The Cass Review Final Report

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:No, I didn’t read it because I’m not obsessed about what other families choose to do with their medical decisions—especially ones approved by the American Association of Pediatrics.

Did you know that vaccines cause autism? I read it somewhere. It must be true.

So just because a family approves of a certain treatment for gender dysphoria, we all have to shut up, regardless of the harm it may cause? What about faith healing parents who deny their children medical care because it's "against their religion"? Should they be excused?

If it's not YOUR kid, shut up. There are a lot of things I disagree with other parents about. It's not your business and ask yourself why you're so obsessed with this instead of the thousand other medical decisions parents make for and with their children.

Children are taken from homes and sent into foster care for less. The bottom line is that children cannot consent to life altering surgery and drugs.

And there you have it.

They want to make it illegal to support transgender kids.

.

What exactly does “support” trans kids mean to you?

To me, it means helping them sort through their gender issues and helping them align with their thinking with their physical body, thus avoiding a lifetime of treatment as a medical patient

1. You do realize this was exactly the misguided idea behind conversion therapy that never worked and just caused trauma to gay people?

2. You do realize that most people have a “lifetime of treatment as a medical patient” as you describe it? Have you been on birth control? If so, you’ve basically been on what my kid is on. So where is the outcry over teens and older women on birth control or using HRT for perimenopause and menopause? And while we’re at it, better take away anti depressants, heart medication, diabetes, ADHD, etc….all the medications that people take throughout their lives.

Your SON - a male - is on female birth control hormones.

If I really have to explain to you what’s wrong with that you are beyond help.

No one GAF what the bigots think.

And there you have it, ladies and gentlemen.

Name calling and hostility is all they have left when confronted with the truth.

The misgendering post should have been removed since it violates the rules. But I think it’s a good reminder of who is posting all of this anti-trans crap.

Bigots.

It’s not anti-trans to point out the science is far from “settled.”

The misgendering post demonstrates who is really posting here.

[Anonymous]

PP again. I also wanted to add that if we had chosen inaction, she would have continued to develop the masculine features which were causing her so much distress. And that would have made it harder for her to pass and be seen as a woman in the world. Regardless of whether individual people perceive trans women as "real" women or not, the reality is that you are treated as people see you. And when they see my daughter, most people see a slender not too tall girl with long pretty hair. If we had chosen inaction, she later would have had to endure a lot more painful hair removal and possible facial surgeries. So, it is ironic to bemoan the idea that she would be on HRT but not that if she hadn't been she would likely have many more invasive interventions later--without any parental love or support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP again. I also wanted to add that if we had chosen inaction, she would have continued to develop the masculine features which were causing her so much distress. And that would have made it harder for her to pass and be seen as a woman in the world. Regardless of whether individual people perceive trans women as "real" women or not, the reality is that you are treated as people see you. And when they see my daughter, most people see a slender not too tall girl with long pretty hair. If we had chosen inaction, she later would have had to endure a lot more painful hair removal and possible facial surgeries. So, it is ironic to bemoan the idea that she would be on HRT but not that if she hadn't been she would likely have many more invasive interventions later--without any parental love or support.

I’m sorry and hope you both do well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I didn’t read it because I’m not obsessed about what other families choose to do with their medical decisions—especially ones approved by the American Association of Pediatrics.

Did you know that vaccines cause autism? I read it somewhere. It must be true.

So just because a family approves of a certain treatment for gender dysphoria, we all have to shut up, regardless of the harm it may cause? What about faith healing parents who deny their children medical care because it's "against their religion"? Should they be excused?

If it's not YOUR kid, shut up. There are a lot of things I disagree with other parents about. It's not your business and ask yourself why you're so obsessed with this instead of the thousand other medical decisions parents make for and with their children.

Children are taken from homes and sent into foster care for less. The bottom line is that children cannot consent to life altering surgery and drugs.

And there you have it.

They want to make it illegal to support transgender kids.

.

What exactly does “support” trans kids mean to you?

To me, it means helping them sort through their gender issues and helping them align with their thinking with their physical body, thus avoiding a lifetime of treatment as a medical patient

1. You do realize this was exactly the misguided idea behind conversion therapy that never worked and just caused trauma to gay people?

2. You do realize that most people have a “lifetime of treatment as a medical patient” as you describe it? Have you been on birth control? If so, you’ve basically been on what my kid is on. So where is the outcry over teens and older women on birth control or using HRT for perimenopause and menopause? And while we’re at it, better take away anti depressants, heart medication, diabetes, ADHD, etc….all the medications that people take throughout their lives.

Your SON - a male - is on female birth control hormones.

If I really have to explain to you what’s wrong with that you are beyond help.

No one GAF what the bigots think.

And there you have it, ladies and gentlemen.

Name calling and hostility is all they have left when confronted with the truth.

You misgendered her kid. WTF are you expecting in response?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP again. I also wanted to add that if we had chosen inaction, she would have continued to develop the masculine features which were causing her so much distress. And that would have made it harder for her to pass and be seen as a woman in the world. Regardless of whether individual people perceive trans women as "real" women or not, the reality is that you are treated as people see you. And when they see my daughter, most people see a slender not too tall girl with long pretty hair. If we had chosen inaction, she later would have had to endure a lot more painful hair removal and possible facial surgeries. So, it is ironic to bemoan the idea that she would be on HRT but not that if she hadn't been she would likely have many more invasive interventions later--without any parental love or support.

I’m sorry and hope you both do well.

She’s doing great. She’s going to a great college. She has friends. Still quirky! But happy! It’s no tragedy. My kid is alive and well. The packaging is just a little different. But thank you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I didn’t read it because I’m not obsessed about what other families choose to do with their medical decisions—especially ones approved by the American Association of Pediatrics.

Did you know that vaccines cause autism? I read it somewhere. It must be true.

So just because a family approves of a certain treatment for gender dysphoria, we all have to shut up, regardless of the harm it may cause? What about faith healing parents who deny their children medical care because it's "against their religion"? Should they be excused?

If it's not YOUR kid, shut up. There are a lot of things I disagree with other parents about. It's not your business and ask yourself why you're so obsessed with this instead of the thousand other medical decisions parents make for and with their children.

Children are taken from homes and sent into foster care for less. The bottom line is that children cannot consent to life altering surgery and drugs.

And there you have it.

They want to make it illegal to support transgender kids.

.

What exactly does “support” trans kids mean to you?

To me, it means helping them sort through their gender issues and helping them align with their thinking with their physical body, thus avoiding a lifetime of treatment as a medical patient

1. You do realize this was exactly the misguided idea behind conversion therapy that never worked and just caused trauma to gay people?

2. You do realize that most people have a “lifetime of treatment as a medical patient” as you describe it? Have you been on birth control? If so, you’ve basically been on what my kid is on. So where is the outcry over teens and older women on birth control or using HRT for perimenopause and menopause? And while we’re at it, better take away anti depressants, heart medication, diabetes, ADHD, etc….all the medications that people take throughout their lives.

Your SON - a male - is on female birth control hormones.

If I really have to explain to you what’s wrong with that you are beyond help.

No one GAF what the bigots think.

And there you have it, ladies and gentlemen.

Name calling and hostility is all they have left when confronted with the truth.

You misgendered her kid. WTF are you expecting in response?

I’m the PP who just talked about her kid. It wasn’t me who cursed. That was someone else. I did point out the OBVIOUS bigotry that I think was removed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I didn’t read it because I’m not obsessed about what other families choose to do with their medical decisions—especially ones approved by the American Association of Pediatrics.

Did you know that vaccines cause autism? I read it somewhere. It must be true.

So just because a family approves of a certain treatment for gender dysphoria, we all have to shut up, regardless of the harm it may cause? What about faith healing parents who deny their children medical care because it's "against their religion"? Should they be excused?

If it's not YOUR kid, shut up. There are a lot of things I disagree with other parents about. It's not your business and ask yourself why you're so obsessed with this instead of the thousand other medical decisions parents make for and with their children.

Children are taken from homes and sent into foster care for less. The bottom line is that children cannot consent to life altering surgery and drugs.

And there you have it.

They want to make it illegal to support transgender kids.

.

What exactly does “support” trans kids mean to you?

To me, it means helping them sort through their gender issues and helping them align with their thinking with their physical body, thus avoiding a lifetime of treatment as a medical patient

1. You do realize this was exactly the misguided idea behind conversion therapy that never worked and just caused trauma to gay people?

2. You do realize that most people have a “lifetime of treatment as a medical patient” as you describe it? Have you been on birth control? If so, you’ve basically been on what my kid is on. So where is the outcry over teens and older women on birth control or using HRT for perimenopause and menopause? And while we’re at it, better take away anti depressants, heart medication, diabetes, ADHD, etc….all the medications that people take throughout their lives.

Your SON - a male - is on female birth control hormones.

If I really have to explain to you what’s wrong with that you are beyond help.

No one GAF what the bigots think.

And there you have it, ladies and gentlemen.

Name calling and hostility is all they have left when confronted with the truth.

You misgendered her kid. WTF are you expecting in response?

I’m the PP who just talked about her kid. It wasn’t me who cursed. That was someone else. I did point out the OBVIOUS bigotry that I think was removed.

I’m replying to the person who replied to you. Have a good one!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I didn’t read it because I’m not obsessed about what other families choose to do with their medical decisions—especially ones approved by the American Association of Pediatrics.

Did you know that vaccines cause autism? I read it somewhere. It must be true.

So just because a family approves of a certain treatment for gender dysphoria, we all have to shut up, regardless of the harm it may cause? What about faith healing parents who deny their children medical care because it's "against their religion"? Should they be excused?

If it's not YOUR kid, shut up. There are a lot of things I disagree with other parents about. It's not your business and ask yourself why you're so obsessed with this instead of the thousand other medical decisions parents make for and with their children.

Children are taken from homes and sent into foster care for less. The bottom line is that children cannot consent to life altering surgery and drugs.

And there you have it.

They want to make it illegal to support transgender kids.

.

What exactly does “support” trans kids mean to you?

To me, it means helping them sort through their gender issues and helping them align with their thinking with their physical body, thus avoiding a lifetime of treatment as a medical patient

1. You do realize this was exactly the misguided idea behind conversion therapy that never worked and just caused trauma to gay people?

2. You do realize that most people have a “lifetime of treatment as a medical patient” as you describe it? Have you been on birth control? If so, you’ve basically been on what my kid is on. So where is the outcry over teens and older women on birth control or using HRT for perimenopause and menopause? And while we’re at it, better take away anti depressants, heart medication, diabetes, ADHD, etc….all the medications that people take throughout their lives.

Your SON - a male - is on female birth control hormones.

If I really have to explain to you what’s wrong with that you are beyond help.

Nothing? Not going to own up?

Just admit you think trans people are…what? Gross? Immoral? Crazy?

This person was the only honest one willing to say the quiet part out loud.

At least they’re willing to be honest and not pretend they actually care.

I am not OP

And I care far more than people- especially parents- who “affirm” this mental illness in their own kids. Or worse, actually set their kids up for it.

Care about whom? Obviously not trans people.

Oh, wait. You know people better than they know themselves. You care so much for the poor trans people who are so confused and crazy? Hmmm? Or because they are being misled by the evil trans activists?

Both. People with mental illness deserve treatment that helps them get better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re objecting to the idea that the parents of these kids are validating their kids feelings and you think they should be putting kids in conversion therapy instead.

You feel the best way to handle your child’s transgenderism is by validating your child’s feelings, is that correct? Your born male child said he felt like he was really a girl so you followed the course of action to validate her feelings that she was really a girl. You helped her medically transition to a girl. Correct?

Is your child neurodiverse or has any mental health issues?

What if your child had come to you instead and said “I hate my body because I’m too fat” even though they were skinny? What if they really, truly believed they were fat even though they weren’t? Would you have affirmed their feelings and help them lose more weight? What if being dangerously skinny made them happier?

What if your child came to you and said “I hate myself because I’m such a loser”? Would you affirm that they were a loser? Your child really, truly felt they were a loser. How far would you go in affirming their feelings?

I’m going to assume you wouldn’t affirm your child’s feelings in the above cases. Why not? Why is it okay to affirm your child’s feelings they are wrong gender but not other negative feelings they have?

Not the pp you replied to. Why are you calling feeling like you're the other gender a negative feeling? To me, it isn't.

Precisely. Men are free to wear makeup and listen show-tunes. Women and girls are free to shave their heads and enjoy wood-working.

What’s negative is confusing stereotypes and biological sex and misleading a child that they “transition” their sex, which is not humanly possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I didn’t read it because I’m not obsessed about what other families choose to do with their medical decisions—especially ones approved by the American Association of Pediatrics.

Did you know that vaccines cause autism? I read it somewhere. It must be true.

So just because a family approves of a certain treatment for gender dysphoria, we all have to shut up, regardless of the harm it may cause? What about faith healing parents who deny their children medical care because it's "against their religion"? Should they be excused?

If it's not YOUR kid, shut up. There are a lot of things I disagree with other parents about. It's not your business and ask yourself why you're so obsessed with this instead of the thousand other medical decisions parents make for and with their children.

Children are taken from homes and sent into foster care for less. The bottom line is that children cannot consent to life altering surgery and drugs.

And there you have it.

They want to make it illegal to support transgender kids.

.

What exactly does “support” trans kids mean to you?

To me, it means helping them sort through their gender issues and helping them align with their thinking with their physical body, thus avoiding a lifetime of treatment as a medical patient

1. You do realize this was exactly the misguided idea behind conversion therapy that never worked and just caused trauma to gay people?

2. You do realize that most people have a “lifetime of treatment as a medical patient” as you describe it? Have you been on birth control? If so, you’ve basically been on what my kid is on. So where is the outcry over teens and older women on birth control or using HRT for perimenopause and menopause? And while we’re at it, better take away anti depressants, heart medication, diabetes, ADHD, etc….all the medications that people take throughout their lives.

Your SON - a male - is on female birth control hormones.

If I really have to explain to you what’s wrong with that you are beyond help.

No one GAF what the bigots think.

And there you have it, ladies and gentlemen.

Name calling and hostility is all they have left when confronted with the truth.

The misgendering post should have been removed since it violates the rules. But I think it’s a good reminder of who is posting all of this anti-trans crap.

Bigots.

It’s not anti-trans to point out the science is far from “settled.”

The misgendering post demonstrates who is really posting here.

Man = adult human male
Woman = adult human female

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I didn’t read it because I’m not obsessed about what other families choose to do with their medical decisions—especially ones approved by the American Association of Pediatrics.

Did you know that vaccines cause autism? I read it somewhere. It must be true.

So just because a family approves of a certain treatment for gender dysphoria, we all have to shut up, regardless of the harm it may cause? What about faith healing parents who deny their children medical care because it's "against their religion"? Should they be excused?

If it's not YOUR kid, shut up. There are a lot of things I disagree with other parents about. It's not your business and ask yourself why you're so obsessed with this instead of the thousand other medical decisions parents make for and with their children.

Children are taken from homes and sent into foster care for less. The bottom line is that children cannot consent to life altering surgery and drugs.

And there you have it.

They want to make it illegal to support transgender kids.

.

What exactly does “support” trans kids mean to you?

To me, it means helping them sort through their gender issues and helping them align with their thinking with their physical body, thus avoiding a lifetime of treatment as a medical patient

1. You do realize this was exactly the misguided idea behind conversion therapy that never worked and just caused trauma to gay people?

2. You do realize that most people have a “lifetime of treatment as a medical patient” as you describe it? Have you been on birth control? If so, you’ve basically been on what my kid is on. So where is the outcry over teens and older women on birth control or using HRT for perimenopause and menopause? And while we’re at it, better take away anti depressants, heart medication, diabetes, ADHD, etc….all the medications that people take throughout their lives.

Your SON - a male - is on female birth control hormones.

If I really have to explain to you what’s wrong with that you are beyond help.

I understand you don’t like trans people. You think they’re crazy? What…confused? Degenerate? Who knows. Violating god’s norms?

At least you’re honest about it—unlike the OP? Or maybe you ARE the OP and you just waited to say what you really think.

I’m an atheist.

I don’t think trans people are crazy. They usually fall into three categories 1) gender dysphoric young people 2) confused children and 3) sexual fetishists.

I know and like people who are types 1 and 2. I don’t care for type 3, who coincidentally (or not) are most of the people running the trans movement in western societies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I didn’t read it because I’m not obsessed about what other families choose to do with their medical decisions—especially ones approved by the American Association of Pediatrics.

Did you know that vaccines cause autism? I read it somewhere. It must be true.

So just because a family approves of a certain treatment for gender dysphoria, we all have to shut up, regardless of the harm it may cause? What about faith healing parents who deny their children medical care because it's "against their religion"? Should they be excused?

If it's not YOUR kid, shut up. There are a lot of things I disagree with other parents about. It's not your business and ask yourself why you're so obsessed with this instead of the thousand other medical decisions parents make for and with their children.

Children are taken from homes and sent into foster care for less. The bottom line is that children cannot consent to life altering surgery and drugs.

And there you have it.

They want to make it illegal to support transgender kids.

.

What exactly does “support” trans kids mean to you?

To me, it means helping them sort through their gender issues and helping them align with their thinking with their physical body, thus avoiding a lifetime of treatment as a medical patient

1. You do realize this was exactly the misguided idea behind conversion therapy that never worked and just caused trauma to gay people?

2. You do realize that most people have a “lifetime of treatment as a medical patient” as you describe it? Have you been on birth control? If so, you’ve basically been on what my kid is on. So where is the outcry over teens and older women on birth control or using HRT for perimenopause and menopause? And while we’re at it, better take away anti depressants, heart medication, diabetes, ADHD, etc….all the medications that people take throughout their lives.

Your SON - a male - is on female birth control hormones.

If I really have to explain to you what’s wrong with that you are beyond help.

Nothing? Not going to own up?

Just admit you think trans people are…what? Gross? Immoral? Crazy?

This person was the only honest one willing to say the quiet part out loud.

At least they’re willing to be honest and not pretend they actually care.

I am not OP

And I care far more than people- especially parents- who “affirm” this mental illness in their own kids. Or worse, actually set their kids up for it.

Care about whom? Obviously not trans people.

Oh, wait. You know people better than they know themselves. You care so much for the poor trans people who are so confused and crazy? Hmmm? Or because they are being misled by the evil trans activists?

I don’t care about trans adults any more or less than any other adults. If people want to have elective cosmetic surgeries, they can do so.

I do care about children being brainwashed by nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I didn’t read it because I’m not obsessed about what other families choose to do with their medical decisions—especially ones approved by the American Association of Pediatrics.

Did you know that vaccines cause autism? I read it somewhere. It must be true.

So just because a family approves of a certain treatment for gender dysphoria, we all have to shut up, regardless of the harm it may cause? What about faith healing parents who deny their children medical care because it's "against their religion"? Should they be excused?

If it's not YOUR kid, shut up. There are a lot of things I disagree with other parents about. It's not your business and ask yourself why you're so obsessed with this instead of the thousand other medical decisions parents make for and with their children.

Children are taken from homes and sent into foster care for less. The bottom line is that children cannot consent to life altering surgery and drugs.

I have an older teen trans kid who was miserable and transitioned several years ago and is now thriving and happy, going to an excellent college. We banked sperm should she ever want kids, which she says she does not. There has been no surgery and I don't know if there will ever be. She came out after most of puberty, so we didn't have to make any decisions about blockers, but looking back I think it would have been the right thing to do since she does have a few male characteristics, such as a deeper voice, which she has had to train to try and sound more feminine. If she had not gone through any male puberty she would be indistinguishable from cis female peers. However, because she was not THAT far through puberty she almost always passes, which will make life a lot easier for her. She was not a "child" when she came out, but she was under 18. Children are not being given HRT OR surgeries. Older teens are given HRT and sometimes (pretty rarely) surgeries, obviously with parents' permissions.

The people who are obsessed with this are the same people who will then call trans women predators who are trying to "invade women's spaces." And "take over" women's sports. They want it both ways--to deny trans people the ability to pass and then harass and vilify them when they don't. There is no winning. They want trans people to suffer. There is no legitimate reason for concern about what a tiny minority of people regarding these medical decisions unless you are the parent of a trans kid.

These arguments are never in good faith. They never come from a place of genuine concern. You can see right from the beginning of this thread the OP just wanted to talk about how bad it is to give minors HRT and used this study as a way to do it. Honestly, it's weird. It's a weird obsession.

I don't have to read that study because this is my life and my kid's life. It wasn't an easy decision to make and it wasn't made lightly. I feel angry when I see people trying to act like this matters to them when they have no skin in the game. It would be like me telling a bunch of people whose kids have an eating disorder that everything they're doing is wrong when my kid has never had an eating disorder. But I don't feel defensive--I feel annoyed and angry and just wish people would live their own lives and stay. out of our family's choices. It doesn't feel very different to me than people trying to take away abortion rights and get into people's reproductive freedoms.

We made the right decision for our kid. Thankfully we live in a state that has not just used this as a culture war issue to gin up votes.

Again this is about silencing alternative viewpoints, not your kid transitioning post-puberty.

That’s ridiculous. Of course it’s about my child. “Alternative viewpoints” are the exact things that are leading to anti trans laws around the county. “Alternative viewpoints” have real repercussions for real people and real families. I’m so sorry that your desire to talk about things that don’t actually impact you at all is being inconvenienced by my desire for my child to have civil rights.

No child medically transitions PRE puberty. That’s what blockers are used for. They delay puberty.

What civil rights are people trying to remove for your child?

Seriously? Do you know how many anti trans bills were passed just last year? It’s literally illegal for my kid to pee in the right bathroom in Florida. She looks just like an average teenage girl and they want her in the men’s bathroom. Look for yourself if you want to pretend you actually care.

https://www.advocate.com/politics/anti-trans-laws-by-state

Average teenage girls don’t have pen!53s, unlike your child.

But you know it’s just because you CARE so much. You’re just such CARING individuals. The poor children! We must think of the children.

Not because you’re bigots. Right?

I don’t want this to get lost. This is what you align yourself with. Don’t forget it.

Thanks for bumping that up. I must have missed it earlier.

PP is 100% accurate.

Transgender haters aren’t generally obsessing over other types of medical treatments for teens, fighting for gender equality in sports, or advocating for prison reform. Only when a transgender person is involved is there some big problem for them.

I have been fighting for women and girls in sports for my entire adult life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I didn’t read it because I’m not obsessed about what other families choose to do with their medical decisions—especially ones approved by the American Association of Pediatrics.

Did you know that vaccines cause autism? I read it somewhere. It must be true.

So just because a family approves of a certain treatment for gender dysphoria, we all have to shut up, regardless of the harm it may cause? What about faith healing parents who deny their children medical care because it's "against their religion"? Should they be excused?

If it's not YOUR kid, shut up. There are a lot of things I disagree with other parents about. It's not your business and ask yourself why you're so obsessed with this instead of the thousand other medical decisions parents make for and with their children.

Children are taken from homes and sent into foster care for less. The bottom line is that children cannot consent to life altering surgery and drugs.

I have an older teen trans kid who was miserable and transitioned several years ago and is now thriving and happy, going to an excellent college. We banked sperm should she ever want kids, which she says she does not. There has been no surgery and I don't know if there will ever be. She came out after most of puberty, so we didn't have to make any decisions about blockers, but looking back I think it would have been the right thing to do since she does have a few male characteristics, such as a deeper voice, which she has had to train to try and sound more feminine. If she had not gone through any male puberty she would be indistinguishable from cis female peers. However, because she was not THAT far through puberty she almost always passes, which will make life a lot easier for her. She was not a "child" when she came out, but she was under 18. Children are not being given HRT OR surgeries. Older teens are given HRT and sometimes (pretty rarely) surgeries, obviously with parents' permissions.

The people who are obsessed with this are the same people who will then call trans women predators who are trying to "invade women's spaces." And "take over" women's sports. They want it both ways--to deny trans people the ability to pass and then harass and vilify them when they don't. There is no winning. They want trans people to suffer. There is no legitimate reason for concern about what a tiny minority of people regarding these medical decisions unless you are the parent of a trans kid.

These arguments are never in good faith. They never come from a place of genuine concern. You can see right from the beginning of this thread the OP just wanted to talk about how bad it is to give minors HRT and used this study as a way to do it. Honestly, it's weird. It's a weird obsession.

I don't have to read that study because this is my life and my kid's life. It wasn't an easy decision to make and it wasn't made lightly. I feel angry when I see people trying to act like this matters to them when they have no skin in the game. It would be like me telling a bunch of people whose kids have an eating disorder that everything they're doing is wrong when my kid has never had an eating disorder. But I don't feel defensive--I feel annoyed and angry and just wish people would live their own lives and stay. out of our family's choices. It doesn't feel very different to me than people trying to take away abortion rights and get into people's reproductive freedoms.

We made the right decision for our kid. Thankfully we live in a state that has not just used this as a culture war issue to gin up votes.

Again this is about silencing alternative viewpoints, not your kid transitioning post-puberty.

That’s ridiculous. Of course it’s about my child. “Alternative viewpoints” are the exact things that are leading to anti trans laws around the county. “Alternative viewpoints” have real repercussions for real people and real families. I’m so sorry that your desire to talk about things that don’t actually impact you at all is being inconvenienced by my desire for my child to have civil rights.

No child medically transitions PRE puberty. That’s what blockers are used for. They delay puberty.

What civil rights are people trying to remove for your child?

Seriously? Do you know how many anti trans bills were passed just last year? It’s literally illegal for my kid to pee in the right bathroom in Florida. She looks just like an average teenage girl and they want her in the men’s bathroom. Look for yourself if you want to pretend you actually care.

https://www.advocate.com/politics/anti-trans-laws-by-state

Average teenage girls don’t have pen!53s, unlike your child.

But you know it’s just because you CARE so much. You’re just such CARING individuals. The poor children! We must think of the children.

Not because you’re bigots. Right?

I don’t want this to get lost. This is what you align yourself with. Don’t forget it.

Forget what? That men and boys have male sexual parts and women have female sexual parts?

Weird how pointing out basic biology is considered bigotry.

[Anonymous]

I am the PP who pointed out the mountain of data analysis flaws in that ludicrous letter that Andrew Wakefield signed. For context, I haven’t posted since then. I am not OP.

I appreciate the insight from the mom of the trans daughter. PP, I appreciate you taking the time. Your post was thoughtful and I think your perspective is valuable. But why do you assume that people who have dug into the data and come away with a starkly different opinion than you are doing that without a personal stake, for entirely transphobic reasons? I find that a little insulting and reductive, to be honest, as though if you love a child struggling with gender dysphoria you must ignore the gaping chasm of reliable data and fully embrace the affirmative model of care, no questions asked, because not being “transphobic” is more important than having hard discussions about medical treatment.

The truth is that I came to this specifically because a child I’ve known nearly his whole life suddenly started expressing gender dysphoria, after having been diagnosed with severe depression and an eating disorder following serious bullying at school. He is not some anonymous number for me. His parents did what good parents were told to do when a child expresses gender dysphoria: they affirmed and took him (at that point, socially her) to a gender clinic. And that’s where things turned nightmarish. He and his parents experienced significant pressure to continue down a medical pathway to transition, largely ignoring the confounding and severe mental health issues as well as the bullying. The parents were essentially threatened with the suicide of their child (told the dead son/live daughter line multiple times), and it was made clear that if they did not go along for the ride, that ride would continue without them. That’s where I came into this, because my background is data and the mom wanted to discuss the available data because they felt so pressured.

Of course, as we all know now thanks to the Cass report, not only is the science not remotely settled, it barely qualifies as science. I went through a good number of the studies cited by WPATH and I was horrified. The lack of rigor was immediately apparent. I was honestly super confused; I had, up to that point, assumed that there was significant evidentiary support. I had (foolishly) trusted the medical system. But I could not avoid the truth before my eyes.

That child did not transition and is now doing well. The family remains close. I do not want to share more because this is not my story.

But the experience of this child is as important as that of your own trans child, PP. Your desire to protect your child is as strong as the desire of this child’s parents to protect him. And this unquestioning model did not serve them at all, in fact it was extremely destructive. Your desire to support your own child can’t come at the expense of other children. That is as wrong as the care bans are. You can’t shut down all discussion because the medical pathway worked for your daughter; if that is in fact the best path for some children, there needs to be evidence to support that path. I am deeply aware that the discussion must be painful for you, but not having the discussion is as painful to other families. For years, “no discussion” has prevailed as a model. It is time for other voices to be heard.