Breaking up with my toxic mom group (Ashley Tisdale essay)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I noticed in all the group photos the news sites posted, Hilary Duff was usually in the front or center. The people standing around Hilary have their bodies leaning towards her. Ashley was usually on the side, her leaning away from the group. Based on their body language, Hilary seemed to be the leader of the group, while Ashley was the fringe friend. However, this doesn't show who was the nice or mean one.

Given that most of the non-celebrities were stylists, makeup artists, or hairstylists, it makes sense that they would fawn over the most famous ones of the group.

Are the stylists and makeup artists in the group just using the famous ones to promote themselves? I'm sensing a parasite-host relationship here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I noticed in all the group photos the news sites posted, Hilary Duff was usually in the front or center. The people standing around Hilary have their bodies leaning towards her. Ashley was usually on the side, her leaning away from the group. Based on their body language, Hilary seemed to be the leader of the group, while Ashley was the fringe friend. However, this doesn't show who was the nice or mean one.

Given that most of the non-celebrities were stylists, makeup artists, or hairstylists, it makes sense that they would fawn over the most famous ones of the group.

Are the stylists and makeup artists in the group just using the famous ones to promote themselves? I'm sensing a parasite-host relationship here.

To clarify my earlier comment, there was one makeup artist in the group, one cook book author, an entrepreneur, a content creator, etc. The hair stylist was tagged in a different photo with their shared kids but not mentioned by the media. It seems like they were all wealthy moms to begin with, so they probably didn't need to piggy-back off their friends' fame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t do drama and as a result only have a few friends. If I get the sense from you that you like to whip up drama or are one of those people who drama seems to just coincidentally always find, I am going to quietly exit that relationship. You will likely not even notice because you have moved on to your next drama.

This! You can spot these people from a mile away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I noticed in all the group photos the news sites posted, Hilary Duff was usually in the front or center. The people standing around Hilary have their bodies leaning towards her. Ashley was usually on the side, her leaning away from the group. Based on their body language, Hilary seemed to be the leader of the group, while Ashley was the fringe friend. However, this doesn't show who was the nice or mean one.

Given that most of the non-celebrities were stylists, makeup artists, or hairstylists, it makes sense that they would fawn over the most famous ones of the group.

Are the stylists and makeup artists in the group just using the famous ones to promote themselves? I'm sensing a parasite-host relationship here.

To clarify my earlier comment, there was one makeup artist in the group, one cook book author, an entrepreneur, a content creator, etc. The hair stylist was tagged in a different photo with their shared kids but not mentioned by the media. It seems like they were all wealthy moms to begin with, so they probably didn't need to piggy-back off their friends' fame.

That's not remotely true. You can never have enough money. They are never content, that's why they are mompreneurs, writing cook books and trying to find the next big thing. Better yet if your friends can hook you up and introduce you to the right people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White people drama! Tee hee! So entertaining.

D-Lister drama. That's what makes it so fun to watch and make fun of. D-Listers who think they are A-List.

Meryl Streep would NEVER, chile.

You’d be surprised by who is and is not insecure.

Meryl Streep no. But other A listers yes.

It comes down to security. There are good relationships from A to Z listers too.

Social media overuse and buccal fat pad removal is a pretty good indicator of how insecure someone is. Slightly off topic but whoever first convinced people to remove the part of their face that makes them look youthful is diabolical. Snatched cheeks is the ugliest "beauty" trend ever.

Agree the buccal fat removal is idiotic. As someone who is naturally very thin without a ton of volume in my cheeks, and is in my 40s, I am aware of how rapidly this make you look gaunt or skeletal. TBH I am fine with it -- it's just how my face looks and sometimes I embrace it and sometimes I kind of conceal it with makeup tricks. I went through a period where I felt very self-conscious about it (after I found out a neighbor had referred to me as "severe-looking" -- ouch). But in the end I think that was good because after feeling hurt and sad about it for awhile, I just decided to embrace my inner middle-age-witch and accept that some people might think I look severe or older. Whatever. Maybe if they are scared of me they'll be less likely to piss me off.

All that said, I have come to the conclusion that almost everyone is insecure at least sometimes, and that the real measure of people is how they deal with it. I think this "cool mom group" business is people dealing with it by looking for safety in numbers, but also trying to hide behind their friends a little bit. The older you get, the more I think people need to stand on their own. It's one thing to be in a "girl group" in HS or your 20s when you are figuring out who you are. By your 40s I think most of your friendships should be more 1:1, you should be letting go of this idea that you need some kind of tribe to belong to, and especially if you have kids, your identity should feel a bit more independent. You should not need to dress the same as all your friends (or have the same hair or the same face) just to feel okay with yourself. It just strikes me as immature and fearful. What's the worst that happens if you just stand on your own? Your neighbor calls you severe-looking and the neighborhood kids thing you are a witch. Oh well, lean into it. Maybe I am a witch. Maybe I'm brewing up a potion right now. Better not block my driveway, right? [cackle cackle cackle]

I disagree. I have conversations frequently with people that feel odd. Usually, it washes out, but when it’s the same person repeatedly, I wonder why it feels odd, and I notice it’s because they want me to feel a certain way: about my house, car, kids. It’s strange too, because some of these people seem to want to be friends. But they don’t seem to get trying to impress people about things they don’t care about isn’t a great strategy? I’m not friends with people like that.

I do have many girlfriend groups. We get silly sometimes. It’s fun. It’s not that deep. Many of my friend groups have lasted decades. None of them care one bit about being “cool.”

I can’t imagine any of my friend groups inviting Ashley Tisdale though. Who wants to manage her feelings during their free time?

Her feelings? She's just trying to hang out with her friends. But they made it weird by excluding her, sitting her far away. acting weird when she asked point blank what was up. Seems the friends were going out of their way to make things difficult. Not very fitting for cool moms who probably wanted to pretend they were chill and relaxed when actually they had very rigid conformity rules.

That's it. They want the appearance of being inclusive and fun and chill without actually being that unless you perfectly fit the mold. This is everywhere though. Not just moms groups.

[Anonymous]

My kids are grown, but I always rode solo and never had a "mom group". I tried once or twice, but the women in these groups are vipers. They love to talk about the one mom who isn't there. If they talk smack about her, then they're talking smack about you, too. You can have it. I don't trust most other women, they're mean girls. Men are much nicer and more fair in their dealings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids are grown, but I always rode solo and never had a "mom group". I tried once or twice, but the women in these groups are vipers. They love to talk about the one mom who isn't there. If they talk smack about her, then they're talking smack about you, too. You can have it. I don't trust most other women, they're mean girls. Men are much nicer and more fair in their dealings.

I've been in several groups of women, mostly all moms, and never encountered this. I do wonder about those of you who think all groups of women are like this when many of us have been able to find multiple groups that aren't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White people drama! Tee hee! So entertaining.

D-Lister drama. That's what makes it so fun to watch and make fun of. D-Listers who think they are A-List.

Meryl Streep would NEVER, chile.

You’d be surprised by who is and is not insecure.

Meryl Streep no. But other A listers yes.

It comes down to security. There are good relationships from A to Z listers too.

Social media overuse and buccal fat pad removal is a pretty good indicator of how insecure someone is. Slightly off topic but whoever first convinced people to remove the part of their face that makes them look youthful is diabolical. Snatched cheeks is the ugliest "beauty" trend ever.

Agree the buccal fat removal is idiotic. As someone who is naturally very thin without a ton of volume in my cheeks, and is in my 40s, I am aware of how rapidly this make you look gaunt or skeletal. TBH I am fine with it -- it's just how my face looks and sometimes I embrace it and sometimes I kind of conceal it with makeup tricks. I went through a period where I felt very self-conscious about it (after I found out a neighbor had referred to me as "severe-looking" -- ouch). But in the end I think that was good because after feeling hurt and sad about it for awhile, I just decided to embrace my inner middle-age-witch and accept that some people might think I look severe or older. Whatever. Maybe if they are scared of me they'll be less likely to piss me off.

All that said, I have come to the conclusion that almost everyone is insecure at least sometimes, and that the real measure of people is how they deal with it. I think this "cool mom group" business is people dealing with it by looking for safety in numbers, but also trying to hide behind their friends a little bit. The older you get, the more I think people need to stand on their own. It's one thing to be in a "girl group" in HS or your 20s when you are figuring out who you are. By your 40s I think most of your friendships should be more 1:1, you should be letting go of this idea that you need some kind of tribe to belong to, and especially if you have kids, your identity should feel a bit more independent. You should not need to dress the same as all your friends (or have the same hair or the same face) just to feel okay with yourself. It just strikes me as immature and fearful. What's the worst that happens if you just stand on your own? Your neighbor calls you severe-looking and the neighborhood kids thing you are a witch. Oh well, lean into it. Maybe I am a witch. Maybe I'm brewing up a potion right now. Better not block my driveway, right? [cackle cackle cackle]

I disagree. I have conversations frequently with people that feel odd. Usually, it washes out, but when it’s the same person repeatedly, I wonder why it feels odd, and I notice it’s because they want me to feel a certain way: about my house, car, kids. It’s strange too, because some of these people seem to want to be friends. But they don’t seem to get trying to impress people about things they don’t care about isn’t a great strategy? I’m not friends with people like that.

I do have many girlfriend groups. We get silly sometimes. It’s fun. It’s not that deep. Many of my friend groups have lasted decades. None of them care one bit about being “cool.”

I can’t imagine any of my friend groups inviting Ashley Tisdale though. Who wants to manage her feelings during their free time?

Her feelings? She's just trying to hang out with her friends. But they made it weird by excluding her, sitting her far away. acting weird when she asked point blank what was up. Seems the friends were going out of their way to make things difficult. Not very fitting for cool moms who probably wanted to pretend they were chill and relaxed when actually they had very rigid conformity rules.

That's it. They want the appearance of being inclusive and fun and chill without actually being that unless you perfectly fit the mold. This is everywhere though. Not just moms groups.

Yes to this. I've never had a friend group like this but I did once work in a place like this. The people there were always patting themselves on the back so hard for being inclusive and caring about each other "like family" but really it was a clique of people who all think the exact same way, and anyone different was gossiped about and frozen out at work until they gave up and quit. It was the hypocrisy that bugged me. If you want to be judgmental and exclusive, fine, but I don't them want to listen to you blather on about how open minded and welcoming you are.

Narcissists tend to lack this kind of self awareness though.

[Anonymous]

Hilary Duff and her sister, Haylie, have some kind of rift/feud. Apparently Haylie “liked” Tisdale’s post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids are grown, but I always rode solo and never had a "mom group". I tried once or twice, but the women in these groups are vipers. They love to talk about the one mom who isn't there. If they talk smack about her, then they're talking smack about you, too. You can have it. I don't trust most other women, they're mean girls. Men are much nicer and more fair in their dealings.

I was in 3 different mom groups because we moved around a bit when our kids were small. Everyone was really nice, though when I joined a group with older toddlers it was hard to mesh as a new person because everyone had bonded during babyhood. I never experienced this gossipy/backstabbing behavior. There are plenty of kind women out there!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids are grown, but I always rode solo and never had a "mom group". I tried once or twice, but the women in these groups are vipers. They love to talk about the one mom who isn't there. If they talk smack about her, then they're talking smack about you, too. You can have it. I don't trust most other women, they're mean girls. Men are much nicer and more fair in their dealings.

Oh sweet summer child. That’s just because you don’t hear what they talk like when no women are around.