Do you think DOGE will eliminate remote policy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Elon Musk cannot single handedly do anything, and certainly not increase workdays by two hours, nor fire people who refuse to RTO, or eliminate entire federal agencies whose unions will fight this in court.

Can Trump sign an executive order limiting telework/remote work? Yes, but even that will have to be implemented within certain parameters, will be fought in court etc. no one is going to the office full time for ten hours on Jan 21. Get a grip.

Hopefully by the end of the term this will be a reality though.

Why would you be hopeful about this?

Because they hate feds.

I'm a lawyer, they don't pay me enough to work those hours, I would just quit and go to a firm for those hours.

But here's the deal: you don't want people like me to quit. Those of us who have options are also the people who get stuff done efficiently.

THIS. That last sentence is so true.

If you are a fed lawyer who only works 40 hours a week, your options in private practice likely aren't as plentiful as you think they are.

It's amazing how every single government lawyer is convinced that they can leave the government and find a higher paying job in the private sector - they are very much in demand, you see and only in the government because of the mission/benefits/family friendly schedule/hours/WTH/etc. And sure, some of you will be rock stars. But more of you will crash and burn, if you can get a job at all.

The majority of lawyers in federal government started their careers in private practice, because very few agencies hire right out of law school. It's not like we're unfamiliar with law firms.

100% this. The lawyers at my agency are so hardworking, and almost all of them came from big law (with massive pay cuts as a trade off).

If DOGE makes it miserable for them to work, the younger ones have already voiced they’re going to go back to private, and the older ones only plan to stay as long as they can to retire.

But there will be less legal work available with business friendly Trump and a shrunken govt

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Elon Musk cannot single handedly do anything, and certainly not increase workdays by two hours, nor fire people who refuse to RTO, or eliminate entire federal agencies whose unions will fight this in court.

Can Trump sign an executive order limiting telework/remote work? Yes, but even that will have to be implemented within certain parameters, will be fought in court etc. no one is going to the office full time for ten hours on Jan 21. Get a grip.

Hopefully by the end of the term this will be a reality though.

Why would you be hopeful about this?

Because they hate feds.

I'm a lawyer, they don't pay me enough to work those hours, I would just quit and go to a firm for those hours.

But here's the deal: you don't want people like me to quit. Those of us who have options are also the people who get stuff done efficiently.

THIS. That last sentence is so true.

If you are a fed lawyer who only works 40 hours a week, your options in private practice likely aren't as plentiful as you think they are.

It's amazing how every single government lawyer is convinced that they can leave the government and find a higher paying job in the private sector - they are very much in demand, you see and only in the government because of the mission/benefits/family friendly schedule/hours/WTH/etc. And sure, some of you will be rock stars. But more of you will crash and burn, if you can get a job at all.

The majority of lawyers in federal government started their careers in private practice, because very few agencies hire right out of law school. It's not like we're unfamiliar with law firms.

100% this. The lawyers at my agency are so hardworking, and almost all of them came from big law (with massive pay cuts as a trade off).

If DOGE makes it miserable for them to work, the younger ones have already voiced they’re going to go back to private, and the older ones only plan to stay as long as they can to retire.

To support an earlier poster, not all fedgov lawyers (even those with prior private practice experince) will have the option to go back to biglaw. First, yes, biglaw pays more, but the incrmental benefit of the higher salary probably won't materialize until a fedgov lawyer starts working 50-60 hrs/week in fedgov. Before that, just stay and work more. Moves into biglaw are disruptive, and you are going to be expected to work 55 hours minimum (unless you get equity, which is highly, highly unlikey for all but about 1% of fedgov). And your hours are going to be monitored, and your transition to the commercial aspects of private practice will take time, etc. Don't just jump for more money. You will be a target, and from my experience, those making the jump after being in fedgov for more than 3-4 years just cannot make the transiton back.

Second, a lot of fedgov lawyers I know saw others make the jump for big paydays and think they can replicate that. Those slots are gone. Gone. And the law firms wo made those bets are still waiting to see if they pan out, so there's not a lot of appetite to do it again. Plus, a Trump adminstration just won't require the same insider expertise that usually commands the biglaw premium. And, if there is this much glut such that any significant number of fedgov lawyers will look to jump, biglaw will price accordingly.

Hey, shoot your shot, but in my personal experience hiring out of fedgov (think banking/securities), biglaw is not clamoring for this talent, and certainly isn't paying top dollar for it. And for those who do make the jump, it is more like a $600K counsel role with a wait-and-see approach to partnership. or a NEP track (whcih is the same thing, different title).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Hey, shoot your shot, but in my personal experience hiring out of fedgov (think banking/securities), biglaw is not clamoring for this talent, and certainly isn't paying top dollar for it. And for those who do make the jump, it is more like a $600K counsel role with a wait-and-see approach to partnership. or a NEP track (whcih is the same thing, different title).

$600k is still 3x higher than what feds are earning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Elon Musk cannot single handedly do anything, and certainly not increase workdays by two hours, nor fire people who refuse to RTO, or eliminate entire federal agencies whose unions will fight this in court.

Can Trump sign an executive order limiting telework/remote work? Yes, but even that will have to be implemented within certain parameters, will be fought in court etc. no one is going to the office full time for ten hours on Jan 21. Get a grip.

Hopefully by the end of the term this will be a reality though.

Why would you be hopeful about this?

Because they hate feds.

I'm a lawyer, they don't pay me enough to work those hours, I would just quit and go to a firm for those hours.

But here's the deal: you don't want people like me to quit. Those of us who have options are also the people who get stuff done efficiently.

THIS. That last sentence is so true.

If you are a fed lawyer who only works 40 hours a week, your options in private practice likely aren't as plentiful as you think they are.

It's amazing how every single government lawyer is convinced that they can leave the government and find a higher paying job in the private sector - they are very much in demand, you see and only in the government because of the mission/benefits/family friendly schedule/hours/WTH/etc. And sure, some of you will be rock stars. But more of you will crash and burn, if you can get a job at all.

Yes - I’m a Fed lawyer with what, in theory, appears to be a highly transferable skill and knowledge set. But I’ve been a Fed for over a decade and private law practice just has a different tenor that would require a huge adjustment on my part. I’m under no illusions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Hey, shoot your shot, but in my personal experience hiring out of fedgov (think banking/securities), biglaw is not clamoring for this talent, and certainly isn't paying top dollar for it. And for those who do make the jump, it is more like a $600K counsel role with a wait-and-see approach to partnership. or a NEP track (whcih is the same thing, different title).

$600k is still 3x higher than what feds are earning.

Yeah - most the feds looking to jump are not aiming for equity parter, or partner at all. Of course, even of-counsel slots seem slim. But it does happen and you know best how you are positioned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Hey, shoot your shot, but in my personal experience hiring out of fedgov (think banking/securities), biglaw is not clamoring for this talent, and certainly isn't paying top dollar for it. And for those who do make the jump, it is more like a $600K counsel role with a wait-and-see approach to partnership. or a NEP track (whcih is the same thing, different title).

$600k is still 3x higher than what feds are earning.

Yes, but it will require 20 more hours per week, which will feel like 10x current effort. Don't underestimate how significant the emotional transiiton is due to significantly different pace, expectations, and the winner-take-all profitibility model of biglaw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Hey, shoot your shot, but in my personal experience hiring out of fedgov (think banking/securities), biglaw is not clamoring for this talent, and certainly isn't paying top dollar for it. And for those who do make the jump, it is more like a $600K counsel role with a wait-and-see approach to partnership. or a NEP track (whcih is the same thing, different title).

$600k is still 3x higher than what feds are earning.

Yes, but it will require 20 more hours per week, which will feel like 10x current effort. Don't underestimate how significant the emotional transiiton is due to significantly different pace, expectations, and the winner-take-all profitibility model of biglaw.

PP (same poster). Look, not trying to dissuade anyone. I made this move over 20 years ago and it worked out very well for me. Just go into it eyes wide open, especially if you have a family. IME, the biglaw spouse/partner cannot (or does not) contribute equally, so just have a frank discussion with your spouse/partner about how biglaw will invade pretty much every aspect of your current family set up.

[Anonymous]

My office just extended its 100% wfh home pilot. Surprising... hopefully it will not be changed. They said it was to ensure operations continue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Hey, shoot your shot, but in my personal experience hiring out of fedgov (think banking/securities), biglaw is not clamoring for this talent, and certainly isn't paying top dollar for it. And for those who do make the jump, it is more like a $600K counsel role with a wait-and-see approach to partnership. or a NEP track (whcih is the same thing, different title).

$600k is still 3x higher than what feds are earning.

Yes, but it will require 20 more hours per week, which will feel like 10x current effort. Don't underestimate how significant the emotional transiiton is due to significantly different pace, expectations, and the winner-take-all profitibility model of biglaw.

+1. It’s up or out. If you’re fortunate enough to get a position you won’t be able to coast. You’ll need to prove yourself by working long, miserable hours. Government affairs at a F50 would pay less but offer better balance. Although it might be a wash when you consider pension, healthcare benefits, job security, and potentially needing to be hybrid or in person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Elon Musk cannot single handedly do anything, and certainly not increase workdays by two hours, nor fire people who refuse to RTO, or eliminate entire federal agencies whose unions will fight this in court.

Can Trump sign an executive order limiting telework/remote work? Yes, but even that will have to be implemented within certain parameters, will be fought in court etc. no one is going to the office full time for ten hours on Jan 21. Get a grip.

Hopefully by the end of the term this will be a reality though.

Why would you be hopeful about this?

Because they hate feds.

I'm a lawyer, they don't pay me enough to work those hours, I would just quit and go to a firm for those hours.

But here's the deal: you don't want people like me to quit. Those of us who have options are also the people who get stuff done efficiently.

THIS. That last sentence is so true.

If you are a fed lawyer who only works 40 hours a week, your options in private practice likely aren't as plentiful as you think they are.

It's amazing how every single government lawyer is convinced that they can leave the government and find a higher paying job in the private sector - they are very much in demand, you see and only in the government because of the mission/benefits/family friendly schedule/hours/WTH/etc. And sure, some of you will be rock stars. But more of you will crash and burn, if you can get a job at all.

The majority of lawyers in federal government started their careers in private practice, because very few agencies hire right out of law school. It's not like we're unfamiliar with law firms.

100% this. The lawyers at my agency are so hardworking, and almost all of them came from big law (with massive pay cuts as a trade off).

If DOGE makes it miserable for them to work, the younger ones have already voiced they’re going to go back to private, and the older ones only plan to stay as long as they can to retire.

But there will be less legal work available with business friendly Trump and a shrunken govt

Just spit out my coffeeve! Legal work will only increase with the amount of change proposed. If you want to shrink the federal workforce, the best way to do that is to change nothing, but offer some early retirements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Hey, shoot your shot, but in my personal experience hiring out of fedgov (think banking/securities), biglaw is not clamoring for this talent, and certainly isn't paying top dollar for it. And for those who do make the jump, it is more like a $600K counsel role with a wait-and-see approach to partnership. or a NEP track (whcih is the same thing, different title).

$600k is still 3x higher than what feds are earning.

Yes, but it will require 20 more hours per week, which will feel like 10x current effort. Don't underestimate how significant the emotional transiiton is due to significantly different pace, expectations, and the winner-take-all profitibility model of biglaw.

3 times the money buys a lot of comfort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Elon Musk cannot single handedly do anything, and certainly not increase workdays by two hours, nor fire people who refuse to RTO, or eliminate entire federal agencies whose unions will fight this in court.

Can Trump sign an executive order limiting telework/remote work? Yes, but even that will have to be implemented within certain parameters, will be fought in court etc. no one is going to the office full time for ten hours on Jan 21. Get a grip.

Hopefully by the end of the term this will be a reality though.

Why would you be hopeful about this?

Because they hate feds.

I'm a lawyer, they don't pay me enough to work those hours, I would just quit and go to a firm for those hours.

But here's the deal: you don't want people like me to quit. Those of us who have options are also the people who get stuff done efficiently.

THIS. That last sentence is so true.

If you are a fed lawyer who only works 40 hours a week, your options in private practice likely aren't as plentiful as you think they are.

It's amazing how every single government lawyer is convinced that they can leave the government and find a higher paying job in the private sector - they are very much in demand, you see and only in the government because of the mission/benefits/family friendly schedule/hours/WTH/etc. And sure, some of you will be rock stars. But more of you will crash and burn, if you can get a job at all.

The majority of lawyers in federal government started their careers in private practice, because very few agencies hire right out of law school. It's not like we're unfamiliar with law firms.

100% this. The lawyers at my agency are so hardworking, and almost all of them came from big law (with massive pay cuts as a trade off).

If DOGE makes it miserable for them to work, the younger ones have already voiced they’re going to go back to private, and the older ones only plan to stay as long as they can to retire.

But there will be less legal work available with business friendly Trump and a shrunken govt

Just spit out my coffeeve! Legal work will only increase with the amount of change proposed. If you want to shrink the federal workforce, the best way to do that is to change nothing, but offer some early retirements.

I was going to say... last Trump administration we weren't able to get advice from our agency attorneys because they were all stuck in litigation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To those of you saying your depth has reduced office space—-what does this mean? Has the building been sold to a developer and your area is now a condo?

SSA is Baltimore based. DC based was in two leased buildings. The leases had already run and gone to year long extensions pre-COVID, but we can’t get and keep an actual Commissioner, so no decisions were made (we were along in CBA negations to go from 60 to 80% telework). Then COVID and we all went 100% telework. They let both leases go in 2021-2022. There is now a small presence in downtown DC. Very small. NBU goes in 1-2 times a week. There is no room for more. Not hundreds of employees once a week, lets alone daily. Most federal space is leased, not owned by GSA. Since our space is no longer leased, it has to go through procurement. They had been in procurement to move from the space we had for THREE YEARS when COVID hit ,while doing one year extensions try to find appropriate space.

Federal leasing on the scale that gets people who were always 60% telework back in 100% takes forever and has to follow a federal procurement policy and look at things like proximity to where workers live and public transport. That’s the law. It’s a wee bit harder than— hey— there is an empty building go there.

And here is who everyone but true destroyer the government does not want to quit— people who understand and can implement SSA Regs. Which are COMPLICATED. You and your 40:credits? Maybe not. But for every normal situation, there is a MQGE + green card holder became citizen who was employed for a while by a small business that went into bankruptcy and didn’t comply with FICA. Because mostly I untangle and write justifications for very complicated, odd income stream, weird retirement situations and get people their benefits.

To do this technical, specialized legal stuff. When I start, 4-5 hours can pass, and I haven’t moved or noticed the time (which I need to stop doing, because it’s killing my body as I get older). I always thought 1 day in office a PP would be perfect for face to face meetings and training. The rest of the time? I’m ADHD. I was never able to do my technical writing in the office. It’s too complex and has too many distractions. So I did 90% of my work in the 60% telework part of my week. Now, I do significantly more in 5 days at home. I also work longer hours, because stopping something complex before it’s done is annoying. And I have extra time because no commute. I it in for credit. But I usually end up going over the 24 hours I can bank pretty fast, and taxpayers get free work.

I have zero public contact. And I have a meeting with my PL every other week and my manager once a month, plus a branch meeting once a month. Those would be nice in person. Training should be in person some. Training via Teams makes me want to poke my eye out. Everything else? Going in just slows me down.

OK, I know everyone thinks they are special and important, but the PP apparently believes that interpreting SSA regulations is so complicated (sorry, COMPLICATED) and difficult that only a very few people can do it, and if she leaves federal employment that skill will be lost forever. Dozens, maybe even scores of people each year will not get their benefits! Come on. They'll just hire some (other) moderately intelligent TTT law school graduate, train him or her for 3 weeks, and the benefits office will keep on chugging along. And that's if PP can even find another job, with her highly specialized skill set which has virtually no applilcation (and especially no lucrative application) in the private sector.

The vast majority of SSA employees who process SSA benefits are not attorneys. The ones who are attorneys work alongside paralegals who perform the same work as them.

[Anonymous]

Back to the original question. I’m working with the Trump transition team at my agency and they have asked for telework and remote work agreements as well as lists and counts of employees with either arrangement. They are absolutely going to be targeting this in some way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Hey, shoot your shot, but in my personal experience hiring out of fedgov (think banking/securities), biglaw is not clamoring for this talent, and certainly isn't paying top dollar for it. And for those who do make the jump, it is more like a $600K counsel role with a wait-and-see approach to partnership. or a NEP track (whcih is the same thing, different title).

$600k is still 3x higher than what feds are earning.

Yes, but it will require 20 more hours per week, which will feel like 10x current effort. Don't underestimate how significant the emotional transiiton is due to significantly different pace, expectations, and the winner-take-all profitibility model of biglaw.

3 times the money buys a lot of comfort.

PP. yes, it does. And that was my primary motivator for making the jump and it worked out for me. But I was able to grind it out and build a practice. And I have a DW who was fully on board with the commitment and the collateral consequences. We have 3 kids. I miss some of their events, I’m not always available to help with homework or other school things. I take calls during drop off and while driving to (and sometimes at) their sports events. I’ve never been on a vacation where I haven’t had some work emergency I had to take care of (by stepping away from whatever event or vacation thing we were doing).

Yes, the money made a huge difference, but the cost might not be worth it to everyone. Figure that part out for yourself, then best of luck whichever way you choose.