Did Christian homophobia come from a mistranslation of the Bible?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know how anyone could worship a god who created a subclass of people who loved in a certain way and then told them they were not allowed to love in that way or else they would go to hell. What kind of sicko mind would come up with such torture? To create some humans a certain way and then tell them they must deny themselves a crucial part of their humanity for their entire lives? Disgusting if it were so.

Luckily the god I worship would never be so cruel.

No human is a subclass.

Have you ever lied? Stolen anything? Done anything that you knew was wrong, but did it anyway? I have. And it was sin. God didn’t create us to throw our hands up and say “oh well. Guess I will do whatever I want.” We know when we sin, we die like to admit it. It makes is human to want to sin, as we all are sinful, but with God’s grace and strength we recognize our misdeeds/sins and try to turn away from them and do better.

I don’t think denying the urge to sin is denying my humanity. If we didn’t deny ourselves, what would we be? Slaves to emotion and greed and anger.

If a married person sees someone and says they love that person and sleeps with them, yes they did wrong. They should deny themselves and be faithful ti their spouse. If they can’t do that they should not have gotten married.

You’re comparing harming someone through stealing and lying to love between two people? This is why people leave religion.

And it also sounds like you must be asexual because you seem to imply you’d be able to repress your sexuality easily if you were told to.

NP
You are talking about love? Just calling it love doesn’t make it morally right.
How about we allow and celebrate love between adults and minor children?
How about we allow and celebrate love between humans and animals.
That’s love right? Not hurting anyone.

Don’t hide behind love to justify your sins.

Animals and children can't consent. Why do you compare a consenting adult relationship with animal and child rape? How do two adult men or women in a relationship affect you at all?

They can’t consent because we said so and made it our laws.
Children could also rise up and complain about these laws being unfair, insisting that they are mature enough to consent.

That won’t change anything because We believe that even though the child claims to be in love with an adult, we won’t condone these types of relationships because they are immoral.

Btw, I’m surprised you said children can’t consent to sex, but you and your lgbtq friends think these same children can consent to gender affirming surgery without parental consent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know how anyone could worship a god who created a subclass of people who loved in a certain way and then told them they were not allowed to love in that way or else they would go to hell. What kind of sicko mind would come up with such torture? To create some humans a certain way and then tell them they must deny themselves a crucial part of their humanity for their entire lives? Disgusting if it were so.

Luckily the god I worship would never be so cruel.

No human is a subclass.

Have you ever lied? Stolen anything? Done anything that you knew was wrong, but did it anyway? I have. And it was sin. God didn’t create us to throw our hands up and say “oh well. Guess I will do whatever I want.” We know when we sin, we die like to admit it. It makes is human to want to sin, as we all are sinful, but with God’s grace and strength we recognize our misdeeds/sins and try to turn away from them and do better.

I don’t think denying the urge to sin is denying my humanity. If we didn’t deny ourselves, what would we be? Slaves to emotion and greed and anger.

If a married person sees someone and says they love that person and sleeps with them, yes they did wrong. They should deny themselves and be faithful ti their spouse. If they can’t do that they should not have gotten married.

You’re comparing harming someone through stealing and lying to love between two people? This is why people leave religion.

And it also sounds like you must be asexual because you seem to imply you’d be able to repress your sexuality easily if you were told to.

NP
You are talking about love? Just calling it love doesn’t make it morally right.
How about we allow and celebrate love between adults and minor children?
How about we allow and celebrate love between humans and animals.
That’s love right? Not hurting anyone.

Don’t hide behind love to justify your sins.

You are comparing homosexuality to child rape and … beastiality?

Really?

Oh and BTW child rape does cause harm!

Not comparing them. Just following your “no boundaries” rule about sexual relationships as long as they are based on love.

Nobody talked about child rape here btw.
If a minor loves an adult and want to have sex with them, we should celebrate it because it’s love? Who are you to say that the child should not love?

You see how this has nothing to do with love? It’s about immoral acts. We know what they are and we set boundaries.

It’s not immoral for 2 consenting adults to have sex.

What if they are married to other people?

What if one of them has a spouse sick with cancer?

What if one of them have an std or sti they are not disclosing to their consenting partner and unknowing spouse?

Jesus never said don’t molest children. Do we think He was silent on the matter because He was ok with child molestation?

Jesus never said don’t get high- is He ok with drug use/abuse?

Jesus never said don’t drive drunk, does that mean drunk driving is ok?

Jesus never said don’t go into a school and shoot students and teachers, does that mean it’s ok?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know how anyone could worship a god who created a subclass of people who loved in a certain way and then told them they were not allowed to love in that way or else they would go to hell. What kind of sicko mind would come up with such torture? To create some humans a certain way and then tell them they must deny themselves a crucial part of their humanity for their entire lives? Disgusting if it were so.

Luckily the god I worship would never be so cruel.

No human is a subclass.

Have you ever lied? Stolen anything? Done anything that you knew was wrong, but did it anyway? I have. And it was sin. God didn’t create us to throw our hands up and say “oh well. Guess I will do whatever I want.” We know when we sin, we die like to admit it. It makes is human to want to sin, as we all are sinful, but with God’s grace and strength we recognize our misdeeds/sins and try to turn away from them and do better.

I don’t think denying the urge to sin is denying my humanity. If we didn’t deny ourselves, what would we be? Slaves to emotion and greed and anger.

If a married person sees someone and says they love that person and sleeps with them, yes they did wrong. They should deny themselves and be faithful ti their spouse. If they can’t do that they should not have gotten married.

You’re comparing harming someone through stealing and lying to love between two people? This is why people leave religion.

And it also sounds like you must be asexual because you seem to imply you’d be able to repress your sexuality easily if you were told to.

NP
You are talking about love? Just calling it love doesn’t make it morally right.
How about we allow and celebrate love between adults and minor children?
How about we allow and celebrate love between humans and animals.
That’s love right? Not hurting anyone.

Don’t hide behind love to justify your sins.

Animals and children can't consent. Why do you compare a consenting adult relationship with animal and child rape? How do two adult men or women in a relationship affect you at all?

Mutual adult consent is necessary but not sufficient for moral sexuality. I agree that comparing homosexuality to bestiality or CSA is not helpful. But just because it's consensual does not make it morally right. You just snuck that premise in there.

If one doesnt think it's morally right, they don't have to engage.

What I believe is morally right is different than what you believe is morally right. Some people dont believe it's morally right to eat animals. I wholeheartedly support their right to not eat animals. I don't support those people trying to push their beliefs onto me or others. Same with this.

Perhaps you could make this case if you and your gay partner live alone on an island. But none of us do. Our moral decisions have knock on effects. Sometimes those indirect effects are more serious than the direct ones. Beyond those measurable indirect effects, society is also morally injured when it is forced to tolerate immorality.

So how do two men in a relationship affect you? Is literally tolerating their existence that much of a burden to you?

Not their existence. That is not at issue.

But their open, flagrant immorality, yes. That is a burden to society.

You still havent answered how two men or two women in a consensual adult relationship affects you at all.

A major problem with open immorality (including fornication, adultery, no-fault divorce, etc.) is that it chips away at the social element of the restraint that each of us should be applying to his sexual appetites. Every time someone in your (or my) friend group commits adultery, it reduces the social stigma of such a thing, and increases our own likelihood of slipping into the same vice, which you (and I) had previously been resisting. We see this with the ongoing increase in LGBTQ identification, with a nearly 10-fold increase in population incidence from a generation ago when scientists said there was a small minority who can't help it. Turned out not to be true.

Uhh just because I have gay friends doesnt mean I'm going to turn gay. In fact, I'm glad that "social stigma" is reducing. I'm happy that people feel they can be themselves. You'd apparently rather they stay in the closet?

You are lacking some fundamental critical thinking skills.

Having LGBTQ acquaintances and friends does indeed increase the likelihood that someone will later identify as LGBTQ. "In the closet" is a term of art that I won't stipulate. But as to whether I think a person should resist immoral urges (adultery, homosexuality, whatever)--yes, obviously.

Lol!
So seeing happy gay couples is too hard for you because you may want to turn gay too?
Keep it in your pants!

I'm glad we've finally gotten to the bottom of why christians hate gays.

They are secretly gay, and seeing them be out and happy is too hard for them to "tolerate".

I don't think it is useful to the discussion to throw around phrases like "christians hate gays" -- it certainly is not a universal feeling in any denomination.

Perhaps not universal, but a key tenet.

Hate is not a tenet of any religion.

Christianity disagrees

No, you are not a Christian and you don’t speak for Christianity or all Christians.

Quit pretending you are the spokesperson for Christianity.

Islam kills gay people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know how anyone could worship a god who created a subclass of people who loved in a certain way and then told them they were not allowed to love in that way or else they would go to hell. What kind of sicko mind would come up with such torture? To create some humans a certain way and then tell them they must deny themselves a crucial part of their humanity for their entire lives? Disgusting if it were so.

Luckily the god I worship would never be so cruel.

No human is a subclass.

Have you ever lied? Stolen anything? Done anything that you knew was wrong, but did it anyway? I have. And it was sin. God didn’t create us to throw our hands up and say “oh well. Guess I will do whatever I want.” We know when we sin, we die like to admit it. It makes is human to want to sin, as we all are sinful, but with God’s grace and strength we recognize our misdeeds/sins and try to turn away from them and do better.

I don’t think denying the urge to sin is denying my humanity. If we didn’t deny ourselves, what would we be? Slaves to emotion and greed and anger.

If a married person sees someone and says they love that person and sleeps with them, yes they did wrong. They should deny themselves and be faithful ti their spouse. If they can’t do that they should not have gotten married.

You’re comparing harming someone through stealing and lying to love between two people? This is why people leave religion.

And it also sounds like you must be asexual because you seem to imply you’d be able to repress your sexuality easily if you were told to.

NP
You are talking about love? Just calling it love doesn’t make it morally right.
How about we allow and celebrate love between adults and minor children?
How about we allow and celebrate love between humans and animals.
That’s love right? Not hurting anyone.

Don’t hide behind love to justify your sins.

You are comparing homosexuality to child rape and … beastiality?

Really?

Oh and BTW child rape does cause harm!

Not comparing them. Just following your “no boundaries” rule about sexual relationships as long as they are based on love.

Nobody talked about child rape here btw.
If a minor loves an adult and want to have sex with them, we should celebrate it because it’s love? Who are you to say that the child should not love?

You see how this has nothing to do with love? It’s about immoral acts. We know what they are and we set boundaries.

It’s not immoral for 2 consenting adults to have sex.

What if they are married to other people?

What if one of them has a spouse sick with cancer?

What if one of them have an std or sti they are not disclosing to their consenting partner and unknowing spouse?

Jesus never said don’t molest children. Do we think He was silent on the matter because He was ok with child molestation?

Jesus never said don’t get high- is He ok with drug use/abuse?

Jesus never said don’t drive drunk, does that mean drunk driving is ok?

Jesus never said don’t go into a school and shoot students and teachers, does that mean it’s ok?

Two consenting adults in a loving, committed relationship having sex with each other is not comparable to stealing or lying. It’s not immoral.

It’s no different than you having sex with your spouse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know how anyone could worship a god who created a subclass of people who loved in a certain way and then told them they were not allowed to love in that way or else they would go to hell. What kind of sicko mind would come up with such torture? To create some humans a certain way and then tell them they must deny themselves a crucial part of their humanity for their entire lives? Disgusting if it were so.

Luckily the god I worship would never be so cruel.

No human is a subclass.

Have you ever lied? Stolen anything? Done anything that you knew was wrong, but did it anyway? I have. And it was sin. God didn’t create us to throw our hands up and say “oh well. Guess I will do whatever I want.” We know when we sin, we die like to admit it. It makes is human to want to sin, as we all are sinful, but with God’s grace and strength we recognize our misdeeds/sins and try to turn away from them and do better.

I don’t think denying the urge to sin is denying my humanity. If we didn’t deny ourselves, what would we be? Slaves to emotion and greed and anger.

If a married person sees someone and says they love that person and sleeps with them, yes they did wrong. They should deny themselves and be faithful ti their spouse. If they can’t do that they should not have gotten married.

You’re comparing harming someone through stealing and lying to love between two people? This is why people leave religion.

And it also sounds like you must be asexual because you seem to imply you’d be able to repress your sexuality easily if you were told to.

NP
You are talking about love? Just calling it love doesn’t make it morally right.
How about we allow and celebrate love between adults and minor children?
How about we allow and celebrate love between humans and animals.
That’s love right? Not hurting anyone.

Don’t hide behind love to justify your sins.

Animals and children can't consent. Why do you compare a consenting adult relationship with animal and child rape? How do two adult men or women in a relationship affect you at all?

They can’t consent because we said so and made it our laws.
Children could also rise up and complain about these laws being unfair, insisting that they are mature enough to consent.

That won’t change anything because We believe that even though the child claims to be in love with an adult, we won’t condone these types of relationships because they are immoral.

Btw, I’m surprised you said children can’t consent to sex, but you and your lgbtq friends think these same children can consent to gender affirming surgery without parental consent.

What about a 12 year who was impregnated without consent? Is that immoral?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know how anyone could worship a god who created a subclass of people who loved in a certain way and then told them they were not allowed to love in that way or else they would go to hell. What kind of sicko mind would come up with such torture? To create some humans a certain way and then tell them they must deny themselves a crucial part of their humanity for their entire lives? Disgusting if it were so.

Luckily the god I worship would never be so cruel.

No human is a subclass.

Have you ever lied? Stolen anything? Done anything that you knew was wrong, but did it anyway? I have. And it was sin. God didn’t create us to throw our hands up and say “oh well. Guess I will do whatever I want.” We know when we sin, we die like to admit it. It makes is human to want to sin, as we all are sinful, but with God’s grace and strength we recognize our misdeeds/sins and try to turn away from them and do better.

I don’t think denying the urge to sin is denying my humanity. If we didn’t deny ourselves, what would we be? Slaves to emotion and greed and anger.

If a married person sees someone and says they love that person and sleeps with them, yes they did wrong. They should deny themselves and be faithful ti their spouse. If they can’t do that they should not have gotten married.

You’re comparing harming someone through stealing and lying to love between two people? This is why people leave religion.

And it also sounds like you must be asexual because you seem to imply you’d be able to repress your sexuality easily if you were told to.

NP
You are talking about love? Just calling it love doesn’t make it morally right.
How about we allow and celebrate love between adults and minor children?
How about we allow and celebrate love between humans and animals.
That’s love right? Not hurting anyone.

Don’t hide behind love to justify your sins.

Animals and children can't consent. Why do you compare a consenting adult relationship with animal and child rape? How do two adult men or women in a relationship affect you at all?

They can’t consent because we said so and made it our laws.
Children could also rise up and complain about these laws being unfair, insisting that they are mature enough to consent.

That won’t change anything because We believe that even though the child claims to be in love with an adult, we won’t condone these types of relationships because they are immoral.

Btw, I’m surprised you said children can’t consent to sex, but you and your lgbtq friends think these same children can consent to gender affirming surgery without parental consent.

Children don’t get surgery.

Get off alt right websites and new programs your brain has atrophied

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know how anyone could worship a god who created a subclass of people who loved in a certain way and then told them they were not allowed to love in that way or else they would go to hell. What kind of sicko mind would come up with such torture? To create some humans a certain way and then tell them they must deny themselves a crucial part of their humanity for their entire lives? Disgusting if it were so.

Luckily the god I worship would never be so cruel.

No human is a subclass.

Have you ever lied? Stolen anything? Done anything that you knew was wrong, but did it anyway? I have. And it was sin. God didn’t create us to throw our hands up and say “oh well. Guess I will do whatever I want.” We know when we sin, we die like to admit it. It makes is human to want to sin, as we all are sinful, but with God’s grace and strength we recognize our misdeeds/sins and try to turn away from them and do better.

I don’t think denying the urge to sin is denying my humanity. If we didn’t deny ourselves, what would we be? Slaves to emotion and greed and anger.

If a married person sees someone and says they love that person and sleeps with them, yes they did wrong. They should deny themselves and be faithful ti their spouse. If they can’t do that they should not have gotten married.

You’re comparing harming someone through stealing and lying to love between two people? This is why people leave religion.

And it also sounds like you must be asexual because you seem to imply you’d be able to repress your sexuality easily if you were told to.

NP
You are talking about love? Just calling it love doesn’t make it morally right.
How about we allow and celebrate love between adults and minor children?
How about we allow and celebrate love between humans and animals.
That’s love right? Not hurting anyone.

Don’t hide behind love to justify your sins.

You are comparing homosexuality to child rape and … beastiality?

Really?

Oh and BTW child rape does cause harm!

Not comparing them. Just following your “no boundaries” rule about sexual relationships as long as they are based on love.

Nobody talked about child rape here btw.
If a minor loves an adult and want to have sex with them, we should celebrate it because it’s love? Who are you to say that the child should not love?

You see how this has nothing to do with love? It’s about immoral acts. We know what they are and we set boundaries.

It’s not immoral for 2 consenting adults to have sex.

What if they are married to other people?

What if one of them has a spouse sick with cancer?

What if one of them have an std or sti they are not disclosing to their consenting partner and unknowing spouse?

Jesus never said don’t molest children. Do we think He was silent on the matter because He was ok with child molestation?

Jesus never said don’t get high- is He ok with drug use/abuse?

Jesus never said don’t drive drunk, does that mean drunk driving is ok?

Jesus never said don’t go into a school and shoot students and teachers, does that mean it’s ok?

Clearly he was okay with drugs he changed water to wine,

Having sex with others while married is not immoral if your spouse consents. Lying is immoral not the sex.

Again with the STI it’s not the sex that is the problem it’s the lying and giving of diseases like not wearing a mask with COVID.

The reality is that Christian’s have been used by politicians and created a homophobic trope in their religions to get their vote. Homophobia is a sin. There used you. Pope John Paul created homophobia in Catholicism is Vatican 2.

It’s man made not Jesus made.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know how anyone could worship a god who created a subclass of people who loved in a certain way and then told them they were not allowed to love in that way or else they would go to hell. What kind of sicko mind would come up with such torture? To create some humans a certain way and then tell them they must deny themselves a crucial part of their humanity for their entire lives? Disgusting if it were so.

Luckily the god I worship would never be so cruel.

No human is a subclass.

Have you ever lied? Stolen anything? Done anything that you knew was wrong, but did it anyway? I have. And it was sin. God didn’t create us to throw our hands up and say “oh well. Guess I will do whatever I want.” We know when we sin, we die like to admit it. It makes is human to want to sin, as we all are sinful, but with God’s grace and strength we recognize our misdeeds/sins and try to turn away from them and do better.

I don’t think denying the urge to sin is denying my humanity. If we didn’t deny ourselves, what would we be? Slaves to emotion and greed and anger.

If a married person sees someone and says they love that person and sleeps with them, yes they did wrong. They should deny themselves and be faithful ti their spouse. If they can’t do that they should not have gotten married.

You’re comparing harming someone through stealing and lying to love between two people? This is why people leave religion.

And it also sounds like you must be asexual because you seem to imply you’d be able to repress your sexuality easily if you were told to.

NP
You are talking about love? Just calling it love doesn’t make it morally right.
How about we allow and celebrate love between adults and minor children?
How about we allow and celebrate love between humans and animals.
That’s love right? Not hurting anyone.

Don’t hide behind love to justify your sins.

Animals and children can't consent. Why do you compare a consenting adult relationship with animal and child rape? How do two adult men or women in a relationship affect you at all?

They can’t consent because we said so and made it our laws.
Children could also rise up and complain about these laws being unfair, insisting that they are mature enough to consent.

That won’t change anything because We believe that even though the child claims to be in love with an adult, we won’t condone these types of relationships because they are immoral.

Btw, I’m surprised you said children can’t consent to sex, but you and your lgbtq friends think these same children can consent to gender affirming surgery without parental consent.

This isn’t happening, but you keep showing those true Christian colors. So you hate gays and trans folk, but are totally cool with child rape. What a fcked up religious point of view.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know how anyone could worship a god who created a subclass of people who loved in a certain way and then told them they were not allowed to love in that way or else they would go to hell. What kind of sicko mind would come up with such torture? To create some humans a certain way and then tell them they must deny themselves a crucial part of their humanity for their entire lives? Disgusting if it were so.

Luckily the god I worship would never be so cruel.

No human is a subclass.

Have you ever lied? Stolen anything? Done anything that you knew was wrong, but did it anyway? I have. And it was sin. God didn’t create us to throw our hands up and say “oh well. Guess I will do whatever I want.” We know when we sin, we die like to admit it. It makes is human to want to sin, as we all are sinful, but with God’s grace and strength we recognize our misdeeds/sins and try to turn away from them and do better.

I don’t think denying the urge to sin is denying my humanity. If we didn’t deny ourselves, what would we be? Slaves to emotion and greed and anger.

If a married person sees someone and says they love that person and sleeps with them, yes they did wrong. They should deny themselves and be faithful ti their spouse. If they can’t do that they should not have gotten married.

You’re comparing harming someone through stealing and lying to love between two people? This is why people leave religion.

And it also sounds like you must be asexual because you seem to imply you’d be able to repress your sexuality easily if you were told to.

NP
You are talking about love? Just calling it love doesn’t make it morally right.
How about we allow and celebrate love between adults and minor children?
How about we allow and celebrate love between humans and animals.
That’s love right? Not hurting anyone.

Don’t hide behind love to justify your sins.

You are comparing homosexuality to child rape and … beastiality?

Really?

Oh and BTW child rape does cause harm!

Not comparing them. Just following your “no boundaries” rule about sexual relationships as long as they are based on love.

Nobody talked about child rape here btw.
If a minor loves an adult and want to have sex with them, we should celebrate it because it’s love? Who are you to say that the child should not love?

You see how this has nothing to do with love? It’s about immoral acts. We know what they are and we set boundaries.

It’s not immoral for 2 consenting adults to have sex.

What if they are married to other people?

What if one of them has a spouse sick with cancer?

What if one of them have an std or sti they are not disclosing to their consenting partner and unknowing spouse?

Jesus never said don’t molest children. Do we think He was silent on the matter because He was ok with child molestation?

Jesus never said don’t get high- is He ok with drug use/abuse?

Jesus never said don’t drive drunk, does that mean drunk driving is ok?

Jesus never said don’t go into a school and shoot students and teachers, does that mean it’s ok?

Since child marriage was common in that day, isn’t it likely that jesus was pro child rape?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know how anyone could worship a god who created a subclass of people who loved in a certain way and then told them they were not allowed to love in that way or else they would go to hell. What kind of sicko mind would come up with such torture? To create some humans a certain way and then tell them they must deny themselves a crucial part of their humanity for their entire lives? Disgusting if it were so.

Luckily the god I worship would never be so cruel.

No human is a subclass.

Have you ever lied? Stolen anything? Done anything that you knew was wrong, but did it anyway? I have. And it was sin. God didn’t create us to throw our hands up and say “oh well. Guess I will do whatever I want.” We know when we sin, we die like to admit it. It makes is human to want to sin, as we all are sinful, but with God’s grace and strength we recognize our misdeeds/sins and try to turn away from them and do better.

I don’t think denying the urge to sin is denying my humanity. If we didn’t deny ourselves, what would we be? Slaves to emotion and greed and anger.

If a married person sees someone and says they love that person and sleeps with them, yes they did wrong. They should deny themselves and be faithful ti their spouse. If they can’t do that they should not have gotten married.

You’re comparing harming someone through stealing and lying to love between two people? This is why people leave religion.

And it also sounds like you must be asexual because you seem to imply you’d be able to repress your sexuality easily if you were told to.

NP
You are talking about love? Just calling it love doesn’t make it morally right.
How about we allow and celebrate love between adults and minor children?
How about we allow and celebrate love between humans and animals.
That’s love right? Not hurting anyone.

Don’t hide behind love to justify your sins.

Animals and children can't consent. Why do you compare a consenting adult relationship with animal and child rape? How do two adult men or women in a relationship affect you at all?

Mutual adult consent is necessary but not sufficient for moral sexuality. I agree that comparing homosexuality to bestiality or CSA is not helpful. But just because it's consensual does not make it morally right. You just snuck that premise in there.

If one doesnt think it's morally right, they don't have to engage.

What I believe is morally right is different than what you believe is morally right. Some people dont believe it's morally right to eat animals. I wholeheartedly support their right to not eat animals. I don't support those people trying to push their beliefs onto me or others. Same with this.

Perhaps you could make this case if you and your gay partner live alone on an island. But none of us do. Our moral decisions have knock on effects. Sometimes those indirect effects are more serious than the direct ones. Beyond those measurable indirect effects, society is also morally injured when it is forced to tolerate immorality.

So how do two men in a relationship affect you? Is literally tolerating their existence that much of a burden to you?

Not their existence. That is not at issue.

But their open, flagrant immorality, yes. That is a burden to society.

You still havent answered how two men or two women in a consensual adult relationship affects you at all.

A major problem with open immorality (including fornication, adultery, no-fault divorce, etc.) is that it chips away at the social element of the restraint that each of us should be applying to his sexual appetites. Every time someone in your (or my) friend group commits adultery, it reduces the social stigma of such a thing, and increases our own likelihood of slipping into the same vice, which you (and I) had previously been resisting. We see this with the ongoing increase in LGBTQ identification, with a nearly 10-fold increase in population incidence from a generation ago when scientists said there was a small minority who can't help it. Turned out not to be true.

Uhh just because I have gay friends doesnt mean I'm going to turn gay. In fact, I'm glad that "social stigma" is reducing. I'm happy that people feel they can be themselves. You'd apparently rather they stay in the closet?

You are lacking some fundamental critical thinking skills.

Having LGBTQ acquaintances and friends does indeed increase the likelihood that someone will later identify as LGBTQ. "In the closet" is a term of art that I won't stipulate. But as to whether I think a person should resist immoral urges (adultery, homosexuality, whatever)--yes, obviously.

Lol!
So seeing happy gay couples is too hard for you because you may want to turn gay too?
Keep it in your pants!

I'm glad we've finally gotten to the bottom of why christians hate gays.

They are secretly gay, and seeing them be out and happy is too hard for them to "tolerate".

I don't think it is useful to the discussion to throw around phrases like "christians hate gays" -- it certainly is not a universal feeling in any denomination.

Perhaps not universal, but a key tenet.

Hate is not a tenet of any religion.

Christianity disagrees

No, you are not a Christian and you don’t speak for Christianity or all Christians.

Quit pretending you are the spokesperson for Christianity.

Islam kills gay people.

Christians have killed gay people. And you know what they say? Their religion/god/jesus told them it was a sin.

Weird, isn’t that what you also say????

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That was a weak argument. Clearly she's grasping based on her own life.

I say this as someone who does believe that the Bible should be looked at from a cultural and historical lens, rather than at face value.

OP - maybe that is so but am waiting to see the documentary to see how well the case is argued.

There is a lot of other academic work to support more tolerance for homosexuality.

Yes cultural and historical context is essential for interpreting scriptures.

I do think the level of conservative contempt for homosexuality is misguided and unhelpful.

PP here. I don't disagree. Jesus was about love, not hate.

But, this person is reaching.

The reason why God did not tolerate homosexuality has to do with the pagans who practiced it. Everything in the OT is about how God's chosen people need to set themselves apart from the Pagan culture. The practice of homosexuality is one such aspect.

Having stated that: a sin is a sin, and Jesus talked more about greed than sexual sin, yet we have so many so-called Christians who care more about money than anything else. Jesus certainly never told people to stone sinners, whether figuratively or literally. Quite the opposite, in fact.

But as to this person's argument, it's reaching.

Interesting way of phrasing. How do you know what God tolerate or not tolerate something? Do people just speak for God like that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know how anyone could worship a god who created a subclass of people who loved in a certain way and then told them they were not allowed to love in that way or else they would go to hell. What kind of sicko mind would come up with such torture? To create some humans a certain way and then tell them they must deny themselves a crucial part of their humanity for their entire lives? Disgusting if it were so.

Luckily the god I worship would never be so cruel.

No human is a subclass.

Have you ever lied? Stolen anything? Done anything that you knew was wrong, but did it anyway? I have. And it was sin. God didn’t create us to throw our hands up and say “oh well. Guess I will do whatever I want.” We know when we sin, we die like to admit it. It makes is human to want to sin, as we all are sinful, but with God’s grace and strength we recognize our misdeeds/sins and try to turn away from them and do better.

I don’t think denying the urge to sin is denying my humanity. If we didn’t deny ourselves, what would we be? Slaves to emotion and greed and anger.

If a married person sees someone and says they love that person and sleeps with them, yes they did wrong. They should deny themselves and be faithful ti their spouse. If they can’t do that they should not have gotten married.

You’re comparing harming someone through stealing and lying to love between two people? This is why people leave religion.

And it also sounds like you must be asexual because you seem to imply you’d be able to repress your sexuality easily if you were told to.

NP
You are talking about love? Just calling it love doesn’t make it morally right.
How about we allow and celebrate love between adults and minor children?
How about we allow and celebrate love between humans and animals.
That’s love right? Not hurting anyone.

Don’t hide behind love to justify your sins.

You are comparing homosexuality to child rape and … beastiality?

Really?

Oh and BTW child rape does cause harm!

Not comparing them. Just following your “no boundaries” rule about sexual relationships as long as they are based on love.

Nobody talked about child rape here btw.
If a minor loves an adult and want to have sex with them, we should celebrate it because it’s love? Who are you to say that the child should not love?

You see how this has nothing to do with love? It’s about immoral acts. We know what they are and we set boundaries.

It’s not immoral for 2 consenting adults to have sex.

What if they are married to other people?

What if one of them has a spouse sick with cancer?

What if one of them have an std or sti they are not disclosing to their consenting partner and unknowing spouse?

Jesus never said don’t molest children. Do we think He was silent on the matter because He was ok with child molestation?

Jesus never said don’t get high- is He ok with drug use/abuse?

Jesus never said don’t drive drunk, does that mean drunk driving is ok?

Jesus never said don’t go into a school and shoot students and teachers, does that mean it’s ok?

Clearly he was okay with drugs he changed water to wine,

Having sex with others while married is not immoral if your spouse consents. Lying is immoral not the sex.

Again with the STI it’s not the sex that is the problem it’s the lying and giving of diseases like not wearing a mask with COVID.

The reality is that Christian’s have been used by politicians and created a homophobic trope in their religions to get their vote. Homophobia is a sin. There used you. Pope John Paul created homophobia in Catholicism is Vatican 2.

It’s man made not Jesus made.

As a Christian, I am all for welcoming gays fully into our church (they are often my favorite leaders).

However I disagree that infidelity is OK. Jesus was very explicit about that (unlike remaining silent on homosexuality). In fact he held us to a higher standard and advised that even lusting after others apart from spouse was wrong.he appeared to advocate for loyalty from the heart as well as in action.

[Anonymous]

More Christians should stop relying on their clergy to tell them what the Bible says. They should relying on scholars to under stand what was written, why it was written and the context. Only then can discussions be had about how a Christian should live.

I highly recommend Dan McClellan and Data over Dogma. He's on YouTube, Patreon and TikTok. He's and amazing scholar and an excellent teacher.

Clarifications on same sex intercourse
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8WNsPBC/

Genesis 19 is not a condemnation of homosexuality
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8WNcDXU/

The Bible is not "univocal"
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8WNheN6/

The Inerrancy of the Bible
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8WNTBwf/

Was Mary Magdalena a sex worker?
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8WN4rq5/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, just want to say thanks for starting this conversation!

-- another Christian who's all for acceptance

+1
Christian who is accepting and loves daughter and wife unconditionally. I'm sick of family throwing these verses up without even trying to look into other interpretations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know how anyone could worship a god who created a subclass of people who loved in a certain way and then told them they were not allowed to love in that way or else they would go to hell. What kind of sicko mind would come up with such torture? To create some humans a certain way and then tell them they must deny themselves a crucial part of their humanity for their entire lives? Disgusting if it were so.

Luckily the god I worship would never be so cruel.

No human is a subclass.

Have you ever lied? Stolen anything? Done anything that you knew was wrong, but did it anyway? I have. And it was sin. God didn’t create us to throw our hands up and say “oh well. Guess I will do whatever I want.” We know when we sin, we die like to admit it. It makes is human to want to sin, as we all are sinful, but with God’s grace and strength we recognize our misdeeds/sins and try to turn away from them and do better.

I don’t think denying the urge to sin is denying my humanity. If we didn’t deny ourselves, what would we be? Slaves to emotion and greed and anger.

If a married person sees someone and says they love that person and sleeps with them, yes they did wrong. They should deny themselves and be faithful ti their spouse. If they can’t do that they should not have gotten married.

You’re comparing harming someone through stealing and lying to love between two people? This is why people leave religion.

And it also sounds like you must be asexual because you seem to imply you’d be able to repress your sexuality easily if you were told to.

NP
You are talking about love? Just calling it love doesn’t make it morally right.
How about we allow and celebrate love between adults and minor children?
How about we allow and celebrate love between humans and animals.
That’s love right? Not hurting anyone.

Don’t hide behind love to justify your sins.

You are comparing homosexuality to child rape and … beastiality?

Really?

Oh and BTW child rape does cause harm!

Not comparing them. Just following your “no boundaries” rule about sexual relationships as long as they are based on love.

Nobody talked about child rape here btw.
If a minor loves an adult and want to have sex with them, we should celebrate it because it’s love? Who are you to say that the child should not love?

You see how this has nothing to do with love? It’s about immoral acts. We know what they are and we set boundaries.

It’s not immoral for 2 consenting adults to have sex.

What if they are married to other people?

What if one of them has a spouse sick with cancer?

What if one of them have an std or sti they are not disclosing to their consenting partner and unknowing spouse?

Jesus never said don’t molest children. Do we think He was silent on the matter because He was ok with child molestation?

Jesus never said don’t get high- is He ok with drug use/abuse?

Jesus never said don’t drive drunk, does that mean drunk driving is ok?

Jesus never said don’t go into a school and shoot students and teachers, does that mean it’s ok?

Clearly he was okay with drugs he changed water to wine,

Having sex with others while married is not immoral if your spouse consents. Lying is immoral not the sex.

Again with the STI it’s not the sex that is the problem it’s the lying and giving of diseases like not wearing a mask with COVID.

The reality is that Christian’s have been used by politicians and created a homophobic trope in their religions to get their vote. Homophobia is a sin. There used you. Pope John Paul created homophobia in Catholicism is Vatican 2.

It’s man made not Jesus made.

As a Christian, I am all for welcoming gays fully into our church (they are often my favorite leaders).

However I disagree that infidelity is OK. Jesus was very explicit about that (unlike remaining silent on homosexuality). In fact he held us to a higher standard and advised that even lusting after others apart from spouse was wrong.he appeared to advocate for loyalty from the heart as well as in action.

It’s not infidelity if you agree to it.

Actually Jesus believed having sex at all was a weakness but if you had to have it it should be while married to one person forever.

So… no premarital sex, not solo sex, no sex after divorce,…. Come on man you know that’s insane.

Are we going to refuse to marry a couple who are not virgins because the Bible said they can only marry their 1st?

No, because that’s insane, just like not letting divorced people marry and gay people marry.