Virginia parents do not have many good in-state options

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP here again.

Not sure why so many people were triggered but let me try to clarify:

(1) I didn’t say Virginia doesn’t have many options. I said it doesn’t have many *good* options. How to define a “good” school is subjective. I personally think UVa, W&M, UMCP, and VT are good or great. JMU, GMU, and UMBC are just OK.

(2) An option is not really an option if you cannot choose it. UVa and W&M are extremely selective. VT, a land grant school, became very selective for popular majors.

And VT prefers the OOS kids, which makes things worse. Look at the acceptance rate:

VT in-state: 50%
VT OOS: 63%

This is same for JMU. Very easy admission for OOS kids.

JMU in-state: 71%
JMU OOS: 87%

So I think it’s very possible that many good students who would get in a big state school such as Michigan State or Pitt/PSU didn’t get in VT only because they live in Northern Virginia. (Also kids who would get in a second tier public school such as Temple may not get in JMU)

I am sure some people already knew that the college options in Virginia are not that great any more. Let’s just accept the reality.

Four good or great public options in the state is pretty impressive really. Certainly better than Maryland, NYS or Mass.

Number of public colleges in USNWR Top 100:
CA - 9
FL - 4
NJ - 4
NY - 3
VA - 3
PA - 3

Now do it per capita because on state on your list is a lot smaller than the rest

Yes, per capita is a better way to look at it - I agree. I've expanded to top 150 with a minimum of two schools per state. Per capita is in the parentheses - lower is better. This is based on 2020 census numbers, so I have not adjusted for population under age 35. That may be a better way to examine it.

Number of public colleges/universities in USNWR Top 150:
CA - 11 (1 school per 3.59M residents)
VA - 6 (1.44M)
NY - 6 (3.37M)
FL - 6 (3.59M)
TX - 4 (7.29M)
NJ - 4 (2.32M)
PA - 3 (4.33M)
OH - 3 (3.93M)
IA - 2 (1.60M)
OR - 2 (2.12M)
AZ - 2 (3.58M)
IN - 2 (3.39M)
MD - 2 (3.09M)
MI - 2 (5.04M)
GA - 2 (5.36M)
NC - 2 (5.22M)
IL - 2 (6.41M)
CO - 2 (2.89M)
SC - 2 (2.56M)

But what about the size of school?

Undergraduate Enrollment

W&M: 6800
UVA: 17,500
VT: 30,400

Total: 54,700

Arizona State: 65,500
Arizona: 40,400

Michigan: 33,700
MSU: 39,200

IU: 35,600
Purdue: 38,000

uh, Calfornia hasnt' been 3.9 million residents since I grew up there a LONG LONG time ago. California has 10 x that number of residents. 38.9 million
California is the most populated U.S. state, with an estimated population of 38.9 million as of 2023. It has people from a wide variety of ethnic, racial, national, and religious backgrounds.

Didn't take much arithmetic in elementary school, did you? 3.59 million per school means they divided 38.9 by 11.

uh, can you respond in a way that actually elucidates the problem? Insults don't help. Cal is almost 50M in population.

No it isn't. California has 39 million residents according to the Census or roughly 3.59 times 11. The original numbers are right.

The original numbers are right but useless. Who cares how many schools there are per resident? What matters is how many in-state seats there are per resident.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Richmond is private, not public.

But there are lots more....VCU, CNU, ODU, Radford, VMI, UMW. Not sure what more OP needs.

Some are very selective, some not selective at all and some in between.

+1. VA has some of the better state schools around. What the OP wants, I suspect is more schools at the UVA/W&M/VaTech "ranking". They could not imagine sending their kid to GMU, JMU, VCU, ODU, Radford, Mary Washington, etc.

MD has UMD and then it drops to UMBC (266) and then Towson (459)

UVA is 55 and VaTEch is 106 (These are college simply rankings, so you merge all LA, SLAC, regional universities into one ranking). JMU is 258, GMU is 244, VCU 455.

It's a no brainer---VA has much better options for in state than MD.

Just use USNWR rankings, like everyone else. No one uses "college simply."
DP

USNWR does NOT rank all universities in one, single category. So while not perfect, college simply is a good method for rankings if you want to compare.

NP. USNWR does have a ranking that is across all categories. If you look into the details of the rankings, there is a number called “U.S. News Overall Score.” It is a score out of 100. In the rankings section, you need to click on “See All Rankings” to get all the details, which include this number. You need to keep scrolling down to see it.

- GMU parent

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:With VT now being in the top 50 in the US news, expect it will get only worse.

This year’s USNWR rankings are not based on academics and are irrelevant to many posters on DCUM.

Only because the second tier private schools that they’ve been sending the kids to have finally been revealed for what they are, which is second-tier.

No USNWR changed the methodology and it's now largely non-academic.

Removing class size and high school ranking (if it's done) and portion of professors with terminal degrees IMO is important (HS ranking not as much so---but that's still there with GPA, etc). Class size is very telling of the quality of academics offered at a school. NO way you can convince me that a typical class with 30-40 students is not a much better learning experience than one with 500+ students (given the same quality of professor---obviously a bad prof is bad in all instances). It's simply a very different learning environment and no expert would try to convince you that the 500+ environment is better.

Adding in Pell Grant graduation rates really does not demonstrate how one school is better than the other, given that outside factors for those students are often the reason they don't graduate on time, not what the university does or doesn't do.

All it means is that State universities jumped in the rankings and private, less than 15K undergrad universities lost placement. That is mostly an indicator of class size and terminal degree. DOn't know about you but I prefer my kids to sit in classes with 25-50 kids where they can actively learn during a lecture and be engaged with a professor who is an expert in their field, not the TA who is a first year graduate student.

DP. Please tell us which universities in VA (since that's the subject of this thread) have 500+ class sizes? We'll wait.

We'll also wait for you to read the post this was responding to.

This was in response to post that stated: "Only because the second tier private schools that they’ve been sending the kids to have finally been revealed for what they are, which is second-tier." So it was in response to why large public universities jumped in rankings over smaller private schools just this year with all the methodology changes.

Um, yes. I am aware of the post she was responding to. That has nothing to do with her absurd claim about "500+" class sizes, which is what I was addressing. Still waiting for her (or him) to come back and admit she totally made that up. There is no school, at least in VA, that has anything near 500+ classes.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:VA is definitely in the top 3 as far as public education at the college level. Its second tier schools JMU, GMU, etc, are better than a number of state flagships.

Berkeley, UCLA, and Michigan are clearly the top three. UVA is number 5 now, below UNC. Try to keep up.

Try to read. The state of Virginia is in the top 3 states in the US with respect to public education options. Schools like JMU and GMU are better options than Ole Miss or Mizzou.

Is JMU really better than Mizzou?

In many rankings they are basically the same. However, Mizzou is their state's Flagship. JMU is largely considered the #4/5 school in VA.

JMU and Mizzou are tied in the rankings, regardless of "flagship" status:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/james-madison-university-3721
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/university-of-missouri-2516

Exactly, so VA should be glad that they have 3 "better schools". Many states do not.

Fact is per capita, VA has some of the best options for public college education.

+1
Virginians are very fortunate.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With VT now being in the top 50 in the US news, expect it will get only worse.

This year’s USNWR rankings are not based on academics and are irrelevant to many posters on DCUM.

Only because the second tier private schools that they’ve been sending the kids to have finally been revealed for what they are, which is second-tier.

No USNWR changed the methodology and it's now largely non-academic.

Removing class size and high school ranking (if it's done) and portion of professors with terminal degrees IMO is important (HS ranking not as much so---but that's still there with GPA, etc). Class size is very telling of the quality of academics offered at a school. NO way you can convince me that a typical class with 30-40 students is not a much better learning experience than one with 500+ students (given the same quality of professor---obviously a bad prof is bad in all instances). It's simply a very different learning environment and no expert would try to convince you that the 500+ environment is better.

Adding in Pell Grant graduation rates really does not demonstrate how one school is better than the other, given that outside factors for those students are often the reason they don't graduate on time, not what the university does or doesn't do.

All it means is that State universities jumped in the rankings and private, less than 15K undergrad universities lost placement. That is mostly an indicator of class size and terminal degree. DOn't know about you but I prefer my kids to sit in classes with 25-50 kids where they can actively learn during a lecture and be engaged with a professor who is an expert in their field, not the TA who is a first year graduate student.

DP. Please tell us which universities in VA (since that's the subject of this thread) have 500+ class sizes? We'll wait.

We'll also wait for you to read the post this was responding to.

This was in response to post that stated: "Only because the second tier private schools that they’ve been sending the kids to have finally been revealed for what they are, which is second-tier." So it was in response to why large public universities jumped in rankings over smaller private schools just this year with all the methodology changes.

It doesn’t matter what post it is responding to. What matters is that it’s flat wrong.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With VT now being in the top 50 in the US news, expect it will get only worse.

This year’s USNWR rankings are not based on academics and are irrelevant to many posters on DCUM.

Only because the second tier private schools that they’ve been sending the kids to have finally been revealed for what they are, which is second-tier.

No USNWR changed the methodology and it's now largely non-academic.

Removing class size and high school ranking (if it's done) and portion of professors with terminal degrees IMO is important (HS ranking not as much so---but that's still there with GPA, etc). Class size is very telling of the quality of academics offered at a school. NO way you can convince me that a typical class with 30-40 students is not a much better learning experience than one with 500+ students (given the same quality of professor---obviously a bad prof is bad in all instances). It's simply a very different learning environment and no expert would try to convince you that the 500+ environment is better.

Adding in Pell Grant graduation rates really does not demonstrate how one school is better than the other, given that outside factors for those students are often the reason they don't graduate on time, not what the university does or doesn't do.

All it means is that State universities jumped in the rankings and private, less than 15K undergrad universities lost placement. That is mostly an indicator of class size and terminal degree. DOn't know about you but I prefer my kids to sit in classes with 25-50 kids where they can actively learn during a lecture and be engaged with a professor who is an expert in their field, not the TA who is a first year graduate student.

You sound like every other class in State U has 500+ students. Which they obvious don’t. Your argument is specious.

In my experience, fresh/soph year for STEM/CS/Eng majors, that is the case for the core sequences or at least 200-300+. And IMO, once you hit 100+, and then again at 200+, you are not in an environment that includes engagement during the lecture. So first 2 years 3 of your 4 courses are exactly like that. And the ones that aren't are not typically 25 students at a large state U, unless you are a Russian Lit major.

And at the smaller private Universities, my kids are/have been taught by actual professors for all their courses. It's the Profs who hold office hours (so do TAs who run discussions/help with the course, but the profs always have weekly hours as well). My kid can easily schedule a meeting with their advisor the same day or next day. In fact, they had an advisor in their major assigned before they arrived on campus freshman year, who helped with course selection for fall freshman year.

I think the above adds great value to your education. And while I do care that a University is making an effort to ensure low income kids graduate, I'm smart enough to recognize that ultimately that depends upon many factors outside the university's control. So it's not an important part of "college quality"

DP. You specifically said "500+" in your earlier post. So you admit, you were lying. My DC attends VT and has never, ever had a class larger than 100 (34% of classes have fewer than 20 students) and has never had a TA teaching the class. Student to faculty ratio is 17:1. Profs all hold office hours, and advisors are easy to schedule appointments with. Oh! And my kid ALSO had an advisor in their major assigned to them the summer before freshman year, just like yours! The same advisor has been with my DC each year.

Great that you're happy with your kids' smaller, private universities, but it doesn't seem like you know very much about the schools your kids DON'T attend. Maybe you should stop making assumptions and sweeping generalizations?

DP: Doubt your kid is a STEM major at VaTech

Find a class at Virginia Tech that has 500+ students, then get back to us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

"Only because the second tier private schools that they’ve been sending the kids to have finally been revealed for what they are, which is second-tier."

Why is it a bad thing if there are a number of second-tier schools in the state? Not every kid is one of these "high stats" kids. Kids in the second tier of test scores and gpa also need colleges to attend.

The poster above is referring to the expensive second-tier *private* schools, many of which aren't in VA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With VT now being in the top 50 in the US news, expect it will get only worse.

This year’s USNWR rankings are not based on academics and are irrelevant to many posters on DCUM.

Only because the second tier private schools that they’ve been sending the kids to have finally been revealed for what they are, which is second-tier.

No USNWR changed the methodology and it's now largely non-academic.

Removing class size and high school ranking (if it's done) and portion of professors with terminal degrees IMO is important (HS ranking not as much so---but that's still there with GPA, etc). Class size is very telling of the quality of academics offered at a school. NO way you can convince me that a typical class with 30-40 students is not a much better learning experience than one with 500+ students (given the same quality of professor---obviously a bad prof is bad in all instances). It's simply a very different learning environment and no expert would try to convince you that the 500+ environment is better.

Adding in Pell Grant graduation rates really does not demonstrate how one school is better than the other, given that outside factors for those students are often the reason they don't graduate on time, not what the university does or doesn't do.

All it means is that State universities jumped in the rankings and private, less than 15K undergrad universities lost placement. That is mostly an indicator of class size and terminal degree. DOn't know about you but I prefer my kids to sit in classes with 25-50 kids where they can actively learn during a lecture and be engaged with a professor who is an expert in their field, not the TA who is a first year graduate student.

DP. Please tell us which universities in VA (since that's the subject of this thread) have 500+ class sizes? We'll wait.

We'll also wait for you to read the post this was responding to.

This was in response to post that stated: "Only because the second tier private schools that they’ve been sending the kids to have finally been revealed for what they are, which is second-tier." So it was in response to why large public universities jumped in rankings over smaller private schools just this year with all the methodology changes.

It doesn’t matter what post it is responding to. What matters is that it’s flat wrong.

VA tech intro STEM classes are rather large. Check out Berkeley class sizes, and many of the UCs, as well as UIUC, UWashington, UWisconsin, and.....

In general, this is the case at many large state universities.

Meanwhile my two stem kids at T50 private schools have less than 100 in their intro STEM courses, most calculus/math classes are less than 50. It would also be this way at many other schools they considered/applied to.

DP. You keep nattering on about your two "stem kids at T50 private schools," when this thread is about Virginia in-state schools. And your false claim - AGAIN - that many large state universities have 500+ student classes is just absurd. Still waiting for you to cough up some actual schools that have that many students in one class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With VT now being in the top 50 in the US news, expect it will get only worse.

This year’s USNWR rankings are not based on academics and are irrelevant to many posters on DCUM.

Only because the second tier private schools that they’ve been sending the kids to have finally been revealed for what they are, which is second-tier.

No USNWR changed the methodology and it's now largely non-academic.

Removing class size and high school ranking (if it's done) and portion of professors with terminal degrees IMO is important (HS ranking not as much so---but that's still there with GPA, etc). Class size is very telling of the quality of academics offered at a school. NO way you can convince me that a typical class with 30-40 students is not a much better learning experience than one with 500+ students (given the same quality of professor---obviously a bad prof is bad in all instances). It's simply a very different learning environment and no expert would try to convince you that the 500+ environment is better.

Adding in Pell Grant graduation rates really does not demonstrate how one school is better than the other, given that outside factors for those students are often the reason they don't graduate on time, not what the university does or doesn't do.

All it means is that State universities jumped in the rankings and private, less than 15K undergrad universities lost placement. That is mostly an indicator of class size and terminal degree. DOn't know about you but I prefer my kids to sit in classes with 25-50 kids where they can actively learn during a lecture and be engaged with a professor who is an expert in their field, not the TA who is a first year graduate student.

DP. Please tell us which universities in VA (since that's the subject of this thread) have 500+ class sizes? We'll wait.

We'll also wait for you to read the post this was responding to.

This was in response to post that stated: "Only because the second tier private schools that they’ve been sending the kids to have finally been revealed for what they are, which is second-tier." So it was in response to why large public universities jumped in rankings over smaller private schools just this year with all the methodology changes.

It doesn’t matter what post it is responding to. What matters is that it’s flat wrong.

VA tech intro STEM classes are rather large. Check out Berkeley class sizes, and many of the UCs, as well as UIUC, UWashington, UWisconsin, and.....

In general, this is the case at many large state universities.

Meanwhile my two stem kids at T50 private schools have less than 100 in their intro STEM courses, most calculus/math classes are less than 50. It would also be this way at many other schools they considered/applied to.

So what. The STEM programs at the public schools that you just listed are still better than any “top 50” private.

Exactly. So sick of that poster and her incessant, off-topic posts.

[Anonymous]

We're from Fairfax and my kid chose UMD over VA Tech. He's having the time of his life there. More options for things to do and very easy access to DC and Baltimore.

[Anonymous]

You revived this thread from morgue oblivion just so you could twist the knife like that. Damn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We're from Fairfax and my kid chose UMD over VA Tech. He's having the time of his life there. More options for things to do and very easy access to DC and Baltimore.

But he lives in College Park lol

[Anonymous]

This is every state, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We're from Fairfax and my kid chose UMD over VA Tech. He's having the time of his life there. More options for things to do and very easy access to DC and Baltimore.

Access to DC and Baltimore? Well that’s two negatives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're from Fairfax and my kid chose UMD over VA Tech. He's having the time of his life there. More options for things to do and very easy access to DC and Baltimore.

Access to DC and Baltimore? Well that’s two negatives.

Oh my goodness, spiteful much? I'm sorry that I broke some unspoken rule that I can only like anything and everything Virginia.
Get over yourself. -Fairfax parent