurt somebody’s feelings.

Here’s the reality people are doing things without you. Some people have more money than you. Some people go on vacation vacations with friends and you’re not invited. You’re not invited to every brunch.

Find your one or two friends and do something with them.

Oh please. This is about what Ashley wrote. If you want to talk about your own personal groups do that elsewhere. What she described sucks.

We are in the relationship forum not the entertainment forum. This is talking about women groups in general.

Ashley, just needs to relax. People are mean I could write 20 articles about mean women I’ve met in the DC area.

Really? It’s not new. It’s not interesting.

Exactly. She wrote this article like she was me too’d. The mom group sounds like a cult. Just make a few friends and stop referring to yourself as a group.

One of my kids had a small preschool pod that was together for a few years. Us mom in the group bonded. We love seeing each other and some of our kids do some activities together, we have a what’s app group and sometimes get dinner. But some individuals are closer to each other than others and we all have other friends. What tisdale is whining about seems so immature. She’s 40 years old and doesn’t need her friend group to be everything in life, and even weirder to use her kids as a vehicle for it.

Sounds a bit hypocritical coming from someone with a group based around preschoolers. Find your own friends and leave the kids out if it.

We don’t have a “group.” We like each other and stay in touch and get dinner sometimes. We all have our own lives and friends outside of it and there’s no “Queen bee” dynamic.

The irritating parts of this saga are:

- grown women acting like they’re in middle school and having a “clique” that does everything together
- grown women behaving like their life revolves around said clique
- rejected clique member feeling so infuriated by her self proclaimed “drama” that they feel the need to expose it on a public way.

Hilary duff and Mandy Moore may be catty (who knows? Not me) but tisdale stirring the pot by creating tabloid fodder - all while framing this like a vanity fair assault expose - also tells you a lot about her level of self absorption as a person.

Pp again. And to add to that, I’d say that everything about duff and Mandy Moore is heresay, based on tisdales account. The only thing we actually know for sure is that tisdale is enough of a drama queen to publish this self absorbed, tone deaf article about a saga of her own creation.

I don’t think you can say it’s all just Ashley Tisdale airing random grievances and “what’s the other side of the story” when Hilary Duff’s husband stepped in, guns a blazin. Now Hilary (and her husband) both look kind of crazy and guilty. They could have stayed out of it and the whole thing would have blown over in a day or two, now look what we’re all talking about.

This. The messiest move here has been Duff's husband attacking Ashley directly, basically confirming for everyone that Hillary is part of the "toxic mom group" even as Ashley was denying that there were other famous moms in the group she was talking about.

Also, just a general pet peeve -- there is no "hearsay" here. It's not court. IRL, people can talk about their experiences and you can decide whether or not you trust their account or not, but there's no rule that you can't share things that other people may have said or done to you. Which, by the way, Tisdale didn't even do because she doesn't even say who any of the moms in her mom group were and she's not actually accusing anyone of anything.

I'm sorry, did you read the article? She's definitely accusing people of being petty, mean, toxic, exclusive, etc. If what she said wasn't bad at all then no one would be talking about it...

You have to name names to accuse people. She was purposefully vague. If her former friends recognized themselves they should have just said they don’t know her or have any idea what she’s talking about if asked. Not do what Mr Duff did.

So they should have...lied?

And no, you don't have to name names to accuse people. It's like when a celebrity says something bad about a co-star. It's not like they're talking about someone else on the planet - they're clearly talking about a defined group of people.

You don’t think celebs lie all the time? It’s what they do. They deny dating rumors, break up rumors, rumors about being difficult on set or having beef with co-stars. Yes, they lie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tisdale’s article appeared on my newsfeed today right next to the headlines about Tatiana schlossberg’s funeral and untimely death from aggressive cancer. A stark contrast and a reminder of how completely asinine and unimportant this entire topic is. It’s pedantic that cliques exist amongst grown adults and attention and validation seeking that tisdale would write an article about it. People lack perspective on what’s important in life.

Of course it seems unimportant compared to someone dying at a young age from cancer. 99% of this website is unimportant compared to that.

But friendships, finding support as a mom, and just generally having community are actually very important.

Which you can do without the friend “group” angle. Your own mom, or other women who have raised kids and share their wisdom and advice, coworkers, one-on-one friends. There’s so many ways to have the support and community, without the “group” part of it.

Many, many women find themselves in Mom groups. They want to know other moms in the neighborhood with babies the same age. This isn't remotely weird or odd.

The “group” idea is odd. Most people find 1-2 people they like in a group.

In a class of people you find 1-2 friends.
On a sports team you find 1-2 friends.
At work you find 1-2 friends.

The idea you will find a group where every single person is close friends is not real life.

Ok? But in that group are people pointedly excluding you, being weird and sitting you far away from the rest of the group, making plans in front of you? We don't all have to be friends but some of these women went out of their way to be jerks. It's not that hard to be nice at a kid's birthday party and not you know, invite all the other girlies for something like a brunch the next day in front of the hostess and not include her.

In a class we break into groups and yes I’m not part of every group. In school at lunch the lunch tables are harder to join than sororities. I’m not invited to every study group. In sports I’m not always invited to get food after practice, I don’t sit with certain people at pre-game dinners.

I go to birthday parties and don’t talk to every parent.

Your taking this not talk about something too far. It reminds me of the movie Booksmart where nobody’s allowed to talk about what school they got into because it might hurt somebody’s feelings.

Here’s the reality people are doing things without you. Some people have more money than you. Some people go on vacation vacations with friends and you’re not invited. You’re not invited to every brunch.

Find your one or two friends and do something with them.

Oh please. This is about what Ashley wrote. If you want to talk about your own personal groups do that elsewhere. What she described sucks.

We are in the relationship forum not the entertainment forum. This is talking about women groups in general.

Ashley, just needs to relax. People are mean I could write 20 articles about mean women I’ve met in the DC area.

Really? It’s not new. It’s not interesting.

Exactly. She wrote this article like she was me too’d. The mom group sounds like a cult. Just make a few friends and stop referring to yourself as a group.

One of my kids had a small preschool pod that was together for a few years. Us mom in the group bonded. We love seeing each other and some of our kids do some activities together, we have a what’s app group and sometimes get dinner. But some individuals are closer to each other than others and we all have other friends. What tisdale is whining about seems so immature. She’s 40 years old and doesn’t need her friend group to be everything in life, and even weirder to use her kids as a vehicle for it.

Sounds a bit hypocritical coming from someone with a group based around preschoolers. Find your own friends and leave the kids out if it.

We don’t have a “group.” We like each other and stay in touch and get dinner sometimes. We all have our own lives and friends outside of it and there’s no “Queen bee” dynamic.

The irritating parts of this saga are:

- grown women acting like they’re in middle school and having a “clique” that does everything together
- grown women behaving like their life revolves around said clique
- rejected clique member feeling so infuriated by her self proclaimed “drama” that they feel the need to expose it on a public way.

Hilary duff and Mandy Moore may be catty (who knows? Not me) but tisdale stirring the pot by creating tabloid fodder - all while framing this like a vanity fair assault expose - also tells you a lot about her level of self absorption as a person.

Pp again. And to add to that, I’d say that everything about duff and Mandy Moore is heresay, based on tisdales account. The only thing we actually know for sure is that tisdale is enough of a drama queen to publish this self absorbed, tone deaf article about a saga of her own creation.

I don’t think you can say it’s all just Ashley Tisdale airing random grievances and “what’s the other side of the story” when Hilary Duff’s husband stepped in, guns a blazin. Now Hilary (and her husband) both look kind of crazy and guilty. They could have stayed out of it and the whole thing would have blown over in a day or two, now look what we’re all talking about.

This. The messiest move here has been Duff's husband attacking Ashley directly, basically confirming for everyone that Hillary is part of the "toxic mom group" even as Ashley was denying that there were other famous moms in the group she was talking about.

Also, just a general pet peeve -- there is no "hearsay" here. It's not court. IRL, people can talk about their experiences and you can decide whether or not you trust their account or not, but there's no rule that you can't share things that other people may have said or done to you. Which, by the way, Tisdale didn't even do because she doesn't even say who any of the moms in her mom group were and she's not actually accusing anyone of anything.

I'm sorry, did you read the article? She's definitely accusing people of being petty, mean, toxic, exclusive, etc. If what she said wasn't bad at all then no one would be talking about it...

She didn't name names. She also doesn't just name call. She's not saying "ugh all the women in this group were petty, mean, toxic, and exclusive." Rather, she describes her personal experience of feeling excluded or left out, and many people concluded upon reading it "oh that is mean". She calls the group and its dynamics toxic (which, based on what we continue to find out, appears to be spot on) but says she thinks the women *in* the group are mostly good people caught in a negative dynamic. The meanest thing she says is that she thinks one of the women in the group might not be a good person, but she doesn't say who that woman is nor does she describe anything specifically this woman did that might provide hints as to who it is.

I read the piece when it came out and I didn't think "wow she's really calling these women out." My first thought was "yeah it is too bad when women get caught up in those dynamics -- I've been stuck in dynamics like that before and it sucks." I viewed it as a criticism of how women in general sometimes relate to each other, and not an attack on specific women at all.

[Anonymous]

Hillary duffs husband is bad now too. They’re probably all bad.

I gotta be honest, anyone who posts friend outings on social media is highly suspect to me even if it’s for a brand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tisdale’s article appeared on my newsfeed today right next to the headlines about Tatiana schlossberg’s funeral and untimely death from aggressive cancer. A stark contrast and a reminder of how completely asinine and unimportant this entire topic is. It’s pedantic that cliques exist amongst grown adults and attention and validation seeking that tisdale would write an article about it. People lack perspective on what’s important in life.

Of course it seems unimportant compared to someone dying at a young age from cancer. 99% of this website is unimportant compared to that.

But friendships, finding support as a mom, and just generally having community are actually very important.

Which you can do without the friend “group” angle. Your own mom, or other women who have raised kids and share their wisdom and advice, coworkers, one-on-one friends. There’s so many ways to have the support and community, without the “group” part of it.

Many, many women find themselves in Mom groups. They want to know other moms in the neighborhood with babies the same age. This isn't remotely weird or odd.

The “group” idea is odd. Most people find 1-2 people they like in a group.

In a class of people you find 1-2 friends.
On a sports team you find 1-2 friends.
At work you find 1-2 friends.

The idea you will find a group where every single person is close friends is not real life.

Ok? But in that group are people pointedly excluding you, being weird and sitting you far away from the rest of the group, making plans in front of you? We don't all have to be friends but some of these women went out of their way to be jerks. It's not that hard to be nice at a kid's birthday party and not you know, invite all the other girlies for something like a brunch the next day in front of the hostess and not include her.

In a class we break into groups and yes I’m not part of every group. In school at lunch the lunch tables are harder to join than sororities. I’m not invited to every study group. In sports I’m not always invited to get food after practice, I don’t sit with certain people at pre-game dinners.

I go to birthday parties and don’t talk to every parent.

Your taking this not talk about something too far. It reminds me of the movie Booksmart where nobody’s allowed to talk about what school they got into because it might hurt somebody’s feelings.

Here’s the reality people are doing things without you. Some people have more money than you. Some people go on vacation vacations with friends and you’re not invited. You’re not invited to every brunch.

Find your one or two friends and do something with them.

Oh please. This is about what Ashley wrote. If you want to talk about your own personal groups do that elsewhere. What she described sucks.

We are in the relationship forum not the entertainment forum. This is talking about women groups in general.

Ashley, just needs to relax. People are mean I could write 20 articles about mean women I’ve met in the DC area.

Really? It’s not new. It’s not interesting.

Exactly. She wrote this article like she was me too’d. The mom group sounds like a cult. Just make a few friends and stop referring to yourself as a group.

One of my kids had a small preschool pod that was together for a few years. Us mom in the group bonded. We love seeing each other and some of our kids do some activities together, we have a what’s app group and sometimes get dinner. But some individuals are closer to each other than others and we all have other friends. What tisdale is whining about seems so immature. She’s 40 years old and doesn’t need her friend group to be everything in life, and even weirder to use her kids as a vehicle for it.

Sounds a bit hypocritical coming from someone with a group based around preschoolers. Find your own friends and leave the kids out if it.

We don’t have a “group.” We like each other and stay in touch and get dinner sometimes. We all have our own lives and friends outside of it and there’s no “Queen bee” dynamic.

The irritating parts of this saga are:

- grown women acting like they’re in middle school and having a “clique” that does everything together
- grown women behaving like their life revolves around said clique
- rejected clique member feeling so infuriated by her self proclaimed “drama” that they feel the need to expose it on a public way.

Hilary duff and Mandy Moore may be catty (who knows? Not me) but tisdale stirring the pot by creating tabloid fodder - all while framing this like a vanity fair assault expose - also tells you a lot about her level of self absorption as a person.

Pp again. And to add to that, I’d say that everything about duff and Mandy Moore is heresay, based on tisdales account. The only thing we actually know for sure is that tisdale is enough of a drama queen to publish this self absorbed, tone deaf article about a saga of her own creation.

Tisdale said nothing about mandy or Hilary but you clearly have an axe to grind. Why are you so mad?

I have no axe to grind. Just find the whole thing so sophomoric and was trying to put my finger on why I feel that way.

You’re not really making any deep insights here. Ashley said it was stupid and highschoolish and when she finally realized what was going on and how it made her feel, got out of it. Sometimes people just get caught up in things and with babies and a new phase of life maybe wasn’t being as clearheaded as she should have been. It resonates with some people and not with others. But it’s weird that people keep coming back in here to tell everyone how they just don’t get it and can’t figure it out. I’m not divorced but I don’t need to go into divorce threads telling people I just get why everyone can’t get along because I’m happily married.

Well that’s fine - only she didn’t just “get out of it once she realized how immature it was.” She wrote a public article on it and slandered her ex friends. And she didn’t “get out of it” she was iced out. So she’s not low drama. She’s the definition of high drama.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tisdale’s article appeared on my newsfeed today right next to the headlines about Tatiana schlossberg’s funeral and untimely death from aggressive cancer. A stark contrast and a reminder of how completely asinine and unimportant this entire topic is. It’s pedantic that cliques exist amongst grown adults and attention and validation seeking that tisdale would write an article about it. People lack perspective on what’s important in life.

Of course it seems unimportant compared to someone dying at a young age from cancer. 99% of this website is unimportant compared to that.

But friendships, finding support as a mom, and just generally having community are actually very important.

Which you can do without the friend “group” angle. Your own mom, or other women who have raised kids and share their wisdom and advice, coworkers, one-on-one friends. There’s so many ways to have the support and community, without the “group” part of it.

Many, many women find themselves in Mom groups. They want to know other moms in the neighborhood with babies the same age. This isn't remotely weird or odd.

The “group” idea is odd. Most people find 1-2 people they like in a group.

In a class of people you find 1-2 friends.
On a sports team you find 1-2 friends.
At work you find 1-2 friends.

The idea you will find a group where every single person is close friends is not real life.

Ok? But in that group are people pointedly excluding you, being weird and sitting you far away from the rest of the group, making plans in front of you? We don't all have to be friends but some of these women went out of their way to be jerks. It's not that hard to be nice at a kid's birthday party and not you know, invite all the other girlies for something like a brunch the next day in front of the hostess and not include her.

In a class we break into groups and yes I’m not part of every group. In school at lunch the lunch tables are harder to join than sororities. I’m not invited to every study group. In sports I’m not always invited to get food after practice, I don’t sit with certain people at pre-game dinners.

I go to birthday parties and don’t talk to every parent.

Your taking this not talk about something too far. It reminds me of the movie Booksmart where nobody’s allowed to talk about what school they got into because it might hurt somebody’s feelings.

Here’s the reality people are doing things without you. Some people have more money than you. Some people go on vacation vacations with friends and you’re not invited. You’re not invited to every brunch.

Find your one or two friends and do something with them.

Oh please. This is about what Ashley wrote. If you want to talk about your own personal groups do that elsewhere. What she described sucks.

We are in the relationship forum not the entertainment forum. This is talking about women groups in general.

Ashley, just needs to relax. People are mean I could write 20 articles about mean women I’ve met in the DC area.

Really? It’s not new. It’s not interesting.

Exactly. She wrote this article like she was me too’d. The mom group sounds like a cult. Just make a few friends and stop referring to yourself as a group.

One of my kids had a small preschool pod that was together for a few years. Us mom in the group bonded. We love seeing each other and some of our kids do some activities together, we have a what’s app group and sometimes get dinner. But some individuals are closer to each other than others and we all have other friends. What tisdale is whining about seems so immature. She’s 40 years old and doesn’t need her friend group to be everything in life, and even weirder to use her kids as a vehicle for it.

Sounds a bit hypocritical coming from someone with a group based around preschoolers. Find your own friends and leave the kids out if it.

We don’t have a “group.” We like each other and stay in touch and get dinner sometimes. We all have our own lives and friends outside of it and there’s no “Queen bee” dynamic.

The irritating parts of this saga are:

- grown women acting like they’re in middle school and having a “clique” that does everything together
- grown women behaving like their life revolves around said clique
- rejected clique member feeling so infuriated by her self proclaimed “drama” that they feel the need to expose it on a public way.

Hilary duff and Mandy Moore may be catty (who knows? Not me) but tisdale stirring the pot by creating tabloid fodder - all while framing this like a vanity fair assault expose - also tells you a lot about her level of self absorption as a person.

Pp again. And to add to that, I’d say that everything about duff and Mandy Moore is heresay, based on tisdales account. The only thing we actually know for sure is that tisdale is enough of a drama queen to publish this self absorbed, tone deaf article about a saga of her own creation.

I don’t think you can say it’s all just Ashley Tisdale airing random grievances and “what’s the other side of the story” when Hilary Duff’s husband stepped in, guns a blazin. Now Hilary (and her husband) both look kind of crazy and guilty. They could have stayed out of it and the whole thing would have blown over in a day or two, now look what we’re all talking about.

This. The messiest move here has been Duff's husband attacking Ashley directly, basically confirming for everyone that Hillary is part of the "toxic mom group" even as Ashley was denying that there were other famous moms in the group she was talking about.

Also, just a general pet peeve -- there is no "hearsay" here. It's not court. IRL, people can talk about their experiences and you can decide whether or not you trust their account or not, but there's no rule that you can't share things that other people may have said or done to you. Which, by the way, Tisdale didn't even do because she doesn't even say who any of the moms in her mom group were and she's not actually accusing anyone of anything.

I'm sorry, did you read the article? She's definitely accusing people of being petty, mean, toxic, exclusive, etc. If what she said wasn't bad at all then no one would be talking about it...

You have to name names to accuse people. She was purposefully vague. If her former friends recognized themselves they should have just said they don’t know her or have any idea what she’s talking about if asked. Not do what Mr Duff did.

So they should have...lied?

And no, you don't have to name names to accuse people. It's like when a celebrity says something bad about a co-star. It's not like they're talking about someone else on the planet - they're clearly talking about a defined group of people.

They should have said nothing. If they had ignored the article and not involved themselves at all, I think it would have blown over in a few days and no one would care about it at all.

Duff's husband basically put up a bit flashing neon sign saying "HEY MY WIFE WAS 100% IN THAT GROUP ASHLEY TISDALE SAID WAS TOXIC AND IN CASE YOU WERE WONDERING: IT WAS AND IS TOXIC AND, SURPRISE!, I'M PART OF THE PROBLEM TOO."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tisdale’s article appeared on my newsfeed today right next to the headlines about Tatiana schlossberg’s funeral and untimely death from aggressive cancer. A stark contrast and a reminder of how completely asinine and unimportant this entire topic is. It’s pedantic that cliques exist amongst grown adults and attention and validation seeking that tisdale would write an article about it. People lack perspective on what’s important in life.

Of course it seems unimportant compared to someone dying at a young age from cancer. 99% of this website is unimportant compared to that.

But friendships, finding support as a mom, and just generally having community are actually very important.

Which you can do without the friend “group” angle. Your own mom, or other women who have raised kids and share their wisdom and advice, coworkers, one-on-one friends. There’s so many ways to have the support and community, without the “group” part of it.

Many, many women find themselves in Mom groups. They want to know other moms in the neighborhood with babies the same age. This isn't remotely weird or odd.

The “group” idea is odd. Most people find 1-2 people they like in a group.

In a class of people you find 1-2 friends.
On a sports team you find 1-2 friends.
At work you find 1-2 friends.

The idea you will find a group where every single person is close friends is not real life.

Ok? But in that group are people pointedly excluding you, being weird and sitting you far away from the rest of the group, making plans in front of you? We don't all have to be friends but some of these women went out of their way to be jerks. It's not that hard to be nice at a kid's birthday party and not you know, invite all the other girlies for something like a brunch the next day in front of the hostess and not include her.

In a class we break into groups and yes I’m not part of every group. In school at lunch the lunch tables are harder to join than sororities. I’m not invited to every study group. In sports I’m not always invited to get food after practice, I don’t sit with certain people at pre-game dinners.

I go to birthday parties and don’t talk to every parent.

Your taking this not talk about something too far. It reminds me of the movie Booksmart where nobody’s allowed to talk about what school they got into because it might hurt somebody’s feelings.

Here’s the reality people are doing things without you. Some people have more money than you. Some people go on vacation vacations with friends and you’re not invited. You’re not invited to every brunch.

Find your one or two friends and do something with them.

Oh please. This is about what Ashley wrote. If you want to talk about your own personal groups do that elsewhere. What she described sucks.

We are in the relationship forum not the entertainment forum. This is talking about women groups in general.

Ashley, just needs to relax. People are mean I could write 20 articles about mean women I’ve met in the DC area.

Really? It’s not new. It’s not interesting.

Exactly. She wrote this article like she was me too’d. The mom group sounds like a cult. Just make a few friends and stop referring to yourself as a group.

One of my kids had a small preschool pod that was together for a few years. Us mom in the group bonded. We love seeing each other and some of our kids do some activities together, we have a what’s app group and sometimes get dinner. But some individuals are closer to each other than others and we all have other friends. What tisdale is whining about seems so immature. She’s 40 years old and doesn’t need her friend group to be everything in life, and even weirder to use her kids as a vehicle for it.

Sounds a bit hypocritical coming from someone with a group based around preschoolers. Find your own friends and leave the kids out if it.

We don’t have a “group.” We like each other and stay in touch and get dinner sometimes. We all have our own lives and friends outside of it and there’s no “Queen bee” dynamic.

The irritating parts of this saga are:

- grown women acting like they’re in middle school and having a “clique” that does everything together
- grown women behaving like their life revolves around said clique
- rejected clique member feeling so infuriated by her self proclaimed “drama” that they feel the need to expose it on a public way.

Hilary duff and Mandy Moore may be catty (who knows? Not me) but tisdale stirring the pot by creating tabloid fodder - all while framing this like a vanity fair assault expose - also tells you a lot about her level of self absorption as a person.

Pp again. And to add to that, I’d say that everything about duff and Mandy Moore is heresay, based on tisdales account. The only thing we actually know for sure is that tisdale is enough of a drama queen to publish this self absorbed, tone deaf article about a saga of her own creation.

Tisdale said nothing about mandy or Hilary but you clearly have an axe to grind. Why are you so mad?

I have no axe to grind. Just find the whole thing so sophomoric and was trying to put my finger on why I feel that way.

You’re not really making any deep insights here. Ashley said it was stupid and highschoolish and when she finally realized what was going on and how it made her feel, got out of it. Sometimes people just get caught up in things and with babies and a new phase of life maybe wasn’t being as clearheaded as she should have been. It resonates with some people and not with others. But it’s weird that people keep coming back in here to tell everyone how they just don’t get it and can’t figure it out. I’m not divorced but I don’t need to go into divorce threads telling people I just get why everyone can’t get along because I’m happily married.

Well that’s fine - only she didn’t just “get out of it once she realized how immature it was.” She wrote a public article on it and slandered her ex friends. And she didn’t “get out of it” she was iced out. So she’s not low drama. She’s the definition of high drama.

Nobody was slandered. She’s allowed to write about her own personal experiences after the fact. Your overreaction is a bit dramatic here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tisdale’s article appeared on my newsfeed today right next to the headlines about Tatiana schlossberg’s funeral and untimely death from aggressive cancer. A stark contrast and a reminder of how completely asinine and unimportant this entire topic is. It’s pedantic that cliques exist amongst grown adults and attention and validation seeking that tisdale would write an article about it. People lack perspective on what’s important in life.

Of course it seems unimportant compared to someone dying at a young age from cancer. 99% of this website is unimportant compared to that.

But friendships, finding support as a mom, and just generally having community are actually very important.

Which you can do without the friend “group” angle. Your own mom, or other women who have raised kids and share their wisdom and advice, coworkers, one-on-one friends. There’s so many ways to have the support and community, without the “group” part of it.

Many, many women find themselves in Mom groups. They want to know other moms in the neighborhood with babies the same age. This isn't remotely weird or odd.

The “group” idea is odd. Most people find 1-2 people they like in a group.

In a class of people you find 1-2 friends.
On a sports team you find 1-2 friends.
At work you find 1-2 friends.

The idea you will find a group where every single person is close friends is not real life.

Ok? But in that group are people pointedly excluding you, being weird and sitting you far away from the rest of the group, making plans in front of you? We don't all have to be friends but some of these women went out of their way to be jerks. It's not that hard to be nice at a kid's birthday party and not you know, invite all the other girlies for something like a brunch the next day in front of the hostess and not include her.

In a class we break into groups and yes I’m not part of every group. In school at lunch the lunch tables are harder to join than sororities. I’m not invited to every study group. In sports I’m not always invited to get food after practice, I don’t sit with certain people at pre-game dinners.

I go to birthday parties and don’t talk to every parent.

Your taking this not talk about something too far. It reminds me of the movie Booksmart where nobody’s allowed to talk about what school they got into because it might hurt somebody’s feelings.

Here’s the reality people are doing things without you. Some people have more money than you. Some people go on vacation vacations with friends and you’re not invited. You’re not invited to every brunch.

Find your one or two friends and do something with them.

Oh please. This is about what Ashley wrote. If you want to talk about your own personal groups do that elsewhere. What she described sucks.

We are in the relationship forum not the entertainment forum. This is talking about women groups in general.

Ashley, just needs to relax. People are mean I could write 20 articles about mean women I’ve met in the DC area.

Really? It’s not new. It’s not interesting.

Exactly. She wrote this article like she was me too’d. The mom group sounds like a cult. Just make a few friends and stop referring to yourself as a group.

One of my kids had a small preschool pod that was together for a few years. Us mom in the group bonded. We love seeing each other and some of our kids do some activities together, we have a what’s app group and sometimes get dinner. But some individuals are closer to each other than others and we all have other friends. What tisdale is whining about seems so immature. She’s 40 years old and doesn’t need her friend group to be everything in life, and even weirder to use her kids as a vehicle for it.

Sounds a bit hypocritical coming from someone with a group based around preschoolers. Find your own friends and leave the kids out if it.

We don’t have a “group.” We like each other and stay in touch and get dinner sometimes. We all have our own lives and friends outside of it and there’s no “Queen bee” dynamic.

The irritating parts of this saga are:

- grown women acting like they’re in middle school and having a “clique” that does everything together
- grown women behaving like their life revolves around said clique
- rejected clique member feeling so infuriated by her self proclaimed “drama” that they feel the need to expose it on a public way.

Hilary duff and Mandy Moore may be catty (who knows? Not me) but tisdale stirring the pot by creating tabloid fodder - all while framing this like a vanity fair assault expose - also tells you a lot about her level of self absorption as a person.

Pp again. And to add to that, I’d say that everything about duff and Mandy Moore is heresay, based on tisdales account. The only thing we actually know for sure is that tisdale is enough of a drama queen to publish this self absorbed, tone deaf article about a saga of her own creation.

I don’t think you can say it’s all just Ashley Tisdale airing random grievances and “what’s the other side of the story” when Hilary Duff’s husband stepped in, guns a blazin. Now Hilary (and her husband) both look kind of crazy and guilty. They could have stayed out of it and the whole thing would have blown over in a day or two, now look what we’re all talking about.

This. The messiest move here has been Duff's husband attacking Ashley directly, basically confirming for everyone that Hillary is part of the "toxic mom group" even as Ashley was denying that there were other famous moms in the group she was talking about.

Also, just a general pet peeve -- there is no "hearsay" here. It's not court. IRL, people can talk about their experiences and you can decide whether or not you trust their account or not, but there's no rule that you can't share things that other people may have said or done to you. Which, by the way, Tisdale didn't even do because she doesn't even say who any of the moms in her mom group were and she's not actually accusing anyone of anything.

I'm sorry, did you read the article? She's definitely accusing people of being petty, mean, toxic, exclusive, etc. If what she said wasn't bad at all then no one would be talking about it...

You have to name names to accuse people. She was purposefully vague. If her former friends recognized themselves they should have just said they don’t know her or have any idea what she’s talking about if asked. Not do what Mr Duff did.

So they should have...lied?

And no, you don't have to name names to accuse people. It's like when a celebrity says something bad about a co-star. It's not like they're talking about someone else on the planet - they're clearly talking about a defined group of people.

You don’t think celebs lie all the time? It’s what they do. They deny dating rumors, break up rumors, rumors about being difficult on set or having beef with co-stars. Yes, they lie.

Everyone lies. But I find it odd that you're saying that the proper reaction to Ashley's article was to lie. That's...interesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tisdale’s article appeared on my newsfeed today right next to the headlines about Tatiana schlossberg’s funeral and untimely death from aggressive cancer. A stark contrast and a reminder of how completely asinine and unimportant this entire topic is. It’s pedantic that cliques exist amongst grown adults and attention and validation seeking that tisdale would write an article about it. People lack perspective on what’s important in life.

Of course it seems unimportant compared to someone dying at a young age from cancer. 99% of this website is unimportant compared to that.

But friendships, finding support as a mom, and just generally having community are actually very important.

Which you can do without the friend “group” angle. Your own mom, or other women who have raised kids and share their wisdom and advice, coworkers, one-on-one friends. There’s so many ways to have the support and community, without the “group” part of it.

Many, many women find themselves in Mom groups. They want to know other moms in the neighborhood with babies the same age. This isn't remotely weird or odd.

The “group” idea is odd. Most people find 1-2 people they like in a group.

In a class of people you find 1-2 friends.
On a sports team you find 1-2 friends.
At work you find 1-2 friends.

The idea you will find a group where every single person is close friends is not real life.

Ok? But in that group are people pointedly excluding you, being weird and sitting you far away from the rest of the group, making plans in front of you? We don't all have to be friends but some of these women went out of their way to be jerks. It's not that hard to be nice at a kid's birthday party and not you know, invite all the other girlies for something like a brunch the next day in front of the hostess and not include her.

In a class we break into groups and yes I’m not part of every group. In school at lunch the lunch tables are harder to join than sororities. I’m not invited to every study group. In sports I’m not always invited to get food after practice, I don’t sit with certain people at pre-game dinners.

I go to birthday parties and don’t talk to every parent.

Your taking this not talk about something too far. It reminds me of the movie Booksmart where nobody’s allowed to talk about what school they got into because it might hurt somebody’s feelings.

Here’s the reality people are doing things without you. Some people have more money than you. Some people go on vacation vacations with friends and you’re not invited. You’re not invited to every brunch.

Find your one or two friends and do something with them.

Oh please. This is about what Ashley wrote. If you want to talk about your own personal groups do that elsewhere. What she described sucks.

We are in the relationship forum not the entertainment forum. This is talking about women groups in general.

Ashley, just needs to relax. People are mean I could write 20 articles about mean women I’ve met in the DC area.

Really? It’s not new. It’s not interesting.

Exactly. She wrote this article like she was me too’d. The mom group sounds like a cult. Just make a few friends and stop referring to yourself as a group.

One of my kids had a small preschool pod that was together for a few years. Us mom in the group bonded. We love seeing each other and some of our kids do some activities together, we have a what’s app group and sometimes get dinner. But some individuals are closer to each other than others and we all have other friends. What tisdale is whining about seems so immature. She’s 40 years old and doesn’t need her friend group to be everything in life, and even weirder to use her kids as a vehicle for it.

Sounds a bit hypocritical coming from someone with a group based around preschoolers. Find your own friends and leave the kids out if it.

We don’t have a “group.” We like each other and stay in touch and get dinner sometimes. We all have our own lives and friends outside of it and there’s no “Queen bee” dynamic.

The irritating parts of this saga are:

- grown women acting like they’re in middle school and having a “clique” that does everything together
- grown women behaving like their life revolves around said clique
- rejected clique member feeling so infuriated by her self proclaimed “drama” that they feel the need to expose it on a public way.

Hilary duff and Mandy Moore may be catty (who knows? Not me) but tisdale stirring the pot by creating tabloid fodder - all while framing this like a vanity fair assault expose - also tells you a lot about her level of self absorption as a person.

Pp again. And to add to that, I’d say that everything about duff and Mandy Moore is heresay, based on tisdales account. The only thing we actually know for sure is that tisdale is enough of a drama queen to publish this self absorbed, tone deaf article about a saga of her own creation.

I don’t think you can say it’s all just Ashley Tisdale airing random grievances and “what’s the other side of the story” when Hilary Duff’s husband stepped in, guns a blazin. Now Hilary (and her husband) both look kind of crazy and guilty. They could have stayed out of it and the whole thing would have blown over in a day or two, now look what we’re all talking about.

This. The messiest move here has been Duff's husband attacking Ashley directly, basically confirming for everyone that Hillary is part of the "toxic mom group" even as Ashley was denying that there were other famous moms in the group she was talking about.

Also, just a general pet peeve -- there is no "hearsay" here. It's not court. IRL, people can talk about their experiences and you can decide whether or not you trust their account or not, but there's no rule that you can't share things that other people may have said or done to you. Which, by the way, Tisdale didn't even do because she doesn't even say who any of the moms in her mom group were and she's not actually accusing anyone of anything.

I'm sorry, did you read the article? She's definitely accusing people of being petty, mean, toxic, exclusive, etc. If what she said wasn't bad at all then no one would be talking about it...

She didn't name names. She also doesn't just name call. She's not saying "ugh all the women in this group were petty, mean, toxic, and exclusive." Rather, she describes her personal experience of feeling excluded or left out, and many people concluded upon reading it "oh that is mean". She calls the group and its dynamics toxic (which, based on what we continue to find out, appears to be spot on) but says she thinks the women *in* the group are mostly good people caught in a negative dynamic. The meanest thing she says is that she thinks one of the women in the group might not be a good person, but she doesn't say who that woman is nor does she describe anything specifically this woman did that might provide hints as to who it is.

I read the piece when it came out and I didn't think "wow she's really calling these women out." My first thought was "yeah it is too bad when women get caught up in those dynamics -- I've been stuck in dynamics like that before and it sucks." I viewed it as a criticism of how women in general sometimes relate to each other, and not an attack on specific women at all.

Weird take, but ok. If she was fine with all the women, like you seem to claim, then why couldn't they have either ironed out their differences or left on a good note? Better yet, why couldn't they all have written a joint article about the ways in which groups of really nice women can somehow become toxic when all of them are so nice?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tisdale’s article appeared on my newsfeed today right next to the headlines about Tatiana schlossberg’s funeral and untimely death from aggressive cancer. A stark contrast and a reminder of how completely asinine and unimportant this entire topic is. It’s pedantic that cliques exist amongst grown adults and attention and validation seeking that tisdale would write an article about it. People lack perspective on what’s important in life.

Of course it seems unimportant compared to someone dying at a young age from cancer. 99% of this website is unimportant compared to that.

But friendships, finding support as a mom, and just generally having community are actually very important.

Which you can do without the friend “group” angle. Your own mom, or other women who have raised kids and share their wisdom and advice, coworkers, one-on-one friends. There’s so many ways to have the support and community, without the “group” part of it.

Many, many women find themselves in Mom groups. They want to know other moms in the neighborhood with babies the same age. This isn't remotely weird or odd.

The “group” idea is odd. Most people find 1-2 people they like in a group.

In a class of people you find 1-2 friends.
On a sports team you find 1-2 friends.
At work you find 1-2 friends.

The idea you will find a group where every single person is close friends is not real life.

Ok? But in that group are people pointedly excluding you, being weird and sitting you far away from the rest of the group, making plans in front of you? We don't all have to be friends but some of these women went out of their way to be jerks. It's not that hard to be nice at a kid's birthday party and not you know, invite all the other girlies for something like a brunch the next day in front of the hostess and not include her.

In a class we break into groups and yes I’m not part of every group. In school at lunch the lunch tables are harder to join than sororities. I’m not invited to every study group. In sports I’m not always invited to get food after practice, I don’t sit with certain people at pre-game dinners.

I go to birthday parties and don’t talk to every parent.

Your taking this not talk about something too far. It reminds me of the movie Booksmart where nobody’s allowed to talk about what school they got into because it might hurt somebody’s feelings.

Here’s the reality people are doing things without you. Some people have more money than you. Some people go on vacation vacations with friends and you’re not invited. You’re not invited to every brunch.

Find your one or two friends and do something with them.

Oh please. This is about what Ashley wrote. If you want to talk about your own personal groups do that elsewhere. What she described sucks.

We are in the relationship forum not the entertainment forum. This is talking about women groups in general.

Ashley, just needs to relax. People are mean I could write 20 articles about mean women I’ve met in the DC area.

Really? It’s not new. It’s not interesting.

Exactly. She wrote this article like she was me too’d. The mom group sounds like a cult. Just make a few friends and stop referring to yourself as a group.

One of my kids had a small preschool pod that was together for a few years. Us mom in the group bonded. We love seeing each other and some of our kids do some activities together, we have a what’s app group and sometimes get dinner. But some individuals are closer to each other than others and we all have other friends. What tisdale is whining about seems so immature. She’s 40 years old and doesn’t need her friend group to be everything in life, and even weirder to use her kids as a vehicle for it.

Sounds a bit hypocritical coming from someone with a group based around preschoolers. Find your own friends and leave the kids out if it.

We don’t have a “group.” We like each other and stay in touch and get dinner sometimes. We all have our own lives and friends outside of it and there’s no “Queen bee” dynamic.

The irritating parts of this saga are:

- grown women acting like they’re in middle school and having a “clique” that does everything together
- grown women behaving like their life revolves around said clique
- rejected clique member feeling so infuriated by her self proclaimed “drama” that they feel the need to expose it on a public way.

Hilary duff and Mandy Moore may be catty (who knows? Not me) but tisdale stirring the pot by creating tabloid fodder - all while framing this like a vanity fair assault expose - also tells you a lot about her level of self absorption as a person.

Pp again. And to add to that, I’d say that everything about duff and Mandy Moore is heresay, based on tisdales account. The only thing we actually know for sure is that tisdale is enough of a drama queen to publish this self absorbed, tone deaf article about a saga of her own creation.

I don’t think you can say it’s all just Ashley Tisdale airing random grievances and “what’s the other side of the story” when Hilary Duff’s husband stepped in, guns a blazin. Now Hilary (and her husband) both look kind of crazy and guilty. They could have stayed out of it and the whole thing would have blown over in a day or two, now look what we’re all talking about.

This. The messiest move here has been Duff's husband attacking Ashley directly, basically confirming for everyone that Hillary is part of the "toxic mom group" even as Ashley was denying that there were other famous moms in the group she was talking about.

Also, just a general pet peeve -- there is no "hearsay" here. It's not court. IRL, people can talk about their experiences and you can decide whether or not you trust their account or not, but there's no rule that you can't share things that other people may have said or done to you. Which, by the way, Tisdale didn't even do because she doesn't even say who any of the moms in her mom group were and she's not actually accusing anyone of anything.

I'm sorry, did you read the article? She's definitely accusing people of being petty, mean, toxic, exclusive, etc. If what she said wasn't bad at all then no one would be talking about it...

You have to name names to accuse people. She was purposefully vague. If her former friends recognized themselves they should have just said they don’t know her or have any idea what she’s talking about if asked. Not do what Mr Duff did.

So they should have...lied?

And no, you don't have to name names to accuse people. It's like when a celebrity says something bad about a co-star. It's not like they're talking about someone else on the planet - they're clearly talking about a defined group of people.

You don’t think celebs lie all the time? It’s what they do. They deny dating rumors, break up rumors, rumors about being difficult on set or having beef with co-stars. Yes, they lie.

Everyone lies. But I find it odd that you're saying that the proper reaction to Ashley's article was to lie. That's...interesting.

In their eyes it would almost certainly just be a denial. To Ashley it might appear to be a lie. She felt iced out and ignored. They might say they just didn’t like her becasue of x, y, z. They likely have a different take. So it’s not a lie but a different interpretation so they “don’t know what she’s talking about” or “aren’t friends” . It’s really not that hard. Do you often see things in black and white?

[Anonymous]

Just like when the pretty girl gets excluded by the other mean girls at the best lunch table in middle school, this group pulled the same on a former actress. Women can be the worst to other women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just like when the pretty girl gets excluded by the other mean girls at the best lunch table in middle school, this group pulled the same on a former actress. Women can be the worst to other women.

I think they probably just didn’t like her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just like when the pretty girl gets excluded by the other mean girls at the best lunch table in middle school, this group pulled the same on a former actress. Women can be the worst to other women.

All the women named are famously pretty. I think the interpersonal dynamics are probably a bit more complex than all my haterz jus jellus.

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Anonymous wrote:Tisdale’s article appeared on my newsfeed today right next to the headlines about Tatiana schlossberg’s funeral and untimely death from aggressive cancer. A stark contrast and a reminder of how completely asinine and unimportant this entire topic is. It’s pedantic that cliques exist amongst grown adults and attention and validation seeking that tisdale would write an article about it. People lack perspective on what’s important in life.

Of course it seems unimportant compared to someone dying at a young age from cancer. 99% of this website is unimportant compared to that.

But friendships, finding support as a mom, and just generally having community are actually very important.

Which you can do without the friend “group” angle. Your own mom, or other women who have raised kids and share their wisdom and advice, coworkers, one-on-one friends. There’s so many ways to have the support and community, without the “group” part of it.

Many, many women find themselves in Mom groups. They want to know other moms in the neighborhood with babies the same age. This isn't remotely weird or odd.

The “group” idea is odd. Most people find 1-2 people they like in a group.

In a class of people you find 1-2 friends.
On a sports team you find 1-2 friends.
At work you find 1-2 friends.

The idea you will find a group where every single person is close friends is not real life.

Ok? But in that group are people pointedly excluding you, being weird and sitting you far away from the rest of the group, making plans in front of you? We don't all have to be friends but some of these women went out of their way to be jerks. It's not that hard to be nice at a kid's birthday party and not you know, invite all the other girlies for something like a brunch the next day in front of the hostess and not include her.

In a class we break into groups and yes I’m not part of every group. In school at lunch the lunch tables are harder to join than sororities. I’m not invited to every study group. In sports I’m not always invited to get food after practice, I don’t sit with certain people at pre-game dinners.

I go to birthday parties and don’t talk to every parent.

Your taking this not talk about something too far. It reminds me of the movie Booksmart where nobody’s allowed to talk about what school they got into because it might hurt somebody’s feelings.

Here’s the reality people are doing things without you. Some people have more money than you. Some people go on vacation vacations with friends and you’re not invited. You’re not invited to every brunch.

Find your one or two friends and do something with them.

Oh please. This is about what Ashley wrote. If you want to talk about your own personal groups do that elsewhere. What she described sucks.

We are in the relationship forum not the entertainment forum. This is talking about women groups in general.

Ashley, just needs to relax. People are mean I could write 20 articles about mean women I’ve met in the DC area.

Really? It’s not new. It’s not interesting.

Exactly. She wrote this article like she was me too’d. The mom group sounds like a cult. Just make a few friends and stop referring to yourself as a group.

One of my kids had a small preschool pod that was together for a few years. Us mom in the group bonded. We love seeing each other and some of our kids do some activities together, we have a what’s app group and sometimes get dinner. But some individuals are closer to each other than others and we all have other friends. What tisdale is whining about seems so immature. She’s 40 years old and doesn’t need her friend group to be everything in life, and even weirder to use her kids as a vehicle for it.

Sounds a bit hypocritical coming from someone with a group based around preschoolers. Find your own friends and leave the kids out if it.

We don’t have a “group.” We like each other and stay in touch and get dinner sometimes. We all have our own lives and friends outside of it and there’s no “Queen bee” dynamic.

The irritating parts of this saga are:

- grown women acting like they’re in middle school and having a “clique” that does everything together
- grown women behaving like their life revolves around said clique
- rejected clique member feeling so infuriated by her self proclaimed “drama” that they feel the need to expose it on a public way.

Hilary duff and Mandy Moore may be catty (who knows? Not me) but tisdale stirring the pot by creating tabloid fodder - all while framing this like a vanity fair assault expose - also tells you a lot about her level of self absorption as a person.

Pp again. And to add to that, I’d say that everything about duff and Mandy Moore is heresay, based on tisdales account. The only thing we actually know for sure is that tisdale is enough of a drama queen to publish this self absorbed, tone deaf article about a saga of her own creation.

I don’t think you can say it’s all just Ashley Tisdale airing random grievances and “what’s the other side of the story” when Hilary Duff’s husband stepped in, guns a blazin. Now Hilary (and her husband) both look kind of crazy and guilty. They could have stayed out of it and the whole thing would have blown over in a day or two, now look what we’re all talking about.

This. The messiest move here has been Duff's husband attacking Ashley directly, basically confirming for everyone that Hillary is part of the "toxic mom group" even as Ashley was denying that there were other famous moms in the group she was talking about.

Also, just a general pet peeve -- there is no "hearsay" here. It's not court. IRL, people can talk about their experiences and you can decide whether or not you trust their account or not, but there's no rule that you can't share things that other people may have said or done to you. Which, by the way, Tisdale didn't even do because she doesn't even say who any of the moms in her mom group were and she's not actually accusing anyone of anything.

I'm sorry, did you read the article? She's definitely accusing people of being petty, mean, toxic, exclusive, etc. If what she said wasn't bad at all then no one would be talking about it...

She didn't name names. She also doesn't just name call. She's not saying "ugh all the women in this group were petty, mean, toxic, and exclusive." Rather, she describes her personal experience of feeling excluded or left out, and many people concluded upon reading it "oh that is mean". She calls the group and its dynamics toxic (which, based on what we continue to find out, appears to be spot on) but says she thinks the women *in* the group are mostly good people caught in a negative dynamic. The meanest thing she says is that she thinks one of the women in the group might not be a good person, but she doesn't say who that woman is nor does she describe anything specifically this woman did that might provide hints as to who it is.

I read the piece when it came out and I didn't think "wow she's really calling these women out." My first thought was "yeah it is too bad when women get caught up in those dynamics -- I've been stuck in dynamics like that before and it sucks." I viewed it as a criticism of how women in general sometimes relate to each other, and not an attack on specific women at all.

Weird take, but ok. If she was fine with all the women, like you seem to claim, then why couldn't they have either ironed out their differences or left on a good note? Better yet, why couldn't they all have written a joint article about the ways in which groups of really nice women can somehow become toxic when all of them are so nice?

It doesn't sound like the other women had any interest in ironing out differences or ending on a good note. Her description of the dynamic is that she felt excluded from activities and sidelined in general, but that when she reached out to say she was feeling hurt, people said things like "oh we just assumed you were invited" or that they forgot.

I've been through this and that's part of the power play. They ignore you and exclude you, and if you say "hey it seems like people are upset with me but I don't know why, can we talk about it?" and everyone says "we have no idea what you're talking about, don't be so sensitive" and then it just continues. There is no closure, just a general feeling of rejection, and that is by design. They think no one can criticize them for their actions because they've gone out of their way to do the whole thing passively and under the cover of "oops I just just forgot to invite you."